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Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

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CJMB said:
Pretty sure we got rid of him for a reason...
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Yep same reason we got rid of Fev, we regard strong leadership as getting rid of a problem that has festered.

Where as Hawks, Sydney have a culture that strong leadership fixes the problem before it festers.
 

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AndyLucimitis said:
Any chance David King could send a few trades our way - today he has Wallis, Shiel and Tyson off to clubs other than Carlton.
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Unbelievable clowns like him get paid to talk about trades on July 6th. Surely there is more to talk about than potential trades. FFS, you will have a month to talk about it during trade month. The crap they talk about now is made up, chuck 100 names/clubs in the air and he'll get one right and strut about like he is the person who knows everything.

There is more talk about trades in AFL than MLB in America currently, and they have a trade deadline during their season that ends on July 31st.

Donald Trump is a w***er, but 'Fake News' is a great line and this continual trade talk is 'Fake News'
 
AndyLucimitis said:
What about Mitch Robinson - not a great kick but could be absorbing some heat now for Cripps and we gave him up for a bag of chips !!

Could get him back I reckon. He'd be better than Nick Graham or Cam O'Shea.
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Yeah - always had a soft spot for Mitch..
Correct --> would be nice now...

But is 29.. and in 2-3 years, I'd hope he isnt a best 22 player for us...
 
Gavstar said:
Yep same reason we got rid of Fev, we regard strong leadership as getting rid of a problem that has festered.

Where as Hawks, Sydney have a culture that strong leadership fixes the problem before it festers.
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Pretty sure Doc & Crippa have that problem covered these days, Doc would just tell u that he’s not angry just “disappointed” & Crippa would just need to raise an eye brow...you would pull your head in pretty bloody quickly :)
 
FRUMPY said:
Unbelievable clowns like him get paid to talk about trades on July 6th. Surely there is more to talk about than potential trades. FFS, you will have a month to talk about it during trade month. The crap they talk about now is made up, chuck 100 names/clubs in the air and he'll get one right and strut about like he is the person who knows everything.

There is more talk about trades in AFL than MLB in America currently, and they have a trade deadline during their season that ends on July 31st.

Donald Trump is a w***er, but 'Fake News' is a great line and this continual trade talk is 'Fake News'
Click to expand...
actually football is at a low point and the interest is waning in the game
The AFL corporation including all of its hangers on need to keep the game overheating and bubbling along
 
Gavstar said:
Yep same reason we got rid of Fev, we regard strong leadership as getting rid of a problem that has festered.

Where as Hawks, Sydney have a culture that strong leadership fixes the problem before it festers.
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A bit unfair.

Hawthorn/Sydney got rid of their underachievers/pull downers as a component of instigating their culture, and when people came in they enforced the standards to every new player. When you join an organisation, there is a process of normalisation, in which you learn behavioral standards and attitudes in both official and unofficial ways. In this way - for example - the coaches can say one thing - we all pull together, we're a team - and yet the lessons learnt from the observation of the playing group could be completely different - the coaches clearly play favorites when it comes to time with development, straight back into the ones after an injury, time on ground, etc. The key point here is that all clubs usually have their official version of what goes on working well; if they don't, that should be front page news. It's the unofficial stuff that tripped us up, as the message from the coaches and what occurred in private lead to a severe breakdown in our culture.

Robinson and Garlett's omissions were a manifestation of our poor culture, and needed to be part of a message sent to the other parts of the playing group - most of whom have since been removed anyway - that the kind of behaviour engaged in was simply not on. This is a positive move, and I don't see how others cannot see it. We were never good enough to climb the ladder, even with the players we lack from Malthouse's time; all retaining them would've accomplished is the continuation of the poor culture within the club. I'm very happy that some of them have turned themselves around, but the rapid departure from the club is as much a reason as to why they improved as anything else.

As for Sydney and Hawthorn, didn't Hodge get done for drink driving? Is Michael Talia still on Sydney's list? These clubs will move you on if you are unwilling to opt into both sides of their cultures, and that is how they pertain to our situation. Right now, we have the highest degree - going from purely what we know from what the club has said in the press, and in their discourses to us as fans - of 'opt in' to both sides of normalisation that I've seen from us ever.

This can only be a good thing.
 
Didn't give much away....

But listening to the Road to the Draft's podcast on Adelaide's list, Justin Reid says they're open to trading their early picks: "Well, Bolts owes me a few favours after our last fishing trip!"

I think trading Pick 1 is definitely on the table :think:
 
Gethelred said:
A bit unfair.

Hawthorn/Sydney got rid of their underachievers/pull downers as a component of instigating their culture, and when people came in they enforced the standards to every new player. When you join an organisation, there is a process of normalisation, in which you learn behavioral standards and attitudes in both official and unofficial ways. In this way - for example - the coaches can say one thing - we all pull together, we're a team - and yet the lessons learnt from the observation of the playing group could be completely different - the coaches clearly play favorites when it comes to time with development, straight back into the ones after an injury, time on ground, etc. The key point here is that all clubs usually have their official version of what goes on working well; if they don't, that should be front page news. It's the unofficial stuff that tripped us up, as the message from the coaches and what occurred in private lead to a severe breakdown in our culture.

