List Mgmt. 2017 Starting 22 | + Trimming the "fat"

[Hazelsnuts]

Getgaff can go get fisted. - By Dawson.
Alex Pearce is a walk up - no way Collins gets a gig over him when fit, I'd even put the Logue bull in instead just to get games and awareness into the young fella.
Hope Bennell can prove the continued talk about him wrong.
Jon Griff had shown a bit of ticker so far this pre-season, I thought he was gone - glad to be proved wrong.
Spurr -meh, slow decision making, good short kick but an average leg over 30m.
Crozier - agree with you there - would be better there in my opinion after what we saw last year.

 

[getgaff]

Touchy subject

Getgaff can go get fisted. - By Dawson.
Alex Pearce is a walk up - no way Collins gets a gig over him when fit, I'd even put the Logue bull in instead just to get games and awareness into the young fella.
Hope Bennell can prove the continued talk about him wrong.
Jon Griff had shown a bit of ticker so far this pre-season, I thought he was gone - glad to be proved wrong.
Spurr -meh, slow decision making, good short kick but an average leg over 30m.
Crozier - agree with you there - would be better there in my opinion after what we saw last year.

Thanks for the feedback Haze.

What's your thoughts about Balic as a best 22? To early, or a good opportunity for him with Ballantyne out indefinitely?

 

[theGav56]

Touchy subject


Thanks for the feedback Haze.

What's your thoughts about Balic as a best 22? To early, or a good opportunity for him with Ballantyne out indefinitely?

Typically Lyon would have him play a few wafl games before being an IN.

I don't see him and Blakely in the forward line as ideal. There would need to be some strategic thinking, but I guess Balic on the bench with Langdon forward is an easy solution.

 

[tonygeeks]

Won't be the best available against the Cats on Sunday but here is my thoughts on the Dockers strongest 22 for 2017 excluding Ballantyne due to a longer term injury.

BACKS: Lee Spurr ~ Sam Collins ~ Hayden Crozier
HALF BACKS: Michael Johnson ~ Joel Hamling ~ Tom Sheridan

CENTRE: Brad Hill ~ David Mundy ~ Stephen Hill
FOLLOWERS: Aaron Sandilands ~ Nathan Fyfe ~ Lachie Neale

HALF FORWARDS: Ed Langdon ~ Shane Kersten ~ Lachie Weller
FULL FORWARDS: Jonathan Griffin/ Michael Apeness ~ Cam McCarthy ~ Michael Walters

INTERCHANGE: Darcy Tucker ~ Connor Blakely ~ Harley Balic/ Hayden Ballantyne ~ Alex Pearce/ Garrick Ibbotson/ Cameron Sutcliffe



Jon Griffin in a fortunate position where Apeness are out injured. I had Apeness as best 22 more regularly in 2017 with the idea to keep pumping games into him and persisting with him because his a big boy ho when played deep won't get moved off the footy easily.

Harley Balic - Has the skills, just needs the opportunity to present itself. Ballantyne injury is that small opening he needs.

Harley Bennell - Talent to burn, would be a top 5 player at the club when fully fit but can't get his body right. Speculation about his dedication to rehab is still there.

Alex Pearce - can be argued that with him there's one to many talls and with smaller/ versatile guys like Ibbotson, Suban and Sutcliffe in the stands he might make way. Will be eased into it but from an outsiders perspective I think the best tall defence combo is Hamling, Collins and Alex Pearce.

Seems pretty accurate , if we don't play at least 1 quality ball user down back though we will be as constipated on the counter as last year


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gungho]

Thought I'd have another go at best 22 after an incredible season defining game by the kids. The two assumptions here is that Harley Bennell and Alex Pearce will finally get fit. The other strange one is that Taberner will be the back up ruck and forward ahead of Kersten. In my opinion, Michael Johnson not best 22 anymore. Just reckon, for a number of reasons, that his time has passed. Apart from Sandi Mundy and Spur, this is actually a pretty darn young and fast team, or am I getting ahead of myself?

Freo Best 22 2017
Spur. Hamling. Logue
Tucker A Pearce Sheridan.
B Hill Mundy S Hill.
Bennell McCarthy B Grey.
Walters Taberner Crozier.

Ruck. Sandi, Fyfe Neale.

Interchange: Collins, Weller, Blakely, Langdon.

 

[theGav56]

Seems a bit silly having Collins in ahead of MJ and Ibbotson. His lack of versatility makes him a poor interchange option too. If you are going left field like that would look more to the likes of Ryan, Nyhuis, Duman.

Taberner over Apeness? Unconvinced.

 

[gungho]

Seems a bit silly having Collins in ahead of MJ and Ibbotson. His lack of versatility makes him a poor interchange option too. If you are going left field like that would look more to the likes of Ryan, Nyhuis, Duman.

