Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[Red Bull]

Wonder what’s the guts of this trigger clause business re Casboult ?
If he triggers a clause does that make him automatically contracted for next season and thus tradeable ?
Maybe we could work him into a Martin trade with GC ...

 

[Coona Blues]

I’m super impressed with how Setterfield has changed body shape and fitness levels DURING the season.

We’ve been told for years that this can only be done pre-season - in season is only maintenance.

Clearly not true.

Imagine after a full pre-season.

What has escaped most people is that Will Setterfield was not rehabbing with the Giants following his ACL, he was in Melbourne with his cousin Isabel Huntington, both were post ACL ops. Pretty much suggests he was gone from GWS a long way out, and virtually cut ties. Was not in a fully professional
rehab environment and as such was coming from a long way back. Upper body and core work was not a priority during this time, he is as good as a first
year physically.

His upside is absolutely enormous. Only a handful of posters here seem to understand his full potential.

 

[Weiterbot23]

What has escaped most people is that Will Setterfield was not rehabbing with the Giants following his ACL, he was in Melbourne with his cousin Isabel Huntington, both were post ACL ops. Pretty much suggests he was gone from GWS a long way out, and virtually cut ties. Was not in a fully professional
rehab environment and as such was coming from a long way back. Upper body and core work was not a priority during this time, he is as good as a first
year physically.

His upside is absolutely enormous. Only a handful of posters here seem to understand his full potential.

I am one of them

 

[Arr0w]

I did.

We got pick 16 from the Gibbs trade.

We traded pick 16 to Dogs for 26 n 30

Pick 16 shouldn't count as part of the net cost for 26 n 30, you shouldnt count ontrades as your costs double.

Extreme example. Lets say we trade pick 3 for pick 10 and 19
We then trade those picks for Papley and Bolton

We dont say the cost for Papley and Bolton is pick 3, 10 and 19.

It is just pick 3

Your example is correct but it is simplistic, we didn't just trade out one asset in Gibbs or a single pick

The Gibbs trade included other picks changing hands and intertwines with other trades such as McGovern and is still ongoing, as listed below

Gained: O'Brien, Schumacher, Kennedy, De Koning,McGovern, 2019 3rd
Lost: Gibbs, Wooller, Richards, Hill, McInerney, Foley, Jordon, McAdam, 2019 5th

The outcome didn't start and finish in one trade period/draft

 

[Funk]

What has escaped most people is that Will Setterfield was not rehabbing with the Giants following his ACL, he was in Melbourne with his cousin Isabel Huntington, both were post ACL ops. Pretty much suggests he was gone from GWS a long way out, and virtually cut ties. Was not in a fully professional
rehab environment and as such was coming from a long way back. Upper body and core work was not a priority during this time, he is as good as a first
year physically.

His upside is absolutely enormous. Only a handful of posters here seem to understand his full potential.

I’ve been on the Setterfield train for quite some time.

I’ve posted since last year that I preferred to miss Shiel and get Setterfield.

5 years younger, significantly less cost (in picks and $), better disposal with huge upside. If SOS rated him #1 in his draft he’ll go alright.....

 

[Arr0w]

Wonder what’s the guts of this trigger clause business re Casboult ?
If he triggers a clause does that make him automatically contracted for next season and thus tradeable ?
Maybe we could work him into a Martin trade with GC ...

Since SOS arrived at the club, our payments are more realistic (he was shocked we were paying 100% of the TPP, probably like the rest of us) but more importantly those base contracts + incentives and triggers allow more flexibility.

From my understanding, if player doesn't meet a trigger, he could still be offered a contract, club just has more say. If a player does meet the trigger, he can enforce the next phase of the contract, in this case the player has more say, whether he stays or not.

Ultimately even if Levi meets the triggers, he is still uncontracted and has more options

 

[Red Bull]

Since SOS arrived at the club, our payments are more realistic (he was shocked we were paying 100% of the TPP, probably like the rest of us) but more importantly those base contracts + incentives and triggers allow more flexibility.

From my understanding, if player doesn't meet a trigger, he could still be offered a contract, club just has more say. If a player does meet the trigger, he can enforce the next phase of the contract, in this case the player has more say, whether he stays or not.

