List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[Ant_]

Don't think Mckenzie will last to pick 26 I reckon he is a lock for the saints at 21 or 22

Yep wonder what Geelong were thinking

 

[Hrovat24]

Yep wonder what Geelong were thinking

Surely they owed the saints a favour

 

[Wizard17]

I'm not sure how I'll take it if for the first year since I've followed the draft my favorite player isn't picked by us was like this for Macrae and Bonti. Just think he'd add a lot. Again we'll have to agree to disagree about him being able to play the role of a medium forward.

I don't think that he takes as many high flying marks as it reported I know of two he has taken this year but he has managed to take a lot of contested marks. Not saying we get him to improve our midfield marking I'm saying he influences games significantly and has elite disposal both on the inside and outside and lowers his eyes naturally when going forward, things that we lack. Skippos had him in his Phantom at our pick in the 40's if we could get him there then we have a player that can play deep forward as like Elliott or playing as an outside mid using his damaging skill set to set up our forwards. I like players who can influence games he does that consistently.

Think that someone like Payne going along with Crameri and Bonti could push up the ground to play that role of marking that you are talking about even a Menadue or another tall midfielder could help out in that regard. When did I say that McLean would help out with our midfield marking? He'd help to solidify our skills, our ability to hit the scoreboard and will help Dahl (I can't see Honey influence games like those two can) get free from tags more often.

He is not a medium forward though

lets face it, we absolutely stink at marking around the ground
I'm not talking about contested marks in the forward line/backline either

but if you look at the amount of marks we take in the midfield compared to the other clubs, I think its alarming how poor it is
sure it will improve

but I don't think another player under the 180cm would be the best bet, I mean AFL players ain't going to let him use them as a step ladder
and AFL players are much better at spoiling the ball, in fact at junior level you won't often see a lot of spoiling from anyone but key defenders

and Dahl and Honey can crumb & kick a goal; read what I replied to
I wasn't discussing McLean

All really depends who we take in the draft now
personally, I hope we only take any other smalls with late picks

Jarrod Garlett/Connor Menadue/Daniel McKenzie/Nathan Drummond

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

How did Neal-Bullen test for speed at the combine? I think I had seen Gore was pretty quick, solid player as well

don't rate Blakely? Your rookies are also interesting, who is McGuinness? heard the name
think we'd take some mature age talent to

heard a few people mention Marcon, never watched him play though

Not sure how he tested, but with him it's more just how hard he runs both ways that impresses me. Great endurance, clean, and remarkable forward play. He's got that Clay Smith touch where he's very clearly a midfielder but looks just as close to home up forward. Really like what he offers as a sort of mid-draft pick.

Not sure about Blakely, just haven't been overly impressed by him. Think there's a fair chance he's gone by pick 26 anyway as a bit of a project.
McGuinness is probably the best Tassie prospect this season. He's a really attacking half back flanker with a beautiful kick and nice movement. Poor defensively but as a rookie prospect he's somebody I really like as a bit of a longer-term type.

My view on mature talent is that, while some more would be nice, I think we have young players on pretty much every line that we all hope are getting games next year. Yes, we've lost Griffen, Cooney and Higgins; but most on here tried to drop the latter two numerous times throughout the season. Griffen is a big loss but we have enough young midfield prospects to give another a game there. For experienced/mature types we've still got Morris, Stevens, Crameri, Picken, Minson, Boyd, Murphy and Dickson - how many more do you want? For mine, adding more likely costs youngsters games for role playing stop-gaps. I'm not particularly enamoured by any of the mature prospects that I've seen and I'd rather not just select somebody because they're a bit older. Not fussed if we do pick some up but I'm not a huge fan of the idea. I'd love a mature CHB but I'm not sure there are many around. Happy to just go to the draft and continue the youth policy.

