Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Benaly28]

GWS won't say "we want two first rounders" and then meekly accept 12 + 18.

Pick 2 will be the starting point. They'll want 18 as well, will probably offer some junk picks or players to sweeten the deal, but we'll hold firm on Pick 2 only, with maybe a swap of late picks (which would be a face-saving for GWS only as they probably won't need the extra picks/points anyway).

If we get 18 for Casboult, I'd be pushing 2 + 18 for Kelly and Hopper. Then take whatever we get for Gibbs to the draft, or trade it for Whitfield/Sicily and whatever else we can get.

Casboult compo - Pick 18.
Gibbs traded for Pick 10.

Picks 2 + 18 for Kelly + Hopper.

Pick 10 for Whitfield.
OR Pick 10 + 2018 Second for Sicily + 2018 First.
OR Pick 10 to the draft.

All sounds good.Hopefully we keep Gibbs as well.

 

[HARKER]

I'd swap Casboult/Pick 18 for Sicily in a heartbeat. Make no mistake that kid can play, even though he throws the odd tanty (which I happen to like as he shows passion for the game). I think he played better last year than this year but he'll be a champion no doubt. WANT!!

Hawks open contract talks with feisty defender.

No way known would we offer up that pick for Sicily, but we're unlikely to be in the position to do so, anyway.

 

[therubbernub]

That's what I said, isn't it?

Pick 2 and some junk pick swaps for Kelly.
Or Picks 2 + 18 for Kelly and Hopper.

Yep. Sorry i misread what followed

 

[BlueTongue]

Seems to be a bit like Jones in that he has turned his game around as a defender. In that case is he what we need?

Not sure why he was moved to defense as he kicked 30 goals last year and seems to put himself in the right spot often enough. Maybe his footskills and ability to read the play are why he was moved as the Hawks needed more drive.

 

[Blue__Balls]

If Dow has a good turn of pacy he isn't anything like Sidebottom who is as one paced as they come.

Very rare to find an exact equivalent for any player in the comp. Dow may be a touch quicker off the mark than Sidebottom, but he seems to me a similar style player. Good vision, clever by hand and foot, quick decision making, gains ground then draws contact as he gives off.

The last is probably the trait that stands out most. Someone like Cripps rides the contact which can be punished by a good tackle, Murphy tends to give off early to minimise contact which can make him look rushed. Sidebottom, and from my viewing, Dow, seem to have an ability to retain possession til the very last second before dishing off to a teammate, which usually gives that teammate plenty of space to work in.

Just my opinion though.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Where's the onus on Hawthorn to actually follow up though? Not like SOS can complain to the AFL if Hawthorn renege on some shady, behind closed doors promise.

The only thing he could do would be to refuse to deal with them at some point. Best case scenario we'd be saying no to a deal we don't like anyway, worst case is we're cutting off our nose just to spite them if we knock back a deal that we actually like.

If SOS wanted more from Hawthorn, he'd have been better off getting payment up front.

Some clubs deal with each other much more easily than others and have a good relationship when it comes to trade period . Id think from what weve seen SOS is a good operator and is building good relationships with other clubs . Geelong and Sydney have always been reasonable when it comes to trade period i think Hawthorn is another . Essendon on the other hand we know are usually unrealistic in their demands . Wouldnt be in the best interest of clubs to screw sos over he may be around for a long time .

 

[Blue__Balls]

All sounds good.Hopefully we keep Gibbs as well.

If Gibbs requests a trade again I think we have to pull the trigger.

End of 2018 he's a free agent. Sure the compensation could be really good (Band 1, potential for an extra top 5 pick), but if we lose him at the end of next year as a free agent then our hands are tied in regards to bringing in another free agent ourselves (ie. Lynch or Gaff) because we'd nix our own compo.

Gibbs for a pick around 10 (give or take depending on what Adelaide can actually get their hands on) this year should be the expectation.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Where would you play him,forward or back?

I thought he showed plenty last year as a forward although obviously a little inconsistent . Hawthorn playing him back this year may actually make him a better forward if they switched him back there in future . So given our needs and if Casboult left he would play forward for us imo .

 

[BlueTongue]

Where would you play him,forward or back?

Forward IMHO. Was pretty handy in front of goals last year, and can hold his nerve converting.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

GWS won't say "we want two first rounders" and then meekly accept 12 + 18.

Pick 2 will be the starting point. They'll want 18 as well, will probably offer some junk picks or players to sweeten the deal, but we'll hold firm on Pick 2 only, with maybe a swap of late picks (which would be a face-saving for GWS only as they probably won't need the extra picks/points anyway).

If we get 18 for Casboult, I'd be pushing 2 + 18 for Kelly and Hopper. Then take whatever we get for Gibbs to the draft, or trade it for Whitfield/Sicily and whatever else we can get.

Casboult compo - Pick 18.
Gibbs traded for Pick 10.

Picks 2 + 18 for Kelly + Hopper.

Pick 10 for Whitfield.
OR Pick 10 + 2018 Second for Sicily + 2018 First.
OR Pick 10 to the draft.

If we have picks 2,10 and 18 I would eat my hat if we could keep pick 10 while getting Hopper and Kelly. The only possible way that would happen is if we trade our future second which I would be happy to do. (Especially if we think BSOS will be a mid to late first rounder)

 

[Arr0w]

If Gibbs requests a trade again I think we have to pull the trigger.

End of 2018 he's a free agent. Sure the compensation could be really good (Band 1, potential for an extra top 5 pick), but if we lose him at the end of next year as a free agent then our hands are tied in regards to bringing in another free agent ourselves (ie. Lynch or Gaff) because we'd nix our own compo.

Gibbs for a pick around 10 (give or take depending on what Adelaide can actually get their hands on) this year should be the expectation.

