List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[total football]

What are Daniel's chances of making it as a crumbing forward?

I agree with others in that a 167cm mid will often be exposed as a liability, but could he find a place at the feet of Boyd and Stringer? By all reports, he reads the play well, positions himself well to receive the ball and disposes of it well. Could be the logical next step for him at AFL level, rather than playing off stoppages and being ragdolled when he's isolated.

How many blokes do you want at the feet of Boyd, Stringer, Crameri etc? Throw in a resting ruck and a few mids (Stevens, Bontempelli etc) rotating through and we are already pushing capacity. Dahlhaus, Hrovat, Hunter, Honeychurch are already fighting it out for one or two spots. And that's assuming guys like Dickson and Grant aren't getting games.

 

[Dogsman16]

How many blokes do you want at the feet of Boyd, Stringer, Crameri etc? Throw in a resting ruck and a few mids (Stevens, Bontempelli etc) rotating through and we are already pushing capacity. Dahlhaus, Hrovat, Hunter, Honeychurch are already fighting it out for one or two spots. And that's assuming guys like Dickson and Grant aren't getting games.

Would take McLean at 39 if available, still think there is a place for a permanent small forward on AFL lists and we don't have any players who plays 100% of the time as a small forward, still think its an area we are lacking particularly as Dahlhaus is suited towards a high half forward and Hunter and Hrovat are more midfielders. Ditto JJ. Daniel at 46 possibly.

 

[Super Hans]

Is it possible that one of menadue, macdonald or gore is available at 39??? Think they're the 3 Id like at this point.

Gore should be.

Menadue
Garlett
Gore
McLean
Glenn

Make it happen.

 

[Dogsman16]

Gore should be.

Menadue
Garlett
Gore
McLean
Glenn

Make it happen.

Can't see Gore getting past the early 30's. I'l be filthy if we don't use 27 on him if available. Big Big fan of him. Menadue and Gore with our first 2, McLean at 39 and say a Cripps/Hammelman at 45 and Drummond/Glenn at 46 would be the dream result.

 

[Bulldocker]

Menadue and Garlett are two personal favourites of mine that are most likely to be around at our picks. Garlett for his two-way running/defensive awareness (which is pretty unusual for a player as dynamic as he is) and Menadue simply because I feel he's flown under the radar a bit and is streets ahead of a few of the more favoured late first/early second rounders as BF perceives them to be (eg. Ellis, Lamb). Later on/early rookie I'm a big fan of Josh McGuinness. Also like Mitch McGovern but I see him as a rookie prospect.

I got too attached to Lever this year so I've learned my lesson.

Think you may find the cupboard bare if you wait for the rookie draft to get McGovern. Perhaps your last pick at 82 could snare him but you should be elated to get him even at that stage Dan.

 

[Dry Rot]

Think you may find the cupboard bare if you wait for the rookie draft to get McGovern. Perhaps your last pick at 82 could snare him but you should be elated to get him even at that stage Dan.

IIRC our pick 82 is taken with a rookie upgrade (Jong or Redpath).

 

[paul scholes]

With Tutt, Cooney and the B/s artist worst ever captain now departed , we're going to need a little extra zip in this draft. Who do the draft watchers think we'll target in that regard?

 

[Dav1d]

With Tutt, Cooney and the B/s artist worst ever captain now departed , we're going to need a little extra zip in this draft. Who do the draft watchers think we'll target in that regard?

if they're there obviously
Garlett, Menadue, Cockatoo, Daniel McKenzie, maybe Drummond

I've probably missed a couple

 

[Gmod23]

With Tutt, Cooney and the B/s artist worst ever captain now departed , we're going to need a little extra zip in this draft. Who do the draft watchers think we'll target in that regard?

How about Jong? Already on the list and been groomed for an explosive midfield role. In the draft, cockatoo, Menadue, DVR, garlett, are prospects to look at.

 

[Yojimbo]

With Tutt, Cooney and the B/s artist worst ever captain now departed , we're going to need a little extra zip in this draft. Who do the draft watchers think we'll target in that regard?

I think we are in a bit of a wait and watch position in the draft with picks
26 & 27 in that what other teams do will affect us more than who we
choose to target. You could go in with a list of Maynard, Nelson, Cavka,
Gore, Vickers-Willis and Neal-Bullen and just cross the other picks off
as the dominoes fall. Do people think that picking up Hamling means that
we have gone cold on getting a KPD? Cooney and Griffen's burst speed
is hard to replace as they were picks 1 & 3 for a reason.

