List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[timtamWB]

The difference is the suns have the greatest midfielder to play the game, he won a couple of games off his own boot.

GWS will be very good, but it will take a while longer than the suns.

I'm still not convinced on GWS, I don't think they'll be very good, whereas I was still convinced the Suns would be great even at the end of last year. Cameron helps them a lot though, if their forward line develops as expected then we're all ****ed.

 

[Super Hans]

Prudden was from the bushrangers, he could of lived in NSW

 

[True Dog]

FWIW I'm still super keen on the Berg, however not as worried as some if we select MB.... Those writting him off as a project player are really clutching at straws (sorry), those who think the kid is not a natural footballer again (IMO) have no idea....He has many outstanding attributes including the abilty to mark the footy at it's highest point and at 194cm (or there abouts) is an amazing attribute for even a wanna be midfielder (can't see to many mids matching him in the air). I simply don't see an Everitt/Howard scenario happening here nor do I see a Tambling type career. For mine, JMAC and BMAC haven't put a foot wrong since they've had input in our recruting and don't expect it to start now.... Dalrymple will make the right call, just wait and see.

 

[Super Hans]

I'm still not convinced on GWS, I don't think they'll be very good, whereas I was still convinced the Suns would be great even at the end of last year. Cameron helps them a lot though, if their forward line develops as expected then we're all ******.

I'm pretty big on GWS.

Cameron speaks for himself, as does the potential of the rest of their forward line. I'm huge on Adam Treloar, I'd trade any pick for him, going to be a star.

 

[BRG93]

It's coincidence. I mean look at the guys we drafted, who would you take instead of them? If Boyd was South Australian, and somehow slipped to pick 4, then we would take him and run to the hills.

So...
Smith
Talia
Pearce
Dickson
Stringer
Hrovat
Macrae
Prudden
Hunter
Redpath
Greenwood
Jong
Austin
Goodes

Are all coincidently Victorian I get your point though

In all honesty I think it's a deliberate ploy that if possible we take the best Victorian Youngster so we don't have to worry about the home sickness issues

 

[Dry Rot]

I'm still on the Bonts. Want to see the BF panic

For utter meltdown, I'd like to see us pick McCarthy.

We'd still be arguing about in 10 years time.

 

[paul scholes]

Majority of them are offensive players.
They get coached and taught to run both ways, and we have the coaching to drum it in.
Wouldn't be any of these kids that don't have a weakness or two.

 

[timtamWB]

Guys as someone who has never seen the prospects play, I am enjoying the discussion. Just thought I would say one thing - I don't get, like or appreciate people saying, we should have faith in Dalrymple.

If and/or when Dalrymple builds a record like Hine or Geelong's recruiter, then I'll have faith and blindly follow. But at the moment, Dalrymple's record is an abject failure in recruiting Howard and Tutt, then being gifted two father sons, and then having Stringer and Macrae who are unproven, is at best ordinary.

So please carry on the discussion, I am enjoying it, but if I hear people suggesting Dalrymple is infallible or even remotely beyond ordinary and thus should be followed blindly, well - I'll spew up!

You obviously don't get the blind faith. You should trust in him blindly because we say so.

Our drafting history is littered with a lot of missed picks and mistakes. Let's exclude Dalrymple's first draft.

2010: After getting Wallis and Libba, he picked out Schofield, who looked good but was a mommy's boy and wanted to go home, then Skinner who was a failed project player, then Hill who showed promise but never got a game. But in the rookie draft he picked out Dahl and JJ. Did alright with the free picks he had, anything past 60 is a lottery, and nailed the rookie draft.

2011: Smith, Talia, Pearce, Dickson. Pearce kind of came from nowhere and he's showed some signs and a few at the club are very high on him, and the rest are best 22. Snagged Roberts in the PSD and got Campbell, Austin, Jong, Greenwood, Redpath in the rookie, so 50/50 in the rookie draft.

2012: Stringer, Macrae, Hrovat, Hunter, Prudden, Goodes. It doesn't get much better than that.

He's gone on an upwards trajectory, and for the first time in a while a lot of us trust the recruiting staff to make the right call, as they have for the past 2 years. And there's nothing showing that that's going to change.

