Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Arr0w]

Im certain he will for kelly

Might be a 1st rounder involved, just might not be our 1st pick

 

[Wily trout]

Might be a 1st rounder involved, just might not be our 1st pick

Reckon pick one for Kelly and a salary dump might be enough. Charlie seems to now have overtaken Cas, so Cas compo for Hopper or Smith. With Gibbs trade seeing us with strong presence in the first and second or on trading the two Gibbs picks for better first round pick. This is the pointy end of the 66 game rebuild. I have upmost faith in SOS and whatever it is that he is planning to do.

 

[Arr0w]

Reckon pick one for Kelly and a salary dump might be enough. Charlie seems to now have overtaken Cas, so Cas compo for Hopper or Smith. With Gibbs trade seeing us with strong presence in the first and second or on trading the two Gibbs picks for better first round pick. This is the pointy end of the 66 game rebuild. I have upmost faith in SOS and whatever it is that he is planning to do.

I see the end of the 66 game rebuild at the end of trade/draft period 2018, we need patience

 

[1981]

How to improve the midfield is a massive question.

Kelly for Gibbs is an incremental improvement only, by virtue of an age gain. But we'd have to use just about all equity gained from trading Gibbs, if not more to seal the deal. I just don't see this as a big enough gain given we already don't have a second round pick. Maybe we trade Gibbs for 2 picks in the teens and give GWS the best of these two picks plus pick 2 for Kelly. So we lose Gibbs and gain Kelly and say pick 18. And our next pick is 35 in a shallow draft. That's hardly a quantum improvement.

We need 6 good mids inserted into this list in 2 off season. By my calculations.

Maybe we are better off trading Gibbs as previously suggested, giving GWS the better of the two picks - say 14 - for Hopper, then taking a good mid at 2 and hopefully snaring anothet good mid with say 18.

I should add right now I'm not sure we can let go of Levi, certainly not for a so so pick in a shallow draft. He would thrive in a top side.

You see clearly we need to add cover for Cripps so Hopper is that.

I just think, with no second rounder I'm not sure we can afford the luxury of burning two high picks for Kelly. As good as he is.

Because we need DEPTH. Especially with MM and BG nearing the end / possibly being traded out.

So how do we get the six mids we need???

 

[1981]

Let's put it this way, how do we get a NETT gain of three quality young mids??? (actually given Gibbs' age , one of the three I suppose needn't have to be young so maybe that brings FA into play??)

 

[choo]

Bolton: "We need to keep building our depth, particularly in the midfield. The depth is good in defence and our forwards are young and raw."
Never a truer word

 

[Juddernaut08]

I have it on good authority we're going to be recruiting a couple of tall defenders and a couple of small mids
Plus a deal for a gws 'almost', but must take another with a salary dump also

Rcks in their head if true. Doubt it though.

 

[Wickzki]

Let's put it this way, how do we get a NETT gain of three quality young mids???

For Carlton to compete for premierships in 2020 onwards...

• A combination of two of the following this year: Kelly, Hopper, Whitfield, our 1st round pick (Rayner / LUD)
• 2019 FA pick up: Dylan Shiel
• Any midfield draft picks we add to the list

It's for this reason I wouldn't mind seeing what we could acquire in trade for Gibbs and Murphy this year. If you could net a combination of 3 first round draft picks (plus anything else of value), including one from 2018, then I'd do it every day of the week. This means potentially moving them for the above listed assets.

People who would question "but what does that do to the culture of the club if you gut it of its veteran leadership?" would be misconceived. I say we likely have Simpson (2018), Daisy (-19), ASOS (-20), Kreuzer (-20), Ed Curnow (-2021) and Matthew Wright (-2021) as your veteran leaders in 2018. It's not "pulling a Melbourne."

By the time 2020 rolls around our young guns will be ready to lead the club themselves.

 

[My name geoff]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Charlie Curnow is currently 9th in the comp for contested marks this year. (8th highest out of forwards)

Taken more contested plucks than the likes of Josh Kennedy, Tom Lynch, Hawkins, Jack Reiwoldt, Taylor Walker, Buddy, Daniher, Cameron

Unbelievable for a 20 y.o forward who only really broke out around round 6 this year and stands at 194cm.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Charlie Curnow is currently 9th in the comp for contested marks this year. (8th highest out of forwards)

Taken more contested plucks than the likes of Josh Kennedy, Tom Lynch, Hawkins, Jack Reiwoldt, Taylor Walker, Buddy, Daniher, Cameron

Unbelievable for a 20 y.o forward who only really broke out around round 6 this year and stands at 194cm.

It's tremendous progress.

Was in the 20s or 30s only 3 or 4 weeks ago.
Has played 6 consistent games in a row now where he's taken contested grabs, kicked a goal or two and gathered the ball 15 or so times.

Also worth noting that essentially every marking opportunity for our forwards is contested due to our horrendous skills and turtle-speed going inside 50, thus the opportunities are abundant.

Nonetheless, taking down 4 contested marks in a game ain't easy!