 

[GreatSouthWest]

One thing's for certain, with the amount of times Menadue has been named, if he doesn't land at the Dogs he'll always be considered a Bulldog in forumland.

 

[King Harold]

One thing's for certain, with the amount of times Menadue has been named, if he doesn't land at the Dogs he'll always be considered a Bulldog in forumland.

Ha ,we seem to love him on here. But if he ends somewhere else it wont take long to dislike him
I think we will just miss out on him.

 

[JJHunter]

Menadue and Garlett are two personal favourites of mine that are most likely to be around at our picks. Garlett for his two-way running/defensive awareness (which is pretty unusual for a player as dynamic as he is) and Menadue simply because I feel he's flown under the radar a bit and is streets ahead of a few of the more favoured late first/early second rounders as BF perceives them to be (eg. Ellis, Lamb). Later on/early rookie I'm a big fan of Josh McGuinness. Also like Mitch McGovern but I see him as a rookie prospect.

I got too attached to Lever this year so I've learned my lesson.

The xfactor and assets Menadue has lends himself to the dogs list.
Dannnnnnnnnn do you agree with the assessment below ?

Pro
- Can break a game open
- Disposal by foot is good
- Vision is good
- Utility type can play Mid, back and forward – best position = outside mid
- Very good overhead mark

Cons
- Very light – May take a couple of pre seasons before playing regular AFL footy
- Hardness is questionable, has pulled out of contests on a number of occasions
- Decision Making can be erratic – needs to clean this up

 

[hatescaptcha]

Brayden Maynard is an interesting prospect, he would be extremely hard to match up on. Bartel vibes.
One query, is he quick? Can't have too many more one paced players.

 

[Bulldogsnm1]

The xfactor and assets Menadue has lends himself to the dogs list.
Dannnnnnnnnn do you agree with the assessment below ?

Pro
- Can break a game open
- Disposal by foot is good
- Vision is good
- Utility type can play Mid, back and forward – best position = outside mid
- Very good overhead mark

Cons
- Very light – May take a couple of pre seasons before playing regular AFL footy
- Hardness is questionable, has pulled out of contests on a number of occasions
- Decision Making can be erratic – needs to clean this up

I have watched a lot of the Jets over the last 5 years, I have never seen him pull out of contests and have seen him go back with the flight, also his decision making is first class, not sure where this comes from.

 

[doggies ftw]

Menadue, Garlett, Gore at our first 3 would make me seriously seriously happy, then load up on talls with the other two picks and rookie picks.

 

[goodcop badcop]

Brayden Maynard is an interesting prospect, he would be extremely hard to match up on. Bartel vibes.
One query, is he quick? Can't have too many more one paced players.

He has a good burst of speed, ran under 3 seconds at the combine over 20m and has good agility. He does need to improve his endurance a bit. I'm warming to him, he would offer us a lot of value in a few different parts of the ground.

 

[footyfan000001]

Anyone seen the highlights of Cockatoo on the AFL website? He is my favourite in this years draft. Chances of him being available at 26?

 

[hatescaptcha]

He has a good burst of speed, ran under 3 seconds at the combine over 20m and has good agility. He does need to improve his endurance a bit. I'm warming to him, he would offer us a lot of value in a few different parts of the ground.

I'm officially sold.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

For those interested that haven't been following the thread, I've done my write-ups for Garlett, McDonald and Maynard:

Pick #26 - Western Bulldogs: Jarrod Garlett
Height: 177cm
Weight: 72kg
DOB: 18/08/96

General comments: Garlett's an indigenous wingman from WA with uncanny speed and a work rate to match. There's always at least one player in the draft that you just latch onto, and who firms as a personal favourite very early on. Garlett is somebody that I was impressed with on my first viewing of him, and he hasn't disappointed, displaying his flair and athleticism all throughout the season and firming as a second-round selection on the back of some seriously damaging football. He isn't without risk, but his upside is significant and he projects as both an offensive and defensive threat at the top level.

Strengths: Generally when you have a young, dynamic, outside speedster in the draft you're seduced by his speed and have to downplay his less-than-stellar endurance...but this is not the case with Garlett. His pace and endurance are both extremely good, which is a very valuable combination for a player in his role. He's a difficult player to match up on as there aren't many blokes as quick as him that are capable of keeping up with him all game, and this is where he makes his mark at AFL level in my opinion. It allows him to provide a constant presence both offensively and defensively and occasionally inflict some serious hurt on the opposition with his pace. He's quick off the mark but it's his sustained pace that's truly impressive. When you add all this to brilliant agility - with an uncanny ability to sidestep his opponents or spin out of certain tackles - it makes him a very difficult player to catch up to, and to actually lay the tackle if you manage to get anywhere near him.

