List Mgmt. 2018 Draft/Trade/FA Thread

[Peel67skin]

Yeah I agree with Cameron every time I've watched training scim looks very lazy.

I don't think he's ever giving 100% go back and look at his face on draft night he looked so p***** when the Suns picked him.

I hope we hold him to his contract if we don't get something we want for him

400k a year playing in NEAFL .

 

[OB11]

His manager basically said the same thing

That he doesn't have the work ethic [emoji6]

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[OB11]

400k a year playing in NEAFL .

If he leaves Suns can't be paying $1 dollar of that contract

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[Gromma]

No offence to a young player ; but if scrimshaw is struggling to get a game at the suns, it might be a while before he breaks into the hawks line up.
He might be better off proving himself as a player up here where he has a chance of getting a regular game.

To say Scrimshaw was struggling to get a game is not accurate. He was drafted at 193cm and is now 195cm so a tall who is still growing. He suffered the loss of his close Aunty early in the season followed by a KO and seperate fractured cheek. He had frustrating set backs and mid year he naturally questioned if he should be looking to come home and the AFL website published an article saying the Blues wanted him. Suns are very touchy about players wanting to leave and refused to play him after that IMO. He averaged 24 plus posessions in the NEAFL mostly from full back, was emergency for 5 out of 6 of the last games. This opened the door to clubs to show interest. Below are two full game edits from round 13 onwards...at a time when the Suns were racking up losses why else would they not play their pick 7 from the 2016 draft do you think?

 

[Peel67skin]

To say Scrimshaw was struggling to get a game is not accurate. He was drafted at 193cm and is now 195cm so a tall who is still growing. He suffered the loss of his close Aunty early in the season followed by a KO and seperate fractured cheek. He had frustrating set backs and mid year he naturally questioned if he should be looking to come home and the AFL website published an article saying the Blues wanted him. Suns are very touchy about players wanting to leave and refused to play him after that IMO. He averaged 24 plus posessions in the NEAFL mostly from full back, was emergency for 5 out of 6 of the last games. This opened the door to clubs to show interest. Below are two full game edits from round 13 onwards...at a time when the Suns were racking up losses why else would they not play their pick 7 from the 2016 draft do you think?

2019 season at 400k playing NEAFL a big NO .

 

[GcSunsfan]

400k a year playing in NEAFL .

I'd sit him down now and tell him you are not going anywhere.

With KK going I'd tell him you think you are good enough already we will give you 6-8 games at the start of the year to show us what you have.

throw him in the deep end and see If he sinks or swims

 

[THE_GUN]

Make way for...
The “Gun”

11 years lurking in the shadows swapping tazos and talking what if’s.
God damn, I’m not sure i should be impressed your on here that much or If I should be calling your caregiver...

No second account, I live in Mermaid, live near players, golf with some players and I jump on here to tell a few stories from my days outings.

All I said, was be mindful of genuine Suns supporters and don’t get arguing on here with them. You post more than any Suns member and you come across obnoxious at times. Then you proceed to try and belittle me, this is my point exactly, you don’t have the right to do so on this forum. Again, just my opinion. I won’t say another word on it.

Mate go away and stop quoting me with rubbish, You looking for a fight that im not interested in and more than happy to take you on somewhere els
Come back when you become a mod then i 'Might' take notice of what you post

Really not here to humour you

 

[Peel67skin]

I'd sit him down now and tell him you are not going anywhere.

With KK going I'd tell him you think you are good enough already we will give you 6-8 games at the start of the year to show us what you have.

throw him in the deep end and see If he sinks or swims

Not really fair to other players if they train harder than him and not selected because they are not top 10 pick.

 

[gcsunsfc]

It’s clear the coaches at club don’t think he’s meeting required standards.

Makes no sense to condemn him to the 2’s purely out of spite if we knew he wanted to leave. If he was meeting the required standards and was afl ready we would want to play him to maximise value at trade time.

With the demand for improving standards amongst the players it seems they just couldn’t give him games if he wasn’t meeting them.

It’s disappointing for all parties that we weren’t able to help him reach these standards.