Ultimately even if Levi meets the triggers, he is still uncontracted and has more options

I’m hoping the trigger see’s Casboult automatically contracted for next season eg, Carlton enforce the next phase of the contract which would be the best result for Carlton as we could work him into a possible Martin trade with GC.
If uncontracted, he can walk wherever he chooses as an UFA and any compensation may be minimal and not as beneficial to Carlton in trading.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Why trade the big fella? He is taking another step and the team is better for it, especially with his versatility. He’s body is quite durable and looks as fit as a fiddle and could play another 5 years. We need to keep building the list for long term success from here and these type of players are what you keep for success!

 

[HARKER]

I’m hoping the trigger see’s Casboult automatically contracted for next season eg, Carlton enforce the next phase of the contract which would be the best result for Carlton as we could work him into a possible Martin trade with GC.
If uncontracted, he can walk wherever he chooses as an UFA and any compensation may be minimal and not as beneficial to Carlton in trading.

I think it's time for Levi to go and possibly get himself a three year contract elsewhere, taking him to playing at 32 years of age.
I don't know as fact, but understand he's not keen on moving interstate and someone like The Bulldogs may suit him well.

Reason: Opportunities down back may close up and then things may get tight, up forward also.
We have our two key back posts largely locked down with Jones & Weitering now.
Casboult won't usurp McKay and CCurnow either and McGovern will also likely be favoured for his versatility.
I foresee TDK being weened into our 'system' soon enough also as a ruck/forward, so where does that leave Casboult?

I don't think the CFC will offer Casboult two years let alone three, so if he gets it elsewhere and stays in Victoria......It just seems right.


EDIT: There you go. I didn't read your whole post. Never mind....and I agree with you.

 

[Red Bull]

Why trade the big fella? He is taking another step and the team is better for it, especially with his versatility. He’s body is quite durable and looks as fit as a fiddle and could play another 5 years. We need to keep building the list for long term success from here and these type of players are what you keep for success!

Because going forward in defence he would rank behind Weitering Jones Marchbank and Plowman.
In attack he would rank behind Curnow McGovern and McKay.
He is not a starting ruckman where TDK would be the earmarked replacement for Kreuzer.
Casboult is rising 30yo, if we could work him into a trade for Martin who is of need it’s a big win.
List management is not all about the next game.

 

[The Bighouse]

p.s. if you’re in NYC we should organize a gathering to watch the Blues play Finals next September



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Can you organise the accommodation...?

 

[SurreyBlue]

Because going forward in defence he would rank behind Weitering Jones Marchbank and Plowman.
In attack he would rank behind Curnow McGovern and McKay.
He is not a starting ruckman where TDK would be the earmarked replacement for Kreuzer.
Casboult is rising 30yo, if we could work him into a trade for Martin who is of need it’s a big win.
List management is not all about the next game.

Agree but look at this other way as well.
Kruezer and Phillips will need to carry our ruck for a year or 2. Lobbe is gone.
We need Casboult as 2nd ruck on game time and as emergency 1st, if needed but hopefully not.
What we need to do is draft another TdK and develop them together, so they partner together long term.
Short term and long term success planning. Medallions for everyone if done right.

 

[Jeremias]

I think the club will keep him on the list for 2020 regardless. But think that might be it. Hope I'm wrong.

We won’t keep him if we see no way for him to get back on track.

But that seems very unlikely.

Let’s see where he’s at this time next year. As of right now I’m seeing a fair few who I’d be cutting before Willo, given how highly we rate him.

He’ll only be 21 at that point in time also. There’s no rush.

 

[Red Bull]

Agree but look at this other way as well.
Kruezer and Phillips will need to carry our ruck for a year or 2. Lobbe is gone.
We need Casboult as 2nd ruck on game time and as emergency 1st, if needed but hopefully not.
What we need to do is draft another TdK and develop them together, so they partner together long term.
Short term and long term success planning. Medallions for everyone if done right.

Unload Lobbe and Phillips.
Adelaide pick for Papley and Cameron.
Cameron serves as Kreuzer backup until TDK is ready or he indeed grabs the position in his own right.
Casboult isn’t needed, an occasional run in the ruck to chop out Kreuzer will do McKay the world of good.
If Casboult can help deliver Martin it’s good for Carlton.

 

[JustaBattler]

What would it take to keep Levi on the books? He has no 'trade' currency since he is a UFA - he won't cost much and has shown he over delivers ..I think his utility and proven fitness levels makes him a no brainer 'keep'.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

I am one of them

I'm the other one

 

[footyfan1978]

What would it take to keep Levi on the books? He has no 'trade' currency since he is a UFA - he won't cost much and has shown he over delivers ..I think his utility and proven fitness levels makes him a no brainer 'keep'.

