List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Prospects

[Leviticus]

Bishop has Clark still available at 9 but Murphy going at 14. Reckons we will go Naughton!?? at 9 and Richards at 16 but Murphy if still available.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I really like Naughton but just don't see how he makes sense for us to be honest. I worry that we have too many developing key defenders that may not actually develop as they aren't afforded the opportunity to play in their primary roles. With Trengove, Adams, Cordy, Morris, Roberts, Collins, Young and possibly Naughton, something's gotta give. Meanwhile we look paper thin elsewhere.

In our system, key position players is not something you want to be overstocked in.

 

[Gollo]

For what it is worth, Twomey has both Coffield and Clark ranked as 9th and 10th best players and Richards, Murphy, L Fogarty and Bailey all ranked after 16.

Fox similarly ranks Coffield and Clark at 10th & 11th best; Murphy, L Fogarty ranked after 16, no mention of Richards or Bailey in top 25.

For the Bonar fans, Twomey and Fox both rank him later than 16th best talent.

For Higgins non-fans, he is ranked better than 9th by both and so may be gone by our picks, which should delight you.

If a lot of the AFL drafters think similarly, we should clean up with our picks.

I couldn't care less wherever players are rated by 'draft experts'. Matt Balmer I would consider to be far and away the best judge of talent - I like Twomey's journalism but I think he's a shocking analyser of talent, similarly Buckenara and basically anyone with Fox. Just because a couple of journos have Higgins rated highly doesn't mean he's going to go top 8, just as it's ridiculous to think that Bonar is going to slide to our pick at 16.

 

[doggies ftw]

Don't shoot me , but has also got a little Farren Ray about him as well ?

Farren Rays the great man I was talking about

 

[Leviticus]

I couldn't care less wherever players are rated by 'draft experts'. Matt Balmer I would consider to be far and away the best judge of talent - I like Twomey's journalism but I think he's a shocking analyser of talent, similarly Buckenara and basically anyone with Fox. Just because a couple of journos have Higgins rated highly doesn't mean he's going to go top 8, just as it's ridiculous to think that Bonar is going to slide to our pick at 16.

Gollo, who among the players that seem to be in the mix or which various pundits, media heads and other people are linking us to do you absolutely NOT want us to take at pick 9 and pick 16?

I remember you are not on the Lochie O'Brien band wagon for pick 16. Others?

 

[Dav1d]

Gollo, who among the players that seem to be in the mix or which various pundits, media heads and other people are linking us to do you absolutely NOT want us to take at pick 9 and pick 16?

I remember you are not on the Lochie O'Brien band wagon for pick 16. Others?

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-15/phantom-draft-form-guide

Might interest you to check out a phantom draft from a few years ago, see how some of the top 30 are no longer playing, some massively overrated and a few underrated.

Grain of salt & all that.

 

[Leviticus]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-15/phantom-draft-form-guide

Might interest you to check out a phantom draft from a few years ago, see how some of the top 30 are no longer playing, some massively overrated and a few underrated.

Grain of salt & all that.

Fascinating, how wrong they (Twomey in this case) can be. Ranked:#1 Tom Boyd, checkered career to date but magnificent 2016 finals series culminating in close to best on ground in Premiership team; #4 Aish, now firmly a journeyman winger; #6 Scharenberg, 14 games in 4 years. Twomey notes he has been injured, how cruel it turned out; #7 Ben Lennon, now a DFA; #10 Nathan Freeman, couldn't get on the park for injuries; #13 Cam McCarthy, career has stalled; #14 Blake Acres, journey man bench warmer; #16 Billy Hartung, now a DFA; #22 Michael Apeness, taken pick 17, now delisted after 7 games. #28 Malcolm Karpany, managed 7 games to date.

The other side of the coin, he only rated the Bont #12, Patrick Cripps #27, Zac Merrett #19, Matt Crouch #18.

Obviously a lot of guess work is involved plus the real problem of what junior league form translates into AFL form.

Thanks!!!!

 

[Gollo]

Gollo, who among the players that seem to be in the mix or which various pundits, media heads and other people are linking us to do you absolutely NOT want us to take at pick 9 and pick 16?

I remember you are not on the Lochie O'Brien band wagon for pick 16. Others?