Taberner over Apeness? Unconvinced.

Collins hasn't really played enough AFL games for any of us, (including Dockers coaches) to know his true versatility. We would all be guessing. When he plays 50-80 AFL games we might have more of an idea. I watched the replay of the Bulldogs game and thought Michael Johnson played really well in the second half - better than I remembered, so was probably a bit hasty leaving him out of this team, but he's just got to that age where he's getting injured a lot, and if you watch him closely, he's not moving freely at all.

 

[theGav56]

Collins hasn't really played enough AFL games for any of us, (including Dockers coaches) to know his true versatility. We would all be guessing. When he plays 50-80 AFL games we might have more of an idea. I watched the replay of the Bulldogs game and thought Michael Johnson played really well in the second half - better than I remembered, so was probably a bit hasty leaving him out of this team, but he's just got to that age where he's getting injured a lot, and if you watch him closely, he's not moving freely at all.

Going with a best 22 containing 4 key defenders is my main issue. Nothing about Collins screams versatility to me, and if that is what you are looking for I think we have much better options.

 

[gungho]

Going with a best 22 containing 4 key defenders is my main issue. Nothing about Collins screams versatility to me, and if that is what you are looking for I think we have much better options.

I'm not trying to be funny but there is 3 key position defenders in my 22. Pearce, Hamling and Collins. i wouldn't call Logue or Spur a key position defender.

 

[heavho]

I like your 22 gung-ho I think kersten And Ballantyne might need to be squished in there somewhere though but it's hard to take someone out of that team going on what we have seen Maybe bennell if he doesn't recover from his latest setback or tabs if he doesn't perform at afl level etc

 

[wayToGo_]

I'm not trying to be funny but there is 3 key position defenders in my 22. Pearce, Hamling and Collins. i wouldn't call Logue or Spur a key position defender.

Logue has to become a KPD if he is playing in defence - it's a waste of his versatility and strengths if he isn't imo. I'd even be questioning if just APearce, Hamling and Logue is too clunky in the backline as both Pearce or Hamling rely a fair bit on others to move the ball. I think Logue has to become our future MJ - a key defender that can intercept, can run the ball and is highly capable of rebounding.

Our Best Backline in Early 2015 - don't think we lost a game with this setup, nor even when APearce was there instead of McPharlin.

B Spurr McPharlin Duffield
HB Ibbotson Johnson CPearce

As soon as you add a 3rd KPD in place of one of those non-KPD players it loses a heap of dynamism. It might have been ok pre 2015 but forward lines are way too mobile to play too many KPDs now. We may as well add Dawson back if we are going to play Collins, APearce, Hamling and Logue all at the same time.

 

[yakamoto]

Wouldn't be astonished if Pearce A became our best bet as a key forward. we seem to have enough options in defence without him.

 

[heavho]

Logue has to become a KPD if he is playing in defence - it's a waste of his versatility and strengths if he isn't imo. I'd even be questioning if just APearce, Hamling and Logue is too clunky in the backline as both Pearce or Hamling rely a fair bit on others to move the ball. I think Logue has to become our future MJ - a key defender that can intercept, can run the ball and is highly capable of rebounding.

Our Best Backline in Early 2015 - don't think we lost a game with this setup, nor even when APearce was there instead of McPharlin.

B Spurr McPharlin Duffield
HB Ibbotson Johnson CPearce

As soon as you add a 3rd KPD in place of one of those non-KPD players it loses a heap of dynamism. It might have been ok pre 2015 but forward lines are way too mobile to play too many KPDs now. We may as well add Dawson back if we are going to play Collins, APearce, Hamling and Logue all at the same time.

Your right but it all depends on match ups. For example this is how Adelaide set up their forwards
Adelaide forwards

Freo backs for example
Logue. A Pearce. Tucker

Spurr Hamling. Weller

 

[heavho]

Wouldn't be astonished if Pearce A became our best bet as a key forward. we seem to have enough options in defence without him.

He has the potential to be a great swing man

 

[wayToGo_]

Your right but it all depends on match ups. For example this is how Adelaide set up their forwards
Adelaide forwards
View attachment 356735
Freo backs for example
Logue. A Pearce. Tucker

Spurr Hamling. Weller

Yeah I don't mind that line up against tall forward lines too much (Adelaide is one of the biggest isn't it?) but you've effectively replaced Ibbo with Logue, as Ibbo took the 3rd tall in 2015. Ibbo is currently a fair bit more attacking than Logue, and MJ a heap more than Hamling, so you are losing a fair bit of rebound comparatively. I'd argue you could play Logue as the 2nd KPD role, and then add an Ibbo versatile type to take the 3rd tall and you'd have similar rebound ability to that 2015 back line without giving up much defensively. The key is forgetting this stupid concept that you can only match up on a 190cm+ guy with a guy the same height or taller. Despite being maligned at times Ibbo has done a superb job over the years on guys far taller than him.

