List Mgmt. 2019 Draft/Trade/FA Thread - Final Wrap

[OB11]

After Chris Fagans comments I hope the Lions get butt f’ed by Richmond this weekend.

Should be a spicy Qclash next year

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Lions and Lyons waited until after trade period to request to be de-listed - that's the issue. According to Suns list manager Suns told Lyons they were happy for him to explore trade but according to Lyons's agent there was no interest. Do you believe that? Lions could deal with Suns during trade period and offer future pick, whatever. It's not far fetched to speculate that Lions (Ambrogio) had an inside knowledge that Suns will de-list Lyons anyway for nothing so they initiated the process after trade period.

You can indeed speculate that, but there is no proof of it. I could equally speculate that Brisbane only learned of Lyons being gettable once the trade period expired, because that's when he started grumbling about the Suns acquiring Miles and Ellis and how he expected to be well behind both of them at the selection table.

What are you asking? Why I think the Lions are drinking their own bath water, why they never played the top teams twice, why they never had injuries, or why a straight sets thumping might make you realise you need more talent coming in?

None of those. I'm asking why the Lions would suddenly change their evaluation of Ah Chee based on their finals performance. If they think he's talented enough to acquire now, how do two losses change this perception? The Lions aren't totally blind to their own weaknesses, we did lose a week ago after all.

 

[OB11]

Well if you are suggesting that Lyons was going to be delisted anyway, what’s the issue? I’d be redirecting your anger towards Gold Coast for that decision. Not the lions. Utterly mind blowing.

Either you walking a fine line baiting people on here or you have a poor choice of wording your arguments (unlike Johnny Bananas who always remains respectful in getting across his argument).

Which one is it?

 

[Suns of Anarchy]

You can indeed speculate that, but there is no proof of it. I could equally speculate that Brisbane only learned of Lyons being gettable once the trade period expired, because that's when he started grumbling about the Suns acquiring Miles and Ellis and how he expected to be well behind both of them at the selection table.


None of those. I'm asking why the Lions would suddenly change their evaluation of Ah Chee based on their finals performance. If they think he's talented enough to acquire now, how do two losses change this perception? The Lions aren't totally blind to their own weaknesses, we did lose a week ago after all.

It's quite simple.
Your evaluation of Ah Chee is that you're prepared to offer a 4 year deal his way on good money. Do you offer deals of that length to just anyone??
That evaluation of course won't change but what you're prepared to cough up for him might if you are exposed like you were against Collingwood and Richmond.

 

[Pns_blister]

Either you walking a fine line baiting people on here or you have a poor choice of wording your arguments (unlike Johnny Bananas who always remains respectful in getting across his argument).

Which one is it?

Neither actually, as one of your own posters alluded to, sometimes the truth hurts. I feel there is a lot of misguided anger on here, which is unfairly being directed at external parties. Brisbane has been a basket case for over a decade now, with similar issues that are facing Gold Coast. Continually losing high end talent for peanuts (Aish, Schache, Yeo, Docherty, Polec, Longer etc.). Through that whole period it was 100% the club’s ineptitude that drove those players away. Not the player’s fault, not the clubs “poaching” them or “ripping” us off. And this has never been more evident than now, with a cultural shift that has seen it come out the other side as an attractive place to come play footy at. Never did they threaten to send players to the PSD, and always facilitated what the outgoing player wanted. At a heavily discounted price. It all changed in 2016 when Brisbane drafted Berry and McCluggage. And FWIW, i’m bullish that Gold Coast could do something similar this year with Rowell and Anderson (assuming you receive a PP).

 

[Mini GF]

Neither actually, as one of your own posters alluded to, sometimes the truth hurts. I feel there is a lot of misguided anger on here, which is unfairly being directed at external parties. Brisbane has been a basket case for over a decade now, with similar issues that are facing Gold Coast. Continually losing high end talent for peanuts (Aish, Schache, Yeo, Docherty, Polec, Longer etc.). Through that whole period it was 100% the club’s ineptitude that drove those players away. Not the player’s fault, not the clubs “poaching” them or “ripping” us off. And this has never been more evident than now, with a cultural shift that has seen it come out the other side as an attractive place to come play footy at. Never did they threaten to send players to the PSD, and always facilitated what the outgoing player wanted. At a heavily discounted price. It all changed in 2016 when Brisbane drafted Berry and McCluggage. And FWIW, i’m bullish that Gold Coast could do something similar this year with Rowell and Anderson (assuming you receive a PP).