Of the players who would be within the realm of possibility for our selections:

Pick 9: Darcy Fogarty, Brander, Higgins
Pick 16: Lochie O'Brien, Balta, Brander, Ballard if he becomes a first round chance

Most will already know my gripes with Fogarty, so I won't bother re-explaining. Brander has far too many quiet patches and makes far too many poor decisions, and his production isn't good or consistent enough to compensate for this. I also find his disposal to be slightly concerning. Higgins is in no way suited to the Dogs, currently. For someone of his size he isn't a damaging enough ball user, athletic enough or a strong enough contested ball-winner to really improve our team. Someone like Lachie Fogarty or Zac Bailey, on the other hand, easily ticks all those boxes and will absolutely be available at 16.

O'Brien is a myth in the contest. Offers nothing in a contested situation and his speed and kicking are overrated. Balta doesn't have a natural aptitude as a forward or ruck, despite his supposed versatility, and has quiet patches in games too often. Again, I struggle to see Brander actually realising his potential at AFL level, but I would be able to accept it if he slid to 16 and we took him. Ballard hasn't shown nearly enough throughout the year to go first round and the mere fact that he's 195cm and can pick up a ground ball should not mask this.

 

[Ash1337]

Higgins sounds very much like a goal kicking Caleb Daniel. He also has a very work hard attitude which should make the older players who don't train enough feel a little shameful. I would like him at 9 if coffield/Stephenson/brayshaw don't slip to us.

 

[Leviticus]

Of the players who would be within the realm of possibility for our selections:

Pick 9: Darcy Fogarty, Brander, Higgins
Pick 16: Lochie O'Brien, Balta, Brander, Ballard if he becomes a first round chance

Most will already know my gripes with Fogarty, so I won't bother re-explaining. Brander has far too many quiet patches and makes far too many poor decisions, and his production isn't good or consistent enough to compensate for this. I also find his disposal to be slightly concerning. Higgins is in no way suited to the Dogs, currently. For someone of his size he isn't a damaging enough ball user, athletic enough or a strong enough contested ball-winner to really improve our team. Someone like Lachie Fogarty or Zac Bailey, on the other hand, easily ticks all those boxes and will absolutely be available at 16.

O'Brien is a myth in the contest. Offers nothing in a contested situation and his speed and kicking are overrated. Balta doesn't have a natural aptitude as a forward or ruck, despite his supposed versatility, and has quiet patches in games too often. Again, I struggle to see Brander actually realising his potential at AFL level, but I would be able to accept it if he slid to 16 and we took him. Ballard hasn't shown nearly enough throughout the year to go first round and the mere fact that he's 195cm and can pick up a ground ball should not mask this.

Cheers. O'Brien, footage did not set the world on fire for me, there are clangers and hot potatoes enough. Brander and Balta are interesting views, I thought they looked ok (and I know I haven't followed the under 18's like you have), my reservations are whether we need to go KPP with either of our picks. I would add that I am really worried about Bonar, seems very risky, not just with the injuries. It is too easy to compare him with Stringer, a casual look reveals he is a very different player. He is probably better overhead than Stringer but he doesn't seem to keep his feet which was Stringer's key elite trait.

 

[Gollo]

Cheers. O'Brien, footage did not set the world on fire for me, there are clangers and hot potatoes enough. Brander and Balta are interesting views, I thought they looked ok (and I know I haven't followed the under 18's like you have), my reservations are whether we need to go KPP with either of our picks. I would add that I am really worried about Bonar, seems very risky, not just with the injuries. It is too easy to compare him with Stringer, a casual look reveals he is a very different player. He is probably better overhead than Stringer but he doesn't seem to keep his feet which was Stringer's key elite trait.

Bonar is a much better midfielder than Stringer, with more consistent contested ball-winning and greater capacity to play long spurts in the midfield. Bonar is quicker than Stringer, stronger, has a way, way, way, way better work ethic (look at his NM press conference at the Combine), a far better leap and doesn't appear to have real issues with his endurance. Athletically, Bonar nails Stringer.

I also don't consider Bonar to be much like Stringer at all. Bonar is a much more complete player, Stringer just had an innate capacity for the extraordinary which made him so exciting, but is an overrated trait in today's game.

 

[JAMES_B_101]

Higgins sounds very much like a goal kicking Caleb Daniel. He also has a very work hard attitude which should make the older players who don't train enough feel a little shameful. I would like him at 9 if coffield/Stephenson/brayshaw don't slip to us.

Caleb Daniel kicked more goals at u18 level than he has at AFL level. You can't really compare the two just because they are both short. I feel like what we see with Higgins is what we'll get and I haven't been super impressed in all honesty. Doesn't sound like his athletic testing was too great either despite his work ethic. Wouldn't be very enthusiastic about taking him at 9 if it were to happen.

