List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 1

[Premium]

Not sure the draft is actually a deep one. More so a lot of top end talent.

I even think the top end is a little overrated if I’m being honest. Definitely better than last year but the gap isn’t as big as some suggest.

I don't know who has the draft picks , but I'm pretty sure we can get back into the draft in the 2nd round by offering a package of players to say the Gold Coast - Weller , Armitage , Savage , Gilbert , Minchington , Lonie , Wright we can also get rid of one ruck however I think Gold Coast have a good back up ruck so some other team might want him maybe for a 3rd rounder.

 

[Sir Skid]

Savage is an interesting case.
In the back line he drives me crazy with his blind long bombs. In the fwd line he's been a designated on the run from 50 shooter with low conversion.

Yet, last week late in the 4th he was outside 50 and delivered perfect lace out to Armo I think it was.
Like, wtf seriously. Has capability but wants tk kick the skin off it 95% of the time.

 

[STK2020]

Not sure the draft is actually a deep one. More so a lot of top end talent.

I even think the top end is a little overrated if I’m being honest. Definitely better than last year but the gap isn’t as big as some suggest.

I think its going to be a strong top 15 , good players from 16 -30 and then hidden gems throughout the rest .

 

[STK2020]

17-25 .Bruce
25- 30 Newnes , Dunstan , Sinclair , Longer
30 -36 Hickey , Goddard, Lonie , Savage

 

[cooperrules]

17-25 .Bruce
25- 30 Newnes , Dunstan , Sinclair , Longer
30 -36 Hickey , Goddard, Lonie , Savage

We can afford to trade all of them.

 

[bird_man]

17-25 .Bruce
25- 30 Newnes , Dunstan , Sinclair , Longer
30 -36 Hickey , Goddard, Lonie , Savage

Can’t see anyone giving up a second rounder for Lonie or Goddard.

My opinion is you are underrating Dunstans trade value. He’s contracted and has pretty decent number for a 23 yr old inside mid. Might not have huge hurt factor but would suit a side that needs that type. Prestia was traded for pick 5, Redden for 17.

I also think we’d be silly to trade Sinclair.

 

[StCicatriz]

Can’t see anyone giving up a second rounder for Lonie or Goddard.

My opinion is you are underrating Dunstans trade value. He’s contracted and has pretty decent number for a 23 yr old inside mid. Might not have huge hurt factor but would suit a side that needs that type. Prestia was traded for pick 5, Redden for 17.

I also think we’d be silly to trade Sinclair.

Lonie no. Goddard maybe a late one at a stretch.

 

[austinnn]

I don't know who has the draft picks , but I'm pretty sure we can get back into the draft in the 2nd round by offering a package of players to say the Gold Coast - Weller , Armitage , Savage , Gilbert , Minchington , Lonie , Wright we can also get rid of one ruck however I think Gold Coast have a good back up ruck so some other team might want him maybe for a 3rd rounder.

Do they take metal and plastic? Do they want us to sort all the different materials or throw the whole lot in a big bin and they'll cart it away?

The first four players; maybe, but outside Geelong who would probably buy him just to put him in mothballs, Meatball holds little promise for another team, ditto Wright. Lonie was shopped around last season and there were no takers then; what's changed since then? These players will be delisted and if they're lucky someone may take a chance on them, but more likely they'll end up being stars of the VFL.

It may well be unfair, but that's just how it goes. They weren't the first players to have their value destroyed at our club and they won't be the last. All 3 have had plenty of chances, for whatever reason Darren and Jack can't make it in the midfield at AFL level, and all 3 are decent enough forwards on their day but not consistent enough, which is why they haven't locked down a position in the 3-5 years they've been with us.

I hope they get picked up and their career blossoms but I'm struggling to see a club brave enough to take players who "couldn't even crack a game at the Saints".

 

[BrutThough]

Lonie no. Goddard maybe a late one at a stretch.

Goddard would get us a 4th at best.
Why would anyone give up something for him when they could get him as a DFA.

 

[StCicatriz]

Would be hard to argue against that

Goddard would get us a 4th at best.
Why would anyone give up something for him when they could get him as a DFA.

