List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[zephskinner26]

Bontempelli definitely wouldn't be my first choice (or second or third) but there is no point talking about "fit" if we see him clearly better than anybody else available. Last year we may have gone with the fit of Macrae over Wines only because of how closely they were rated but if we think MB is the best available, we have to take him.

At least nobody will be able to push this team around with some of these big fellas and even our little guys are goers (Clay, libba, dahl, hrovat). Should be exciting to watch this team in the finals, but we definitely still lack some polish and pace. Hoping for someone like Dwayne Wilson at pick 42 who only needs a few touches to break a game open. I think you need at least one "jetta-like burner" even if they are a bit of a one-trick pony

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Bontempelli definitely wouldn't be my first choice (or second or third) but there is no point talking about "fit" if we see him clearly better than anybody else available. Last year we may have gone with the fit of Macrae over Wines only because of how closely they were rated but if we think MB is the best available, we have to take him.

I'm in agreement over this and it's something I've said over and over again - if we are into Bontempelli because we perceive him as the best available then we should take him every day of the week. The difference is with this year compared to others is that, for starters, there is no clear across the board 'order'. The ratings people give to the top 10-15 are even more remarkably different to previous years. Secondly, Bontempelli is being ranked on where he might get to, not what he's shown. My view is that a more proven player who fills a need much more closely should be taken over a player who doesn't really fill a need who's ranked mostly on where we see him getting to.

If Bontempelli reaches his potential it's highly likely he'll be a better player than, say, Aish, in my opinion - however Aish will be better for our team and our structures and our results than Bontempelli will be imo.

 

[Zgope1]

I wouldn't have been a week ago but after all the follow ups i've done on MB i'm so happy we're taking him. All of his strength are genuine strengh, the one that's still getting the least air time is his ability as an inside mid. He's a genuine inside outside player with even more to his bow.

I usually go with an approach of box ticking with juniors, which means i like them to have a good champs. After watching him play (out of position) very very well against a divvy one team I became much less worried about that particular box and gave him at least a tick for having had a big game against a divvy 1 team.

At the start of the year i thought he was a Sam Gilbert type and that midfield was a pipe dream. Not only did the kid achieve it but he achieved it on the inside and out, turning into a clearance gun but also had plenty of spread and no doubt has good disposal.

I can see how we think he's the best option and am very excited about this kid. I did say to a friend a month ago that he's got the best upside in the draft but after having done some more work on him I'm far more confident he'll achieve it. Less speculative than some people think, the runs he has on the board are good enough for me: exquisite game in the champs, brilliant brilliant brilliant in the tac

 

[Dav1d]

All this talk could be for nothing if we do pull the trigger on Aish,

I don't care about if Bontempelli has been to our club multiple times, hell he could of even been a million
doesn't necessarily mean we will pick him

If we're sticking to our rule of best available still, I'm not sure how we pick him then

 

[Dav1d]

I can see how we think he's the best option and am very excited about this kid. I did say to a friend a month ago that he's got the best upside in the draft but after having done some more work on him I'm far more confident he'll achieve it. Less speculative than some people think, the runs he has on the board are good enough for me: exquisite game in the champs, brilliant brilliant brilliant in the tac

I trust you will be getting a Bontempelli badge to then? haha, watching him a bit last year; I thought he'd develop more into a Trent McKensie type from GC; really bothers me we couldn't see Billings/Scharenberg transition more into the midfield

Lets say St Kilda take KK/Scharenberg or Aish though; should we take Billings given he is the best available even though he hasn't shown much through the middle? hm

 

[timtamWB]

I'm going to go to sleep tonight, hopefully wake up and realise this is a bad dream.

Alternatively, ALL GLORY TO THE RECRUITING STAFF!!!

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

I trust you will be getting a Bontempelli badge to then? haha, watching him a bit last year; I thought he'd develop more into a Trent McKensie type from GC; really bothers me we couldn't see Billings/Scharenberg transition more into the midfield

Lets say St Kilda take KK/Scharenberg or Aish though; should we take Billings given he is the best available even though he hasn't shown much through the middle? hm

I firmly believe Billings is the one we really want. Its only cause its assumed Pelchen will take him there has been all of this MB talk. If he's there at four I think we'll take him.