 

[Mojorisin]

Higgins sounds very much like a goal kicking Caleb Daniel. He also has a very work hard attitude which should make the older players who don't train enough feel a little shameful. I would like him at 9 if coffield/Stephenson/brayshaw don't slip to us.

I can see it as a real possibility that higgins will win the rising star award (much like L. Taylor) his already a good player but doesnt really have the scope to become elite possibly not even great. I think he is somewhere close to his best.

 

[Metal]

Farren Ray was an outside player with outside skills rather than contested ones. Clark appears to go into the contest with relish, having great exit handballs and an ability to get out of trouble (albeit at a level where there is so much less contested crowding of the game).

What's the knock on Clark as his highlights seem to suggest he has attributes that we could use?

 

[Royal Doulton]

Of the players who would be within the realm of possibility for our selections:

Pick 9: Darcy Fogarty, Brander, Higgins
Pick 16: Lochie O'Brien, Balta, Brander, Ballard if he becomes a first round chance

Most will already know my gripes with Fogarty, so I won't bother re-explaining. Brander has far too many quiet patches and makes far too many poor decisions, and his production isn't good or consistent enough to compensate for this. I also find his disposal to be slightly concerning. Higgins is in no way suited to the Dogs, currently. For someone of his size he isn't a damaging enough ball user, athletic enough or a strong enough contested ball-winner to really improve our team. Someone like Lachie Fogarty or Zac Bailey, on the other hand, easily ticks all those boxes and will absolutely be available at 16.

O'Brien is a myth in the contest. Offers nothing in a contested situation and his speed and kicking are overrated. Balta doesn't have a natural aptitude as a forward or ruck, despite his supposed versatility, and has quiet patches in games too often. Again, I struggle to see Brander actually realising his potential at AFL level, but I would be able to accept it if he slid to 16 and we took him. Ballard hasn't shown nearly enough throughout the year to go first round and the mere fact that he's 195cm and can pick up a ground ball should not mask this.

Your take on Fogarty, Brander & Higgins will be off the mark... and I am sure Dal will be very keen.. add Bonar to that list and one of these 4 will be our Pick 9.

How can you say Higgins would not suit/improve us?
We have 2 x 200cm KPForwards... dont you think a crafty/crumbing forward pocket is a perfect complement? Plus he is a great lead up forward as well.

Brander is simply the best Kposition player in the pool..and can play either end.. his game at Kardinia park should be observed..

Fogarty has been widely held as best player at times..whilst he disnt have a great season.. his will to win..and pummel opponents puts him clearly ahead of players the ilk of coffield, murphy & stephenson.. the guy is a bull and we could do with another..

Bonar could well be considered best of the lot.. can see him lighting up etihad as a roaming mid/fwd.. his ceiling could be above them all... and into Bont type match winning status.

 

[Dog Rising]

If we were to rate tackling and elite kicking as our 2 highest priorities, who would that equate to?

 

[SCRAY72]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-15/phantom-draft-form-guide

Might interest you to check out a phantom draft from a few years ago, see how some of the top 30 are no longer playing, some massively overrated and a few underrated.

Grain of salt & all that.

Wow Lennon at 7, Bont at 12, Cripps at 27.

 

[Dav1d]

Wow Lennon at 7, Bont at 12, Cripps at 27.

Lennon did play better than Bontempelli in a lot of his games, I was a huge fan of Bontempelli back then & thought he was better than everyone in that draft. No idea Cripps would be as good as he is though. Thought he just stood out in a weak WA U18 midfield.

 

[JAMES_B_101]

Your take on Fogarty, Brander & Higgins will be off the mark... and I am sure Dal will be very keen.. add Bonar to that list and one of these 4 will be our Pick 9.

How can you say Higgins would not suit/improve us?
We have 2 x 200cm KPForwards... dont you think a crafty/crumbing forward pocket is a perfect complement? Plus he is a great lead up forward as well.

Brander is simply the best Kposition player in the pool..and can play either end.. his game at Kardinia park should be observed..

Fogarty has been widely held as best player at times..whilst he disnt have a great season.. his will to win..and pummel opponents puts him clearly ahead of players the ilk of coffield, murphy & stephenson.. the guy is a bull and we could do with another..

Bonar could well be considered best of the lot.. can see him lighting up etihad as a roaming mid/fwd.. his ceiling could be above them all... and into Bont type match winning status.

