List Mgmt. 2018 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[combaning]

Draft wishes:
1. Best available inside mid
2. Best available small forward (elite pressure)
3. Best available outside mid
4. Best available mid defender
5. Best available ruck
6. Next best available small forward (elite crumbing)

That is all. If the academy boys don't fit, then that is bad luck and hopefully they end up on another list somewhere else.

 

[Teeso]

Rozee looks a good fit for us but bolting to be probably around the pick 7-8 range (behind lukosious, king twins, walsh, rankine, blakey and smith). Even if we get pick 8, drops to 10 after lynch compo and blakey bid and might not be enough to snare him.

If say we trade shiel to essendon for pick 8 and 2019 1st (ignore pick 8 if Shiel stays)
- pick 8 - Rozee (if available, flexible and versatile option as can play inside/outside mid or forward role, uses ball well and has a great pair of hands)/RCD (big inside midfielder who can rest forward, good hands and feet, inconsistent, high risk high reward option), Chayce Jones (played allies with some of our academy boys, strong through the core, stands up in tackles, good acceleration, goal kicking mid, however a bit wayward with field kicking under pressure)
- pick 13-18 - Butters (option to go half back, speed, good penetration on kick, good decision maker, team player, however light on size)/Hill (evasive, speed, good use of ball)/O'Halloran (leadership, good decisionsone of the better midfielders available at this pick)
- pick 23 - Sydney Stack/Jarrod Cameron (Stack has shown his evasiveness, speed, acceleration and skills through the midfield and matches Cameron in pressure on ball, both would be very dangerous in a forward line but Cameron would be more damaging in the air - I prefer Cameron but since he would be tied to academy, Stack seems more realistic)
- pick 44 to match bid - Briggs (academy and fills a need of the club)
- pick 49-54 - Bytel (potentially cheap big bodied inside midfielder like Graham/Worpel from previous years)
- pick 67 to match bid - Matt Walker (academy and good versatile swingman)

After drafting, the full-strength 22 (minus Patton and Tiziani):

Senior
Shaw Davis Haynes
Williams Corr Kennedy
Whitfield Kelly Scully
Taranto Himmelberg DeBoer
Greene Cameron Langdon
Lobb Ward Coniglio

Hopper Tomlinson Deledio Setterfield

Reserves
Finlayson Taylor Buntine
Butters Stein Perryman
Cumming Bonar Shipley
Daniels Sproule Stack
D. Buckley Briggs Lloyd
Flynn Bytel Rozee

J. Buckley Walker (Peatling) (NEAFL player)

Looks a very strong senior and reserves line-up.

 

[Giant Strides]

Not specifically GWS, but just a general comment - I'm flabbergasted at the arrogance of the Melbourne clubs (I know I shouldn't be)! Things like the suggestion of negating a contract to allow Steven May to become a Free Agent and hence be able to transfer to a Melbourne club for a compo pick rather than having to trade - i.e. all clubs behind a club like, oh say, Collingwood, pay the price rather than the club taking him. Suggestions like Mitch McGovern should be able to negate his contract so he can move to Carlton via PSD rather than via a trade (even though another trade suggestion has been for a mid-round priority pick (so a free hit to Carlton anyway)! Things like the Carlton board demanding a priority pick for being so shit - even though self imposed - but any suggestion that AFL could place a caveat on it to trade it rather than take a draft pick is seen as abominable interference in their list management (irony, eh?). And just the general arrogance that a Melbourne club (can name several) will just pick up contracted GWS or GCS players for **** all 'cos it's their right. Sheesh. I sincerely hope most of these things don't occur, because we're already a long way down the slippery slope of contracts and rules meaning **** all in this competition.

 

[Giant Strides]

Rozee looks a good fit for us but bolting to be probably around the pick 7-8 range (behind lukosious, king twins, walsh, rankine, blakey and smith). Even if we get pick 8, drops to 10 after lynch compo and blakey bid and might not be enough to snare him.