His athleticism is supported brilliantly by his ability to kick the ball long and hard. He's an extremely high metres-gained player for this very reason. His forward entries are penetrating and often to the advantage of his teammates and you'll rarely see him chipping it around the flanks, which, in my mind, is vital for these very outside types. There's little point going on an extended run with speed if you're going to hand a stationary target the ball outside scoring range, and this is something Garlett understands very well - even when under pressure. He's a solid, long kick off both sides of his body which has caught a number of players out at the junior level. He can lack some consistency by foot at times but I've had trouble seeing any real flaws in his technique and think it may be more of a consequence of the intensity with which he plays. In shorter range he will need to work on his kicking as when not kicking to a leading forward he can miss his targets a little around the ground. Regardless, he's a guy that any full forward would love to have in the side. The pace at which he plays makes it extremely difficult for double-teaming to occur.

Surprisingly, though, it's not his offensive game that impressed me the most - it's his defensive side. This is what sets him apart from many of the outside-runners in the draft from my perspective. Without the ball he's an excellent tackler for his size, and chases his opponents with reckless abandon. Similarly, his defensive awareness is sound and rarely lets opponents generate too much space on him. Occasionally, however, he can be hesitant in switching from defense to offense and this is something he will need to work on in order to capitalise on his skills at AFL level. All in all, though, when you have an extremely damaging line-breaker who works hard both ways and is able to keep his direct opponent in-check more often than not, you have a prospect that could project as a vital part of an AFL side. This is part of the reason why I view him slightly more favourably to Jarrod Pickett. It's an unpopular opinion for sure but while Pickett's hurt factor is undoubtedly higher I think Garlett is more likely to make it as a vital cog in a good side because of his reliability in both sides of the game.

What he needs to work on: Inside, Garlett gets pushed off the ball like a stray blade of grass. While it is somewhat expected of a 177cm, 72kg kid it still happens more than I'd like and I'm not convinced the problem is entirely strength-based. Inside the contest he doesn't use his body well, he doesn't stay grounded enough and he's not a contested ball-winning presence. He's almost exclusively an outside player and while he certainly isn't afraid of contact he's not somebody who thrives when there's congestion around the ball and he's not the type of player that I'd be betting on to come out of a pack with the ball. When the game is constricted he does find ways to win the ball; however, every strictly-outside player in every draft runs the risk of being unable to step up under the pressure of AFL football. I'm not too concerned about the bust potential here, given that his skills are still very sound under pressure and he can win the ball when there is congestion, but his poor work inside the contest is likely to limit his overall output to somewhere below elite. I do think he will improve his inside work in an AFL system as he builds up his strength, but it is never going to be a feature of his game.

I could talk about Garlett's defensive prowess all day and possibly start foaming at the mouth while doing so, but as much as I love his work defensively I do think he can sometimes be a little too defensive. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that Garlett is the type of player you want running in clean air, linking up play and enabling the team to work the ball out of tight situations, but unfortunately it doesn't happen as often as you'd like. He doesn't have trouble creating separation on his man but occasionally he is hesitant to do so. He needs to react to the play a little bit more quickly and get better at switching from defensive-mindedness to a more offensive mindset. I don't want to take the defensive side out of his game - not at all - but he can mis-read the subtle cues that indicate which way the game is going. This is especially a problem when his teammates are looking for an outlet pass but he's too concerned about his opponent to position himself to receive it. That said, I expect that this will be ironed out in an AFL system with experience. It's something that does need to improve, however - especially given the increased pace at AFL level. It's not as though he doesn't work hard enough - he does - he's just too slow to react at times. He has the capabilities necessary to become an excellent link-up player, however: good overhead, reads the ball in the air well, quick, good endurance and an excellent work rate - it's just about bringing these all together with a bit more experience with the nuances of the game.

Where he fits: I don't think I'm re-inventing the wheel by suggesting that the 'Dogs desperately need to add some pace and I'd say that it's pretty obvious how Garlett fits us. Our midfield group at the minute is likely to include the likes of Boyd, Liberatore, Wallis, Bontempelli, Stevens, Macrae and Smith (along with Will Minson waddling around also) and I'd imagine that if you strategically placed a turtle in the centre-square it would probably out-run most of them. Offensively, Garlett adds some much-needed line-breaking ability on the outside and, with such a strong on-ball group, is able to play his natural role without needing to be a massive presence inside the contest. In the past few years we've also unfortunately been a side hesitant to run both ways and it's defensively that I think Garlett offers the most - we're often carved up by quick players and if Garlett develops as expected we might actually have one of our own for a change.


