2015 - What needs to be done?

[RussellEbertHandball]

Is it worthwhile looking for an external source of advice? We are certainly missing Richardson and, although we have Walsh, perhaps another voice might be useful.

The person that comes to mind is Rick Charlesworth. Did spend time at Freo as a consultant and is arguably the most successful professional coach anywhere in any sport. His key emphasis is work rate and defensive work. He is creative and reformed hockey in Australia. He has a track record of getting the best out of people and for giving people a chance to prove their worth. All handy attributes for us at the moment.

We sent Richo to spend a week with Charlesworth in early October and learn about defensive tactics and cover space in defence. 3 weeks later St Kilda pinch him.

 

[Us against the rest]

Didn't get to watch the game, is it that bad? If i recall correctly we looked absolutely shot, in the last few rounds last year. Many were saying we were doomed heading into the finals. Didn't turn out too bad did it.

No, this was 2012 stuff, bad.

 

[Noobz0r]

As I said in the review thread, our skills are made to look even worse with nothing to kick to, which has occurred because we've been figured out. There are some shanks, there always are, but it's hard to hit a target when there aren't any because the opposition isn't being dragged into their forward half anymore.

We have a change up, or a plan B, and the ability to do something that isn't a slingshot, and our skills will look much much better.

That aside, I think our current position is indicative of our age and experience. We're 1.5 years out of a deep hole, with one of the youngest lists in the competition. Have faith, we'll get there.

 

[brad the brain]

Stories have it that Westy has been asking Ken for another tall to help out, Jay has said just that on radio. The inclusion of Mason Shaw could help up forward, take some pressure of Jay and Westy and pinch hit in Ruck to help Lobbe, who has also been down on form, his taps are going straight to the opposition. So that is three big men struggling for form, no coincidence this has all begun since the Showdown when Trengove got injured, no Trengove to help Lobbes and Westy can't play his usual role.

Ken is like my ex wife.You can't tell them anything as they know better.
Every Port Adelaide supporter that has seen any game since mid season has said we need another tall forward option but Kenny says no we don't or that we don't have one.
I remember when John Butcher made his debut a few years back.He hadn't really warranted a call up from the SANFL as his form hadn't been devastating and I was surprised when he was selected.Anyway his debut was fantastic.The thing is with better players around you with more skill at delivering the footy you might play better than in the SNAFL?
It wouldn't hurt to try with Shaw at least for a couple of games .Probably too late now as Trengove might be back this week?

 

[Port01]

Ken is like my ex wife.You can't tell them anything as they know better.

Be brave and take the game on, except at selection use the Brett Ebert forward line, and for extra points put Nick Stevens in the forward line as well to confuse the tag.

The club clearly knows more than I do but the public perception of the match committee is just that we've lacked balls and are playing Melbourne/Roos style game plans to not get blown away.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Ok, 2014 is cooked. I was going to post this in the Collingwood review originally, but I wanted to step back from that a bit and try (admittedly when the emotions are running high) and see where the list is seriously at.

List Balance

The last few weeks have shown up the clear holes in our list.

1. We need to trade for a KPF who can play from round 1 next year, simple as that. Trade a big name to get a quality one and ignore any tail wagging the dog from fans losing a favourite.
2. We need to draft or trade for a KPD that's at least 195cm.
3. We need Lycett or Gorringe. Lobbe is on a clear downward spiral from carrying everything. He's stuffed. He's about the only player I'll give excuses for.

Yep 2014 trade, free agency and drafting has to be a land of the giants first policy

Skills

We all knew when Hinkley took over our skills were sub-standard. Most here could pick that last year our skills were still a pile of poo, but our improved fitness and fight masked them against poor and average sides. This year (putting aside the emotion of the moment), they have improved on 2013, but it's clear we're still a long way off the likes of Sydney, Geelong, Hawks and Fremantle. Even when we beat the latter of those three earlier in the year, it was run, spread, fitness and fight. Not by being more skillful.

In the game now turnovers are death. We need to get rid of players with sub-standard delivery, if they aren't improving.