If say we trade shiel to essendon for pick 8 and 2019 1st (ignore pick 8 if Shiel stays)
- pick 8 - Rozee (if available, flexible and versatile option as can play inside/outside mid or forward role, uses ball well and has a great pair of hands)/RCD (big inside midfielder who can rest forward, good hands and feet, inconsistent, high risk high reward option), Chayce Jones (played allies with some of our academy boys, strong through the core, stands up in tackles, good acceleration, goal kicking mid, however a bit wayward with field kicking under pressure)
- pick 13-18 - Butters (option to go half back, speed, good penetration on kick, good decision maker, team player, however light on size)/Hill (evasive, speed, good use of ball)/O'Halloran (leadership, good decisionsone of the better midfielders available at this pick)
- pick 23 - Sydney Stack/Jarrod Cameron (Stack has shown his evasiveness, speed, acceleration and skills through the midfield and matches Cameron in pressure on ball, both would be very dangerous in a forward line but Cameron would be more damaging in the air - I prefer Cameron but since he would be tied to academy, Stack seems more realistic)
- pick 44 to match bid - Briggs (academy and fills a need of the club)
- pick 49-54 - Bytel (potentially cheap big bodied inside midfielder like Graham/Worpel from previous years)
- pick 67 to match bid - Matt Walker (academy and good versatile swingman)

Some good thoughts there. I like the look of Rozee, and see him as probably the best outside of those who I see as the clear top 7 (Lukosius, Smith, Walsh, Rankine, Blakey, King x 2), so I'd be happy with him as a Shiel replacement if we were to lose Dylan. Only glitch is that we tend to overlook SA kids, but he seems to have the least 'go home' factor of the SA lads talked about (and we need to think 'best available' irrespective of origin).

I would just opine that a straight 2 first rounders from Essendon - which equates to pick 2 if they finish 4th or below next year - is overs in both my estimation and my opinion on what deal would likely be done by our clubs. I'd suggest we have to return something to Essendon. My thought would be Essendon's #8 (likely to be #9 and slip further on academy selections) plus 2019 1st plus #62 this year, for Shiel & #23. Ignoring pick changes from PPs etc, that would be roughly equivalent to pick 5. They'd have a second round pick this year, and we'd have two first round picks plus later picks (approx. 44, 49, 62 & 67) to make 2 academy selections - Walker & Briggs - and those points would cover matching bids at 30 & 31 (which is pretty reasonable). I'd suggest that we'll likely only make 4 list changes (out: Mohr, Griffen, Shiel if he leaves plus one other - perhaps Tiziani to rookie list?) rather than 6; so we don't need the second round pick really. The extra first next year will give us coverage for Green & Delahunty being potentially high academy picks.

In terms of options, Rozee floats my boat at #8-10; RCD is too early there IMHO, but possible given someone's comment about GWS being into him. The alternative, and also the #13-#18 option for me is Xavier Duursma, who has skill, speed, evasion and leadership & I think could slot into a running HBF, wing or in time an inside/outside midfielder type.

[EDIT: Some recent comments from Knightmare on Duursma & Butters:

Duursma is good. He's been a solid 15-25 power rankings player from the start of the season. He's on the fringe of my 20 and I'm strongly considering bringing him back in, in October. I have him going first round in the draft. Great all-around game. Has the skills, pace. Good inside/outside/back. Able enough ball winner. Good leader - captaining Gippsland and he's one of those guys you can hear out on the field. He could be something like a lower impact Brendon Goddard.

Butters following the injury was considered out for the season. Hasn't returned. Another good talent who is set to get drafted. Another with the skills, pace and agility but not as prolific of a ball winner compared to Duursma.]

 

[fridgeman]

Interesting to see if Reid announces something over the next few days as he would need to be upgraded to the main list and if there is a spot for him

 

[fridgeman]

Some good thoughts there. I like the look of Rozee, and see him as probably the best outside of those who I see as the clear top 7 (Lukosius, Smith, Walsh, Rankine, Blakey, King x 2), so I'd be happy with him as a Shiel replacement if we were to lose Dylan. Only glitch is that we tend to overlook SA kids, but he seems to have the least 'go home' factor of the SA lads talked about (and we need to think 'best available' irrespective of origin).

