Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Eiffel 65]

8 - 10 is really easy to come up with.

I could see 10 changes. I can't say I could see that many at the start of the season but they're definitely there to be made.

Problem is we don't have a lot of draft currency, so that might limit what we can bring into the club.

I don't want us to delve into our futures though. Still think we're another season off before we really push up the ladder.

 

[Jimmae]

Totally disagree with Schumacher. Fisher I disagree about as he’s shown his talent - just out of form at the moment.
Levi keep as he is great key utility who is solid ruck, KPF/B and I think has a god 2-4 seasons left.

I'm coming up with a handful of names to generate trade value that will not decimate our finals chances, that's all.

Schmuacher's development has been poor, especially in the context of everyone other than Polson and Macreadie. I think even he knows he's probably done. If he survives another year, we'll probably be lamenting the move in 8-10 months time, and you'll no doubt be telling me why you strongly disagree about my next idea.

Circle of life, hakuna matata, etc.

Zac Fisher is not "trade bait". Seriously Jim get a grip. When you write a player off you really dig your heels in

Name a player more ancillary to the 22 that would command a higher value. I didn't say it would be the first trade I would make, but if we're giving up value to get value, he stands out amongst the U24 players. Cuningham is perhaps another, except he's now executing more often (when fit).

Technically no player is beyond discussion if you're pragmatic about it, but then there's trades you can make that you won't lose sleep about. In the context of seeking more senior midfield reinforcements, I've got no problem with moving on Fisher for the right price.

Might want to join me in getting that grip...

 

[RoyalParade]

Desperately need a decent Kruezer replacement, looks like he will be lucky to be able to play more then 10 games next year

Cameron from swans

 

[mochacinolatte]

Fisher and Dow are two who come to mind straight away.

They were not having great seasons by any stretch, but both have struggled under Teague.

They were playing a lot of midfield minutes under bolts.

Under Teague they seem to play as small forward out of necessity.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Fisher will be fine

Broke Macrae's ankles

 

[mochacinolatte]

Banished Fyfe into the shadow realm.

 

[Blutopia]

I'm coming up with a handful of names to generate trade value that will not decimate our finals chances, that's all.

Schmuacher's development has been poor, especially in the context of everyone other than Polson and Macreadie. I think even he knows he's probably done. If he survives another year, we'll probably be lamenting the move in 8-10 months time, and you'll no doubt be telling me why you strongly disagree about my next idea.

Circle of life, hakuna matata, etc.


Name a player more ancillary to the 22 that would command a higher value. I didn't say it would be the first trade I would make, but if we're giving up value to get value, he stands out amongst the U24 players. Cuningham is perhaps another, except he's now executing more often (when fit).

Technically no player is beyond discussion if you're pragmatic about it, but then there's trades you can make that you won't lose sleep about. In the context of seeking more senior midfield reinforcements, I've got no problem with moving on Fisher for the right price.

Might want to join me in getting that grip...

But we’re not really in the list management phase requiring trading players out... If a certain offer comes for a player like Fisher which is a great deal, then yeah ok. But I know he’s a little Fish, but he’s a keeper.

Schumacher can to us raw and I think he looks composed, has a good penetrating leg and I think he looked like he belonged in his one game. Made mistakes but I think long term he will be very handy.

Levi is a FA who I don’t think will want to leave and for what we would get in compo, wouldn’t be worth losing him.

It’s time to fill holes by bringing in a couple of FA’s and trade in a couple of players, mids, small forwards. Then let SOS pick up a couple of gems late in the draft.

 

[BlueJet]

But we’re not really in the list management phase requiring trading players out... If a certain offer comes for a player like Fisher which is a great deal, then yeah ok. But I know he’s a little Fish, but he’s a keeper.

Schumacher can to us raw and I think he looks composed, has a good penetrating leg and I think he looked like he belonged in his one game. Made mistakes but I think long term he will be very handy.

Levi is a FA who I don’t think will want to leave and for what we would get in compo, wouldn’t be worth losing him.

It’s time to fill holes by bringing in a couple of FA’s and trade in a couple of players, mids, small forwards. Then let SOS pick up a couple of gems late in the draft.

Clubs are always looking to upgrade their lists, so if trading Fisher out helped secure a more valuable asset - you do it.
Thankfully SOS appears to be pretty emotionless in his approach to our list build.

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[BrisbaneCFC]

I'm coming up with a handful of names to generate trade value that will not decimate our finals chances, that's all.

Schmuacher's development has been poor, especially in the context of everyone other than Polson and Macreadie. I think even he knows he's probably done. If he survives another year, we'll probably be lamenting the move in 8-10 months time, and you'll no doubt be telling me why you strongly disagree about my next idea.

