2017 Trade and FA thread

[morsie]

Although the Channel 7 commentators were ridiculous it was very instructive listening to Hodge coach his defence on the field.Talk about micro management.We have nothing like that.Whilst our backs and forwards are young and full of promise its very hard to learn in a vacuum..No matter how good the coaches are , onfield leadership all ov er the ground is essential.
Perhaps we can try the GWS model with the runner i.e.Nick Maxwell in their case coaching on the field until the AFL cracks down.

 

[M Malice]

Oh my, that is really terrible reading. Im really nervous that we will go backwards again once zorko, rocky, beams, martin hit 30+ together, we have no one cooming through in the geberation under them and the next wave still wont be ready to take over. That period of poor drafting / mid ladder finishes / compromised drafts really nuked that generation on our list.

Also the Go Home 5 ie. Jared Polec (24), Sam Docherty and Elliott Yeo turn 24 before the end of the year. Even Billy Longer at 24 and coming into his prime as a ruckman would come in handy.

 

[morsie]

St Kilda the other night was a classic case.Great tap by Ryder but with proper positioning and direction from senior players Gray does not have a clear path to goal and the Saints more than likely win.No easy answers but I would be up for buying a bit of leadership .Agree elite not spuds.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Also the Go Home 5 ie. Jared Polec (24), Sam Docherty and Elliott Yeo turn 24 before the end of the year. Even Billy Longer at 24 and coming into his prime as a ruckman would come in handy.

Though if we had kept them we wouldn't have Taylor McStay Robertson etc

 

[jjami15]

Oh my, that is really terrible reading. Im really nervous that we will go backwards again once zorko, rocky, beams, martin hit 30+ together, we have no one cooming through in the geberation under them and the next wave still wont be ready to take over. That period of poor drafting / mid ladder finishes / compromised drafts really nuked that generation on our list.

I personally am not too phased by their departures in four or so years mainly because I can see the young talent that we do have on our list. The club would be very aware of our age profile and feel that with the draft being the main focus for the next two that the club are going to be quite aggressive in the market. I believe this is evident with the contracts that our current crop are bring given such as Rocky who is supposedly being offered under what he was previously on. Of course if we get to their departures and we are unable to bring in some more mature players then I will be worried.

I don't think the notion of buying leadership is going to fix our issues. The development of leadership within the club is a focus now and can see this continuing but I do like the acquisition of Lewis to Melbourne and hope that when we get the midfield and small forwards from the draft/s completed that one or two mature leader types will be brought in at this time.

 

[lioninthesand]

I personally am not too phased by their departures in four or so years mainly because I can see the young talent that we do have on our list. The club would be very aware of our age profile and feel that with the draft being the main focus for the next two that the club are going to be quite aggressive in the market. I believe this is evident with the contracts that our current crop are bring given such as Rocky who is supposedly being offered under what he was previously on. Of course if we get to their departures and we are unable to bring in some more mature players then I will be worried.

I don't think the notion of buying leadership is going to fix our issues. The development of leadership within the club is a focus now and can see this continuing but I do like the acquisition of Lewis to Melbourne and hope that when we get the midfield and small forwards from the draft/s completed that one or two mature leader types will be brought in at this time.

I agree mate, on almost all points and I am not suggesting we buy leadership. Our young talent is great, couldn't be better. We are lacking that next wave of leaders in that age bracket prescribed though, once our current senior core start to age, there is a huge gap down to 21-22 year old range of talent, who will be our 200 games vets in 4 years time? We need good, experienced players to carry us forward. When we had adcock, merrett, brown and co.. we had zorko, rich, redden, rocky coming through amd they are now our senior core.. we have literally no one under these guys now. Its an issue IMO, clugg and berry wont be ready to carry the club in 3 years time.. I dont want to go the plus 30 year old thing, but if we can jag a couple of talented players in that age range, ill be happy.