I would just opine that a straight 2 first rounders from Essendon - which equates to pick 2 if they finish 4th or below next year - is overs in both my estimation and my opinion on what deal would likely be done by our clubs. I'd suggest we have to return something to Essendon. My thought would be Essendon's #8 (likely to be #9 and slip further on academy selections) plus 2019 1st plus #62 this year, for Shiel & #23. Ignoring pick changes from PPs etc, that would be roughly equivalent to pick 5. They'd have a second round pick this year, and we'd have two first round picks plus later picks (approx. 44, 49, 62 & 67) to make 2 academy selections - Walker & Briggs - and those points would cover matching bids at 30 & 31 (which is pretty reasonable). I'd suggest that we'll likely only make 4 list changes (out: Mohr, Griffen, Shiel if he leaves plus one other - perhaps Tiziani to rookie list?) rather than 6; so we don't need the second round pick really. The extra first next year will give us coverage for Green & Delahunty being potentially high academy picks.

In terms of options, Rozee floats my boat at #8-10; RCD is too early there IMHO, but possible given someone's comment about GWS being into him. The alternative, and also the #13-#18 option for me is Xavier Duursma, who has skill, speed, evasion and leadership & I think could slot into a running HBF, wing or in time an inside/outside midfielder type.

[EDIT: Some recent comments from Knightmare on Duursma & Butters:

Duursma is good. He's been a solid 15-25 power rankings player from the start of the season. He's on the fringe of my 20 and I'm strongly considering bringing him back in, in October. I have him going first round in the draft. Great all-around game. Has the skills, pace. Good inside/outside/back. Able enough ball winner. Good leader - captaining Gippsland and he's one of those guys you can hear out on the field. He could be something like a lower impact Brendon Goddard.

Butters following the injury was considered out for the season. Hasn't returned. Another good talent who is set to get drafted. Another with the skills, pace and agility but not as prolific of a ball winner compared to Duursma.]

I think the number of changes will be determined by the SC but if a Shiel/Setterfield leaves I could see the club trying to move up as far as possible in the draft if they have there eyes on a player
I would think for the first pick the club will take nbest mid and depending on list changes whether that player is more inside or outside
Then Briggs and Walker and maybe a DFA/mature age pick and then 2 academy rookies depending on list spots, any spare picks could be traded into next year as the club could have 2 possible first round academy picks
I will say though that several players from the semi final will need to perform well next year to justify a significant increase

 

[Giant Strides]

Interesting to see if Reid announces something over the next few days as he would need to be upgraded to the main list and if there is a spot for him

He was delisted and re-rookied last year - so I presume that the clock was restarted on him.

 

[Giant Strides]

Leaving aside the alleged salary cap issues, despite last night's loss I remain firmly of the view that the personnel we have are an adequate base to win a flag. If you look at Richmond as a comparison, they won the premiership off the back of the players who had finished out of the top 8 the year before. Similarly, Collingwood are into a PF on the back of players who (largely) have missed finals for years (obviously adding draft & traded talent over those years). You can argue that the talent in Richmond's lineup is less than ours; so it's about things like gameplans, roles, and depth to cover injuries. Given the cost of trading out players, and the gamble that you take with draftees, I just don't see value in a large turnover of players.

Anyway, Griffen has confirmed his retirement; I expect Mohr to follow. One other required, which could come from the alleged SC issues. Hopefully not more than 4 turning over IMHO.

 

[fridgeman]

He was delisted and re-rookied last year - so I presume that the clock was restarted on him.