I’m sure there are many factors involved as we’ve heard, some out of jacks control.

In the end, AFL is a tough game and lifestyle and requires young guys to become professionals from day dot which isn’t easy.

I was turning up to my part time jobs hung over as **** whilst in uni. Can you imagine if these guys did that. No doubt they have it tough and some are more prepared for it than others.

However, they are getting payed great money for their dream job and if you can’t bust your gut for that then...

 

[Sunny_]

Listening to Craig Cameron it sounds that May won't be traded under any circumstances.

 

[Scotty_222]

Listening to Craig Cameron it sounds that May won't be traded under any circumstances.

If pick 5 is dangled I’m pretty sure he’d change his tune

 

[Jirik13]

Listening to Craig Cameron it sounds that May won't be traded under any circumstances.

I got quite the opposite impression. Just positioning for hard bargain, demanding some serious overs.

Melbourne manager confirmed that they had met with May twice. It's on.

 

[Gromma]

understand your desire to bat for the kid due to your rumoured family relation but the change of the club hierarchy and potential rule changes doesn't give a kid 2 years into an AFL Career with a 4 year contract the right to choose to relocate to his preferred team. preferred state? yeah ill give him that. don't agree with it but some can't handle being away from home.

Mate, Im suggesting the changes made in 2018 are for the long term benefit of the club. The upheaval in the short term has resulted in a list of players wanting to depart. You cant deny that and the club I think, is owning it.

The AFLPA has worked hard to protect player interests from a ruthless industry at times and they do have the right to request a trade but the mirror of that is the club has the choice to make the club an enviroment that puts its arms around recruits and makes them feel wanted and connected. Suns have to get better at it.

If anyone disagrees with that they really should take a closer look. Its not about batting for one kid. Im in a position where I talk to families of players in the same draft year, at other clubs, where retired players mentor a recruit and have them over for dinner every week, where team captains have breakfast with recruits regularly. Its not happening in the GC but again, Im sure the latest changes are gearing up for that but unfortunately its not in place today or for the past 2 years. Some kids have no trouble with the transition, others do, it doesnt mean they cant play footy. It means the club (who are the pros here remember) arent doing enough. Really dont want to sound critical, I think the Suns have always had a lot of work to do and are making great progress. Im sure they are aware of the points I raise and will get better at it. Just dont be to harsh on the young lads.

 

[Ben Drever]

Mate, Im suggesting the changes made in 2018 are for the long term benefit of the club. The upheaval in the short term has resulted in a list of players wanting to depart. You cant deny that and the club I think, is owning it.

The AFLPA has worked hard to protect player interests from a ruthless industry at times and they do have the right to request a trade but the mirror of that is the club has the choice to make the club an enviroment that puts its arms around recruits and makes them feel wanted and connected. Suns have to get better at it.

If anyone disagrees with that they really should take a closer look. Its not about batting for one kid. Im in a position where I talk to families of players in the same draft year, at other clubs, where retired players mentor a recruit and have them over for dinner every week, where team captains have breakfast with recruits regularly. Its not happening in the GC but again, Im sure the latest changes are gearing up for that but unfortunately its not in place today or for the past 2 years. Some kids have no trouble with the transition, others do, it doesnt mean they cant play footy. It means the club (who are the pros here remember) arent doing enough. Really dont want to sound critical, I think the Suns have always had a lot of work to do and are making great progress. Im sure they are aware of the points I raise and will get better at it. Just dont be to harsh on the young lads.

For one.
Robbie D’orazio scrims manager and manager of Will brodie.
Told trade radio Brodie is loving it. Loving what the clubs done this year and loving stewy dew..

Then theres jack...

As for dinners with retired players/mentors etc.

With who exactly?
No one hangs around on the coast.
Everyone heads back to WA or Melb once there careers over etc

Anyone that stays on the coast is working at the Suns in development or alike.

Anyhows. I’d love for Scrim to fulfill his potential at the Suns.
But sounds very much like he checked out a long time ago.