Pick #27 - Western Bulldogs: Oscar McDonald
Height: 196cm
Weight: 88kg
DOB: 18/03/96

General comments: McDonald is a strong, smart key defender from North Ballarat who excels in one-on-one contests and has seen his draft stocks rise considerably after a very impressive TAC Cup season. I'm a big fan of McDonald but even I will admit that this is marginally higher than he probably should be going, and he likely slides into the low-mid 30s in the real thing - perhaps even later - on the back of a perceived relatively low ceiling. He also did not play any games at the U18 Championships. However, I see McDonald as the key defender most likely to develop into a solid member of a good best 22 at this stage of the draft, and it is this stability, safety and one-on-one ability that I feel the 'Dogs require in their back half into the future.

Strengths: If you're taking McDonald, you're taking him because of his ability to lock down on a dangerous opponent and keep them relatively quiet. McDonald blankets his opponents and does it with a very nice blend of attributes: extreme smarts in a contest, excellent core strength, elite ability to read the ball in the air, fantastic agility for his height, good closing speed, good reach and a nice leap. He's comfortable both close to goal and higher up the ground and is capable of defending aerial entires, as well as shutting down opposition leads. In short, if you're opposed to McDonald you're going to be forced to work extremely hard for every opportunity. It's his tenacity, ruthlessness and work rate that will see him make it as an AFL-standard stopper. While best utilised as a centre-half back he's comfortable playing on a variety of opponents: athletic or strong; tall or small; good or awful.

McDonald's a very defensively-oriented player but that's not to say he's incompetent in the other areas of the game. He does read the game pretty well and it enables him to come off his man when the ball isn't directed at him and offer some support to his teammates. His rebound, while not a feature of his game, is sound, often moving the ball quickly and gaining meterage without turning it over or getting himself out of position. He's good at identifying when switching play is appropriate and when it isn't, and more often than not he'll find the right outlet.

In short, McDonald is a player who's extremely well-developed defensively and competent offensively.

What he needs to work on: McDonald's ground work is messy and it's really my only significant concern with him. He keeps his feet, but is slow to react and to get down to the ground when necessary, and fumbles are more common than you'd like. At 196cm you don't expect him to out-manoeuvre many midfielders but for his height his ground-level ability is lacking and it does limit his effectiveness at times. He's an exceptional player in the contest but after he's defended the contest the better ground-level players can catch him out a little on the second attempts. I feel as though he sometimes appears hesitant to attack the ball after negating it in the contest and this is undoubtedly something that an AFL club attempts to address very quickly. I'm not sure how he tests in repeat-sprints but I don't feel like it's a problem when defending repeated leads, which makes me think that it's possibly more of a hesitation than any sort of physical limitation. He's not hesitant to draw contact by any means so I reason that it's an issue that can be addressed.

Where he fits: If I had to sit through many more games watching Mark Austin fall over his own feet I'd probably chew my own face off, or at the very least lose more brain cells than I can afford to thanks to repeatedly bashing my head against a wall. Realistically though, there's a reason he played seven games this season: we don't have a lot of young KPD talent on our list. Talia has shown signs of being a serviceable key defender but has numerous things to work on. Roberts is improving week by week and looks a solid prospect but still has a bit to go in his development. Roughead was poor this year, and we're yet to see whether that was injury-related or not. We need to add some tall talent to our back half and, for me, McDonald is the best choice here. He offers strength in contests and a team-first attitude that will see our defensive six become a more cohesive and effective unit.

Pick #39 - Western Bulldogs: Brayden Maynard
Height: 186cm
Weight: 88kg
DOB: 20/09/96

General comments: I'll preface this by mentioning that this wasn't the direction I was planning on going in. I don't think Maynard is a fantastic kick, and I don't think the 'Dogs can go too many more drafts without initiating an, "If you can't kick we don't draft you," recruiting policy given our shoddy ball movement and consistent turnovers. That said, though, I rate Maynard considerably higher than pick 39 and at this point he was clearly best available to me. As I'll explore in more depth later, he isn't a bad kick, but I'd planned on looking for a more consistently damaging midfielder here. Upon further reflection, I simply couldn't allow him to continue to slide. In summary, he's a powerful and exceptionally physical utility who can play all over the ground and have an impact both on offense and defense. He won't ever be an elite player in my mind, but what he will be is a much-valued contributor week in, week out. He can play a variety of roles and has that 'cult figure' feel about him.