 

[Fatcat08]

Though if we had kept them we wouldn't have Taylor McStay Robertson etc

I'd take the Polec, Yeo, Docherty trio in a heartbeat to be honest. What will quite possibly be two first time all australians and a long running wingman with a great kick would be an upgrade.

 

[a mayes ing]

I'd take the Polec, Yeo, Docherty trio in a heartbeat to be honest. What will quite possibly be two first time all australians and a long running wingman with a great kick would be an upgrade.

Yeah, I don't know the exact trades but I would keep McStay. Although if memory serves, I think it was Longer who gave us Robbo and McStay, if so perfect deal for us. Only Longer and Karnezis were busts, the other 3 are very good.

 

[blueiris]

Yeah, I don't know the exact trades but I would keep McStay. Although if memory serves, I think it was Longer who gave us Robbo and McStay, if so perfect deal for us. Only Longer and Karnezis were busts, the other 3 are very good.

Longer got us McStay and West
Docherty got us Cutler
Yeo got us Taylor
Polec got us Gardiner and Robinson
Karnezis got us Paine
I'm happy with all of those expect Paine

 

[lioninthesand]

Longer got us McStay and West
Docherty got us Cutler
Yeo got us Taylor
Polec got us Gardiner and Robinson
Karnezis got us Paine
I'm happy with all of those expect Paine

Won with McStay
Lost with Taylor
Lost with Gards and Robbo
Broke even with Payne

 

[cubansombrero]

Won with McStay
Lost with Taylor
Lost with Gards and Robbo
Broke even with Payne

Would take Gardiner and Robertson over Polec, who is a good player but somewhat of a downhill skier, otherwise I agree. Docherty for Cutler was the biggest loss, although imo he was the member of the go home 5 most likely to leave regardless of the Lions "culture" so we probably always would have gotten unders for him.

 

[a mayes ing]

Longer got us McStay and West
Docherty got us Cutler
Yeo got us Taylor
Polec got us Gardiner and Robinson
Karnezis got us Paine
I'm happy with all of those expect Paine

I would rather: Docherty, Yeo, Polec. McStay and West were wins for us tho imo. Karnezis was a bust for both teams

 

[Fatcat08]

Longer got us McStay and West
Docherty got us Cutler
Yeo got us Taylor
Polec got us Gardiner and Robinson
Karnezis got us Paine
I'm happy with all of those expect Paine

That's actually a bit simplistic given we also gave up some picks in those trades that were in positions to grab at least one of those guys.

 

[lioninthesand]

Would take Gardiner and Robertson over Polec, who is a good player but somewhat of a downhill skier, otherwise I agree. Docherty for Cutler was the biggest loss, although imo he was the member of the go home 5 most likely to leave regardless of the Lions "culture" so we probably always would have gotten unders for him.

Yeah overall I am 'happy' with how we flipped each deal, but we didn't come out winners, talent wise.

I prefer the character of the new guys, much more down to earth, the others were 'me me me' types.. the new batch are the reason our culture is turning.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

Yeah overall I am 'happy' with how we flipped each deal, but we didn't come out winners, talent wise.

I prefer the character of the new guys, much more down to earth, the others were 'me me me' types.. the new batch are the reason our culture is turning.

Completely agree. Proof is in the pudding, they have all stuck around

 

[Fitzroy bears]

No use in looking back anyway. We spent enough time on these guys when they were going, when they left and stewing over the trade inadequacies. Time to move on. We have a great bunch kids on our list and will most certainly add to that this year. The guys we got in return as lioninthesand said may not be the most talented but they have great character. The only way is up for our club.

 

[winged1]

Yep it was 2013 those guys left, we have reset and it is time for the club and supporter Base to stop pointing at it as the source of all our woes.

We had issues before they all left and some of those still exist (training base).

But as a whole we are a lot stronger and the key positions have been filled. We are a better (and younger) side than we have been for the last couple of years. We are positioned to take a step off the bottom next year, how big a step we take will rely on a bit of luck. But one thing we can be confident of is that we CAN develop the players now.