 

[STK2020]

Can’t see anyone giving up a second rounder for Lonie or Goddard.

My opinion is you are underrating Dunstans trade value. He’s contracted and has pretty decent number for a 23 yr old inside mid. Might not have huge hurt factor but would suit a side that needs that type. Prestia was traded for pick 5, Redden for 17.

I also think we’d be silly to trade Sinclair.

I reckon the use of our high picks 56 , 65 , 68 with the Goddards or Lonies helps make them an attractive offer especially teams like eg....Sydney , North who will be chasing points more than position .

Sinclair would prick teams ears , end of the day he is handy and is currently best 22 , if he helped secure someone like Cantwell or Jones in the draft, fantastic!

 

[STK2020]

Goddard would get us a 4th at best.
Why would anyone give up something for him when they could get him as a DFA.

We wont be delisting Goddard .
His value is his need and availability of other KPP that are gettable.
If we did Goddard + pick 56 for Hawks pick 33 and Hawks want and need a tall swingman.
The trade seems possible.

 

[bird_man]

I reckon the use of our high picks 56 , 65 , 68 with the Goddards or Lonies helps make them an attractive offer especially teams like eg....Sydney , North who will be chasing points more than position .

Sinclair would prick teams ears , end of the day he is handy and is currently best 22 , if he helped secure someone like Cantwell or Jones in the draft, fantastic!

Sinclair was huge for us last year. On track to be a really good player and even rated elite by champion data. I think we are better off putting in the effort to getting him back to that player. We’d only be hoping that’s what those draftees become and Sinclair seems the type to me that we shouldn’t be trading out.

As far as I’m aware the way sides use picks for FS and academy players has changed so they can’t just bundle up nothing picks like 4th rounders? May be wrong but I’m sure I read that which doesn’t help our cause.

 

[STK2020]

Sinclair was huge for us last year. On track to be a really good player and even rated elite by champion data. I think we are better off putting in the effort to getting him back to that player. We’d only be hoping that’s what those draftees become and Sinclair seems the type to me that we shouldn’t be trading out.

As far as I’m aware the way sides use picks for FS and academy players has changed so they can’t just bundle up nothing picks like 4th rounders? May be wrong but I’m sure I read that which doesn’t help our cause.

Yeah i like Sincs too , and he did have a good 2017, Ed Phillips will take his role long term if Sincs continues his average year . Basically he is replaceable.
Personally i prefer Phillips only because he hunts the opposition and rushes his opponents possession and gets back defensively . I know he is still learning but wait till he starts attacking and finds more space .

 

[bird_man]

Yeah i like Sincs too , and he did have a good 2017, Ed Phillips will take his role long term if Sincs continues his average year . Basically he is replaceable.
Personally i prefer Phillips only because he hunts the opposition and rushes his opponents possession and gets back defensively . I know he is still learning but wait till he starts attacking and finds more space .

I’d take Sinclair any day of the week.

I think we fall into the grass is always greener mentality when new kids show a bit. Sinclair is an elite kick who can also win contested footy and tackle.

We have bugger all elite kicks on our list.

 

[Snailspace13]

I reckon we seek remuneration for all the Wooden Spoons we won before the Draft came into affect,and received Jack Shit.
5 First Round Picks would be good compensation

 

[VDS66]

We wont be delisting Goddard .
His value is his need and availability of other KPP that are gettable.
If we did Goddard + pick 56 for Hawks pick 33 and Hawks want and need a tall swingman.
The trade seems possible.

OOC.

Will look elsewhere if he can't get a game with us. Either way, maybe a third.

 

[BrutThough]

We wont be delisting Goddard .
His value is his need and availability of other KPP that are gettable.
If we did Goddard + pick 56 for Hawks pick 33 and Hawks want and need a tall swingman.
The trade seems possible.

Considering how obvious it is that he isn't in our future plans, we won't be offering a new contract. If a club really wants him, they won't entertain a trade because they know we will be delisting him.

Why would Hawthorn give up pick 33, which will still get you a decent player, for someone who would be delisted anyway and a late, speculative pick?