At 20 you’d think you’d atleast fulfill his contract and be loyal and appreciative of the Suns giving him such a healthy contract upfront prior to playing a game.

Nevermind. Onward and upward

 

[Jirik13]

Mate, Im suggesting the changes made in 2018 are for the long term benefit of the club. The upheaval in the short term has resulted in a list of players wanting to depart. You cant deny that and the club I think, is owning it.

The AFLPA has worked hard to protect player interests from a ruthless industry at times and they do have the right to request a trade but the mirror of that is the club has the choice to make the club an enviroment that puts its arms around recruits and makes them feel wanted and connected. Suns have to get better at it.

If anyone disagrees with that they really should take a closer look. Its not about batting for one kid. Im in a position where I talk to families of players in the same draft year, at other clubs, where retired players mentor a recruit and have them over for dinner every week, where team captains have breakfast with recruits regularly. Its not happening in the GC but again, Im sure the latest changes are gearing up for that but unfortunately its not in place today or for the past 2 years. Some kids have no trouble with the transition, others do, it doesnt mean they cant play footy. It means the club (who are the pros here remember) arent doing enough. Really dont want to sound critical, I think the Suns have always had a lot of work to do and are making great progress. Im sure they are aware of the points I raise and will get better at it. Just dont be to harsh on the young lads.

That is one area Cameron mentioned in his interview when asked what Suns need from AFL with Suns asking for additional resources for academy programs and welfare and development programs for young players. The reality is that AFL could not do a worse job setting up Suns. It will take some time to fix it.

On the hand I have to say Jack as a draftee on a 4 years contract and talking to other clubs already mid 2nd year does not sit too well with me. I believe only Caddy left after 2 years. Very disappointing day for me.

 

[Gromma]

The audio is on this thread a few posts above.
Listen yourself.

OK thanks for that Ben I listened to it. So firstly Graig did not say he had a work ethic issue. He said has not embraced the lifestyle he needs to embrace...YET.

He also went on to say they were at the top of their salary cap and they were working on ways to reduce it. Also that they needed to draft and retain top end talent and invest in off field player welfare. This is what I have been banging on about in other posts.

Whilst this might sound like a player issue I can tell you its not. It is a Suns issue mostly. Again, they are a professional organization who need to get better at making players feel welcome, included and comfortable in the environment. Jack does NOT have a work ethic issue. He had a confidence and sense of belonging issue and the club have been poor at managing that, not just for Jack but for many before him I believe.

Craig has clearly said they need to get better at it and he would be a better player in Melbourne. What do you think he meant by that? He is saying Melbourne clubs are better at managing their players welfare. Hes never going to say the Suns have a problem with keeping players because they are poor at player welfare. I do think he should have owned it a little better by admitting it is a problem they have rather than tipping it on the player.

All that aside, the facts are they were playing other players ahead of him when his performances were better IMO, so I do believe what wasnt mentioned is a "if you dont want to be here then we dont want you, attitude" where ego got ahead of their focus on player development.

Craig also didnt mention that he was emergency 5 out of the last 6 weeks...what does that suggest? A work ethic issue? Hardly.

I believe, all they had to do was play him and it would have fixed 90% of the problem as it did with Will Brodie. He needed the club to show they believed in him but instead he was left out in the cold not knowing what they thought of him. At round 19 Jack had is first one on one chat with Dew, Jack approached him! Compare that to another mate of Jacks I spoke to today, at another club, he told me he has had countless one on ones with his coach and understood clearly what they expected from him. Communication is also not at its best.

In a more positive note, Craig did comfirm my faith that they understand the issues and have plans in place to fix them and lets cut Dewie some slack. He's had a very tough first year and Im sure he has learned a lot and will get better.

Yeah I agree with Cameron every time I've watched training scim looks very lazy.

I don't think he's ever giving 100% go back and look at his face on draft night he looked so p***** when the Suns picked him.

I hope we hold him to his contract if we don't get something we want for him

Mate youre not correct about his face on draft night...he knew he was going there and was wrapped to go. He was disappointed his mate Tim Taranto wasnt going there and it is an extremely high pressure moment for a kid in that situation. He was actually relieved he wasnt going to Freo purely because of the distance away from home. His look would have been relief that he was drafted because later I can tell you he had a beaming smile and a great after party.