With the move to less restrictions on free agency the onus will be how well the club is run at a particular point in time. For the first time in a long long time I feel we are being well run.

We are always going to suffer a geographical disadvantage, that's life. Nothing we can do about it except develop the local juniors and make the academy the source of the majority of our draftees. This will take years, but is the best long term solution for us.

In short there is no point looking to the past and bitching about it, yes we can learn from the plethora of mistakes made in recruitment and welfare and coaching and venues etc.. But the only way forward is looking to the future and our future prospects don't look that bad.

 

[M Malice]

Yep it was 2013 those guys left, we have reset and it is time for the club and supporter Base to stop pointing at it as the source of all our woes.

We had issues before they all left and some of those still exist (training base).

But as a whole we are a lot stronger and the key positions have been filled. We are a better (and younger) side than we have been for the last couple of years. We are positioned to take a step off the bottom next year, how big a step we take will rely on a bit of luck. But one thing we can be confident of is that we CAN develop the players now.

With the move to less restrictions on free agency the onus will be how well the club is run at a particular point in time. For the first time in a long long time I feel we are being well run.

We are always going to suffer a geographical disadvantage, that's life. Nothing we can do about it except develop the local juniors and make the academy the source of the majority of our draftees. This will take years, but is the best long term solution for us.

In short there is no point looking to the past and bitching about it, yes we can learn from the plethora of mistakes made in recruitment and welfare and coaching and venues etc.. But the only way forward is looking to the future and our future prospects don't look that bad.

Great points, with the academy though, IMO if at any point in the future we start getting the majority of our players from there (particularly if they are possible future elite players ie. Harris and Eric) the Melbourne clubs will kick up such a stink that the academies will be taken over by the AFL or the discounts will be massively reduced or wiped altogether.

 

[Forward We Go]

Yep it was 2013 those guys left, we have reset and it is time for the club and supporter Base to stop pointing at it as the source of all our woes.

We had issues before they all left and some of those still exist (training base).

But as a whole we are a lot stronger and the key positions have been filled. We are a better (and younger) side than we have been for the last couple of years. We are positioned to take a step off the bottom next year, how big a step we take will rely on a bit of luck. But one thing we can be confident of is that we CAN develop the players now.

With the move to less restrictions on free agency the onus will be how well the club is run at a particular point in time. For the first time in a long long time I feel we are being well run.

We are always going to suffer a geographical disadvantage, that's life. Nothing we can do about it except develop the local juniors and make the academy the source of the majority of our draftees. This will take years, but is the best long term solution for us.

In short there is no point looking to the past and bitching about it, yes we can learn from the plethora of mistakes made in recruitment and welfare and coaching and venues etc.. But the only way forward is looking to the future and our future prospects don't look that bad.

I hear what you say Winged and agree with most of what you say. However, just because we produce a small % AFL standard players out of QLD doesn't solve our problems with building a successful list. For me, professional administration/coach's/facilities/culture have more to do with having players all over the country who want to come play for us. That's the key. If you look at Melbourne Storm in the NRL, how many local players out of Melbourne do they have listed yet are one of the most respected, successful clubs in the competition. Everything they do is professional. The % of players who would not consider playing for them is extremely low compared to other clubs. Duplicate that & we are going to be in the top half of the competition for many years because players will WANT to come play for the Lions. (unlike what's happened in recent times.)

 

[winged1]

Great points, with the academy though, IMO if at any point in the future we start getting the majority of our players from there (particularly if they are possible future elite players ie. Harris and Eric) the Melbourne clubs will kick up such a stink that the academies will be taken over by the AFL or the discounts will be massively reduced or wiped altogether.

But they are developing their own academies and cherry picking talent. Developing the qld junior leagues is the only way forward.