 

[bird_man]

Let’s not forget why we are looking at trading Goddard. It isn’t because we have a surplus of quality KPD’s that’s for sure.

Goddard couldn’t even get a game against WC with both Brown and Carlisle out. Just too slow for today’s game unfortunately.

He’s borderline delisted at this stage. We’d be lucky to get a third rounder.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Let’s not forget why we are looking at trading Goddard. It isn’t because we have a surplus of quality KPD’s that’s for sure.

Goddard couldn’t even get a game against WC with both Brown and Carlisle out. Just too slow for today’s game unfortunately.

He’s borderline delisted at this stage. We’d be lucky to get a third rounder.

If we’re being honest he’s worthless as a trade. We either give him another year or delist him and wish him luck in finding another club.
I know he’s had his injury issues but he just hasn’t come on, which is becoming a theme from 2013 draft onwards.
Also the talk of him as a forward is just fantasy, if he doesn’t make it as a KPD then he doesn’t make it in my opinion.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I find it unlikely for one Ross spent less than 12 months with ledger. Ross also debuted ledger before any other draftee in the same class. After he was the best performed in the NAB game. Ledger then did a serious hammy. Ross personally drove him for scans etc. Ledger spent significant time on the injury list in Ross's one season with ledger. Ledger was pretty much the equivalent of someone like crowden is this season. Albeit without the dropping due to poor performance.

Ledger was still listed and played beyond Ross being at the club. If his name was in the bin then why did Ross play him before others. Why did he drive him in for his scans and say he was taking him under his wing. Why did he not get delisted that year?

Now I do think Ross had issues with how he managed players especially the younger ones. The book goes into this in detail and said it was a flaw of Ross's. He was far too brutal with the players that were not the stars. Including putting their careers outside of football into jeopardy. Ross also hated private school kids and those from good backgrounds.

Ledger didn't have a manager also. He had a family member doing that for him. So maybe there's some mix up here and confusion.

So under Lyon, he played 2 games, both as the sub. 10 disposals in 30% TOG was considered by many of us to be pretty good, as was 6 disposals and a goal in 20%.

Under Watters he played played 4 games in 2012 and 2 in 2013.
His highest game time was 76% ( 21 disposals and a goal ).
Ledger was delisted at the end of that time at his own request.

 

[StCicatriz]

So under Lyon, he played 2 games, both as the sub. 10 disposals in 30% TOG was considered by many of us to be pretty good, as was 6 disposals and a goal in 20%.

Under Watters he played played 4 games in 2012 and 2 in 2013.
His highest game time was 76% ( 21 disposals and a goal ).
Ledger was delisted at the end of that time at his own request.

also remember he did a serious hammy i think in his 2nd game, ross was on radio stating it was horrible news for the young guy and he was taking him under his wing and driving him in for the scan, so that probably explains why he didnt play that much that year. i think he missed 9 games.

god we over-rated a lot of the young talent back then, that's how low the bar was

 

[BigPowerForward]

Let’s not forget why we are looking at trading Goddard. It isn’t because we have a surplus of quality KPD’s that’s for sure.

Goddard couldn’t even get a game against WC with both Brown and Carlisle out. Just too slow for today’s game unfortunately.

He’s borderline delisted at this stage. We’d be lucky to get a third rounder.

One of the reasons we recruited him was for his straight line speed. I have only seen him live once this year and his closing speed looked OK. IMHO he doesn't get enough of the ball and doesn't hold enough marks. Realistically, he hasn't provided enough bang for buck, considering he was such a high draft pick. Been unlucky with injury but still would have expected more at this stage. I don't think he will be delisted but agree with you that unless he builds a better body of work we would not get much for him as a trade.

 

[plugger66]

also remember he did a serious hammy i think in his 2nd game, ross was on radio stating it was horrible news for the young guy and he was taking him under his wing and driving him in for the scan, so that probably explains why he didnt play that much that year. i think he missed 9 games.

god we over-rated a lot of the young talent back then, that's how low the bar was

We made the finals nearly every year. Happy to have the bar that low


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[Moral Decay]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-06-24/meet-the-vfl-forward-your-afl-club-needs
For the VFL watchers is there any interest in Josh Corbett?