 

[Choppers]

it's quite obvious you're all for the kids. That's fair enough and that's your right. You mention the AFL is a ruthless industry at times, and retired players mentor a recruit, and The Suns aren't doing enough in this area. The problem I see here, is that most of the Suns retired players are from interstate and go home at the end of their time. That makes it a bit different from the 10 Victorian Clubs. And I'm sure the 18yos are well tutored on the hardships they face, when drafted. If they have a problem with that, then it's quite simple. Don't nominate for the Draft.
And when you get picked up by an AFL club, on a good salary as an 18yo, for 2 yrs, then honour it. And if you sign an extension for a further 2 yrs, before that original 2yrs is up, and on an inflated salary, then honour that too.
As you can see, I get a bit peeved with people who don't honour contracts, and I include Clubs in this as well. it's about time, parents teach their kids responsibility, and if you choose to sign a contract, whether you're a teacher, a FIFO worker, an architect or an AFL player, then it's your responsibilty to honour that contract.
This is not about Jack, this is just the straw that broke my camel's back. It's about this cr*p that has infiltrated this ruthless industry where contracts aren't worth the bl**dy paper they're written on, and it seems to be a given that it's a players right to break a contract if they deem so...because the AFLPA says so......

I'm so over it......

 

[Ben Drever]

OK thanks for that Ben I listened to it.

Mate you not correct about his face on draft night...he knew he was going there and was wrapped to go. He was disappointed his mate Tim Taranto want going there and it is an extremely high pressure moment for a kid in that situation. His look would have been relief that he was drafted because later I can tell you he had a beaming smile and a great after party.

I remember my look that draft night.

stairing at the TV screaming **** yes

Ainsworth up forward
Brodie and bowes in the guts
And scrim the general in defence
Lock in premiership for 2021

And now... sadface.

 

[Ben Drever]

it's quite obvious you're all for the kids. That's fair enough and that's your right. You mention the AFL is a ruthless industry at times, and retired players mentor a recruit, and The Suns aren't doing enough in this area. The problem I see here, is that most of the Suns retired players are from interstate and go home at the end of their time. That makes it a bit different from the 10 Victorian Clubs. And I'm sure the 18yos are well tutored on the hardships they face, when drafted. If they have a problem with that, then it's quite simple. Don't nominate for the Draft.
And when you get picked up by an AFL club, on a good salary as an 18yo, for 2 yrs, then honour it. And if you sign an extension for a further 2 yrs, before that original 2yrs is up, and on an inflated salary, then honour that too.
As you can see, I get a bit peeved with people who don't honour contracts, and I include Clubs in this as well. it's about time, parents teach their kids responsibility, and if you choose to sign a contract, whether you're a teacher, a FIFO worker, an architect or an AFL player, then it's your responsibilty to honour that contract.
This is not about Jack, this is just the straw that broke my camel's back. It's about this cr*p that has infiltrated this ruthless industry where contracts aren't worth the bl**dy paper they're written on, and it seems to be a given that it's a players right to break a contract if they deem so...because the AFLPA says so......

I'm so over it......

Okay now your getting me upset.

Im off to bed before i get further angry and have nightmares about Martin walking out on us

 

[Choppers]

Okay now your getting me upset.

Im off to bed before i get further angry and have nightmares about Martin walking out on us

haha!....sleep tight....don't let the bedbugs bite....

 

[Gromma]

For one.
Robbie D’orazio scrims manager and manager of Will brodie.
Told trade radio Brodie is loving it. Loving what the clubs done this year and loving stewy dew..

Then theres jack...

As for dinners with retired players/mentors etc.

With who exactly?
No one hangs around on the coast.
Everyone heads back to WA or Melb once there careers over etc

Anyone that stays on the coast is working at the Suns in development or alike.

Anyhows. I’d love for Scrim to fulfill his potential at the Suns.
But sounds very much like he checked out a long time ago.