And we are still at least another pre-season of heavy skill work away from being able to match sides. I'd put the progression as 2011 - 2012 - Skills - VERY poor. 2013 - Skills - Poor. 2014 - Skills - Average. There needs to be a lot of skill work done pre-season if we want to challenge seriously.

Come back early 20th October and start skills training before bloody running

Strength / Size

The combination of our lists age and for the older players years of sub-standard training managed by Falloon has really being shown up the last few weeks. With teams being afraid to back themselves in against us and instead clogging things up and manning up, the size / strength, or more accurately shortfall in size / strength of our players is standing out like a sore thumb. We can't hold tackles, break tackles or fend players off like most other sides can.

With a good aerobic base now built I really hope there's an emphasis this pre-season on getting our players stronger, especially through the core (not beach muscles). In winter and in finals big bodies are required. You can have the smaller players, but only if you have enough big/strong bodies out there to get the ball and protect them. We clearly don't have enough big/strong bodied players out there yet. This pre-season I want to hear stories from the club about how the players are hurting from all the work in the weight room.

Yep find the best steroidal non banned chemical substance and tell the players to take it and pump weights - yoga - palettes etc exercises all thru the preseason to build up big cores - like our ex fitness head Andrew Russell has done at the Hawks for a decade now.

Wrap Up

These things were all there to see prior to the recent run of poo, but the cluster**** of everything going wrong at once (Lobbe no support, Trengove and Carlile down, no tall forward being played, injured players picked) has stripped away the 'but we're winning, so let's all ignore the problems' being put forward by some. By and large we can't do anything about them until post-season, but it doesn't make it any less painful to watch.

They were all obvious last October, November and December and not enough was done to fix the problems. No excuses this October, November December.

**** it up again and we will get what we deserve - more tripe.

 

[Andre]

Yep 2014 trade, free agency and drafting has to be a land of the giants first policy
They were all obvious last October, November and December and not enough was done to fix the problems. No excuses this October, November December.

**** it up again and we will get what we deserve - more tripe.

I can understand the logic of how it's progressed so far. Ken didn't have the chance to have a good look over the list the end of 2012 and contracts and the like were tied up, so it was get some players (Heath etc.) to cover glaring holes. We had so many problems with the list and the players - speed, lack of talls, fitness, strength, skills, attitude (dropping their heads) that he could have tried to part fix all of them a bit at a time or attack a couple in turn as the priority. Ken and the club have obviously taken the latter route.

2013 during games we were killed most by quick sides and speed was the obvious target in trades and drafting to address that.

Aerobic fitness was also shit. We know our nickname from some other clubs were the blowflies, as we ran out of puff by 3-quarter time. That's much quicker to fix then strength, so prioritising that made sense. It's got us back to back finals campaigns when at the end of 2012 few would have picked us as making the 8 in 2013 or being top 4 for most of 2014.

You're right though now though that the remaining glaring problems - lack of talls, skills and strength it must be addressed this trade / draft / pre-season period. Our fitness base is good, we have speed in the list. Strength and skills must be the priorities. I'm disappointed with our last few weeks, but realistically we're a half finished jigsaw puzzle at the moment. In this era jagging a 'Baby bombers' type flag is much different proposition to back when that occurred.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I can understand the logic of how it's progressed so far. Ken didn't have the chance to have a good look over the list the end of 2012 and contracts and the like were tied up, so it was get some players (Heath etc.) to cover glaring holes. We had so many problems with the list and the players - speed, lack of talls, fitness, strength, skills, attitude (dropping their heads) that he could have tried to part fix all of them a bit at a time or attack a couple in turn as the priority. Ken and the club have obviously taken the latter route.

2013 during games we were killed most by quick sides and speed was the obvious target in trades and drafting to address that.

Aerobic fitness was also shit. We know our nickname from some other clubs were the blowflies, as we ran out of puff by 3-quarter time. That's much quicker to fix then strength, so prioritising that made sense. It's got us back to back finals campaigns when at the end of 2012 few would have picked us as making the 8 in 2013 or being top 4 for most of 2014.