As far as small forwards go, there are far better options than Higgins in my opinion. Spargo and Daniels I like more than Higgins. Also don't think drafting a small forward in the top 10 is a great idea. Often limited players who are limited to their position If they fail there then there isn't much hope for them making it in any other spot. Higgins can play midfield but compared to others in the top 10 I don't like his midfield game much at all. Don't think he impacts games enough at all in the middle. I think we have better smalls than Higgins already so don't think he'd add anything to our squad. At best I can see him as a low impact accumulator without a great defensive game. Brander is alright but don't think we should go there. Weak KPP in this draft and one game doesn't make a season. Was a decent game but didn't do anything to suggest he's a great key position player, rather just showed he can play the game and have an impact. Is ok down back but hasn't performed well enough to deserve a top 10 selection and he definitely should have. I don't think Dal will be super interested in either at pick 9, especially not Higgins. Would be super surprised if he were a Higgins fan in fact. Would be doing a complete backflip on what has made his recent early drafting successful.

 

[JAMES_B_101]

Lennon did play better than Bontempelli in a lot of his games, I was a huge fan of Bontempelli back then & thought he was better than everyone in that draft. No idea Cripps would be as good as he is though. Thought he just stood out in a weak WA U18 midfield.

I remember Quigley wasn't a fan of Lennon at all, especially after his below average combine testing in every category. I liked him at the time but was new to draft watching so in hindsight I really don't think he was a great prospect at all. Wasn't able to watch nearly as much footage then as I am now however. Cripps was a surprise to most but Clubs always liked his leadership potential and size through the middle I feel. Did pick him up in a fantasy keeper comp that year though and it paid off. Also have to comment that I also take Twomey's rankings with a grain of salt but appreciate that he is inside inner circles and I like him as a journalist, plus he seems to have a good rapport with the players. His info is pretty reliable but his rankings are not great. I also appreciate Quigley's mock drafts (not doing one this year but is part of the bigfooty phantom still) because he isn't afraid to push the guys he rates highly up the order a lot (Parfitt and SPP last year for example) and is also not afraid to go against popular opinion on others. Isn't always right but is right quite often. Otherwise this thread is the best source of discussion IMO.

 

[dogwatch]

Farren Ray was an outside player with outside skills rather than contested ones. Clark appears to go into the contest with relish, having great exit handballs and an ability to get out of trouble (albeit at a level where there is so much less contested crowding of the game).

What's the knock on Clark as his highlights seem to suggest he has attributes that we could use?

I asked the same question for the same reason a few pages back. Here's the answer I got:

Poor decision maker.
Atrocious disposal (Dannn) or perhaps just when under pressure (CaptMurphy)

 

[Gollo]

Your take on Fogarty, Brander & Higgins will be off the mark... and I am sure Dal will be very keen.. add Bonar to that list and one of these 4 will be our Pick 9.

How can you say Higgins would not suit/improve us?
We have 2 x 200cm KPForwards... dont you think a crafty/crumbing forward pocket is a perfect complement? Plus he is a great lead up forward as well.

Brander is simply the best Kposition player in the pool..and can play either end.. his game at Kardinia park should be observed..

Fogarty has been widely held as best player at times..whilst he disnt have a great season.. his will to win..and pummel opponents puts him clearly ahead of players the ilk of coffield, murphy & stephenson.. the guy is a bull and we could do with another..

Sorry, I don't respect your opinion on Higgins, Brander and Fogarty at all as you provide the most pitiable amount of evidence to support your claims.

HIGGINS IS NOT A CRUMBING FORWARD! HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED HIM PLAY? He is a smaller marking option who runs to the right spots - he doesn't have nearly the athletic capabilities to be a genuine crumbing forward. We don't need tiny lead-up forwards who cannot defend inside 50, whatsoever.

Give me evidence to tell me that Brander is not what I think - a promising, athletic tall who has good attributes but wildly inconsistent production in-game and from game-to-game, and who struggles to dominate up forward or in defence without strong production or skills. All you have said is to watch "his game at Kardinia Park", which I already know was his best game for the year and one in which he kicked just 3 goals as a genuine key forward.

You have this idea that Fogarty has a "will to win" and that it automatically puts him ahead of Coffield, Murphy and Stephenson, and honestly, it's the most ludicrous claim I've heard on BigFooty in a long time. He has average skills, average athleticism with poor endurance and poor production, and has not been able to consistently perform in any area of the ground. Just because he's huge and can break some tackles doesn't mean he is better than a) the best kick in the draft with elite speed, b) a natural and PROPERLY VERSATILE forward with excellent overhead marking and rapid improvement and c) a high-production, improving, versatile and skilful mid/forward with elite speed once again.

