Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Benaly28]

I'm pretty sure Levi is gone one way or another.With Rowe being offered a one year deal (as mentioned by Jon Ralph)Mckay developing and Patrick Kerr as well,there is no place for Rowe in our stacked backline so logically speaking somethings got to give.Jones,Marchbank,Plowman,Weits,Asos and MCreadie when required would be our core backline group,obviously not all at the same time but there is no room for Rowe down there.Just makes sense a big body up forward to help the younger guys.We also be a lot cheaper than Levi.

 

[BlueJet]

Didn't set out to target Murphy, as much to highlight that Boekhorst isn't the only player that tends to look for the easy way out, at times.
Anyway, I feel we've over-cooked this one already.

Just feel that Boekhorst has worked harder in the past 3 months than he has before. Why? There's likely a story there in itself.

There's a significant difference between Boekhurst & Murphy,
As an aside, Kelly isn't exactly fearless & Gibbs avoids contact but is lauded for his durability, whereas Marc who has put his body on the line and suffered significant injuries as a result gets knocked for the moments of self preservation.
The better sides also have blokes who don't always embrace the physical side of the game, they just do a better job of freeing these players up from having to do a lot of the heavy lifting in contests.
All that said, I'm hoping that Boekhurst can become our Isaac Smith. [emoji106]

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[HARKER]

There's a significant difference between Boekhurst & Murphy,
As an aside, Kelly isn't exactly fearless & Gibbs avoids contact but is lauded for his durability, whereas Marc who has put his body on the line and suffered significant injuries as a result gets knocked for the moments of self preservation.
The better sides also have blokes who don't always embrace the physical side of the game, they just do a better job of freeing these players up from having to do a lot of the heavy lifting in contests.
All that said, I'm hoping that Boekhurst can become our Isaac Smith. [emoji106]

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In general, I agree with your post but will highlight two points, for discussion.

1. There should be a significant difference between the captain and a borderline player.
One's job is to lead by example and the others is to follow it, to some degrees at least.
Murphy just doesn't take players on his back and show them the way, on-field. It's just not him and it's not his fault he's captain, but then again......
Something just seemed to go askew through that whole period of us appointing our captain, after Judd relinquished it.
I have my own theories, but it just seemed that not everything went to plan.

2. Boekhorst won't be our Isaac Smith. I feel that will be Williamson.......if we need the comparisons.
Boekhorst hasn't done his 'potential' career any favours. He had the ability to push things further than for where they currently sit.

 

[katmanblue]

Goldy? Waite?

We should be into Ben Browns ear. He is out of contract next year. Would be a perfect fit for us.

Would also cost half of what Lynch would.

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[katmanblue]

Still don't think he will be far off. My guess is around 10-12. In the Gun

Graham Boekhurst Gorringe Smedts Thomas Jaksch Armfield Sumner Palmer plus Casboult & Maybe Gibbs off the main list

Korcheck Gallucci Sheehan & G-Mac off the Rookie List

As I have said it will depend a lot on what happens during Trade Week and whether we want to pay off some small contracts.


PS Just on Pure Footy, Daisy Thomas has been rated "poor" by Champion Data. Apparently lowest you can have based on Stats and effectiveness

Chapion Data also rated Collingwood the best midfield at the start of the season.

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[Dramoth]

That's your problem right there. There is no god... unless you are talking about Ablett senior.

Boekhorst's future is in some hack country town where the annual competition is to hurl the skinny guy over a boundary fence instead of a discus. Longest throw wins a can of fosters and a date with their own mum.

Is that speaking from personal experience about the hurl the skinny guy over the fence? Because it seems that you are well versed in the rewards.

 

[Arr0w]

I can't believe people are contemplating giving Boekhorst another year, based on 3 run-of-the-mill games. I would rather free up a spot and select a kid that could grow into a better footballer, or take the likes of a 19 year old Bailey Banfield, who was strangely not selected last year and has been playing some very good football in WA

Boekhorst is not up to AFL standard, despite showing some glimpses. He is and will always be a nervous footballer, it's time to move forward

 

[Rarely Rong]

10000-1 we will get a pp

1-10 Boekhorst is offered a contract (or part of a trade that benefits us)

 

[Metalcrusher]

Off with his head!

 

[Rarely Rong]

10000-1 we will get a pp

1-10 Boekhorst is offered a contract (or part of a trade that benefits us)

Sorry I meant Boek will be at Carlton. I like the kid.