 

[sonnywalters]

Fun fact:
The much maligned Danyle Pearce is actually a gun.
Ranked 8th all time for I50s

http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players.html#a9

 

[Purple Jesus]

Fun fact:
The much maligned Danyle Pearce is actually a gun.
Ranked 8th all time for I50s

http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players.html#a9

Quality > quantity

 

[meima]

Fun fact:
The much maligned Danyle Pearce is actually a gun.
Ranked 8th all time for I50s

http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players.html#a9

I agree , he is actually pretty good . Do your club want him ? his experience might help you win a flag , with nick a legend of marking the ball inside 50 for st kilda. D.pearce + suban = late first round or early second rd pick .
Fun fact , you know you want to do a deal .

 

[Righteo]

Fun fact:
The much maligned Danyle Pearce is actually a gun.

I think we might disagree on what constitutes a fact. Nobody has ever disputed that he gets a lot of inside 50's, it's what he does with them that is the issue. If he was a "gun" he wouldn't currently be on the outer.

 

[blue shark]

So what have we learned so far? Griffen, Dawson, D Pearce, Suban, even Ballas all could be gone next year, will
struggle to be best 22 in 2018.
Sutcliffe and Sherro, don't need both, one will suffice, Sutcliffe ahead for now.
Tabs, Balic have shown enough to be included in our future plans.
All four mature age recruits have been a success.
Have to say the team is looking better the longer the season goes, and the changes after losses seem to add not
subtract, we are now getting off the merry go round.

 

[Kunna17]

Interested in this now, do we go back to more youth again?
Hopefully by the end of the year each of the bolded have at least got a few games, and underlines have cemented a spot for this season.
FB - Crozier(Nyhuis), Hamling, Ryan
HB - Weller, Johnson (Collins), Tucker
C - B.Hill, Neale, S.Hill
HF - Walters, Fyfe, Bennell
FF - McCarthy, Tabs, Grey (DeLuca)
FOL - Sandi(Darcy), Blakely, Mundy
INT - Langdon, Kersten, Hughes, Balic(Logue)(Cox)

Most prevalent Changes really are a lot of the older guys come out (D.Pearce, Sutcliffe, Sheridan, Ballas, Spurr, Ibbo) types, and a few younger guys get extra goes in a few different areas.

I would love to see each of the smalls in my Forward line spending midfield time, with Fyfe/Mundy/Neale/B.Hill/Weller/Crozier/Langdon, all swining forward at times. I think we should be giving guys like Crozier/Weller a role off half back, but spending little burst periods on the ball and forward to add versatility and class to other areas of the ground.
Tucker I really liked off Half-back, but he reeks of class and should also get small stints through the midfield.
Wouldn't be opposed to seeing Walters have short stints off half-back as I feel his almost 'arrogance' with the ball could be match winning, he backs himself to pull off kicks that others wouldn't.

Overall I think we need to go even more extreme with the Mundy/Fyfe/Neale forward tactic, and allow every player capable to run through multiple positions for small periods of the game, as it may lose us a couple of games but will add plenty of versatility and unpredictability in the future, as well as keep legs fresh for big last quarters.

I also would not be opposed to resting Sandi every 4/5 weeks, regardless of his health, so he can stay home with family rather than travel, and Darcy gets a bit of experience, + our midfield is introduced to the possibility of playing without an armchair ride all the time.

Kersten, Tabs and McCarthy each have a fair way to go as individuals, and even further as a trio, but they are our best options and Kersten+McCarthy have benefitted hugely from Tabs spot in the team. Fyfe would obviously play a lot of midfield as well, but could benefit from going forward a bit with more of a license to take the game on this year, as he seems to be doubting himself more than he does at his best.

 

[M_rash]

Bit of a bump here. What are people's thoughts on future (2-3yrs time) B22. Make a team with only currently listed players, then make one with only your locks and leave placeholders for positions needing players to either prove themselves or for recruitment needs.

Here's my crack (assumes no injuries):

Existing players only
Nyhuis - Hamling - Logue
Ryan - AP - Croz
BHill - Fyfe - Weller
Walters - Kersten - Bennell
McCarthy - Apeness - Langdon
Darcy - Neale - SHill

Blakely - Tucker - Cox - Balic

Missing out: Tabs, Collins, Hughes, Grey, deluca

With placeholders (PH)
PH - Hamling - PH
Ryan - AP - Croz
BHill - Fyfe - Weller
Walters - PH - Bennell
McCarthy - PH - PH
Darcy - Neale - SHill

Blakely - Tucker - Logue - Carter (academy)

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Bit of a bump here. What are people's thoughts on future (2-3yrs time) B22. Make a team with only currently listed players, then make one with only your locks and leave placeholders for positions needing players to either prove themselves or for recruitment needs.