 

[Mr_Plow]

List managers hate him! See how SOS built the foundations for a sustainable successful team in 3 easy trades:

1. Tom Bell and a 2nd round pick for the draft rights to Charlie Curnow

2. Henderson for the draft rights to Harry McKay

3. Tuohy and a 2nd round pick for Marchbank and Pickett (latter will come in time...)


With honourable mentions to pick 28 for Plowman.

 

[Red Bull]

Gibbs > Crows 2017 1st and 2nd rounder (17&35) ?
Casboult > FA compo band 3 (19) ?
19 > Hopper
Our 3rd rounder (36) ? > Saad
Our 4th rounder (54) ? + (Boekhorst if Freo want him) > Balic
Our 6th or 7th rounder (whatever we don't use) > Tippett , we pay 300k of his contract with Swans paying the balance .
Take picks 1 , 17 , 35 to the draft .
Out : Gibbs , Casboult , 36 , 54 , our 6th or 7th
In : Hopper , Saad , Balic , Tippett , 1 , 17 , 35 .

 

[katmanblue]

Gibbs > Crows 2017 1st and 2nd rounder (17&35) ?
Casboult > FA compo band 3 (19) ?
19 > Hopper
Our 3rd rounder (36) ? > Saad
Our 4th rounder (54) ? + (Boekhorst if Freo want him) > Balic
Our 6th or 7th rounder (whatever we don't use) > Tippett , we pay 300k of his contract with Swans paying the balance .
Take picks 1 , 17 , 35 to the draft .
Out : Gibbs , Casboult , 36 , 54 , our 6th or 7th
In : Hopper , Saad , Balic , Tippett , 1 , 17 , 35 .

If Cas only gets 4x500k then that is not even band 3. So looking at 3rd round as compensation. Which isnt enough.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Big Red is back]

If Cas only gets 4x500k then that is not even band 3. So looking at 3rd round as compensation. Which isnt enough.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

Contested marking beast - 500k way unders - will be huge pick up for top 8 side

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Top six sides bar Richmond wouldn't touch casboult

 

[Big Red is back]

Reckon pick one for Kelly and a salary dump might be enough. Charlie seems to now have overtaken Cas, so Cas compo for Hopper or Smith. With Gibbs trade seeing us with strong presence in the first and second or on trading the two Gibbs picks for better first round pick. This is the pointy end of the 66 game rebuild. I have upmost faith in SOS and whatever it is that he is planning to do.

Don't bank Gibbs trade yet - for starters if crows win flag they will have no interest

 

[therubbernub]

I am not underestimating the influence having casboult in the forward line has on the ability of Charlie to play as he has and also Harry. Take Levi away and you have two key forwards struggling. You cannot replace levi with Weitering either. So be careful what we wish for if we try to get rid of Levi for unders

 

[big_sav]

Ok so see how this looks:
Casboult F/Ato richmond: gain pick 21
Gibbs plus 3rd rounder to adelaide: gain pick 17(2017) and adelaide 2018 first rounder
Give pick 1/2 to gws for kelly
Give pick 17 to gws for hopper
We may need to take a salary dump for this too happen
Would like to trade the pick 21 and adelaides 2018 pick for something earlier in Draft. Even possibly trading our 2018 first rounder to get back into this years. Draft midfielders too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Iamcarlton]

I am not underestimating the influence having casboult in the forward line has on the ability of Charlie to play as he has and also Harry. Take Levi away and you have two key forwards struggling. You cannot replace levi with Weitering either. So be careful what we wish for if we try to get rid of Levi for unders

Surely if the AFL indicate as they apparently do what compo Levi would get for us if its anything outside pick 25 we must up our contract offer to him ? To lose him atm for a pick 30 or so would be catastrophic .

 

[AB_Blue]

If we lose Cas who plays as the big bodied forward

McKay is still way 2 raw.
Charlie is a jet but needs help

 

[katmanblue]

Contested marking beast - 500k way unders - will be huge pick up for top 8 side

Its the the 4 years thats the issue for us

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[FairKouta]

The big positive is our spine is there the backs and the forwards. Atleast Big H is mobile has a classy finish reckon he loves the big stage. Our game plan is slow chipping it around going down the line too often but this will change next year and keep evolving. Sadly simmo might be past it but reckon he gets another year. Depending on who we get lamb and kerridge get 1 more year. The rest I am not so sure about.

We will now load on the midfield and they develop quicker. I know we have to be patient but shit i hate that henderson bloke.

Touhy i loved still do didn't look all that happy after the win was quite sober.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Worth remembering that Casboult thrives in our system because all our forwards get access to is contested marking opportunities.

How will he fare when he has to create his own space and be useful in the transition game with fast and precise ball movement?

I'd rather not but whatever, offer him 500x2 with tough incentives for a 3rd and let it play out.

 

[Jimmae]

If we lose Cas who plays as the big bodied forward

McKay is still way 2 raw.
Charlie is a jet but needs help

The pick we're set to get back is going to be a huge win. We've extracted everything we can out of Levi, who is a tactical basket case.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

If Cas only gets 4x500k then that is not even band 3. So looking at 3rd round as compensation. Which isnt enough.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

2x500k (1mil) for Vickery = band 3.
Even with the increase in TPP, 4x500k (2mil) for Casboult should easily trigger band 3