 

[Tommycash]

I'm very excited about Bontempelli. I've a mate who's all over him and I just feel like he's something special.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Write up coming soon.

 

[Zgope1]

I trust you will be getting a Bontempelli badge to then? haha, watching him a bit last year; I thought he'd develop more into a Trent McKensie type from GC; really bothers me we couldn't see Billings/Scharenberg transition more into the midfield

Lets say St Kilda take KK/Scharenberg or Aish though; should we take Billings given he is the best available even though he hasn't shown much through the middle? hm

He's shown enough ability to go thru the midfield for mine (Billings). Knows how to work through stoppages and get the footy. He'd be a good pick up, bloody hell all of them would be.

Scharenburg and Bonts are good case studies though because they both had one year to show they could play midfield. One didn't and just played really well in his position and the other one not only did but was elite in the tac cup on the inside for the time that he was there. That's why i we're going for him.

And yes, i would love a Bonts badge.

 

[Dav1d]

Write up coming soon.

I hope no-where in it does it say, '....unlike Aish'
or something to that effect

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I hope no-where in it does it say, '....unlike Aish'
or something to that effect

Not yet.

 

[timtamWB]

I hope no-where in it does it say, '....unlike Aish'
or something to that effect

Bontempelli, unlike Aish, does not, unlike Aish, have the same composure, unlike Aish, when in traffic. Aish is elite in this regard and I seriously don't know why we could pass on AISH WHEN HE WOULD COMPLEMENT OUR MIDFIELD PERFECTLY I MEAN IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU JMAC!!!

*cough* Ahem...

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Bontempelli, unlike Aish, does not, unlike Aish, have the same composure, unlike Aish, when in traffic. Aish is elite in this regard and I seriously don't know why we could pass on AISH WHEN HE WOULD COMPLEMENT OUR MIDFIELD PERFECTLY I MEAN IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU JMAC!!!

*cough* Ahem...

I can assure you that that won't be in there as it's not even close to true.

As for the rest...

 

[timtamWB]

I can assure you that that won't be in there as it's not even close to true.

As for the rest...

It was meant to be ridiculous, I do know that Bontempelli is actually fairly composed But I'm keeping my eye on you Dan. And my eyes never close!

 

[The_Bulldogs_Bite]

Bontempelli, unlike Aish, does not, unlike Aish, have the same composure, unlike Aish, when in traffic. Aish is elite in this regard and I seriously don't know why we could pass on AISH WHEN HE WOULD COMPLEMENT OUR MIDFIELD PERFECTLY I MEAN IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU JMAC!!!

*cough* Ahem...

I can understand Aish (like any young player) will have his fans, but the love for Aish on this forum seems like group follow. How many of you have seen more than 5-10 minutes of footage? I'm not questioning you personally timtam, and despite the fact that I think yebiga (or whoever he is) posts crap a lot of the time, I agree with him on this topic. If Aish was so far and above the rest of the crop as is 'presented' in this forum, he would be pick 2. He isn't, and there are logical reasons why. Contested numbers that rival Cale Morton are absolutely a concern, he also has questions on his size, pace for an outside mid and lack of defensive game.

Bontemptelli's talent is obvious and I cannot understand why some posters refuse to acknowledge it. Just because a couple of "experts" on BF originally had him going at 10-20 (and Aish at 2) doesn't mean that's a true reflection of their abilities or indeed where they should fall on draft day. The package of Bontemptelli (size, agility, skill, versatility) is impressive so it's not difficult to see why he's potentially going to be drafted at #4.

Having said all that, I prefer Kelly (gone), Billings (gone) and Aish (lineball) in that order. I agree with Dan that in terms of runs on the board, Bontempelli is behind his top peers, but that's why recruiters are paid money - to project who will grow into the best player. Otherwise, Sheed would be ahead of all these kids.

I'll be happy and excited with whoever we elect to take. The top 7 (Boyd, Kelly, Billings, Aish, KK, Bontemptelli, Scharenberg) all look like being fantastic prospects and I can't see us going 'wrong' with any of them. As for who will be the best? Tough call, which is why I admire Collingwood/Hine for their work to secure two top ten selections.