Robinson and Garlett's omissions were a manifestation of our poor culture, and needed to be part of a message sent to the other parts of the playing group - most of whom have since been removed anyway - that the kind of behaviour engaged in was simply not on. This is a positive move, and I don't see how others cannot see it. We were never good enough to climb the ladder, even with the players we lack from Malthouse's time; all retaining them would've accomplished is the continuation of the poor culture within the club. I'm very happy that some of them have turned themselves around, but the rapid departure from the club is as much a reason as to why they improved as anything else.

As for Sydney and Hawthorn, didn't Hodge get done for drink driving? Is Michael Talia still on Sydney's list? These clubs will move you on if you are unwilling to opt into both sides of their cultures, and that is how they pertain to our situation. Right now, we have the highest degree - going from purely what we know from what the club has said in the press, and in their discourses to us as fans - of 'opt in' to both sides of normalisation that I've seen from us ever.

This can only be a good thing.
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Absolutely 100% spot on!!
 

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If there is one year i want a PP for the carlton ffc its this year. This is the draft that we need to hit hard.. all the picks we can get i say. with free agents and big name trades next year.. im now saying no to trading pick 1 and in favour of trading next years 1st
 
BoltonsBlues said:
If there is one year i want a PP for the carlton ffc its this year. This is the draft that we need to hit hard.. all the picks we can get i say. with free agents and big name trades next year.. im now saying no to trading pick 1 and in favour of trading next years 1st
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I suspect deep down a lot of members feel the same way but don’t want to admit it. I’d have no problem with taking it and I’d certainly give it no thought at all if we were to win a flag in a few years time. Perhaps the club already knows it has no chance of getting one?


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Bluey24 said:
Didn't give much away....

But listening to the Road to the Draft's podcast on Adelaide's list, Justin Reid says they're open to trading their early picks: "Well, Bolts owes me a few favours after our last fishing trip!"

I think trading Pick 1 is definitely on the table :think:
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What, Adelaide's first and a player for our first? Don't know if their first will get us Max King.
 
Bluey24 said:
Didn't give much away....

But listening to the Road to the Draft's podcast on Adelaide's list, Justin Reid says they're open to trading their early picks: "Well, Bolts owes me a few favours after our last fishing trip!"

I think trading Pick 1 is definitely on the table :think:
Click to expand...
[Jim stands up and exits the room, closing door behind him]

[can be heard heading down several flights of stairs, then opening another door]

[bellowing laughter heard in the distance]

[Jim climbs the stairs, returns to the room, sits down again, nodding vigorously]

Sure sure... favour!
 

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Is darcy lang still underdone? Hes gone from playing very good in a prelim to cant get a game in the bottom club. First game for carlton he played was preety good as well. Surley ahead of polson and lamb in the team??
 
ShanDog said:
Am I right in saying that priority picks given by the AFL can't be traded? Or am I making that up?

In either case, a draft pick doesn't help much in the short term. Draft picks are about what is produced about 3-4 years down the track in about 90% of cases. We've had lots of draft picks. An extra one at the pointy end of this draft won't "fix" anything. Sure, it adds another talented 18 year old to our roster, but that's more than likely having an effect on our performance in 2022, not 2019.

We have a large number of youth in our club, and a lot who look like they will be valuable players. Mature, seasoned players is what we need now to continue accelerating our rebuild. It seems very clear to me that's the case, so hand-wringing about a priority pick in this draft is a waste of energy.
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Pretty sure the Lions used their pick to trade up or improve their draft position, could be wrong though.

The AFL could however give one on the proviso that its traded for a player.

Or better yet, apply for a PP and in the application state that we will use it in a trade with GC
 
Brettox said:
How about casboult and Graham for Hannebery. Trying to think of something fair but maybe Dan could do with a change of scenery.

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Scoreless draw maybe?

Swans won't want Casboult or Graham and Hannebery is struggling big time. If he can't get up for Horse, I'd say the problem is more than mental.
 
dangerousdane said:
Pretty sure the Lions used their pick to trade up or improve their draft position, could be wrong though.

The AFL could however give one on the proviso that its traded for a player.

Or better yet, apply for a PP and in the application state that we will use it in a trade with GC
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I reckon the ideal outcome at the end of the year is that the AFL publicly offers a PP to us and we accept it, stating that it will be used in trade to get mature bodies in. Of course, that will never happen, because it would make the AFL look silly. And only THEY may do that.
 
bludrew79 said:
Literally only 2 players who I would like on our list who left/delisted.. with view to the 2020 beyond.
Gowers
Holman

Right now, both would be getting regular games.
But note, both these players would end up being in mix for 20th to 30th best players on our list in 3 years
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Really? Gowers looks to be a star
 
ShanDog said:
I reckon the ideal outcome at the end of the year is that the AFL publicly offers a PP to us and we accept it, stating that it will be used in trade to get mature bodies in. Of course, that will never happen, because it would make the AFL look silly. And only THEY may do that.
Click to expand...

I can see the AFL giving one or both Northern clubs a PP, but cheekily make GC trade for Cas or some other plodder with one of their late 2nds to make up for it.
 
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