 

[Royal Doulton]

Sorry, I don't respect your opinion on Higgins, Brander and Fogarty at all as you provide the most pitiable amount of evidence to support your claims.

HIGGINS IS NOT A CRUMBING FORWARD! HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED HIM PLAY? He is a smaller marking option who runs to the right spots - he doesn't have nearly the athletic capabilities to be a genuine crumbing forward. We don't need tiny lead-up forwards who cannot defend inside 50, whatsoever.

Give me evidence to tell me that Brander is not what I think - a promising, athletic tall who has good attributes but wildly inconsistent production in-game and from game-to-game, and who struggles to dominate up forward or in defence without strong production or skills. All you have said is to watch "his game at Kardinia Park", which I already know was his best game for the year and one in which he kicked just 3 goals as a genuine key forward.

You have this idea that Fogarty has a "will to win" and that it automatically puts him ahead of Coffield, Murphy and Stephenson, and honestly, it's the most ludicrous claim I've heard on BigFooty in a long time. He has average skills, average athleticism with poor endurance and poor production, and has not been able to consistently perform in any area of the ground. Just because he's huge and can break some tackles doesn't mean he is better than a) the best kick in the draft with elite speed, b) a natural and PROPERLY VERSATILE forward with excellent overhead marking and rapid improvement and c) a high-production, improving, versatile and skilful mid/forward with elite speed once again.

Higgins clearly crumbs a goal front and centre with aplomb in highlights pkg!

Brander is a better prospect than Coffield, Stephenson and Murphy... only time can prove this wrong..

Your take on Fogarty's skills is way off... he is clearly an outstanding kick.. watch the AO highlights pkg... and Buckenara rates him the best kick in the draft... think I'll take that over your view if you dont mind...

I want Bonar at 9... if he is taken, then Fogarty.. if he is taken.. then Brander..

LDU, Dow, Reynor & Cerra definately off table imo..

I would rate P.5 & beyond as follows;
Bonar
Fogarty
Brayshaw
Brander
Stephenson
Coffield
Higgins
Naughton
Murphy
Constable
Clark

 

[Royal Doulton]

Sorry, I don't respect your opinion on Higgins, Brander and Fogarty at all as you provide the most pitiable amount of evidence to support your claims.

HIGGINS IS NOT A CRUMBING FORWARD! HAVE YOU EVER WATCHED HIM PLAY? He is a smaller marking option who runs to the right spots - he doesn't have nearly the athletic capabilities to be a genuine crumbing forward. We don't need tiny lead-up forwards who cannot defend inside 50, whatsoever.

Give me evidence to tell me that Brander is not what I think - a promising, athletic tall who has good attributes but wildly inconsistent production in-game and from game-to-game, and who struggles to dominate up forward or in defence without strong production or skills. All you have said is to watch "his game at Kardinia Park", which I already know was his best game for the year and one in which he kicked just 3 goals as a genuine key forward.

You have this idea that Fogarty has a "will to win" and that it automatically puts him ahead of Coffield, Murphy and Stephenson, and honestly, it's the most ludicrous claim I've heard on BigFooty in a long time. He has average skills, average athleticism with poor endurance and poor production, and has not been able to consistently perform in any area of the ground. Just because he's huge and can break some tackles doesn't mean he is better than a) the best kick in the draft with elite speed, b) a natural and PROPERLY VERSATILE forward with excellent overhead marking and rapid improvement and c) a high-production, improving, versatile and skilful mid/forward with elite speed once again.

Looks like a crumb and snap to me...
#35.. straight through the middle..

 

[JAMES_B_101]

Higgins clearly crumbs a goal front and centre with aplomb in highlights pkg!

Brander is a better prospect than Coffield, Stephenson and Murphy... only time can prove this wrong..

Your take on Fogarty's skills is way off... he is clearly an outstanding kick.. watch the AO highlights pkg... and Buckenara rates him the best kick in the draft... think I'll take that over your view if you dont mind...

I want Bonar at 9... if he is taken, then Fogarty.. if he is taken.. then Brander..

LDU, Dow, Reynor & Cerra definately off table imo..

I would rate P.5 & beyond as follows;
Bonar
Fogarty
Brayshaw
Brander
Stephenson
Coffield
Higgins
Naughton
Murphy
Constable
Clark

I really hope you're not trying to convince people of your agenda who have watched full games with only highlights packages... I also hope you aren't saying Buckenara is a great judge of talent. Isn't he the one that rated Kieren Collins no. 2 in his draft class? Is he not also an ex-recruiter? Probably a good reason for that.