Strengths: When you go and watch Maynard, what stands out most is the physicality with which he plays. "Measured aggression" is how I would describe how he goes about his football in two words. He's not going to give a player a whack off the ball or tackle with intent to injure, but what he is going to do is make his presence felt (and then felt some more). He tackles with ferocity and he does it often, averaging around four tackles a game in the TAC Cup despite playing few midfield minutes. He sticks his tackles more often than not and manages to force many, many turnovers with his intensity and work rate brilliant. He does all the team things off the ball as well - bumps, blocks, covers for teammates, chases and more. His pace seems to be a matter of debate - I've seen some suggest that he's slow, others that he's quick, and some in between. I fit into the latter category. He's not super quick but he's not slow at all. He certainly has little trouble chasing down opponents and he doesn't look slow on field to me, but I think some of this can be attributed to how quickly he reacts to the game.

Maynard has a pretty big frame and knows how to use it in contests. He positions himself well and wins the contested ball with ease. He understands when to enter a contest and when not to, and he understands his role in both scenarios. He's a 'crash and bash' type; the kind of guy who is guaranteed to cause a few bruises to his direct opponent regardless of whether he comes out with the ball or not. Under pressure his hands are brilliant and he has an uncanny ability to find the right option when he really has no right to. Aerially he's able to use his bigger body to good effect as well; one-on-one he's rarely beaten against those of similar size and he has extremely strong hands which make him an intercept/link-up threat all over the ground.

The other biggest strength in Maynard's game is his versatility; he's played rebounding roles down back; lockdown roles; as a marking target deep in the forward 50; as a high half-forward; and has shown ability in the midfield. In any part of the ground you can rely on him to apply pressure and win one-on-ones, and this ability to switch where he's most needed will make him a coach's favourite.

What he needs to work on: The biggest thing missing from Maynard at the moment is a tank. I feel as though his best football will come when he's allowed solid minutes on-ball in between stints up forward and down back, but for the moment he just doesn't have the endurance to play in the middle. I don't know what his beep test results were but I imagine they weren't flash and it's an area of some concern. He projects as a valuable player all over the ground but if he's unable to get his tank up to a more reasonable level it's going to severely limit his ceiling.

With ball in hand I'd back him to find the right guy in close range under pressure, but when forced to look down-field his foot skills are underwhelming. He's not an atrocious kick and he normally has the right ideas, but he has a habit of bombing it long or placing it on the heads of forwards. I think there's room for improvement and he's very much demonstrated an awful lot of improvement already this year, but it's certainly not a strength of his.

Where he fits: I can hear the groans of exasperation from Western Bulldogs fans already: "Another inside mid;" "FFS, another mid that can't kick;" "You should've picked Fevola!" Unfortunately I'm not totally taking the piss with that last one. What the 'Dogs lack is defensive pressure, and Maynard will provide that in spades - regardless of where he plays. He also adds another big body and some more physicality around the contest. Short-term at AFL level he's probably best suited as a forward, but I'd be taking a longer-term view and grooming him in defense in the VFL. The hope for me is that, in future, he's able to start on-ball and give considerable minutes there going forward but if this is impossible, I still like his ability to contribute at either end of the ground.

McLean, Howe, Cordy and the rookies will come in the next few days.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Menadue reads a lot like Rob Murphy when he first started.

 

[ossie_21]

Anyone seen the highlights of Cockatoo on the AFL website? He is my favourite in this years draft. Chances of him being available at 26?

I've seen a few phantom drafts they have him around the 20 mark, he may slide but I doubt it. Funny how last years draft was considered fairly bare outside the top 10/20, while this year it's pretty even in between 20-50

 

[Bulldogsnm1]

Menadue reads a lot like Rob Murphy when he first started.

Interesting stats from 2000


WESTERN BULLDOGS
13 ROBERT MURPHY(Gippsland Power)17, 184cm, 68kg
32 DANIEL GIANSIRACUSA(Western Jets)17, 180cm, 68kg
35 PATRICK WIGGINS(Tassie Mariners)18, 195cm, 96kg
37 MITCHELL HAHN(Northern Eagles)18, 188cm, 89kg
43 LINDSAY GILBEE(Eastern Ranges)18, 178.5cm, 67kg

3 very light boys had wonderful careers, and Mitch hahn was a bull from day 1.

 

[maddog37]

Mitch Hahn, oh how I miss you!

 

[stefoid]

Menadue, Garlett, Gore at our first 3 would make me seriously seriously happy, then load up on talls with the other two picks and rookie picks.

Apparently Garlett is a lock for first round according to sam landsberger