Remove this Banner Ad

2018 Draft thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter dlanod
  • Start date Start date
  • Tagged users Tagged users None

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

The issue for the 2m forward is that he can dominate through a little bit of talent and the congestion rules. People get caught up in the stats and ignore all that.

You almost have to treat them like a ruckman and be prepared to wait 5-6 years for them to really make their mark.
Schache a prime example. Never liked him that much as a junior (at least not to the extent of others!) nor was I overly excited from his stats in the U18 champs. People need to actually watch how these blokes operate as a whole. Some aspects can be fixed relatively quickly (strength) while other aspects will come along in years if not at all (desire to impact contests). Other things are extremely difficult to quantify such as the 'feel' for the game... you can just see how someone is doing the small almost unnoticeable things with their body that gives them a slight edge. Even down to the position of their feet and angles of the hip to knee to ankle when under pressure/getting tackled which gives certain players an advantage. Check out Oliver and his positioning.
 
All I'm saying is the next John Coleman will be taken at pick 15 because of the current reluctance to actually assess their talent and not cloud it with they are tall and dominating the shrimps/rules etc.
The same John Coleman who was 6’1? Buddy wasn’t taken at 15, In the 2015 draft 3 tall forwards were taken top 10, with another couple taken before 15.

Talented players will get taken early like they always have been.

If you don’t think the clubs and scouts assess actual talent then what do you think they do?
 
The issue for the 2m forward is that he can dominate through a little bit of talent and the congestion rules. People get caught up in the stats and ignore all that.

Yeah, it's almost like people rate potential draftees without ever really watching them play.
 
Yeah, it's almost like people rate potential draftees without ever really watching them play.

There's no great expertise involved in watching someone live and assessing them over the course of an entire game or games - anyone can do that.

What really requires skill is to work out a draftee's career and development path on the basis of a 2 minute YouTube clip - that's greatness.
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

I think the Schache situation combined with the anti-congestion rules in junior footy are definitely things that will naturally always be at the forefront of recruiters’ minds with KPP prospects, especially ones that happen to have a significant size advantage for their age.

If we drafted Max King, I’d be pretty excited but I can’t deny there would be a significant “shit, I hope this isn’t another case of a man-child being found out at the next level” factor in my mind.
 
I don't seek to compare TAC Cup players - I'm not qualified. I just say what I see. And becuase I am there principally to photograph play rather than just watch it, I can miss things that others are focussed on like defensive running, positioning, etc. I leave all that stuff to the experts. But you do see a lot that the videos do not show. And on the King boys, all the comments are valid about their height advantage, the fact that they are further advantaged by the anti-congestion rule, etc. but at the same time, who's to say they might not be the next BIG thing (excuse the pun) and might not have an immediate impact at AFL level? Maybe even before some of the more highly rated midfielders in this draft. It's a lottery.
 
Schache is actually going to be a really good footballer and has put some good games together at the backend of his season at the Bulldogs together.

Wouldn't be too fussed with taking another KPP in the draft at some point.

Suppose the counter argument is justthat midfielders are a much nicer short term proposition. Rayner has come in and bossed it. Hugh and berry have changed the entire makeup of the team. It's easy to get competitive faster if your draftees can impact earlier.
 
Schache is actually going to be a really good footballer and has put some good games together at the backend of his season at the Bulldogs together.

Wouldn't be too fussed with taking another KPP in the draft at some point.

Suppose the counter argument is justthat midfielders are a much nicer short term proposition. Rayner has come in and bossed it. Hugh and berry have changed the entire makeup of the team. It's easy to get competitive faster if your draftees can impact earlier.
I agree except for the "really" bit.
 
I agree except for the "really" bit.

I probably have an emotional attachment to the guy, genuinely want him to succeed so perhaps I'm over rating a bit.

One thing is for certain, he's much better than he was this time last year.
 
I probably have an emotional attachment to the guy, genuinely want him to succeed so perhaps I'm over rating a bit.

One thing is for certain, he's much better than he was this time last year.

I'm in the same boat. Of all draftees to request a trade, he is one I genuinely respect and completely understand why he left and think the club did right by him when a club like Essendon would have said stiff shit (see Francis)
 
I probably have an emotional attachment to the guy, genuinely want him to succeed so perhaps I'm over rating a bit.

One thing is for certain, he's much better than he was this time last year.