My understanding is that players can be kept on the rookie list for a maximum of three years and then either need to be delisted or moved to the main list and as Reid has spent the last three on the rookie list he needs to move to the main list or be delisted
I think his body is good enough for another season but if spots are tight in the main list it may not be possible

 

[Danny88]

My understanding is that players can be kept on the rookie list for a maximum of three years and then either need to be delisted or moved to the main list and as Reid has spent the last three on the rookie list he needs to move to the main list or be delisted
I think his body is good enough for another season but if spots are tight in the main list it may not be possible

Nope was delisted and redrafted

It starts the process again

 

[Giant Strides]

My understanding is that players can be kept on the rookie list for a maximum of three years and then either need to be delisted or moved to the main list and as Reid has spent the last three on the rookie list he needs to move to the main list or be delisted. I think his body is good enough for another season but if spots are tight in the main list it may not be possible

The bit I've bolded/italicised is my point - last year we did exactly that. Delisted. Then rookied - but a new rookie cycle.

Given that he's played most games in 2018 including finals, I'd suggest Leon would keep him. Great utility & club value. But for the team's sake, he needs to be playing NEAFL because the young kids have pushed him out due to their greater talent; and an occasional call-up due injuries (hopefully very occasional).

 

[Andre the Giant]

Bailey Smith (VIC)
Best position: Inside midfield
Height, weight: 185cm, 82kg
Recruited from: Sandringham
Projected draft range: 2-10
Similar to: Trent Cotchin
Rationale: Arguably best and most complete midfielder in the draft. Sits ahead of the more highly touted Sam Walsh with his contested ball-winning, kicking and acceleration of a higher standard.
July Ranking: 2
Strengths:
Production
Work ethic
Contested ball winning
Stoppage work
Outside accumulation
Kicking precision and placement
Vision
Endurance
Work rate
Acceleration away from the contest
Versatility to play midfield or defence
Reading of the ball in flight
Intercept marking
Weaknesses:
Impact forward of centre
Contested marking
(Notes courtesy of Knightmare)

If we get right up the draft via a trade. ️

 

[Teeso]

If melbourne delist tom bugg (out of contract end of this year), any point for us to rookie him and swap out reid? Both good runners and bugg, like reid would be handy backup as a tagger/utility but younger with less soft tissue injuries.

Bailey smith would be a great get but not sure what we would trade to get that high up in the draft. Would need around the pick 3-4 range (before lynch compensation).

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

If melbourne delist tom bugg (out of contract end of this year), any point for us to rookie him and swap out reid? Both good runners and bugg, like reid would be handy backup as a tagger/utility but younger with less soft tissue injuries.

Bailey smith would be a great get but not sure what we would trade to get that high up in the draft. Would need around the pick 3-4 range (before lynch compensation).

I dont think Reid is at risk of going. He has been in our best 22 all year. Not rated here but he clearly is by the club. If Bugg is cast adrift by the Demons and cheap I really like the idea of picking him up though. Demons supporters are suggesting he's terminally on the outer there. He may find a better offer from another club of course.

 

[gee whiz giant]

Rozee looks a good fit for us but bolting to be probably around the pick 7-8 range (behind lukosious, king twins, walsh, rankine, blakey and smith). Even if we get pick 8, drops to 10 after lynch compo and blakey bid and might not be enough to snare him.


Senior
Shaw Davis Haynes
Williams Corr Kennedy
Whitfield Kelly Scully
Taranto Himmelberg DeBoer
Greene Cameron Langdon
Lobb Ward Coniglio

Hopper Tomlinson Deledio Setterfield

In my ideal team, DeBoer does not make the 22

 

[PMBangers]

Rozee looks a good fit for us but bolting to be probably around the pick 7-8 range (behind lukosious, king twins, walsh, rankine, blakey and smith). Even if we get pick 8, drops to 10 after lynch compo and blakey bid and might not be enough to snare him.