The person he’s referring to that said “the truth hurts” was pokerchamp. A suspected multi account troll. That will do me. I’m blocking this guy he’s a royal pain in the bum and reinforces who the real Brisbane are when they aren’t poo.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

That evaluation of course won't change but what you're prepared to cough up for him might if you are exposed like you were against Collingwood and Richmond.

I'm sorry, I still don't follow. The salary cap and its future status remains in exactly the same state whether we win or lose the next two weeks (unless there's an incentive in players contracts for making the grand final. I doubt there is, but even if it is the case, it's not likely to be much of a blowout). Our draft picks won't be directly affected since they're unrelated to our own performance. If we have valued Ah Chee at a 4 year contract on good money now, and the evaluation doesn't change, why would our perception of his value change?

 

[SandyToes]

Neither actually, as one of your own posters alluded to, sometimes the truth hurts.

Yes, we're looking forward to one of the Melbourne Clubs folding and all their resources being directed to us like you guys had
We might even end up with a 3peat
If anything Brisbane is a worse basket case because they pissed all that early 2000's success up against the wall
We've never been given the opportunity to be competitive so spare the sermonising

 

[Suns of Anarchy]

I'm sorry, I still don't follow. The salary cap and its future status remains in exactly the same state whether we win or lose the next two weeks (unless there's an incentive in players contracts for making the grand final. I doubt there is, but even if it is the case, it's not likely to be much of a blowout). Our draft picks won't be directly affected since they're unrelated to our own performance. If we have valued Ah Chee at a 4 year contract on good money now, and the evaluation doesn't change, why would our perception of his value change?

Don’t be sorry.
Lions have picks or players available to deal with us.
You might value him at a certain pick but have to then pay overs to get him if certain players don’t handle the finals heat. To say things won’t or can’t change with how you view your list after a finals series is incorrect. If you’re prepared to offer 4 years you won’t just walk away like it’s been suggested.
Sorry I can’t make it clearer

 

[Jirik13]

Well if you are suggesting that Lyons was going to be delisted anyway, what’s the issue? I’d be redirecting your anger towards Gold Coast for that decision. Not the lions. Utterly mind blowing.

Utterly mind blowing is that there was no Lions interest in Lyons during trade period yet when trade period was over Lyons wanted to go to Lions and asked to be de-listed with contract offer from Lions. Suns were happy to have Lyons on a list in 2019. Suns de-listed Lyons because he asked for it.

 

[NOBBYS]

Last word from me on Lyons deal.
We kept Jack Martin on big money (who wanted to leave) but let Lyons go for nothing to save salary.
In my opinion it was a shocking deal.
Now Martin definitely going and his value from last year has dropped.
We cant keep making these dumb deals.
As for AhChee I would prefer we ask for a couple of players who may come !
Cutler Allison Hinge Mathieson Skinner Ballenden all have something to offer

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Don’t be sorry.
Lions have picks or players available to deal with us.
You might value him at a certain pick but have to then pay overs to get him if certain players don’t handle the finals heat. To say things won’t or can’t change with how you view your list after a finals series is incorrect. I’m sorry I can’t make it any clearer for you

Alright. I'm afraid I still don't understand, although you don't have to explain further if you don't want to. I could understand this reasoning if Ah Chee had a specific role that we have a serious deficiency in, like being a physically dominant full-forward. But he's a flanker. We don't have a crippling weakness there, and he'd be competing with Christensen for a starting spot anyway, with Cox still developing. Looking at our list, I think it's clear we're pursuing Ah Chee for talent rather than positional need. Positional need might change in the next two weeks if Christensen does his ACL or something, but talent does not.

Cutler Allison Hinge Mathieson Skinner Ballenden all have something to offer

For what it's worth, I'd be willing to trade any two of them, since they've all had at least one season on the list before this one and are behind a best 22 player.

 

[Sun Stormer]

Either you walking a fine line baiting people on here or you have a poor choice of wording your arguments (unlike Johnny Bananas who always remains respectful in getting across his argument).

Which one is it?