 

[timtamWB]

So...
Smith
Talia
Pearce
Dickson
Stringer
Hrovat
Macrae
Prudden
Hunter
Redpath
Greenwood
Jong
Austin
Goodes

Are all coincidently Victorian I get your point though

In all honesty I think it's a deliberate ploy that if possible we take the best Victorian Youngster so we don't have to worry about the home sickness issues

Yes. They are. Also you forgot Campbell

I do know where you're coming from, but I think you're trying to find a conspiracy where there isn't one. Honestly, I wouldn't take another player from their respective drafts that we passed on to get those players, except for Marley Williams in the rookie draft in 2011. But if we take Bontempelli then I'll start to agree with you

 

[Super Hans]

Really want Merrett or Impy at 42. Hopefully there's a slider there like Membrey last year.

 

[AjsGuns]

The way i see it is there's Boyd and then there is 5-6 players all reasonably close together Billings, Aish, Kelly, McDonald (Yes F/S), Kolodjashnij and Scharenberg. Bontempelli is not one of those players yet he is who were most likely going to take at pick 4? based on "what he can be" Honestly we should take the best available and that is going to be the player left out of Billings, Kelly and Aish, you can make arguments for Scharenberg and even Kolodjashnij as well but Bontempelli is in the next rung of players along your Salem/Freeman/Sheed etc with more "potential".

Now I'm not a Bonts hater, i was talking him up mid season but pick 4 is probably going to be our highest pick for some time (think we will get pick 5-8 next year) and our climb should start in 2015, it is a pick we can't screw up if we want flag success sometime in the reasonably near future having too compete with teams like GC/GWS who have had more first rounders than we have had in the past 10 years.

Personally my top 10:
(Simply, ahead of the rest)
1. Boyd
-------------------------------
(These 6 are all very close IMO and these are the 6 the doggies should look at, well besides Mcdonald obviously! The good thing is 3 of these guys will be available at our pick, Its almost splitting hairs although I'd say Billings/Aish are slightly ahead of the pack imo but I'd be stoked with any of these guys)
2. Billings
3. Aish
4. Kelly - (i rate him lower than most, seems almost certain to be GWS bound at #2)
5. Scharenberg
6. Mcdonald (F/S)
7. Kolodjashnij
------------------------------
(Could have a bunch here including Salem/Freeman/McCarthy/Lennon, these are just my preference. IMO there is a big jump from 7 to 8.)
8. Bontempelli (I may come across as a Bonts hater however i was on him mid-season! I just don't think we should be using pick #4 on him, when we can get Aish or Billings. Bonts has the most potential of the draft to become a superstar imo, while he could be anything he could also become a complete flop, high risk/high reward pick. Now some will say if i rate him at #8 is using #4 really reaching? Well i would take him at #8 on potential i personally rate him around #10-12 (keep in mind 8-14 is pretty close imo). The question is will the Dogs reach and take him at #4 or will Collingwood get a bargain and secure the player with the most potential of the draft at #10?).
9. Acres (Can't see him going in the top 10, his probably going to go 11-15 and I'm probably rating him higher than most but his a gun, shame about his shoulder injuries his a bit like Bonts in the fact he has a high ceiling which appeals to so many clubs).
10. Sheed (complete opposite of Bonts, probably the most "sure thing" in the draft in that he will become a good player at worst, i reckon WCE will grab him at #11)

My pick for the Western Bulldogs at #4 (Assuming Boyd/Kelly are gone at #1/2): Aish/Billings, I'm a huge Billings fan however i think he will go at #3, so I'd go Aish. I just hope if we take Bonts its for all of the right reasons and not because his a "tall midfielder whos versatile and can play everywhere" hey it worked for freo it must be a good idea! I'm also a fan of Aish and he or Billings will be available at our pick. Aish for me is just a rolls royce, a pure footballer and simply the best midfielder in the draft available. He would compliment our other mids and be the perfect fit with his elite disposal, Libba extracting and Aish delivering! There is also alot of talk about the intangibles about how Bonts is a good leader and comes from good pedigree which makes me laugh, have we forgot were Aish has came from? everything I've read also suggests his a superb leader and future captain material.

 

[texdog]

For utter meltdown, I'd like to see us pick McCarthy.

We'd still be arguing about in 10 years time.

Imagine the outrage if we picked Crouch! can you just think of everyone saying we don't need another inside mid!


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[TempleKelvington]

Guys as someone who has never seen the prospects play, I am enjoying the discussion. Just thought I would say one thing - I don't get, like or appreciate people saying, we should have faith in Dalrymple.

If and/or when Dalrymple builds a record like Hine or Geelong's recruiter, then I'll have faith and blindly follow. But at the moment, Dalrymple's record is an abject failure in recruiting Howard and Tutt, then being gifted two father sons, and then having Stringer and Macrae who are unproven, is at best ordinary.