I'm in the same boat. Of all draftees to request a trade, he is one I genuinely respect and completely understand why he left and think the club did right by him when a club like Essendon would have said stiff shit (see Francis)

Yeah I agree with both of you, and I think we really didn't handle him well in 2016 and contributed to the problems he faced. I think on a roar deal late last year Chris Fagan or David Noble mentioned that they thought unrealistic expectations were placed on Schache to begin with, including putting him on membership cards etc, and said we would't take that approach with a first year player ever again.

There was also a discussion this week on On the Couch about Weideman and Roos/Browny said Schache probably played too many games in the Senior team whereas Weideman had been able to develop at the lower level.

I agree that he has some problems with his game (mainly competitiveness) but the situation he walked into here in 2016 really wasn't conducive to him being able to work those out. It's a real shame Noble and Fagan didn't arrive until a year later as I think things may have turned out differently.
 
I don't seek to compare TAC Cup players - I'm not qualified. I just say what I see. And becuase I am there principally to photograph play rather than just watch it, I can miss things that others are focussed on like defensive running, positioning, etc. I leave all that stuff to the experts. But you do see a lot that the videos do not show. And on the King boys, all the comments are valid about their height advantage, the fact that they are further advantaged by the anti-congestion rule, etc. but at the same time, who's to say they might not be the next BIG thing (excuse the pun) and might not have an immediate impact at AFL level? Maybe even before some of the more highly rated midfielders in this draft. It's a lottery.

As long as people know their limitations, I've got no problems with discussing the draft. And I always enjoy your input when it's offered.

One of my pet hates is people who talk in absolutes... Someone's a gun or a spud. Nothing's ever that clear cut.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I agree with both of you, and I think we really didn't handle him well in 2016 and contributed to the problems he faced. I think on a roar deal late last year Chris Fagan or David Noble mentioned that they thought unrealistic expectations were placed on Schache to begin with, including putting him on membership cards etc, and said we would't take that approach with a first year player ever again.

There was also a discussion this week on On the Couch about Weideman and Roos/Browny said Schache probably played too many games in the Senior team whereas Weideman had been able to develop at the lower level.

I agree that he has some problems with his game (mainly competitiveness) but the situation he walked into here in 2016 really wasn't conducive to him being able to work those out. It's a real shame Noble and Fagan didn't arrive until a year later as I think things may have turned out differently.

All good points. IIRC, the Swans let Mitchell run around in the 2' for quite a while- I recall seeing him accumulating heaps for the Swans in a NEAFL game at Aspley some years ago. Probably wouldn't happen now.

Unfortunately, sides now invest so much in early draft picks that they are almost obliged to run them out asap.

Re very large KPP's picked on the [misguided] basis of dominance against underage opposition, one prototype for this experience, going back a considerable period, was one James Cook [not the James Cook] who starred for Tassie in the then Teal Cup, was drafted by Carltank after his father had let it be known to all and sundry that his son was going nowhere else, and who ultimately proved a dud.

Schache may prove many wrong, but to my eye he seems to lack that certain mongrel that all top-liners have. I don't think that can be coached.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Clubs are mad if they ignore 200cm forwards with early picks. If we didn’t have Hipwood, I’d be all for chasing a King in the draft.

I think performance and potential don’t always line up at junior level. But recruiters know this. I think they would be assessing the impact of a player’s natural physical advantages vs their other attributes.

Rather than ignoring talls early in the draft, I reckon clubs will start to see them as 5-7 year investments. Get them in, lock them away early, put them in a really good development program and then be incredibly patient with them. I think we’re seeing constant proof that big men take time to develop. And yet, most of the footy world seem to judge draftees on their first year’s performance.
 
Would love to see a national reserves comp where draftees get signed for 4 years and have to do some study, just like the college system before the NFL. Then do another draft with all the 4 years plalyers going back into a pool.

4 years of running around at reserves level would take a lot of guess work whether someone will make it, or not.
 
Would love to see a national reserves comp where draftees get signed for 4 years and have to do some study, just like the college system before the NFL. Then do another draft with all the 4 years plalyers going back into a pool.

4 years of running around at reserves level would take a lot of guess work whether someone will make it, or not.
I like the idea but 4 years is way too long IMO. 2 years maximum, the guys in that system would also have to be on the minimum wage as well or they could drift away from the game.

Some players are ready to go at 18-19 eg. Cameron Rayner, Hugh McCluggage, Clayton Oliver, Marcus Bontempelli, Isacc Heeney, Charlie Curnow to name a few.
 