 

[Wizard17]

Would like either Kovacevic or Pittonet in that order as a Rookie. Kova reminds me a little of Tommy C. Who is Maher Dannnnnnnnnn? Would perfer Payne to go with Boyd just provides excellent forward pressure and has a really big tank. Would need an intermediate to play CHF while he baulks up though. Unless you see Cripps/Hammelmann as a forward/ruck

 

[Dav1d]

I'm not sure how I'll take it if for the first year since I've followed the draft my favorite player isn't picked by us was like this for Macrae and Bonti. Just think he'd add a lot. Again we'll have to agree to disagree about him being able to play the role of a medium forward.

I don't think that he takes as many high flying marks as it reported I know of two he has taken this year but he has managed to take a lot of contested marks. Not saying we get him to improve our midfield marking I'm saying he influences games significantly and has elite disposal both on the inside and outside and lowers his eyes naturally when going forward, things that we lack. Skippos had him in his Phantom at our pick in the 40's if we could get him there then we have a player that can play deep forward as like Elliott or playing as an outside mid using his damaging skill set to set up our forwards. I like players who can influence games he does that consistently.

Think that someone like Payne going along with Crameri and Bonti could push up the ground to play that role of marking that you are talking about even a Menadue or another tall midfielder could help out in that regard. When did I say that McLean would help out with our midfield marking? He'd help to solidify our skills, our ability to hit the scoreboard and will help Dahl (I can't see Honey influence games like those two can) get free from tags more often.

I didn't say he'd help with midfield marking, just that is where we need more help
in the midfield and in defense
like I said earlier, no need to cover every need in the draft, might be a forward next season that you like even more

Not sure how he tested, but with him it's more just how hard he runs both ways that impresses me. Great endurance, clean, and remarkable forward play. He's got that Clay Smith touch where he's very clearly a midfielder but looks just as close to home up forward. Really like what he offers as a sort of mid-draft pick.

Not sure about Blakely, just haven't been overly impressed by him. Think there's a fair chance he's gone by pick 26 anyway as a bit of a project.
McGuinness is probably the best Tassie prospect this season. He's a really attacking half back flanker with a beautiful kick and nice movement. Poor defensively but as a rookie prospect he's somebody I really like as a bit of a longer-term type.

My view on mature talent is that, while some more would be nice, I think we have young players on pretty much every line that we all hope are getting games next year. Yes, we've lost Griffen, Cooney and Higgins; but most on here tried to drop the latter two numerous times throughout the season. Griffen is a big loss but we have enough young midfield prospects to give another a game there. For experienced/mature types we've still got Morris, Stevens, Crameri, Picken, Minson, Boyd, Murphy and Dickson - how many more do you want? For mine, adding more likely costs youngsters games for role playing stop-gaps. I'm not particularly enamoured by any of the mature prospects that I've seen and I'd rather not just select somebody because they're a bit older. Not fussed if we do pick some up but I'm not a huge fan of the idea. I'd love a mature CHB but I'm not sure there are many around. Happy to just go to the draft and continue the youth policy.

Yeah I agree that it wouldn't hurt to add some more grunt in the midfield
also inside ball winners usually have a better time adjusting to AFL and Neal-Bullen was one of the best if not the best across the Champs

 

[Wizard17]

Or we take one of Cripps/Hammelmann with Payne?

 

[fronkalicious]

Can't play all my cards before the BF phantom.

I think we're in a pretty good position to take best available to be honest. Tall defenders, tall forwards, speed and skill are all obvious needs; but with Griff out and Boyd probably in his last year (plus injury concerns with Smith and Prudden) I don't think a bit more grunt inside the contest would go astray either. With five picks inside the top 50 we've got some flexibility to just pick the players we think have the best chance of making it at each pick - chances are, if they're good enough, they'll have a role with us as either starting 22, or quality depth.