Circle of life, hakuna matata, etc.


Name a player more ancillary to the 22 that would command a higher value. I didn't say it would be the first trade I would make, but if we're giving up value to get value, he stands out amongst the U24 players. Cuningham is perhaps another, except he's now executing more often (when fit).

Technically no player is beyond discussion if you're pragmatic about it, but then there's trades you can make that you won't lose sleep about. In the context of seeking more senior midfield reinforcements, I've got no problem with moving on Fisher for the right price.

Might want to join me in getting that grip...

I get the idea behind trades of Fisher etc, but boy, people here aren't going to like that. Being Cripps' bestie and all that.

 

[Bluebag13]

After the last 2 weeks it's more clear than ever that we need speed and good ball users.

Papley is a good start. Get cunners healthy and we will look a lot better.

Clearly would take coniglio but really for our needs Whitfield would be the better get, though he would arguably cost to much.

Outsider runners are key for us now.

 

[Jimmae]

But we’re not really in the list management phase requiring trading players out... If a certain offer comes for a player like Fisher which is a great deal, then yeah ok. But I know he’s a little Fish, but he’s a keeper.

Schumacher can to us raw and I think he looks composed, has a good penetrating leg and I think he looked like he belonged in his one game. Made mistakes but I think long term he will be very handy.

Levi is a FA who I don’t think will want to leave and for what we would get in compo, wouldn’t be worth losing him.

It’s time to fill holes by bringing in a couple of FA’s and trade in a couple of players, mids, small forwards. Then let SOS pick up a couple of gems late in the draft.

You're not thinking about this like running a sustainable business model. We cannot have 30+ quality AFL players and then just top 30 picks developing, as the rest of the league won't let us have that much success without making us break our TPP.

If you want sustained success, there's some give and take required, but in this league you'll get plenty of free hits along the way too.

 

[DrZeit]

Simpson should play one more year. Daisy should be offered one more year, provided he knows he may spend a fair chunk of it in the magoos.

 

[ray8182]

What is his specialist position role.

Not a midfielder, forward, wing or defender

He is not untradeable for the right deal.

Zac can play high half forward / midfielder. Not a core clearance midfielder obviously but sits on the edge of the packs and when given just a little space is clean, sharp and evasive.

Trading fisher wouldnt be smart given our list.
Carlton is a slow team. We need more small/medium players who are quick/agile and clean. Getting a player like papley helps correct this. Trading out Fisher would undermine it.


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[GapInIkonPark]

I would like to see Kerr and Macreadie move to the Rookie List, and delist Lebois and Goddard. Keep the other rookies (Cottrell, Owies, Gibbons and DeLuca for another year). Perhaps Polson too (or pay him out) and promote Gibbons.

I would like to keep all of Simpson, Thomas, Kreuzer, Murphy, Ed and Casboult. I would not begrudge Casboult taking a 3 year contract at another club.

Lang, Lobbe, Fasolo and Garlett are the 4 players I think we should move on, Pickett has already left, and Casboult if he takes a contract at another club.

List needs - class and run, and a first ruck to take over from Kreuzer (assuming TDK takes over from Casboult). Coniglio and Papley would be perfect. Martin and S Gray I am sure we can find roles for them.

Docherty, Williamson, Marchbank and Cuningham playing most / all of the season too would certainly help. Kids develop further with another pre-season.

 

[Mister Carlton]

Fisher will be fine

Broke Macrae's ankles

Please post the number of clips of him handballing to people standing still or under pressure.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Was djholmes onto something re Fisher?

Kid has been underwhelming in the second half of this year. Needs to get stronger/tougher.

 

[Blue and Silver]

As a veteran Fisher has been a real disappointment.

As a third year player, he is fine

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[Stamos]

Was djholmes onto something re Fisher?

No.
But if dj leaves Fisher out of his selected team this week, he could be right for the first time ever.

 

[Newton Blues]

Pick up Coniglo RFA
2020 first round pick for Papley
Draft another top 10 midfielder with Adelaides first round pick.

 

[Omega Blue]

I'm not gonna lie, and I know most don't agree, but I've fallen in love with adding Jack Martin to the forward line, 19 touch 5 tackle player.
I agree that Papley should be targeted above him, but they could both co exist in the same forward line, especially at the expense of Lang, Deluca and Gibbons types.
Only major issue is investing too much resource in the one area, I'd accept that a low cost player could provide 60 percent what Martin could provide at 30 percent the cost.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Simpson should play one more year. Daisy should be offered one more year, provided he knows he may spend a fair chunk of it in the magoos.

Still a no for both for me.