So please carry on the discussion, I am enjoying it, but if I hear people suggesting Dalrymple is infallible or even remotely beyond ordinary and thus should be followed blindly, well - I'll spew up!

I heard the other day that in the 1999 draft I think it was....the Cats spudded out on the first 3 or 4 picks in that draft except for Corey....it was later in the draft when they picked up Chapman, Bartel and so on. So that draft was the draft that set them up for the next 10 years....yet they basically stuffed the first selections. indeed they actually got their order wrong.

I think you'll find that in recent years we have picked up some good late picks....and rookies....JJ, Dahlhaus spring to mind. Every club has it's miss fires with picks.....in recent times Howard is the left field first rounder that looks shaky....Tutt was a pick 30 or something, you can't expect to get them all 100% in the 30's and beyond....I mean we did get Roughead and Jones in the 30's.

Not hear to back Dalrymple and call him a genius, but he's put togther the list we have coming through and it looks ok so far.....last year alone we got Stringer, Macrea, Hrovat, Hunter and Prudden.....not bad.

 

[VitalDread]

Sam Lloyd (Frankston, 23, 182cm, 82kg): an excitement package from top to toe: likes nothing better than submitting contenders for mark and goal of the year. Regularly succeeded on both counts. Kicked 38 goals from 17 games (and a century of goals for Deniliquin in 2010) in his first season swimming with the Dolphins.

always liked Lloyd from when i watched him play round one against casey
shame we aren't targeting him.
strong marker, tackler and kicker

 

[GrandBlue]

I completely agree that Dalrymple doesn't deserve blind faith. I'd also like to say that the 2012 isn't a dead-set win either, it's promising, but wait a year or two before making actual judgement. 2009 was a disaster, 2010 was average and 2011 is currently below average.

Should he choose Bontempelli, and Bontempelli flops, that should be the last straw.

As a supporter, I'm aware there are some risks that come with taking Bontempelli, but I think he could end up a really special player, so I wouldn't mind taking him. Recruiters however, are getting paid to choose, and need to get these early picks absolutely spot on, something Dalrymple has failed at once before.

 

[MJ_Dogs]

Anyone catch Emma Quayle of Triple M this morning? I only caught the end of it but it sounded as though she mentioned us and pick 4 and perhaps a differing view between coach and recruiters?

 

[footyfan000001]

Anyone noticed a trend since BMac has come to the club, Look back at all the draftees in his time and tell me what they have in common

Every Single one has been Victorian, Seems like Billings/Bontempeli... Are shoe ins

Victorian Yes and all have the ability to play more than one position - would that be fair?

That makes me feel that Bontempelli will be our man. Likened to Pendlebury. Can't be too bad.

 

[Zgope1]

it's amazing to me how speculative some people are finding a guy who ticks more boxes than the other people as a player.
-Has shown more ability to play mid unlike JB, MS and KK
-Can play as an inside mid unlike J Aish

Has good disposal, versatility, runs on the board in TAC cup as a forward, a winger and an inside mid (especially), improved across the champs and finished with a very good game meaning he can do it against quality (albeit played out of his best position), is a better physical prospect than the others maybe bar KK.

People are acting very childish about this, they're too emotionally involved because of two years of Aish love. Imagine if Collingwood didn't go with Pendles who was drafted under very similar circumstances.

When this broke out i shared many's opinion on here so i went and watched several full games and solely focussed on MB. Then i tracked his progression across the year and learnt more of his progress.

 

[stefoid]

let me provide that link for you

http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne...t-order-finalised-after-delisted-free-agency/

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

After meeting Macca at a work function, I've got a hunch that you guys will pick Bontempelli.

When I met Brendon McCartney at a work function earlier on this year (when he told me back then that Thomas was on his way to Carlton), he ran through the bulldogs recruiting model and what they looked for/what he was trying to achieve with his list management.

He said that during his time at Geelong it was drummed into the coaching staff that the bigger bodies stand up in September (he used Hawthorn and Sydney as examples - given the 2012 Grand Final), even though he's been accused of stocking up on similar type players (Koby Stevens, Libba, Wallace, Clay Smith, Hrovat, Lower, Boyd, Cross etc) he said that the players would learn to be adaptable with positions around the ground - and that midfield domination is what controls (and ultimately wins) games of football, so he was adding to that the best way possible by bringing in taller/bigger/strong bodies.

