List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Prospects

[God Save Max King]

I don't hold those concerns. He wins the footy in a marking contest, quick off the mark and good below the knees. Taylor Walker and Jack Darling do alright for themselves and are similar height and build.

Walker and Darling are elite tacklers and very good when the ball hits the ground, Paddy isn't. Paddy, for mine, more the old fashioned marking forward who is played in the goal square.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Walker and Darling are elite tacklers and very good when the ball hits the ground, Paddy isn't. Paddy, for mine, more the old fashioned marking forward who is played in the goal square.

I certainly agree his second efforts need to be worked on. The skill and talent is there and so is the attitude. I have no doubt he can work on his fitness in an AFL environment.

 

[Plugger_87]

Walker and Darling are elite tacklers and very good when the ball hits the ground, Paddy isn't. Paddy, for mine, more the old fashioned marking forward who is played in the goal square.

why are we comparing 17yr olds to players in an AFL system for a few years??? Its actually quite laughable when people do this. Not many key forwards drafted have the required fitness levels to compete in the AFL hence it takes a few years for them to develop. Why not compare Paddy to Walker and Darling and any other big boy at the same age. That would give us all a much fairer assessment

 

[Persevering Saint]

why are we comparing 17yr olds to players in an AFL system for a few years??? Its actually quite laughable when people do this. Not many key forwards drafted have the required fitness levels to compete in the AFL hence it takes a few years for them to develop. Why not compare Paddy to Walker and Darling and any other big boy at the same age. That would give us all a much fairer assessment

Yep, my question would be what kind of tacklers, etc, were Darling and Walker in the year before they got drafted?

 

[Plugger_87]

Yep, my question would be what kind of tacklers, etc, were Darling and Walker in the year before they got drafted?

Not even so, are we drafting a key forward to tackle or kick goals. Yeah they need to put a little pressure on but i would take a goal kicking machine over a forward pressure tackling machine any day. I think some people are clutching at straws with Paddy his numbers stack up against all the big boys taken highly in recent drafts

 

[God Save Max King]

Not even so, are we drafting a key forward to tackle or kick goals. Yeah they need to put a little pressure on but i would take a goal kicking machine over a forward pressure tackling machine any day. I think some people are clutching at straws with Paddy his numbers stack up against all the big boys taken highly in recent drafts

Ask Ross Lyon and Paul Roos why it's important to have second efforts, with the elite defensive systems in the AFL only a few forwards manage to mark with their first efforts. There's lots of working up and back, double, triple leading and turning around players. As for tackling, the last thing I want is a liability with rebounding defenders being as damaging as they are. We need to crack down defensively at all areas.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

It's a really intriguing debate at present... do we take the bonafide best key forward, who has been compared to one of the best key forwards of modern times? Or a former undersized forward who has transformed himself into a dynamic, goal kicking midfielder? Or an athletic beast who plays half of his time in a position that we already have well covered?

I've been firmly on team #getpaddy but must admit that Petracca's performances have me wavering. My philosophy has always been to build around your bookends & take the talented talls first. The fly in the ointment here is the likelihood that at least one of the GWS talls will head home in the next 18 months....of course with no guarantee that he'll end up in RWB.

It will be an interesting 4 months til draft night!

 

[Persevering Saint]

The million dollar question with Petracca, is he doing so well merely because he's a year older than the rest of the kids he's competing against? If he finds himself playing against men next year, will he lose the key advantage that has made him so impressive this year?

 

[aussierulesrules]

The million dollar question with Petracca, is he doing so well merely because he's a year older than the rest of the kids he's competing against? If he finds himself playing against men next year, will he lose the key advantage that has made him so impressive this year?

Looking through the ages and birthdates though, most of this draft class (at least when it comes to the predicted top end of it) seem to also have an early 1996 birthdate. Brayshaw was only born a few days after Petracca, for instance. It's more when you're considering someone like Duggan who is almost 12 months younger that it would come into serious consideration I would have thought.

As for next year, I haven't seen similar huge types like Wines or Dunstan struggle with the bigger bodies of the AFL, or not be able to keep winning lots of the ball themselves, since they've joined those ranks, so I don't expect Petracca to have any issues whatsoever either. In a few years time, when his body has really matured, he will still be stronger and more powerful than most, like say a Dangerfield or Dustin Martin are.

 

[Plugger_87]

Ask Ross Lyon and Paul Roos why it's important to have second efforts, with the elite defensive systems in the AFL only a few forwards manage to mark with their first efforts. There's lots of working up and back, double, triple leading and turning around players. As for tackling, the last thing I want is a liability with rebounding defenders being as damaging as they are. We need to crack down defensively at all areas.

Which makes Paddy an even more attractive option since he's been touted as a great 1 grab mark. Theres also a good reason why both the coaches you mentioned have 1 flag between them whilst coaching for a combined 17 years. We've been down the ross lyon path and it failed. The games about putting a score on the board and winning whilst doing so. I cant remember a team being awarded a flag for tackling pressure and second efforts

 

[L_W_P]

Key forwards for premiership teams in the last decade -

2004 - Tredrea and Lade - One of the best CHF players of all time and a resting ruck

2005 - Hall and O'Loughlin - Hall was a very accurate kick for goal and a physical monster but Micky O would be a 3rd tall these days.

2006 - Hansen and Lynch - Seriously?

2007 - Mooney and N.Ablett - Mooney was above average but no doubt their midfield carried Nathan.

2008 - Roughead and Franklin - Two 2 top five picks. Both guns.

2009 - Mooney and Hawkins - Hawkins was still a baby here. Carried, like Nathan Ablett.

2010 - Cloke and Dawes - Cloke a FS pick. Dawes pretty good on his day but hasn't shown anything close to his 2010 form since.