FA end of 2019

 

[BlueTongue]

If Gibbs requests a trade again I think we have to pull the trigger.

End of 2018 he's a free agent. Sure the compensation could be really good (Band 1, potential for an extra top 5 pick), but if we lose him at the end of next year as a free agent then our hands are tied in regards to bringing in another free agent ourselves (ie. Lynch or Gaff) because we'd nix our own compo.

Gibbs for a pick around 10 (give or take depending on what Adelaide can actually get their hands on) this year should be the expectation.

We should settle for Pick 10 (if offered) this year after rejecting Pick 13 last year.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

If Gibbs requests a trade again I think we have to pull the trigger.

End of 2018 he's a free agent. Sure the compensation could be really good (Band 1, potential for an extra top 5 pick), but if we lose him at the end of next year as a free agent then our hands are tied in regards to bringing in another free agent ourselves (ie. Lynch or Gaff) because we'd nix our own compo.

Gibbs for a pick around 10 (give or take depending on what Adelaide can actually get their hands on) this year should be the expectation.

Think hes locked into a contract with us until the end of 2019. Could be wrong though

 

[Azul]

Not sure why he was moved to defense as he kicked 30 goals last year and seems to put himself in the right spot often enough.

Clarkson saw him as a one trick pony? Versatility is a good thing and the ability to play at both ends will be handy in negotiating a new contract.

 

[Aphrodite]

Think hes locked into a contract with us until the end of 2019. Could be wrong though

Correct.

 

[Blue__Balls]

FA end of 2019

Think hes locked into a contract with us until the end of 2019. Could be wrong though

Correct - I seem to have travelled forward in time 12 months.

Good news guys, we get Kelly, Hopper, Lynch and Gaff. Gibbs wins the Brownlow in navy blue.

(Revised opinion, we're good to keep Gibbs for another year if push comes to shove. I'd still accept a pick around 10 if it was on offer though.)

 

[Stig O'Hara]

So, all going as it is, we finish last, get a Priority Pick, trade Gibbs & lose Cas as a FA, we have 4 picks in the top 20 by Monday 9.01am of Tradeapollooza.

Yeah?

 

[Jimthegreat]

GWS won't say "we want two first rounders" and then meekly accept 12 + 18.

Pick 2 will be the starting point. They'll want 18 as well, will probably offer some junk picks or players to sweeten the deal, but we'll hold firm on Pick 2 only, with maybe a swap of late picks (which would be a face-saving for GWS only as they probably won't need the extra picks/points anyway).

If we get 18 for Casboult, I'd be pushing 2 + 18 for Kelly and Hopper. Then take whatever we get for Gibbs to the draft, or trade it for Whitfield/Sicily and whatever else we can get.

Casboult compo - Pick 18.
Gibbs traded for Pick 10.

Picks 2 + 18 for Kelly + Hopper.

Pick 10 for Whitfield.
OR Pick 10 + 2018 Second for Sicily + 2018 First.
OR Pick 10 to the draft.

Carlton are dead confident of Gibbs staying and I doubt Adelaide will cough up the required two first rounders for him.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Carlton are dead confident of Gibbs staying and I doubt Adelaide will cough up the required two first rounders for him.

Means nothing. Its all to keep the wolves at bay. Gibbs hasn't said he has changed his mind so id suggest he will want to leave again. And why wouldnt he?!?
Premiership and home v spoon...

We will get a top 12 pick for him plus change and run.

 

[DangerousD]

Why is everyone trying to come up with over night fixes? We aren't winning the flag next year!

How is targeting a 22yo a quick fix?

 

[Soapy V]

So, all going as it is, we finish last, get a Priority Pick, trade Gibbs & lose Cas as a FA, we have 4 picks in the top 20 by Monday 9.01am of Tradeapollooza.

Yeah?

Plus Kelly Hopper Balic Saad Redpath etc

 

[juzza316]

Gibbs will be 29 next year, but reckon he has the body and game style (not crash and bash, clearly) to play until he is 33-34 easily. Will be interesting to see if Lever and McGovern go and whether that gives them the picks they need for Gibbs (and how much they want to spend on him, pick wise).

 

[rampar]

Carlton are dead confident of Gibbs staying and I doubt Adelaide will cough up the required two first rounders for him.

Those first rounders will be late rubbish picks anyway. It's unders IMO.

 

[Old navy]

GWS won't say "we want two first rounders" and then meekly accept 12 + 18.

Pick 2 will be the starting point. They'll want 18 as well, will probably offer some junk picks or players to sweeten the deal, but we'll hold firm on Pick 2 only, with maybe a swap of late picks (which would be a face-saving for GWS only as they probably won't need the extra picks/points anyway).

If we get 18 for Casboult, I'd be pushing 2 + 18 for Kelly and Hopper. Then take whatever we get for Gibbs to the draft, or trade it for Whitfield/Sicily and whatever else we can get.

Casboult compo - Pick 18.
Gibbs traded for Pick 10.

Picks 2 + 18 for Kelly + Hopper.

Pick 10 for Whitfield.
OR Pick 10 + 2018 Second for Sicily + 2018 First.
OR Pick 10 to the draft.

It probably needs to be something like pick 8 and 18, may be another late pick or swap of picks.
SOS won't want to give up pick 1 or 2 easily, Kelly's definitely worth it, but if he nominates us, then we really do hold all the cards.

 

[Azul]

Will be interesting to see if Lever and McGovern go and whether that gives them the picks they need for Gibbs (and how much they want to spend on him, pick wise).

No way is Gibbs worth more than Lever. One has 200 games ahead of him.

McGovern I don't know too much about but certainly wouldn't attract West Coast's first rounder.