Can't see any baiting here. He's right - if we were planning to delist Lyons (who I rated and still do) then I'd say it's open slather from all teams to go after him and it's nobody's fault but Suns for misreading the situation so badly. Ah Chee is possibly a different scenario and we'll probably never know the chain of events unless someone within both clubs opens up - in either case there's too much time being spent on a player who gave us little. Maybe focus on King, Luko etc as a priority AND some bodies in with experience and size that can hit the ground running. We have spent too much time and money on light weights (both connotations) who will never get us to where the club wants and needs to get. BTW: I still hope the Lions win over the Richmond tribe.

 

[thurls64]

Last word from me on Lyons deal.
We kept Jack Martin on big money (who wanted to leave) but let Lyons go for nothing to save salary.
In my opinion it was a shocking deal.
Now Martin definitely going and his value from last year has dropped.
We cant keep making these dumb deals.
As for AhChee I would prefer we ask for a couple of players who may come !
Cutler Allison Hinge Mathieson Skinner Ballenden all have something to offer

what about Robertson he showed some good things early and is tough yet relegated to the NEAFL ATM

 

[SandyToes]

what about Robertson he showed some good things early and is tough yet relegated to the NEAFL ATM

No more list cloggers
Robertson does nothing Murdoch can't

 

[Peel67skin]

No more list cloggers
Robertson does nothing Murdoch can't

Get Luke Partington, Luke Meadows and Cody legett, all this players are utilities and want to play AFL with just basic one year or two years new draftees contract if they don't perform can said goodbye to them in one or two years time. No more junk time players. Why paid Brisbane players more playing NEAFL where you can get cheapie 70k+ for holman and Collins, Saad type.

Don't need to paid 200k to 300k per year playing in NEAFL.

 

[Stroppy]

Oh my word...

How many weeks until trade period starts? Then it all gets done in the last few days anyway.

Oh my word...

 

[Jen2310]

5? weeks. A week after the GF right?

 

[Jirik13]

“Before the trade period started I sat down with Jarryd’s manager and talked to him about where we are at as a club and as a list,” Cameron told SEN’s Whateley.
“We are very much in a development phase, given that Tom (Lynch) and Steven (May) were going to leave us.
“We needed to look at some of the younger midfielders and give them more game time.
“We just felt Jarryd couldn’t be guaranteed a spot beyond his contract of 2019.
“If there was a possibility of a trade, we would be open to it, so the manager was aware of that.
“During the trade period I understand he spoke to a number of clubs but nothing was forthcoming during that time.”

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/10/31/suns-couldn't-guarantee-lyons-a-spot-beyond-2019/

 

[Jirik13]

What did he say?
any link to his comments?

It's in Fagan's thread. The first post.

 

[Peel67skin]

Dew always said how Fagan help him.

 

[kreglze]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/10/31/suns-couldn't-guarantee-lyons-a-spot-beyond-2019/

Still a massive mistake IMO.

Need to hope Brodie can come in and fill his role next season.

 

[SandyToes]

Still a massive mistake IMO.

I always liked him as a footballer but again, we weren't the first Club to pass him on
Adelaide did it first with probably the same percentage of perplexed supporters
Sometimes players need the right sort of players around them to fire
I just think our team list wasn't right for him

 

[Jirik13]

Still a massive mistake IMO.

Need to hope Brodie can come in and fill his role next season.

In my opinion, it was correct decision to let him go after he requested de-listing and waived his contract. We saved money, played kids, Miles did the job for probably half the money. Lyons is a very good fit for Lions but for us I don't think so. He was with us for 2 years and how did it help us? His body language, effort was poor in the previous year. With Lions he got another chance, is motivated, fits in their midfield, winning helps.

In 2019 season, would you prefer Lyons in the midfield over playing Macpherson, Bowes, Fiorini, Ainsworth, Brodie? It will pay dividends already next year and especially in 1-2 years.

In my opinion, no doubt Lions could make a fair deal during trade period but hey they will tell you it was a spontaneous decision after trade period.

 

[kreglze]

I always liked him as a footballer but again, we weren't the first Club to pass him on
Adelaide did it first with probably the same percentage of perplexed supporters
Sometimes players need the right sort of players around them to fire
I just think our team list wasn't right for him

I agree, but we still need some solid bodies in there to help Swallow, he would have provided that at least, he is an upgrade on Miller FWIW, and I love Touk.

However, he has definitely benefited from a better midfield around him, and wouldn't be performing to the level he is, with us.