Mt footy playing kids are Div 1 and while there is certainly some talent there, a lot of kids can't do the basics. To me the basics include handballing without thinking off the non preferred and being able to get a reasonable kick off the non preferred side. The majority can't or won't do it. Especially girls footy, the better players really stand out.

So it's not just playing it is coaching and skills Dev still needs a lot of work.

 

[winged1]

I hear what you say Winged and agree with most of what you say. However, just because we produce a small % AFL standard players out of QLD doesn't solve our problems with building a successful list. For me, professional administration/coach's/facilities/culture have more to do with having players all over the country who want to come play for us. That's the key. If you look at Melbourne Storm in the NRL, how many local players out of Melbourne do they have listed yet are one of the most respected, successful clubs in the competition. Everything they do is professional. The % of players who would not consider playing for them is extremely low compared to other clubs. Duplicate that & we are going to be in the top half of the competition for many years because players will WANT to come play for the Lions. (unlike what's happened in recent times.)

You are sort of backing up my points.

Nrl - no draft, there is total free agency and players move even mid season.

Melbourne has been able to stay at the top because their key positions have all been quality. Hooker, halves, full back. The rest are blunt instruments to varying degrees.

But I think the back end appointments for us are solid now. The culture has improved, the kids seem to want to stick together.

In this new world I think clubs will improve or decline quicker than they have in the past. For the first time since Ireland left I think we are coming back on track.

 

[Dalions]

Great points, with the academy though, IMO if at any point in the future we start getting the majority of our players from there (particularly if they are possible future elite players ie. Harris and Eric) the Melbourne clubs will kick up such a stink that the academies will be taken over by the AFL or the discounts will be massively reduced or wiped altogether.

I think that when we become successful again as a club. The quality of talent to come through the Academy will rise as a result of more kids wanting to stick with Afl in Qld. And be almost guaranteed to be a part of a successful club and stay in their home state.
It might take some time but we will get there. But a full 'buy in' by the southern boys is what will take us forward over the next 5 yrs. After that we may get some real quality through the academy.

 

[winged1]

I think that when we become successful again as a club. The quality of talent to come through the Academy will rise as a result of more kids wanting to stick with Afl in Qld. And be almost guaranteed to be a part of a successful club and stay in their home state.
It might take some time but we will get there. But a full 'buy in' by the southern boys is what will take us forward over the next 5 yrs. After that we may get some real quality through the academy.

95% of kids who get drafted to the AFL are from a private school. Staggering but true.

Our public school system is based around union. At BBC if you are a prefect you are attend all rugby games, i expect it is the same at other schools. We do lose promising juniors to union. Not a ton of them but enough.

There is no strong school comp up here in the private schools. To me this is a point that needs to be addressed, but you are pushing against 100 years of history. It won't be easy.

Girls participation numbers are up, but there was a drop off a bit into the season. Some strong clubs got dropped back divisions.

And this comment will be popular...

Part of this is because they have pushed hard for women to be the coaches many of whom have never played. Skills Dev is appalling and needs to be addressed for the girls. It is not they can't do it or learn it, it just isn't taught well enough.

 

[briztoon]

Great points, with the academy though, IMO if at any point in the future we start getting the majority of our players from there (particularly if they are possible future elite players ie. Harris and Eric) the Melbourne clubs will kick up such a stink that the academies will be taken over by the AFL or the discounts will be massively reduced or wiped altogether.

As long as the Next Generation academies and Father Son picks exists, the discounts will stay.

 

[Forward We Go]

Great points, with the academy though, IMO if at any point in the future we start getting the majority of our players from there (particularly if they are possible future elite players ie. Harris and Eric) the Melbourne clubs will kick up such a stink that the academies will be taken over by the AFL or the discounts will be massively reduced or wiped altogether.

IMO, we will never be self sufficient with local players on our list and we will always have a small % of locally produced players. Its just not that popular up here. The academy is great but will never provide us with a list any greater than 15-20% I think.