If say we trade shiel to essendon for pick 8 and 2019 1st (ignore pick 8 if Shiel stays)
- pick 8 - Rozee (if available, flexible and versatile option as can play inside/outside mid or forward role, uses ball well and has a great pair of hands)/RCD (big inside midfielder who can rest forward, good hands and feet, inconsistent, high risk high reward option), Chayce Jones (played allies with some of our academy boys, strong through the core, stands up in tackles, good acceleration, goal kicking mid, however a bit wayward with field kicking under pressure)
- pick 13-18 - Butters (option to go half back, speed, good penetration on kick, good decision maker, team player, however light on size)/Hill (evasive, speed, good use of ball)/O'Halloran (leadership, good decisionsone of the better midfielders available at this pick)
- pick 23 - Sydney Stack/Jarrod Cameron (Stack has shown his evasiveness, speed, acceleration and skills through the midfield and matches Cameron in pressure on ball, both would be very dangerous in a forward line but Cameron would be more damaging in the air - I prefer Cameron but since he would be tied to academy, Stack seems more realistic)
- pick 44 to match bid - Briggs (academy and fills a need of the club)
- pick 49-54 - Bytel (potentially cheap big bodied inside midfielder like Graham/Worpel from previous years)
- pick 67 to match bid - Matt Walker (academy and good versatile swingman)

.

In a perfect world with the picks you've used a perfect draft to me would look like this:
Pick 8 - Rozee
Pick 13 - Duursma
Pick 23 - McHenry/ Cameron
Pick 44 - Match Briggs
Pick 49 - Ely Smith/ Charlie Sprague/ Fraser Turner
Remaining - Match Walker

Rozee is the best outside of the Fantastic 7. I see him starting as a High Half Forward much like Toby, then moving his way into the guts.
I love the way Duursma goes about it, no nonsense footy, not a flashy player but does what needs to be done without trying to do too much and can play anywhere, for now I think he'd fit into our backline brilliantly as apart from Williams, Shaw and Davis we have pretty average disposal out of the back half.
McHenry matches the need for a high pressure small forward that can go into the middle, hard tackler and I think he'd be a walk up starter. Much the same for Cameron who I think is a more dangerous aerial threat.
Smith and Turner are both midfielders that I think are under rated by a few on draft boards, both would add good midfield depth, with Turner an option to start as a high half forward. Sprague I like as a high half forward as well, but he's more refined in the role as it's his main role

 

[Danny88]

If melbourne delist tom bugg (out of contract end of this year), any point for us to rookie him and swap out reid? Both good runners and bugg, like reid would be handy backup as a tagger/utility but younger with less soft tissue injuries.

Bailey smith would be a great get but not sure what we would trade to get that high up in the draft. Would need around the pick 3-4 range (before lynch compensation).

Mae Ried is here of another few years yet. He can't play that many games this year and then wander off into the wilderness.

But I love Bugg. Would happily have him back. I like having players other teams hate

 

[Danny88]

Alright ive had a weekend to think about it... I support a bombers/power style all in bid for a flag. I think rather than just focus on player retention which has been my though process all along I think we might need to shake it up. Bugger going to the draft.

Trade Shiel

If we are getting a ruck I don't want a Preuss, I want a proven entity. I want a quality small forward who applies pressure as well. Thats really all we could possibly want. But i think2019 is an "all in" season and our trading this year needs to reflect that. Not kids- proven players

 

[Determinant]

Alright ive had a weekend to think about it... I support a bombers/power style all in bid for a flag. I think rather than just focus on player retention which has been my though process all along I think we might need to shake it up. Bugger going to the draft.

Trade Shiel

If we are getting a ruck I don't want a Preuss, I want a proven entity. I want a quality small forward who applies pressure as well. Thats really all we could possibly want. But i think2019 is an "all in" season and our trading this year needs to reflect that. Not kids- proven players

I think our moves in the ruck area will say a lot about the staff confidence in or lack thereof in Flynn. Re the small forward thing I'm thinking Langon Daniels and to a lesser extent De Boer are enough?
It's a hard one tactically as literally all we need to do to improve a heap on this year is stay healthy.
Spend $1m on fitness and conditioning rather than players imo, but I am often wrong

 

[LordLucifer]

It is imperative that the Giants sure up the ruck division in this off-season. With Simpson out injured, Lobb was forced to play there instead of as a key forward which dramatically reduced the scoring potency whilst not stretching the opposition's defence further.