 

[Aphrodite]

'We're not offering him the most': GWS Football Director offers an insight into Coniglio's contract discussions

Stephen Coniglio’s name has been thrown around a lot this week, with talks he could be packing up and heading to Carlton. Giant’s Football Director, Jimmy Bartel, spoke on Coniglio’s contract on Sunday Sport and assured the panel that a decision is yet to be made. “We’ve been assured by his...

www.3aw.com.au

Robbo questioned Bartel on the money GWS have put forward to keep the club star.

“I wouldn’t say the most, but we’re not offering the least,” Bartel said.
“He’s looking at the whole picture, this a life changing decision for him, I’d rather him take his time.”

 

[Stamos]

Moved it here.

If they come on - all or one of them - terrific. If Coniglio comes, great. If Dow comes on, if Stocker gets to an AFL level of fitness, if Samo can increase his output...

You know, that's an awful lot of ifs. I've got a few more to add.

What if Setterfield is never more than an almost player? What if Walsh's disposal never cleans up? What if Dow never comes on at all, suffering from a number of confidence issues? What if Fisher continues to play timid footy, becoming a rich man's version of Jake Melksham? What if Samo never becomes the midfielder we all want him to be?

List management is not about relying on the best case scenario. You need to cater for what will happen, and you need to have a bob both ways sometimes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm content with these player's development to this point, and I'm thoroughly optimistic about the future we have. But I'm a Carlton supporter, not someone paid to manage lists professionally, and as a consequence it is my prerogative to be optimistic where they must be realistic, and must continue to create contingencies to ensure that the list continues to improve.

Sure, all the mids we've selected with high draft picks could be busts.
But then, trading Charlie or Harry for more draft picks to have a stab at picking more mids isn't going to help us too much.

SOS' List Management strategy from 2015 to now has been brilliant (bar the DFA/PSD/RD part of 2017, meh).
You don't go hard getting the picks to allow you to hit gun KPPs in the first draft of the rebuild, just to churn them in case your other targeted high draft pick mids don't come on.



And Gov didn't play in the 2017 GF.

 

[JustaBattler]

Dow, Stocker,Walsh, LoB are all very young and in a strong list would be spending as much time in seconds as firsts - developing.
SPS, Fisher have had a year extra and SPS is now starting to play AFL quality football week in week out off a HBF.
Setterfield may as well be included in the first lot given he is coming from way back as far as game time goes off an ACL and fingers crossed he is showing his quality more as each week goes by - still not sure he is a wingman but time will tell.
The other two first rounder are Kennedy and Cuningham - both of whom have had serious injury setbacks and therefore haven't been able to show what they've really got to offer as far as week in week out performance. These are all midfielders who various selectors have rated as first round if not higher draft picks.

Teague is also playing Gibbons/DeLuca and Lang in firsts - Lang coming back from various injuries whilst the other two showing enough to keep Dow/Stocker/Cuningham(inj) and Kennedy out of firsts.

That is by my count 12 mids.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'm not gonna lie, and I know most don't agree, but I've fallen in love with adding Jack Martin to the forward line, 19 touch 5 tackle player.
I agree that Papley should be targeted above him, but they could both co exist in the same forward line, especially at the expense of Lang, Deluca and Gibbons types.
Only major issue is investing too much resource in the one area, I'd accept that a low cost player could provide 60 percent what Martin could provide at 30 percent the cost.

I'm sold on him too mate - handy, flexible, classy player who I think is severely underrated by a lot of people who simply don't watch him play.

Might be seen as playing the race card, but I think a lot of general footy fans see a skinny indigenous kid playing for an ordinary team and assume he's soft at the contest. It just seems to be an unfortunate natural leap for some.

Watch the guy play and he goes as hard as most, harder than many. Sure, you'll also see him try and spin out of a hit rather than ride a bump, but you see that with guys like Ablett, Gray, Cameron, Tipungwuti, Sexton, Rioli, Greene, Rohan etc. Funny how smaller, quicker players tend towards avoiding getting tackled rather than bullocking through them.

If talk of Cogs coming on a lot less money than initially reported is true, and if Sydney hold Papley to his contract, I could see Martin being well and truly on our radar and for good reason.

Coniglio - free agent @ $900k
Martin - trade @ $600k
Front load both to allow for rising salaries of guys like Curnow, Weiters, Walsh, McKay etc.

I'd try for Adelaide's pick and a third rounder or surplus player for Martin and Brisbane's first (held by GC).

Cogs + Martin + Pick 16.

Pick 16 could go either way - a small forward in Weightman or Serong, or maybe go the prime ruck prospect in Jackson.

Two quality mature agers for instant impact, plus a quality development prospect in an area of need.