At 20 you’d think you’d atleast fulfill his contract and be loyal and appreciative of the Suns giving him such a healthy contract upfront prior to playing a game.

Nevermind. Onward and upward

Brodie wasnt loving it until he started playing seniors. Like most young bucks they fancy themselves, are very competitive and are impatient to play at times so when they arent playing they get down. He had the same frustrations as Jack. They live together.

Take your point about mentors..fair call but I will say Barlow was one of the best at it for supporting the young kids.

No, he didnt check out. He was always going to take time to settle in and the issues with missing a tight family subsided. Not all players are the same. Benny Ainsworth for example had his parents move to the GC which was a big help for him I would imagine. Bowesy had his Grandparents there. We purchased property there and came up regularly and it was starting to help and show in his performances at year end.

Anyway, agree, onward and upward!

 

[Gromma]

it's quite obvious you're all for the kids. That's fair enough and that's your right. You mention the AFL is a ruthless industry at times, and retired players mentor a recruit, and The Suns aren't doing enough in this area. The problem I see here, is that most of the Suns retired players are from interstate and go home at the end of their time. That makes it a bit different from the 10 Victorian Clubs. And I'm sure the 18yos are well tutored on the hardships they face, when drafted. If they have a problem with that, then it's quite simple. Don't nominate for the Draft.
And when you get picked up by an AFL club, on a good salary as an 18yo, for 2 yrs, then honour it. And if you sign an extension for a further 2 yrs, before that original 2yrs is up, and on an inflated salary, then honour that too.
As you can see, I get a bit peeved with people who don't honour contracts, and I include Clubs in this as well. it's about time, parents teach their kids responsibility, and if you choose to sign a contract, whether you're a teacher, a FIFO worker, an architect or an AFL player, then it's your responsibilty to honour that contract.
This is not about Jack, this is just the straw that broke my camel's back. It's about this cr*p that has infiltrated this ruthless industry where contracts aren't worth the bl**dy paper they're written on, and it seems to be a given that it's a players right to break a contract if they deem so...because the AFLPA says so......

I'm so over it......

That is one area Cameron mentioned in his interview when asked what Suns need from AFL with Suns asking for additional resources for academy programs and welfare and development programs for young players. The reality is that AFL could not do a worse job setting up Suns. It will take some time to fix it.

On the hand I have to say Jack as a draftee on a 4 years contract and talking to other clubs already mid 2nd year does not sit too well with me. I believe only Caddy left after 2 years. Very disappointing day for me.

Jirik13 I agree the AFL needs to put the resources in where it matters so the Suns is an attractive place to go and stay. Personally I love the place, awesome weather, great environment to watch and play footy. Its a disappointing time for us too. As I said, I do believe the Suns are on the right track.

 

[OB11]

I believe, all they had to do was play him and it would have fixed 90% of the problem as it did with Will Brodie. He needed the club to show they believed in him but instead he was left out in the cold not knowing what they thought of him. At round 19 Jack had is first one on one chat with Dew, Jack approached him! Compare that to another mate of Jacks I spoke to today, at another club, he told me he has had countless one on ones with his coach and understood clearly what they expected from him. Communication is also not at its best.

In a more positive note, Craig did comfirm my faith that they understand the issues and have plans in place to fix them and lets cut Dewie some slack. He's had a very tough first year and Im sure he has learned a lot and will get better.

Out of interest from what you know was the one-on-one communication with the head coach and the players much different from Rocket to Dewie?

 

[Gromma]

Out of interest from what you know was the one-on-one communication with the head coach and the players much different from Rocket to Dewie?

From what I can gather, they were both similar in focusing their attention to the guys in the senior side and letting the NEAFL coaches do the work at that level. He had more chats with Rocket but he did play 4 games under him and none with Dewie.

 

[gcsunsfc]

Seems crazy that ne 1 on 1 time with coach.

I would have thought that would be a given for every player
- before pre season to discuss goals
- mid point and end of pre season to discuss process with goals.
And then about every 4 weeks obviously more for the young blokes.