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Is that speaking from personal experience about the hurl the skinny guy over the fence? Because it seems that you are well versed in the rewards.

Don't you talk about my mum... i mean wife like that!

 

[ferrisb]

How many AFL games has he played in order to put together a credible body of work? Crikey, I think I just defended Boekhorst.

Where's Mebby's flying pig (bat thing) when you need it....?

 

[BlueRenaissance]

The thing you don't seem to realise is that boekhorst has shown more in those 3 games. than you would expect ANY player picked up after 50-60 in this draft.

Why pick up a player who is a 0.1% chance to make it when you have a player on your list that's a 1% chance to make it? Obviously chance of them making it is subjective, but if he can play like he did against hawthorn going forward. he's a best 22 player in our current team, and even going forward would be. why throw that away when you've got so much other deadwood.. and someone picked up at pick 120 in this years draft is less likely to show the traits of an AFL footballer than boekhorst has.

Opportunity cost of keeping him is so incredibly low it's not worth throwing him away.

Opportunity cost is great. Economics much.

The thing you don't counter-realise is that we cant delist anyone based on your theory. Graham has played 3 good AFL games..so too has D Buckley, so too has Kerridge, Palmer (not for us), Armfield, and White. In the past, we have had sooo many that can put together 2-4 games of form but cant sustain it. Remember Duigan, he put three good games together. Boek is in the same division as K Lucas but yes, has him covered just.

We can still trade for mature players that offer more than him. I dont even want Mcveigh at all, but if you said Mcveigh or Boek; I'd take Mveigh for one more year which is all we would offer Boek anyway. In another year it is Murphy, Williamson and SPS on the wings plus a new kid/trade. Boek will be surplus again.

Some here have fallen for his ruse of a couple of good games in desperation of being unemployed.

 

[OldCarltonKnows]

I can't believe people are contemplating giving Boekhorst another year, based on 3 run-of-the-mill games. I would rather free up a spot and select a kid that could grow into a better footballer, or take the likes of a 19 year old Bailey Banfield, who was strangely not selected last year and has been playing some very good football in WA

Boekhorst is not up to AFL standard, despite showing some glimpses. He is and will always be a nervous footballer, it's time to move forward

"3 run if the mill games" and "select a kid that could grow into a better footballer"...do you watch our games live much or just pass comment? Seriously. Boekhorsts last 3 games have been more than run if the mill. He may be no 200 gamer but what you or anyone else cant deny is he has talent. Sure it's up to him going forward to keep producing but he's not a total spud and delisting him is pointless. And for what a fourth round pick...

 

[katmanblue]

Didn't set out to target Murphy, as much to highlight that Boekhorst isn't the only player that tends to look for the easy way out, at times.
Anyway, I feel we've over-cooked this one already.

Just feel that Boekhorst has worked harder in the past 3 months than he has before. Why? There's likely a story there in itself.

I think you are discounting the effect our development and coaching staff have had. I think you will find that most players getting a game have improved this year.

So, yes, I agree that impending delisting has probably provided extra motivation but I feel like Boek has started to understand what is required and has responded well to coaching and direction.

 

[DamianBis]

The thing you don't counter-realise is that we cant delist anyone based on your theory. Graham has played 3 good AFL games..so too has D Buckley, so too has Kerridge, Palmer (not for us), Armfield, and White. In the past, we have had sooo many that can put together 2-4 games of form but cant sustain it. Remember Duigan, he put three good games together. Boek is in the same division as K Lucas but yes, has him covered just.

You're looking at it from the wrong way. you need to rank your players from worst to best (taking into account potential). and then delist the bottom the very most 10 in a very good draft because you won't get AFL quality talent that late.

Why delist boekhorst, when based off of what he's shown he's already got more upside to him than Buckley, Jacksh, Sumner, Palmer, Graham, Gorringe, White, Galluci, Korchek & Smedts.

Whoever we pick up with our last rookie pick (regardless of whether boekhorst plays on or not) is less likely to be in our team going forward than boekhorst.

 

[katmanblue]

I would rather free up a spot and select a kid that could grow into a better footballer

With which pick?

I understand wanting to delist him, but there are players well ahead of Boek to be delisted. So it comes down to the probability of getting anyone with more upside in round 4 or 5. It may not be ideal, but I'd rather have him on the list than someone like KJ.