With Flynn the only other player on the list at 200cm or over, there just isn't enough back-up.

There is also this media speculation that he may consider a move to Freo which would compound the problem.

Draft a young project ruck and trade-in a readymade mature age ruck as well.

 

[Danny88]

I think our moves in the ruck area will say a lot about the staff confidence in or lack thereof in Flynn. Re the small forward thing I'm thinking Langon Daniels and to a lesser extent De Boer are enough?
It's a hard one tactically as literally all we need to do to improve a heap on this year is stay healthy.
Spend $1m on fitness and conditioning rather than players imo, but I am often wrong

Yes while I agree we have the list to go further the reality is we haven't done it yet. Im a fan of taking a risk this trade period. For example a wingard (will never happen) would be a great addition that would more than cover shiel.

In terms of a ruck, Im happy to offload some of the younger talent like setters if it means getting an established option.

 

[LordLucifer]

In terms of a ruck, Im happy to offload some of the younger talent like setters if it means getting an established option.

In the early days, the Giants had a stack of ruckmen on the list but over time they have been reduced for a variety of reasons.

Ironically, the Blues still have Phillips on the list who is behind Kreuzer & Lobbe in the pecking order and given the mooted interest in Setterfield, wondering if there is a basis for a trade there ??

 

[fridgeman]

In a perfect world with the picks you've used a perfect draft to me would look like this:
Pick 8 - Rozee
Pick 13 - Duursma
Pick 23 - McHenry/ Cameron
Pick 44 - Match Briggs
Pick 49 - Ely Smith/ Charlie Sprague/ Fraser Turner
Remaining - Match Walker

Rozee is the best outside of the Fantastic 7. I see him starting as a High Half Forward much like Toby, then moving his way into the guts.
I love the way Duursma goes about it, no nonsense footy, not a flashy player but does what needs to be done without trying to do too much and can play anywhere, for now I think he'd fit into our backline brilliantly as apart from Williams, Shaw and Davis we have pretty average disposal out of the back half.
McHenry matches the need for a high pressure small forward that can go into the middle, hard tackler and I think he'd be a walk up starter. Much the same for Cameron who I think is a more dangerous aerial threat.
Smith and Turner are both midfielders that I think are under rated by a few on draft boards, both would add good midfield depth, with Turner an option to start as a high half forward. Sprague I like as a high half forward as well, but he's more refined in the role as it's his main role

Some good ideas and I am sure there is talent in this draft but you also need to take into account list spots and who will be moved on
6 picks above and then a spot is required for Lloyd who is being upgraded and I can see Griffen, Mohr, Keefe, Tiziani not on the main list next year and maybe 1 player traded out making 5 spots

 

[combaning]

Would like to see what Flynn can offer at senior level next year. Right age now and was an elite junior who I like.

Needs to show some glimpses at senior level to persist with in 2020 and on for mine.

 

[fridgeman]

In the early days, the Giants had a stack of ruckmen on the list but over time they have been reduced for a variety of reasons.

Ironically, the Blues still have Phillips on the list who is behind Kreuzer & Lobbe in the pecking order and given the mooted interest in Setterfield, wondering if there is a basis for a trade there ??

I can’t see a player traded out by the club coming back and also the club wanting the player back
Downie was an unfortunate story and Phillips was part of a fire sale need to cut the salary and is proving to be too injury prone
I think the club expected Mumford to be finishing this year but the ankle injury was worse than thought imo
Briggs will likely be drafted and I can see Flynn playing several games next year to see how he goes
I would love the club too look at Goldstein from North for a year but don’t think he would want to move his family for a 1 year contract, Jacobs is another one but again getting the 3 parties too agree a deal would be too difficult IMO
It shows how hard it is to strike gold with the ruck position and it is a matter of patience, coaching and opportunities for the player to make it as a lead ruck
I have faith in Lobb and with some proposed rule changes how that would effect the skills a ruck needs
Next year Lobb, Simpson, Flynn and Briggs will likely be the rucks for the club but funny things can happen over the trade period