You're right though now though that the remaining glaring problems - lack of talls, skills and strength it must be addressed this trade / draft / pre-season period. Our fitness base is good, we have speed in the list. Strength and skills must be the priorities. I'm disappointed with our last few weeks, but realistically we're a half finished jigsaw puzzle at the moment. In this era jagging a 'Baby bombers' type flag is much different proposition to back when that occurred.

Ken had very little say in 2012 and had to use 2013 as a start and apply some bandages. But it was a disgraceful error to put Renouf to the rookie list because he had bad knee, Redden has a history of injury and say that a Matthew Lobbe who only really came good from Rd 12 2014 GWS game, are enough ruckmen on our list. Ken went for fast flankers which at least is better than Choco's soft slow poor skilled flankers, but no more in 2014.

 

[Andre]

Ken had very little say in 2012 and had to use 2013 as a start and apply some bandages. But it was a disgraceful error to put Renouf to the rookie list because he had bad knee, Redden has a history of injury and say that a Matthew Lobbe who only really came good from Rd 12 2014 GWS game, are enough ruckmen on our list. Ken went for fast flankers which at least is better than Choco's soft slow poor skilled flankers, but no more in 2014.

Yeah, the rookie list is probably the biggest stuff up from last years draft / trade period for my mind. Sam Gray as a sympathy pick up as a Magpie to appease the OneClub mentality. And Russell as well. Those two spots should have been for a project ruckman and a 195cm+ KPF or KPD with shit fitness who didn't get drafted. Would have left us with another ruck, even if very raw to help out Lobbe some games.

 

[TeeKray]

That aside, I think our current position is indicative of our age and experience. We're 1.5 years out of a deep hole, with one of the youngest lists in the competition. Have faith, we'll get there.

This. The age and experience profile of our list pretty well demands that we will improve over the next 2-3 years - how much is the only question. That's not to say everything will just fall into place and there are no problems, but there is definitely a natural improvement curve for this group of players.

Size and strength is the main thing that stands out to me in terms of areas to really target.

Like others, I'm not convinced getting a big bodied key forward or two is as simple as just going into the draft or making a trade. We've got Butcher, we've got Shaw, we've got Harvey. Play them and see what they have got to offer. Not every big guy is going to be a plug 'n play type like a Justin Westhoff, you invest time into players and reap the dividends eventually.

Strength is a much tougher proposition. There is an obvious trade off between size/strength and speed/endurance. Balance is key. This is where Burgo will earn his money and stake his reputation over the next few years.

And even though we appear to be playing poorly, it's been about a year since we lost a game by more than about 3 goals, so we must be doing something right. Tweak the fitness program, work on the skills, add a few bigger bodies, and we should be good to have a real crack at the top 4 in 2015.

 

[AdamMarrett]

I'm not ready to concede 2014 just yet to start thinking of 2015.The big thing we lack is the experience of the top 4 sides and it can't be recruited, can't be gained any other way then these youngsters playing big games and learning to deal with pressure, knowing what's required etc.Yes we need a ruckman and possibly a key forward in the off season, no question there and some players to bulk up but that will come.I am quietly confident we will beat Sydney and match Freo and have a shot at Freo I round 23 for a top 4 spot.Get that spot anything is possible, so long as the boys believe it's still possible.

 

[Long live PAFC]

We sent Richo to spend a week with Charlesworth in early October and learn about defensive tactics and cover space in defence. 3 weeks later St Kilda pinch him.

I didn't know this. Wonder if Richo thought it useful. Still definitely worth having a chat too. The guy can build a strong culture and get something out of nothing.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I didn't know this. Wonder if Richo thought it useful. Still definitely worth having a chat too. The guy can build a strong
culture and get something out of nothing.

We sent him a week before the International Hockey 9's tournament where 9 players take the field and not 11. He went to watch them train and spent a lot of time with Charlesworth discussing tactics and how defensively you use the players to cover the same space but with 2 less players. He spoke on 5aa about it and it was really interesting. They asked him if he was interested in coaching and the St Kilda rumors and he said no. Then bugger me about 18 hours later its reported he is going to interview with St Kilda.