 

[Arr0w]

"3 run if the mill games" and "select a kid that could grow into a better footballer"...do you watch our games live much or just pass comment? Seriously. Boekhorsts last 3 games have been more than run if the mill. He may be no 200 gamer but what you or anyone else cant deny is he has talent. Sure it's up to him going forward to keep producing but he's not a total spud and delisting him is pointless. And for what a fourth round pick...

I have never disputed that he is talented, unfortunately his body of work should not be viewed as just 3 games, he is been on the list for 3 years. We didn't draft him as an 18 year old, he is 24.

Luke Ryan was a 4th rounder and there are others just like him in the lower leagues

Williamson is a 4th rounder, who would you rather have?

 

[F_therest]

I can't believe people are contemplating giving Boekhorst another year, based on 3 run-of-the-mill games. I would rather free up a spot and select a kid that could grow into a better footballer, or take the likes of a 19 year old Bailey Banfield, who was strangely not selected last year and has been playing some very good football in WA

Boekhorst is not up to AFL standard, despite showing some glimpses. He is and will always be a nervous footballer, it's time to move forward

Except his last few games in particular he didn't show nerves and he didn't just show glimpses...he put together very good games.

 

[HARKER]

I think you are discounting the effect our development and coaching staff have had. I think you will find that most players getting a game have improved this year.

So, yes, I agree that impending delisting has probably provided extra motivation but I feel like Boek has started to understand what is required and has responded well to coaching and direction.

Not discounting anything at all and some drive and direction would obviously have had to come from our coaches.
The days of 'every man for himself' are gone.

If you invest in a player, you have to lend all of the clubs resources to him.
I can't qualify this, but I understand that Boekhorst has been left unloved at times.
I've said it here many times before, but we won't get the best of this group until SOS and Bolton own them.

 

[F_therest]

I have never disputed that he is talented, unfortunately his body of work should not be viewed as just 3 games, he is been on the list for 3 years. We didn't draft him as an 18 year old, he is 24.

Luke Ryan was a 4th rounder and there are others just like him in the lower leagues

Williamson is a 4th rounder, who would you rather have?

Silly argument.

Jones has also been on our list for 3 years and in the AFL for longer than that.
Just because we got Williamson as a 4th rounder doesn't mean we will always have that kind of success in the 4th round.

Also, and i've said this before, the type of player Boekhorst is means he would play better when we have a better midfield and play a faster game style...which we have been the last few games. No coincidence they've been his best it suits his style, along with Pickett, SPS & Fisher.

 

[Arr0w]

Except his last few games in particular he didn't show nerves and he didn't just show glimpses...he put together very good games.

I will admit he did some good things, but he just isn't up to it, he still dances around his own shadow. Do you really think he will push past the kids we have on the list when they are all up and running, let alone what we trade/draft in this year?

We will have enough guys for depth

 

[Arr0w]

Silly argument.

Jones has also been on our list for 3 years and in the AFL for longer than that.
Just because we got Williamson as a 4th rounder doesn't mean we will always have that kind of success in the 4th round.

Also, and i've said this before, the type of player Boekhorst is means he would play better when we have a better midfield and play a faster game style...which we have been the last few games. No coincidence they've been his best it suits his style, along with Pickett, SPS & Fisher.

I respect your thoughts, I just see things differently.

 

[My name geoff]

In general, I agree with your post but will highlight two points, for discussion.

1. There should be a significant difference between the captain and a borderline player.
One's job is to lead by example and the others is to follow it, to some degrees at least.
Murphy just doesn't take players on his back and show them the way, on-field. It's just not him and it's not his fault he's captain, but then again......
Something just seemed to go askew through that whole period of us appointing our captain, after Judd relinquished it.
I have my own theories, but it just seemed that not everything went to plan.

2. Boekhorst won't be our Isaac Smith. I feel that will be Williamson.......if we need the comparisons.
Boekhorst hasn't done his 'potential' career any favours. He had the ability to push things further than for where they currently sit.

The players vote for the captain

 

[My name geoff]

I can't believe people are contemplating giving Boekhorst another year, based on 3 run-of-the-mill games. I would rather free up a spot and select a kid that could grow into a better footballer, or take the likes of a 19 year old Bailey Banfield, who was strangely not selected last year and has been playing some very good football in WA

Boekhorst is not up to AFL standard, despite showing some glimpses. He is and will always be a nervous footballer, it's time to move forward

Everything goes well for Boekhorst on the field until something goes wrong