Something I put together rather quickly:
Pick 26: Connor Menadue (Liam Duggan / Neal-Bullen)
Pick 27: Oscar McDonald (Jarrod Garlett / Matthew Hammelmann)
Pick 39: Matthew Hammelmann (Toby McLean / Brayden Maynard)
Pick 45: Brayden Maynard (Damien Cavka / Daniel Nielsen)
Pick 46: Jack Cripps (Daniel McKenzie / Sean McLaren)

Rookie 1: Josh McGuinness
Rookie 2: Marc Pittonet
Rookie 3: Jake Maher
Rookie 4: Dan Howe

It's really speculative as anything can happen before even our first pick, but these are just some ideas. My point is that we don't have to fret and attempt to reach for needs; with the amount of picks we have in a good range there's a decent chance that we end up covering most of what we need anyway. With my first choices in the main draft we're getting two KPFs (Hammelmann and Cripps), a KPD (McDonald) and two utilities (Menadue and Maynard). We're gaining speed, skill, height and some grunt around the contest as well - a really nice balance there.

Surely we take some mature/recycled talent in the rookie draft. We need some bodies to help us get through next season.

And is Monty seriously odds on for our job!?? God I hope not. Fresh blood required.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Surely we take some mature/recycled talent in the rookie draft. We need some bodies to help us get through next season.

And is Monty seriously odds on for our job!?? God I hope not. Fresh blood required.

I've been wondering about that... how could he be such high odds. Does someone know something we don't? I wouldn't have him at 100/1. No where near the cred or experience required. It worries me to be honest.

 

[Super Hans]

Just hope we rookie Nick Rippon, I'll be ecstatic if he gets picked up.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Does anyone know if we are still looking to Draft kids who can play straight up AFL at least a few games, or has that been altered?

 

[paul scholes]

Line breaker
Key back and another back or mid

 

[paul scholes]

Line breaker
Key back and another back or mid

 

[stefoid]

Tell me about Corey ellis....

 

[Skippos]

How did Neal-Bullen test for speed at the combine? I think I had seen Gore was pretty quick, solid player as well


don't rate Blakely? Your rookies are also interesting, who is McGuinness? heard the name
think we'd take some mature age talent to

heard a few people mention Marcon, never watched him play though

Neal Bullen didn't test as he'd have liked for speed but that's not to say he's not fast. Unless you're an outside winger raw straight line speed is really overrated in my eyes. How many of the best players are truly fast in straight lines? I reckon if you got some of the players we considered quick to sprint we'd be surprised at their lack of pace. Speed is just as much about composure and decisions as it is pace. Someone like Neal Bullen isn't incredibly quick in straight lines but he picks the right times to run, runs to the right places, makes the correct decisions, changes directions with intelligence and does all that sort of stuff that allows him to be 'fast' if that makes sense. He's able to break away from the packs like a quick bloke because he's so quick minded that he's always in the position to be able to. That said, he's not by any means slow paced either.

He is not a medium forward though

lets face it, we absolutely stink at marking around the ground
I'm not talking about contested marks in the forward line/backline either

but if you look at the amount of marks we take in the midfield compared to the other clubs, I think its alarming how poor it is
sure it will improve

but I don't think another player under the 180cm would be the best bet, I mean AFL players ain't going to let him use them as a step ladder
and AFL players are much better at spoiling the ball, in fact at junior level you won't often see a lot of spoiling from anyone but key defenders

and Dahl and Honey can crumb & kick a goal; read what I replied to
I wasn't discussing McLean

All really depends who we take in the draft now
personally, I hope we only take any other smalls with late picks

Jarrod Garlett/Connor Menadue/Daniel McKenzie/Nathan Drummond

I'm not sure if your marking issue is a team balance issue or a tactical issue. I favour the latter. MacRae for example is one of the most talented mids at the comp at finding uncontested marks. Like not ones where he's in 100 metres of space like wingmen do, but genuine uncontested marks that create options another player wouldn't. Bontempelli is a gifted mark too. Crameri (with the addition of Boyd) should be able to work up a bit more and he's also quite a gifted player at working into space. He could conceivably play a Tomlinson/Tom T. Lynch kind of role this year. A firing (and I think he will next year) Jarrad Grant can provide an option across half forward. Koby Stevens has some real marking talent. I think the framework is there especially if you have a conducive game plan.

I'm not sure how I'll take it if for the first year since I've followed the draft my favorite player isn't picked by us was like this for Macrae and Bonti. Just think he'd add a lot. Again we'll have to agree to disagree about him being able to play the role of a medium forward.