If Lobbe is gone as most expect, Levi looks a certain keep.
Personally I would love to trade him and make the very most of him making his market value at it's peak right now but 99% certain he is restricted free agent so trading is not really an option. So he more value to keep as ruck back up. His best effort rucking around ground I ever seen was last week. Russell done an amazing job to get the big guy moving more often. Kicking will never get fully fixed but the work rate around ground has.

 

[JustaBattler]

If Lobbe is gone as most expect, Levi looks a certain keep.
Personally I would love to trade him and make the very most of him making his market value at it's peak right now but 99% certain he is restricted free agent so trading is not really an option. So he more value to keep as ruck back up. His best effort rucking around ground I ever seen was last week. Russell done an amazing job to get the big guy moving more often. Kicking will never get fully fixed but the work rate around ground has.

Former free agents among 50 names added to 2019 list

Dale Thomas, James Frawley and Scott Selwood headline the additions to the 2019 free agency list

www.afl.com.au

Going by article in link above it looks like Levi is an UFA - so the whole 'trade him' idea (which I wouldn't do anyway) is off the table - and no surprises his agent is working the media re Levi's new found talent(s).

 

[Red Bull]

If we had some certain clarification on Casboult’s trigger clause status it would help discussion.

 

[JustaBattler]

If we had some certain clarification on Casboult’s trigger clause status it would help discussion.

I think it is fair to say that a trigger clause that disadvantages Levi too much - in terms of potential earn relative to alternative offer(s) - wouldn't be something that the CLub is going to press....the bloke has looked around for better offers in the past ( the CLub encouraged him to do so) and the CLub has benefitted ( perhaps unexpectedly) from his improvement this year - but loyalty is a two way street...doubt it would cost too much to see Levi finish his career as a one Club player.

 

[footyfan1978]

Former free agents among 50 names added to 2019 list

Dale Thomas, James Frawley and Scott Selwood headline the additions to the 2019 free agency list

www.afl.com.au

Going by article in link above it looks like Levi is an UFA - so the whole 'trade him' idea (which I wouldn't do anyway) is off the table - and no surprises his agent is working the media re Levi's new found talent(s).

Sorry, yeah, I meant Unrestricted Free Agent anyway. Just typed the other version in a blond moment. He will not leave of his own accord anyway unless some other club offers him a too good to refuse financial offer. He has always loved the club so he will want to stay unless someone tells him financially he would be mad to not take up another offer.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Your example is correct but it is simplistic, we didn't just trade out one asset in Gibbs or a single pick

The Gibbs trade included other picks changing hands and intertwines with other trades such as McGovern and is still ongoing, as listed below

Gained: O'Brien, Schumacher, Kennedy, De Koning,McGovern, 2019 3rd
Lost: Gibbs, Wooller, Richards, Hill, McInerney, Foley, Jordon, McAdam, 2019 5th

The outcome didn't start and finish in one trade period/draft

We didnt lose Richards. Thats like saying Sydney lost McGovern

Anyway I dont think its important other than to point out that the way you are listing it is double counting and makes it look like we gave up a lot more than we did.

I simplified it to help show this to you because once you break it down it becomes easier to understand.

Go blues

 

[Red Bull]

I think it is fair to say that a trigger clause that disadvantages Levi too much - in terms of potential earn relative to alternative offer(s) - wouldn't be something that the CLub is going to press....the bloke has looked around for better offers in the past ( the CLub encouraged him to do so) and the CLub has benefitted ( perhaps unexpectedly) from his improvement this year - but loyalty is a two way street...doubt it would cost too much to see Levi finish his career as a one Club player.

If say GC offer Casboult 3 years at 500k we wouldn’t be matching it should the trigger clause be enforced and Levi remain contracted to Carlton.
Casboult should accept the offer with Carlton’s assistance via trade.
Win for Casboult.
Win for Carlton.

 

[Juddernaut08]

If say GC offer Casboult 3 years at 500k we wouldn’t be matching it should the trigger clause be enforced and Levi remain contracted to Carlton.
Casboult should accept the offer with Carlton’s assistance via trade.
Win for Casboult.
Win for Carlton.

Controversial but would rather keep him and trade Mitch

 

[Red Bull]

Controversial but would rather keep him and trade Mitch

Run it by SOS ...