I can see Bontempelli appealing to him given his size, his age (given he is still growing into his body) and the fact that he is on an upward curve when it comes to his inside clearance work game. Bontempelli's size (194 cms) and the fact that he already has the ability to play as a forward/defender at TAC level runs hand in hand with Macca's "adaptability" model already.

 

[BRWB]

You obviously don't get the blind faith. You should trust in him blindly because we say so.

Our drafting history is littered with a lot of missed picks and mistakes. Let's exclude Dalrymple's first draft Lets not.

2010: After getting Wallis and Libba both players going to be picked by whomever was in the role, he picked out Schofield massive bust , who looked good but was a mommy's boy and wanted to go home, then Skinner bigger bust than Schofield who was a failed project player, then Hill bigger bust than Skinner who showed promise but never got a game. But in the rookie draft he picked out Dahl and JJ both look the goods. Did alright with the free picks he had, anything past 60 is a lottery, and nailed the rookie draft.

2011: Smith looks ok still big concerns on his kicking, Talia looks ok big concerns on kicking, Pearce unproven hasn't played, Dickson just a player wouldn't get a game at top clubs and is mature age and should be judged on this criterion. Pearce unproven hasn't played a game kind of came from nowhere and he's showed some signs and a few at the club are very high on him, and the rest are best 22. Snagged Roberts unproven hasn't played in the PSD and got Campbell signs are good but this was BMac from Ess inputting here apparently, Austin not even a good ordinary player, Jong unproven massive concerns on decision making and kicking when fit and has barely played, Greenwood, Redpath both haven't played, Redpath equals Mulligan in the rookie, so 50/50 in the rookie draft.

2012: Stringer shows good signs has leg injury and tank concerns, reckon he will be good, Macrae shows good signs should be good- , Hrovat shows signs/v small, quad injury concerns, Hunter looks good but father son, Prudden unproven hasn't played, Goodes old, not a great kick but serviceable

you forgot Lower - already delisted. It doesn't get much better than that.

He's gone on an upwards trajectory, and for the first time in a while a lot of us trust the recruiting staff to make the right call, as they have for the past 2 years. And there's nothing showing that that's going to change.

Dude I love your optimism but you really need to include all the facts if you want to make an argument not just the one's that suit. So you really can't look away from the Howard Tutt draft no matter how much no one wants to look, its still there.

You may think this is glass empty, but I have minimal to zero faith in Dalrymple, he appears to reach with picks and gamble too much for my liking, so no I don't see the upward trajectory. And Howard and Tutt continue to resonate. Maybe, just maybe the draft of 2012 will be as good as many think but the jury is out still.

 

[doggies ftw]

Lol 2011 was a ****ing great draft, Talia at pick 39 is huge and Smith is a beast, you can't say those two only "look ok" but then blame him for flops in the rookie draft when 90% of rookie picks do flop, also getting JJ and Dahl in the one rookie draft also deserves a hell of a lot more credit than "looks ok".

 

[BRWB]

Lol 2011 was a ******* great draft, Talia at pick 39 is huge and Smith is a beast, you can't say those two only "look ok" but then blame him for flops in the rookie draft when 90% of rookie picks do flop, also getting JJ and Dahl in the one rookie draft also deserves a hell of a lot more credit than "looks ok".

Most goals in today's footy are scored from turnovers. Players who can't kick are bigger liabilities than ever, that is my big rider on Smith and Talia who other than shizen kicking look good. But I don't think shizen kickers can be good AFL footy players. So if they can improve their kicking, Dalrymple gets a big tick for them, otherwise just a minor tick.

ps I hope you aren't LOLing if a Smith or Talia shizen kick costs us a final in a few years...

 

[fronkalicious]

I honestly think gws would trade pick 2 for talia. Kid is that good. Outstanding pick.

The thing I do like about dalrymple is that he clearly doesn't give a F#*k about what anyone thinks. He forms his own, independent opinions and backs himself in. I like that. Doesn't always work, but I would rather that than a cookie-cutter recruiter.

 

[doggies ftw]

Most goals in today's footy are scored from turnovers. Players who can't kick are bigger liabilities than ever, that is my big rider on Smith and Talia who other than shizen kicking look good. But I don't think shizen kickers can be good AFL footy players. So if they can improve their kicking, Dalrymple gets a big tick for them, otherwise just a minor tick.

ps I hope you aren't LOLing if a Smith or Talia shizen kick costs us a final in a few years...

They really aren't that bad, sure it looks bad but more often than not they hit their targets, their other positives FAR outweigh their negatives IMO.