I don't think that he takes as many high flying marks as it reported I know of two he has taken this year but he has managed to take a lot of contested marks. Not saying we get him to improve our midfield marking I'm saying he influences games significantly and has elite disposal both on the inside and outside and lowers his eyes naturally when going forward, things that we lack. Skippos had him in his Phantom at our pick in the 40's if we could get him there then we have a player that can play deep forward as like Elliott or playing as an outside mid using his damaging skill set to set up our forwards. I like players who can influence games he does that consistently.

Think that someone like Payne going along with Crameri and Bonti could push up the ground to play that role of marking that you are talking about even a Menadue or another tall midfielder could help out in that regard. When did I say that McLean would help out with our midfield marking? He'd help to solidify our skills, our ability to hit the scoreboard and will help Dahl (I can't see Honey influence games like those two can) get free from tags more often.

McLean would be a fantastic list fit. Really hope you grab him

 

[Mutt]

Surely we take some mature/recycled talent in the rookie draft. We need some bodies to help us get through next season.

And is Monty seriously odds on for our job!?? God I hope not. Fresh blood required.

Sportsbet have taken more money for Monty than for all other candidates combined. They've suspended betting. Unbelievable isn't it?

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Sportsbet have taken more money for Monty than for all other candidates combined. They've suspended betting. Unbelievable isn't it?

That's what has me freaking out, does someone know something we don't? I never would have thought him that high odds it's stupid. Either they believe Monty was behind everything and will get the job because of the cafe and all that rubbish, or they believe the bulldogs are idiots and so are placing the most money on the wrong call.... Neither is flattering really.

 

[Dav1d]

Neal Bullen didn't test as he'd have liked for speed but that's not to say he's not fast. Unless you're an outside winger raw straight line speed is really overrated in my eyes. How many of the best players are truly fast in straight lines? I reckon if you got some of the players we considered quick to sprint we'd be surprised at their lack of pace. Speed is just as much about composure and decisions as it is pace. Someone like Neal Bullen isn't incredibly quick in straight lines but he picks the right times to run, runs to the right places, makes the correct decisions, changes directions with intelligence and does all that sort of stuff that allows him to be 'fast' if that makes sense. He's able to break away from the packs like a quick bloke because he's so quick minded that he's always in the position to be able to. That said, he's not by any means slow paced either.



I'm not sure if your marking issue is a team balance issue or a tactical issue. I favour the latter. MacRae for example is one of the most talented mids at the comp at finding uncontested marks. Like not ones where he's in 100 metres of space like wingmen do, but genuine uncontested marks that create options another player wouldn't. Bontempelli is a gifted mark too. Crameri (with the addition of Boyd) should be able to work up a bit more and he's also quite a gifted player at working into space. He could conceivably play a Tomlinson/Tom T. Lynch kind of role this year. A firing (and I think he will next year) Jarrad Grant can provide an option across half forward. Koby Stevens has some real marking talent. I think the framework is there especially if you have a conducive game plan.

Dean Gore was the other midfielder that I really liked, didn't mind Blakely either
think he uses it pretty well under pressure

I'm hoping most of these team things improve, kicking in general and marking around the ground has been pretty poor-average

What do you think is the lowest someone like McLaren goes? I'm really hoping we pick up someone like McLaren/Neilson later in the draft
even if McDonald was taken earlier by us

 

[Aldo]

That's what has me freaking out, does someone know something we don't? I never would have thought him that high odds it's stupid. Either they believe Monty was behind everything and will get the job because of the cafe and all that rubbish, or they believe the bulldogs are idiots and so are placing the most money on the wrong call.... Neither is flattering really.

Monty has been chucking all his wife's earnings from the cafe on himself on Sportsbet. That's why the odds are now so short.

 

[Reptilia]

Where abouts do you think tom lamb will end up going ?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Tell me about Corey ellis....