I like the idea but 4 years is way too long IMO. 2 years maximum, the guys in that system would also have to be on the minimum wage as well or they could drift away from the game.

Some players are ready to go at 18-19 eg. Cameron Rayner, Hugh McCluggage, Clayton Oliver, Marcus Bontempelli, Isacc Heeney, Charlie Curnow to name a few.
Yeah some are ready, but imagine what they would be like entering the AFL at 22.
 
Yeah some are ready, but imagine what they would be like entering the AFL at 22.

That would also be taking away from some of the talent in the AFL as well. I can’t imagine Melbourne being as successful without Oliver in their midfield. There are plenty of players that make a big impact in their first three years and taking them away wouldn’t be great.
 
I don't seek to compare TAC Cup players - I'm not qualified. I just say what I see. And becuase I am there principally to photograph play rather than just watch it, I can miss things that others are focussed on like defensive running, positioning, etc. I leave all that stuff to the experts. But you do see a lot that the videos do not show. And on the King boys, all the comments are valid about their height advantage, the fact that they are further advantaged by the anti-congestion rule, etc. but at the same time, who's to say they might not be the next BIG thing (excuse the pun) and might not have an immediate impact at AFL level? Maybe even before some of the more highly rated midfielders in this draft. It's a lottery.
Remember Paul Salmon at full forward and our own Matt Rendell? Very hard to stop....on the field and in the social club for Matt lol.
 

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

That would also be taking away from some of the talent in the AFL as well. I can’t imagine Melbourne being as successful without Oliver in their midfield. There are plenty of players that make a big impact in their first three years and taking them away wouldn’t be great.
That's true and quite a few of our team wouldn't be playing.
 
How many VFL players will get drafted tgis year? And who would be good for us. There quite a few plug and play prospects.

1. Sam Collins pick 25-40. Werribee
Key position or 3rd tall defender.
2. Marty Hore pick 35-60. Collingwood
Rebounding defender who can lockdown and is an excellent intercept mark.
3. Tom Jok. Pick 35-55. Collingwood
Lightning quick wingman who can go forward or back and can even olay in the ruck. Extremely exciting player who has developed enormously this year.
4. Michael Gibbons 35-60. Williamstown
Will play AFL next year. He is a smart determined midfielder. Bigtime ball winner.
5. Nick Rodda 60+ williamstown
Key forward who is like a bull. Moves so well for such a built player and is an excellent kick for goal.
6. Jackson Hille 60+ Sandringham
Halfback flanker who can play 3rd tall. Only 19 and improved a lot this year. Real smokey but has Tom Stewart written all over him.

Thats just 6 i like, there are probably another 6-10 who will be a chance to be drafted either late in the draft or in the rookie draft.

Could argue all 6 would fit our system. Wouldnt be suprised if we chase a coupke of the above names.
 
How many VFL players will get drafted tgis year? And who would be good for us. There quite a few plug and play prospects.

1. Sam Collins pick 25-40. Werribee
Key position or 3rd tall defender.
2. Marty Hore pick 35-60. Collingwood
Rebounding defender who can lockdown and is an excellent intercept mark.
3. Tom Jok. Pick 35-55. Collingwood
Lightning quick wingman who can go forward or back and can even olay in the ruck. Extremely exciting player who has developed enormously this year.
4. Michael Gibbons 35-60. Williamstown
Will play AFL next year. He is a smart determined midfielder. Bigtime ball winner.
5. Nick Rodda 60+ williamstown
Key forward who is like a bull. Moves so well for such a built player and is an excellent kick for goal.
6. Jackson Hille 60+ Sandringham
Halfback flanker who can play 3rd tall. Only 19 and improved a lot this year. Real smokey but has Tom Stewart written all over him.

Thats just 6 i like, there are probably another 6-10 who will be a chance to be drafted either late in the draft or in the rookie draft.

Could argue all 6 would fit our system. Wouldnt be suprised if we chase a coupke of the above names.
I'd give Gibbons a go for a late pick if he gets to there on draft night and we have the list space. The other one who could be worth a look for run out of the back is Nick Hind. I've only seen the one highlight of him which was posted earlier in the week but he has got some pretty good reviews for his season and a few pundits are of the opinion he'd be worth a rookie spot at AFL level.

I like Collins as well although we are set for KPD IMO.
 
I've got a few concerns about Smith personally. Am not sure he's quite the player the hype would suggest. Fully reserve the right to change my mind if we end up taking him though.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top Bottom