 

[Zgope1]

I can understand Aish (like any young player) will have his fans, but the love for Aish on this forum seems like group follow. How many of you have seen more than 5-10 minutes of footage? I'm not questioning you personally timtam, and despite the fact that I think yebiga (or whoever he is) posts crap a lot of the time, I agree with him on this topic. If Aish was so far and above the rest of the crop as is 'presented' in this forum, he would be pick 2. He isn't, and there are logical reasons why. Contested numbers that rival Cale Morton are absolutely a concern, he also has questions on his size, pace for an outside mid and lack of defensive game.

Bontemptelli's talent is obvious and I cannot understand why some posters refuse to acknowledge it. Just because a couple of "experts" on BF originally had him going at 10-20 (and Aish at 2) doesn't mean that's a true reflection of their abilities or indeed where they should fall on draft day. The package of Bontemptelli (size, agility, skill, versatility) is impressive so it's not difficult to see why he's potentially going to be drafted at #4.

Having said all that, I prefer Kelly (gone), Billings (gone) and Aish (lineball) in that order. I agree with Dan that in terms of runs on the board, Bontempelli is behind his top peers, but that's why recruiters are paid money - to project who will grow into the best player. Otherwise, Sheed would be ahead of all these kids.

I'll be happy and excited with whoever we elect to take. The top 7 (Boyd, Kelly, Billings, Aish, KK, Bontemptelli, Scharenberg) all look like being fantastic prospects and I can't see us going 'wrong' with any of them. As for who will be the best? Tough call, which is why I admire Collingwood/Hine for their work to secure two top ten selections.

really well said. It's about who's GOING to be the best player and what the player's done needs to be enough for the staff to believe it. In this case it's absolutely understandable that we may take Bontempelli instead.

 

[timtamWB]

I can understand Aish (like any young player) will have his fans, but the love for Aish on this forum seems like group follow. How many of you have seen more than 5-10 minutes of footage? I'm not questioning you personally timtam, and despite the fact that I think yebiga (or whoever he is) posts crap a lot of the time, I agree with him on this topic. If Aish was so far and above the rest of the crop as is 'presented' in this forum, he would be pick 2. He isn't, and there are logical reasons why. Contested numbers that rival Cale Morton are absolutely a concern, he also has questions on his size, pace for an outside mid and lack of defensive game.

Bontemptelli's talent is obvious and I cannot understand why some posters refuse to acknowledge it. Just because a couple of "experts" on BF originally had him going at 10-20 (and Aish at 2) doesn't mean that's a true reflection of their abilities or indeed where they should fall on draft day. The package of Bontemptelli (size, agility, skill, versatility) is impressive so it's not difficult to see why he's potentially going to be drafted at #4.

Having said all that, I prefer Kelly (gone), Billings (gone) and Aish (lineball) in that order. I agree with Dan that in terms of runs on the board, Bontempelli is behind his top peers, but that's why recruiters are paid money - to project who will grow into the best player. Otherwise, Sheed would be ahead of all these kids.

I'll be happy and excited with whoever we elect to take. The top 7 (Boyd, Kelly, Billings, Aish, KK, Bontemptelli, Scharenberg) all look like being fantastic prospects and I can't see us going 'wrong' with any of them. As for who will be the best? Tough call, which is why I admire Collingwood/Hine for their work to secure two top ten selections.

I think you may have missed the sarcastic part of the post

I've watched a couple of his games, and a couple of Bontempelli's games. I think Dannnnn put it the best, Bontempelli is incredibly inconsistent from contest to contest, and that's my major gripe with him. I also don't buy into the "he's one of the younger players in his draft class, so he'll improve a lot" hype. I'm not saying that you've said that at all, but I've heard it a few times and that just makes NO sense.

I understand where you're coming from, but I have always had reservations about Bontempelli's ability to transfer his game to AFL level and still keep those abilities and be able to make an impact. With news coming out that he apparently is an extremely hard worker, those reservations have dimmed somewhat, but they're still fairly present. It's not so much that we're taking Bontempelli, it's that we're passing on Aish. He complements our midfield perfectly, has performed well against men in the SANFL.