He's not too dissimilar to Lachie Hunter in a lot of areas for mine. He's got great skills and can pull off the ridiculous more often than most but he fades in and out and barely gets a touch when he's "out". Defensive side needs a lot of work. He's a main draft pick but not the top 20 type many have touted him as for mine. Good project and somebody who you'd really want the ball in the hands of. Has the same swagger as Hunter too; knows he can pull off the incredible and will keep taking the difficult option.

Where abouts do you think tom lamb will end up going ?

I'm not a big fan. I think he's coming from a fair way back in terms of football development and, personally, think you have to have the right attitude and mindset to lift that to AFL standard - I'm not sure he has that. Athletically he has all the tools to be a star but he needs to sort his shit out and really work hard if he wants to be one. A club will take a punt on turning him around somewhere in the 10-30 range, I'd say. Probably closer to 20.

 

[VitalDread]

Paige Cardona’s Phantom Draft: 5.0

Pick 26: Western Bulldogs – Connor Menadue

Position: Midfielder/forward
Height: 188 cm, Weight: 69 kg, DOB: 19/09/1996
Club: Western Jets
Projected draft range: 20-40
Plays like: Isaac Smith

An explosive yet nimble midfielder, don’t let Connor Menadue’s light frame fool you into thinking he isn’t up to the rigours of AFL football. Averaging 18 disposals for the Western Jets behind the likes of Liam Duggan, Corey Ellis, Dillon Viojo-Rainbow and Jayden Laverde, Menadue’s ability to cut open a game with his speed and penetrating kick makes him an exciting prospect for a club that’s looking for pace in their midfield. Although on the skinny side, Menadue cracks in hard when it comes to tackling, and has a knack for kicking goals on the run. He gets a big tick for versatility, playing mostly off half back and on a wing, albeit with stints up forward for the Jets. He takes the game on, rating among the best performed for handball receives, while also making good decisions. With the ability to use the ball by both hand and foot, Menadue has a certain amount of polish that a player of his ilk needs. He slips through congestion with his breakaway speed and loves to run and carry up a wing, not too dissimilar to Hawthorn’s Isaac Smith. I rate him highly particularly due to his agility, game awareness, and clean hands. Named best on ground in the Jets’ elimination loss, Menadue almost willed the Jets over the line off his own boot, accruing 27 disposals at 87 per cent efficiency, 18 handball receives and two goals.

Pick 27: Western Bulldogs – Oscar McDonald

Position: Key defender/forward
Height: 196 cm, Weight: 88 kg, DOB: 18/03/1996
Club: North Ballarat
Projected draft range 25-50
Plays like: Jackson Trengove

Oscar McDonald is one of the better key defenders I am really bullish about in terms of advancing to the next level. He is tall and athletic, and also picks off numerous forward 50 entries with his tremendous ability to take intercept marks and rebound strongly. Best described as a general in defence, McDonald – the younger brother of Melbourne’s Tom – is extremely versatile as a defender, and, unlike most key defenders, he loves to back himself and use the ball by foot. He hits the ball flat and hard, and has a really nice turn of foot, being deceptively quick over his first few steps. The Rebels have also used him as a key forward, where he’s shown he can be equally as damaging. He has a fantastic leap, strong hands, really good work rate and rarely ever goes to ground. I’m a big fan of the way he loves to play in front of his man, often a few metres ahead. Simply, he’s a super smart footballer, and led the TAC Cup competition for contested marks this year. Taking home the coaches award in the TAC Cup, McDonald took big scalps throughout the year, including Darcy Moore, Peter Wright and Paddy McCartin.

Pick 39: Western Bulldogs - Harrison Wigg

Position: Defender/midfielder
Height: 179 cm, Weight: 74 kg, DOB: 14/10/1996
Recruited from: North Adelaide
Projected draft range: 20-60
Plays like: Ben McGlynn

Dubbed ‘the best kick of the draft’, Wigg is a small defender/midfielder with some classy, ball-magnet attributes that could see him either bolt or drift in November. Wigg – who averaged 18.6 disposals (at an efficiency of 79 per cent), 3.3 marks, 2.3 tackles, 1.3 clearances and two inside 50s in his six games – took home not only South Australia’s MVP, but also All-Australian honours. Despite playing in defence during the carnival, Wigg plays as a ball-winning midfielder at North Adelaide, averaging 28 disposals at 77 per cent disposal efficiency, including 7.2 marks, 2.5 tackles, five clearances, 6.2 inside 50s and 1.7 rebound 50s per game at Colts level. Whilst size and speed may not be on his side, his best assets lay in his high-production numbers, strong decision making, vision and disposal. He may bolt or drift depending on how clubs view him when it comes to his scope for development. Wigg has the potential to become a handy small, rebounding defender at the next level.