With placeholders (PH)
PH - Hamling - PH
Ryan - AP - Croz
BHill - Fyfe - Weller
Walters - PH - Bennell
McCarthy - PH - PH
Darcy - Neale - SHill

Blakely - Tucker - Logue - Carter (academy)

I think this is probably a bit more realistic . Here's mine from the other thread with ages. Bold those I'm less confident on.

Ryan(23)-A.Pearce(24)-Hughes(25)
Weller(23)-Hamling(26)-Crozier(26)
S.Hill(29)-Fyfe(28)-B.Hill(26)
Langdon(23)-Taberner(26)-Walters(28)
Grey(24)-McCarthy(24)-Kersten(26)

Blakley(23) Neale(26)

Sheridan(26) Tucker(22)

Complete wildcards:
Logue(21)
Darcy(21)
Balic(22)
Bennell(27)
Cox(21)
Collins(25)
Nyhuis(23)
Deluca(23)

The depth of decent players is there assuming we hold on to the majority of our Vic kids, which is really ******* critical for us now. It's the positional need that are the question marks (KPF, Ruck, HBF).

 

[M_rash]

I think this is probably a bit more realistic . Here's mine from the other thread with ages. Bold those I'm less confident on.

Ryan(23)-A.Pearce(24)-Hughes(25)
Weller(23)-Hamling(26)-Crozier(26)
S.Hill(29)-Fyfe(28)-B.Hill(26)
Langdon(23)-Taberner(26)-Walters(28)
Grey(24)-McCarthy(24)-Kersten(26)

Blakley(23) Neale(26)

Sheridan(26) Tucker(22)

Complete wildcards:
Logue(21)
Darcy(21)
Balic(22)
Bennell(27)
Cox(21)
Collins(25)
Nyhuis(23)
Deluca(23)

The depth of decent players is there assuming we hold on to the majority of our Vic kids, which is really ******* critical for us now. It's the positional need that are the question marks (KPF, Ruck, HBF).

You're missing your ruck (on purpose?). Presumably Darcy joins Blakely and Neale there.

Very similar core team to the one I posted (a few positional swaps). The majority of our pieces are in place, just need a few genuine small/mid defenders who can also rebound (Carter?) and more KPF fire power. I think we are also desperate for a goal kicking small forward. I just don't think grey/deluca/Langdon are going to be capable of 30-40 goals per year, but haven't seen enough of them in this role at AFL level.

 

[Unique Name]

*Lock
*Wait and See
*Needed

Nyhuis - Hamling - Logue
Weller - A Pearce - Ryan
B Hill - Neale - S Hill
Walters - Ruck/Fwd - Bennell
McCarthy - Full Fwd - SmlFwd

Darcy - Fyfe - Blakely

Tucker - Hughes - Crozier - ????


- Hopefully Luke Ryan plays the remainder of the season and we get a good indication of what he offers.

- Bennell is a massive wildcard. We know he's an A grader but can he get on the park.

- I still haven't given up on Crozier, think he should be shifted to the backline.

- The ruck/fwd spot is currently a fight between Apeness and Tabs. Apeness can't get on the park and Tabs is inconsistent. If a good/cheap option presents itself take it but otherwise trust that one of Ape/Tabs/Strnadica can come on. No point in taking average players to fill this role (Stanley,etc) not worth giving something up for someone who would perform around Tabs/Apeness' level. I'm still in the Tabs can come good/consistent camp (purple/tabs glasses )

- We need our next inside mid to start being developed. Tucker/Hughes maybe but I think we need to be drafting an an inside mid this year.

- With Walters working higher up the ground we have missed that goal kicking small forward (The Ballas of yesteryear). We need more goal kickers!

- We need a full forward who can take the best defender, be the spearhead of our forward line and average 2-3 goals a game. McCarthy and Kersten are 3rd talls/2nd talls at best. Can Mitch McGovern be that guy? he's 1cm shorter than Pav, a better contested marker but not as reliable lining up for a set shot. His speed and forward pressure would be an asset but would he be able to cope as the number 1 target. Really I think Mitch would be better suited to a 2nd/3rd tall role but beggers can't be choosers.

-I think our 1st rounder this year needs to go on drafting the best full forward we can get in the draft. If we want Mitch McGovern we need to use our 2018 1st rounder or get creative with something else.