2011 - Hawkins and Podsiadly - Pods off injured early. Hawkins a star... playing on an injured Reid.

2012 - Reid and Goodes - Goodes on one leg was lucky not to be subbed. Reid quiet.

2013 - Roughead and Franklin - Gunston the best forward on the ground as a 3rd tall.

The point im trying to make is that it's hard to make a case that top KPF carry bad teams forward. All of these teams had insane depth in their midfield which, in my opionion of course, I feel made some of these average forwards look alot better than they actually were.

The Hawks are probably the only team that you could say made it to the Grand Final on the back of their forwards. Everyone else had a top end defensive setup and a stacked midfield.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Having a tall forward is also about structure. They bring others into the game. Mooney was a quality tall. Not in the top 5 in the comp but an A grader. I would argue the only teams over the last decade to win without a quality tall were Swans '13 and the Weagles.

 

[Defacto]

How so?

i dont think he looks to have the attributes for it. doesnt look to have the tank, agility or athleticism to make it

happy to be wrong though

 

[TheLastEmperor]

i dont think he looks to have the attributes for it. doesnt look to have the tank, agility or athleticism to make it

happy to be wrong though

You don't think he will make it? With all due respect he's regarded as the most talented junior footy player in Australia by recruiters and most likely, almost certainly, the top draft pick.

 

[Defacto]

Ask Ross Lyon and Paul Roos why it's important to have second efforts, with the elite defensive systems in the AFL only a few forwards manage to mark with their first efforts. There's lots of working up and back, double, triple leading and turning around players. As for tackling, the last thing I want is a liability with rebounding defenders being as damaging as they are. We need to crack down defensively at all areas.

+1

shit even buddy is amazing with his defencive efforts

if you dont have the tank, youre not going to make it

 

[Defacto]

You don't think he will make it? With all due respect he's regarded as the most talented junior footy player in Australia by recruiters and most likely, almost certainly the top draft pick.

its just my uneducated opinion

 

[TheLastEmperor]

its just my uneducated opinion

Well if you are right buy a lottery ticket!

 

[Defacto]

Well if you are right buy a lottery ticket!

he reminds me of an old g train but without the attributes g train had that made him a very good junior player when he entered the system

doesnt seem to have the agility or tank

 

[TheLastEmperor]

he reminds me of an old g train but without the attributes g train had that made him a very good junior player when he entered the system

doesnt seem to have the agility or tank

Is his based off the two televised Vic Country games? His second efforts were appalling, I admit that but he has had an injury riddled year. His agility for a big unit is actually very good. Speed off the mark, lateral movement, below his knees, all very good.

 

[Defacto]

Is his based off the two televised Vic Country games? His second efforts were appalling, I admit that but he has had an injury riddled year. His agility for a big unit is actually very good. Speed off the mark, lateral movement, below his knees, all very good.

do you really see him kicking 2 or 3 goals on a dawson/mcpharlin type for example. one gets the hand in there when he's on the lead, the other will be better in the air. hits the ground and game over.

he doesnt look that quick off the mark either for a lead up FF

 

[TheLastEmperor]

do you really see him kicking 2 or 3 goals on a dawson/mcpharlin type for example. one gets the hand in there when he's on the lead, the other will be better in the air. hits the ground and game over.

he doesnt look that quick off the mark either for a lead up FF

Marking on the lead is his strength and not only because he has good speed off the mark. He's very good at using his big frame to protect the ball drop and is a 'dukes extended sticky fingers' mark of the footy. His marking on the lead is very similar to J Roughead.

 

[L_W_P]

Having a tall forward is also about structure. They bring others into the game. Mooney was a quality tall. Not in the top 5 in the comp but an A grader. I would argue the only teams over the last decade to win without a quality tall were Swans '13 and the Weagles.

I would argue that Mooney was made to look very good by the midfield of that Cats team.

1 talented tall appears to be enough to win a GF. I would prefer to find that tall somewhere else in the draft, not because of talent but because of the mental application of supporters, the media and players.

Some people either don't see it or can't admit it but the Riewoldt mentality is killing us right now.

If we draft McCartin he will be anointed as the next Roo. Its already started in the media. He is the 'Chosen One' and that's the end of it.

The pressure to perform will be on from day 1. We think the Tom Lee shit is annoying? Pick 1 will be worse.

There are talented talls available deeper in the draft. We can build enough of a forward line to push back up the ladder with the likes of White, Lee, Bruce and hopefully Keitel, McKenzie and Jaksch.

I won't be upset if the club deems McCartin (or Wright) the best player, but if I had to make the pick I would be taking Petracca at #1 because I believe that he can have a bigger impact in a shorter time and that in the long run he will give the club more to work with than McCartin.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

+1

shit even buddy is amazing with his defencive efforts

if you dont have the tank, youre not going to make it

Tank = fitness. If you jog along beach road every day you get a tank. Its not a physical attribute. However if you are 5' tall, you need pretty intensive surgury to get to 7' ( maybe Simpkin should go for it, its more popular than it should be in asia, they cut your leg bones and then brace them futher apart than they were originally so that you heal taller, sounds like fun ).

 

[VDS66]

Are we seriously having a debate of having at least 1 gun fwd in the team??

we would not have got to those GF's if it wasn't in a large part to Roo's efforts. You still have to kick goals.

Even having an average Kosi up there made a massive difference to our structure.

And yet most people wanted Boyd last year... go figure.

 

[Barrels]

Tank = fitness. If you jog along beach road every day you get a tank. Its not a physical attribute. However if you are 5' tall, you need pretty intensive surgury to get to 7' ( maybe Simpkin should go for it, its more popular than it should be in asia, they cut your leg bones and then brace them futher apart than they were originally so that you heal taller, sounds like fun ).