Pick 45: Western Bulldogs – Jack Cripps

Position: Key forward/ruckman
Height: 198 cm, Weight: 85 kg, DOB: 20/01/1996
Club: East Fremantle
Projected draft range: 20-50
Plays like: Drew Petrie

Jack Cripps is a big key position forward prospect who is more than adept at holding his own during stints in the ruck. However, consistency has perhaps evaded him throughout his top-age year. Up forward he does his best work, as he understands the drop of the ball and has a clean and penetrating set shot technique. He has safe, one-grab marks, and likes to mark out in front or overhead, while also getting enough separation on his opponent in those initial few steps to offer strong leads. He’s a really strong leader, while his patterns through the forward 50 and up to high half forward are strong.

Pick 46: Western Bulldogs – Nathan Drummond

Position: Utility
Height: 181 cm, Weight: 85 kg, DOB: 19/01/1995
Club: Murray Bushrangers
Projected draft range: 50-rookie
Plays like: Bob Murphy

Drummond is a really exciting prospect that’s gone from just a forward last season to a bonafide utility type, blessed with elite speed and endurance and a big natural leap. The Vic Country utility is a big-stage player, with his 30 disposals and a goal against Sandringham in the elimination final his finest display for the year. Drummond’s strengths lay in his speed, his running capacity and his thumping kick which easily penetrates over 50 metres. The top-age prospect this year has become more of a well-rounded player, being able to play through the midfield, off half back and forward where his marking attributes and long kick have been highlighted. I really rate his strong attack at the ball and his agility to lend regular surges through the midfield. He is explosive, has x-factor in his game while he’s also bit of a spare-parts man: he can play several roles as required on the day. He doesn’t necessarily excel in one position, but he’s a handy utility that is a side’s reliable fix-it option. An athletic monster, Drummond came inside the top 10 for every physical test at the combine.

Pick 64: Western Bulldogs – Zaine Cordy

Position: Key defender
Height: 193 cm, Weight: 80 kg, DOB: 27/10/1996
Club: Geelong Falcons
Projected draft range: Fourth round father/son Selection
Plays like: Eric Mackenzie

Simply put, Zaine Cordy is a really smart, no frills defender who controls play with clean disposal and a strong marking ability. Cordy’s start to the TAC Cup season had him labelled the best utility in the competition, before school football meant he was gone for the remainder of the year. Cordy, who bodies up strongly, puts a strict leash on his opponent. Having gone toe-to-toe with Peter Wright earlier in the year, he beat him on 10 occasions, before superior ball use meant Wright eventually got the better of him. At AFL level, Cordy is probably seen as the second to third key defender. He is aggressive and swift with his ball movement by foot and by hand, repelling attacks with long raking kicks, along with possessing versatility in his role given his closing speed. He has also developed a tendency for backing himself to run off his man and create from half back, where his underrated pace and ability to evade and put boot to ball makes him tricky to stop.

http://boundforglorynews.com/paige-cardonas-phantom-draft-5-0/

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Didn't realise Paige's new phantom was up, thanks for the heads up VitalDread.

Considering three of her picks (four if you count Cordy) were the same as mine...I approve.

 

[Dav1d]

A real fan of Drummond
would be happy if we took him at one of our later picks
Drummond/Nakia Cockatoo/Connor Menadue
not so slow then

getting McLaren or Neilson in the rookie draft would also be good, have that developing KPD on the list

 

[Nath09]

Say we get Menadue - how many games do people think he's likely to play next year?