I'm still perplexed as to why clubs have cooled on Aish, and I think Collingwood are smart enough to know he still should be rated top 3 in this draft, and so if they grab him they'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Dry Rot]

Anyone know what "tonight's developments" were re that tweet?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Good post The_Bulldogs_Bite. FWIW I've seen a lot more than 5-10 minutes footage but I absolutely understand where you're coming from. I'm not sure if it was directed at me but as you'll see in the write up I'm doing (if I can stop getting distracted for long enough to finish it) I 100% acknowledge Bontempelli's talent. I've said again and again that if he reaches his potential he could absolutely be the best of the draft. However his flaws go against what I feel is 'pick 4 worthy', which is why I'm skeptical on the selection (along with the aforementioned fact that other players around the mark will be more structurally important to us than him). Someone who favours runs on the board more than projections as I do are always going to rate a player like Bontempelli lower than his talent probably exemplifies - however, that's not denying the kid is good, that's just a difference in opinion on drafting philosophies.

 

[Zgope1]

So nobody thinks i've got my head in the sand about MB i'll list my weaknesses for him:
- He's pretty slow within a couple of steps
- not convinced he can play tall right now (mostly marks on midfielders)
- good, long kick, not elite just good
- although special by hand inside, his decision making kicking inside 50 could be better. Likes the long option a bit. Although we're not talking about Boyd style "could be better" you'd still feel good with it in his hands.

 

[The_Bulldogs_Bite]

I think you may have missed the sarcastic part of the post

I've watched a couple of his games, and a couple of Bontempelli's games. I think Dannnnn put it the best, Bontempelli is incredibly inconsistent from contest to contest, and that's my major gripe with him. I also don't buy into the "he's one of the younger players in his draft class, so he'll improve a lot" hype. I'm not saying that you've said that at all, but I've heard it a few times and that just makes NO sense.

I understand where you're coming from, but I have always had reservations about Bontempelli's ability to transfer his game to AFL level and still keep those abilities and be able to make an impact. With news coming out that he apparently is an extremely hard worker, those reservations have dimmed somewhat, but they're still fairly present. It's not so much that we're taking Bontempelli, it's that we're passing on Aish. He complements our midfield perfectly, has performed well against men in the SANFL.

I'm still perplexed as to why clubs have cooled on Aish, and I think Collingwood are smart enough to know he still should be rated top 3 in this draft, and so if they grab him they'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

I knew you were being sarcastic haha. I just quoted your post as it was the last I saw before deciding to make a post about it. I have read some genuine crap on this topic from other posters though, as if the sky were falling.

I think both Bontemptelli and Aish come with reservations on whether they can deliver at the top level. Bontemptelli due to inconsistencies, a possible lack of physicality and average burst speed. Aish due to size/strength and lack of contested game. That's why I see it as being so difficult to choose.

I actually don't think it's difficult to see why clubs have cooled on Aish, but I do prefer we take him as I think he can be taught to improve his defensive game, whilst his footy smarts/composure/skill make up for a lack of pace. Plenty of outside mids aren't great in contested situations (eg. Gaff, Jetta) and given our strength as a whole (tough, contested footy) I think it's the right time/decision to take Aish even with his concerns.

 

[Trent85]

Great article on Aish
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...aller-james-aish/story-fnii5yv5-1226761924720

Where Aish ends up on Thursday is up for debate but it's highly likely he'll go to St Kilda (Pick 3), Western Bulldogs (4) or Gold Coast (5).
"There is a lot of unknown about the whole process, hopefully you get to a club and then you just have to gain the respect like everyone says and that comes with the hard work of training and pre-season," Aish said.
"I'll aim to play as soon as I can but I guess you have to wait and see what happens."
It comes as no surprise to learn Aish has maintained his fitness since the SANFL season finished in preparation for his first AFL pre-season.
"The last month has been quite solid, even on this holiday (in Port Douglas) I've been getting up early and doing running, gym or swimming laps," he said.
"I'm trying to get in good shape to hopefully get to a club and hold my own."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...aller-james-aish/story-fnii5yv5-1226761924720

 

[Dry Rot]

What if GWS do something weird and take Bontemptelli at pick #2?

 

[LukasTheGreat]

Can we nickname him Boom? How's his kick?