Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[Blue__Balls]

You must be right.

The person I had dinner with last night who sits at the draft table of the club concerned, obviously lied to me.

Carry on.

Was that person from the Adelaide Football Club?

Because if so, and nobody else rated him that highly, it casts some doubt on their assessment. Also, makes complete sense that they wouldn't give up Pick ~15 if there was no demand in the market.

If not, why on earth would their club not have offered something better than Pick 43 to get a player they rated at 15?

You've may have been told something, Agro, but it doesn't make any sense whatsoever given the way things actually played out.

 

[Arr0w]

You don’t have to buy it - but I’m telling you there were clubs that rated him in the 20’s - and I know for a fact that one club had him at 15.

You contend that he’ll never produce anything.

I know that one club had him at 15 on their draft list.

Which ever recruiter rated him at 15, should be sacked. No way he is worth a 1st rounder in this draft. He will have an impact at the next level, especially in the Crows forward line, but given his age, no club would have used a 1st round pick

 

[gardiner stand]

McGovern plays. Suddenly everytime we go forward Charlie isnt going to be triple teamed. Or if he is, McGovern will demand the ball.

It's quite exciting to think about really.

It’s quick movement into the fwd line that puts pressure on defences. If they piss fart around with the ball going in it’ll come straight back out. The new 666 rule will benefit the teams that can get quality clearances to their fwds quickly.Foe example I think Collingwood will be dangerous in this area with Grundy so dominant and Sidebottom,Beams,Treloar and Pendlebury all superb center clearance players.

 

[F_therest]

Kid showed he could be a prolific ball winner in the twos, then showed he could play a run with role with high pressure. In the ones he’s showed glimpses of that and against Adelaide he showed he can mix with the best.

Polson wasn't that prolific.

And your praise of his performances in the AFL is very generous...mix with the best?

He had one ok game, the rest were honestly garbage...like 5-6 disposals, 3 clangers type games.
He could still make it yet but let's not get carried away with our blue tinted glasses on.

 

[agro]

Which ever recruiter rated him at 15, should be sacked. No way he is worth a 1st rounder in this draft. He will have an impact at the next level, especially in the Crows forward line, but given his age, no club would have used a 1st round pick

I’ll let him know and I’ll get them to get in touch with you as his replacement.

 

[Arr0w]

I’ll let him know and I’ll get them to get in touch with you as his replacement.

Humourise

I would be interested in his track record, rating McAdam, that high after not being drafted 5 odd years in a row, makes me curious

 

[Faz 2000]

It’s quick movement into the fwd line that puts pressure on defences. If they piss fart around with the ball going in it’ll come straight back out. The new 666 rule will benefit the teams that can get quality clearances to their fwds quickly.

I wonder with Harry, Charlie and McLovin up forward who is actually going to kick the most goals. I can see it going any of their way.

On pure talent, it's Curnow - but it seems quite likely he'll be using his big tank and mobility hitting up to the wings. He might spend a lot of time 1.5-2 kicks from goal.

If Harry plays all year close to goal, you have to think he's going to poke 40+ through on exposed form. But then again, maybe he pinch-hits in the ruck, spends more time bringing the ball to ground than actually as a spearhead.

And then there's McGovern - at the Cows you had Tex playing proper CHF, JJ getting all the cheap shit and kicking the goals, and Mitch playing third banana whilst Lynch was all over the ground. He COULD become the main "full forward" if Curnow is roaming and McKay is rucking.

Will be interesting! I love it as a trio. Lots of ways to hurt the defence. Gotta get some capable smalls and an x-factor mid-sizer in there to complete it, but it's a great start to a strong forward line for a long time, I think. Would be great to see each of them kick a "bag" (say... 5?) or two, just to prove how dangerous each can be.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

And your praise of his performances in the AFL is very generous...mix with the best?

Mix with the best just refers to Afl standard.

I’m confident. Im just providing balance to people who’ve already written him off.

 

[gbatman]

Love our forward line structure with two mobile talls and a powerful medium sized player with some good quick smaller options. We have no excuses not to want to be getting the ball in there quick. I don't think it's silly to expect that with good supply McKay and Curnow won't kick around 40 goals. What excites me is that our forwards can rotate quite a bit from high to deep. Would expect McKay, Curnow and McGovern to have pretty good tanks and have a good ability to play deep as well. We're going to be able to make opposition defences really run hard and work.

Will be a fair bit of competition for the three smaller spots. I think Fasolo, Polson and Fisher are going to be the front runners but we could well see challenges from Pickett, Garlett and Thomas as well as the resting midfielders.

If we're good enough then I hope we can play in a way where we can nullify the more attacking defences by really making them defend and work hard defensively. Identify the oppositions best running defenders and make them work hard up the ground and rotate through them. With our lack of depth and fitness we've been easy fodder for attacking defenders. Shouldn't have to tag them to stop them.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I’ll let him know and I’ll get them to get in touch with you as his replacement.

Still waiting for your throughts on this, Agro:

If the club this person works for rated McAdam at Pick 15, why didn't they offer more than Adelaide's Pick 43 so they could snap up a bargain?

 

[Stamos]

Jury is out for Mcgovern. Two second rounders is overs based on his age and output thus far. Those two second rounders got Adelaide pick 13 and Mcadam.

2 second rounders AND 2 third rounders got them #13 and McAdam

 

[therubbernub]

I think we need more pace in our side/list.

Need TW, DC, JP, CP to come on, plus we need to recruit more speed (preferably than have some goal sense).

Also need a more immediate ruck replacement (around 23-24yrs old) than DTK, but that won't happen till we delist Philips or Lobbe. Really need better spacing in the age of rucks on the list.

Phillips is only 27 and could easily play for another 5-6 years. 33 is not over the hill when it comes to ruckmen. By the time he retires TDK will be in that 23-24 yrs bracket. But Harry will be there first and who knows what being a ruckman looks like in 2024. dedicated rucks will likely be a thing of the past, and tall mobiles that play forward could be the rage. I rate phillips and hopefully if he gets an injury free run.....as opposed to Kreuzer LOL , then our rucks are ok. Thats not stopping sos grabbing a few roookie ruchmen in the next few years.

 

[therubbernub]

Polson wasn't that prolific.

And your praise of his performances in the AFL is very generous...mix with the best?

He had one ok game, the rest were honestly garbage...like 5-6 disposals, 3 clangers type games.
He could still make it yet but let's not get carried away with our blue tinted glasses on.

The trend is your friend, and his performance like simmo a decade before him, SUGGESTS that he has a future. remember his tackle numbers have been good in some of his low disposal games, so he was involved in the game by applying high pressure- something that is being evermore appreciated in todays game. His last game he had 15 disposals and 7 tackles. if he can continue those sorts of numbers, we have a real battle on for our high pressure small forward, between Polson, pickett, garlett, Bugg

 

[Arr0w]

Phillips is only 27 and could easily play for another 5-6 years. 33 is not over the hill when it comes to ruckmen. By the time he retires TDK will be in that 23-24 yrs bracket. But Harry will be there first and who knows what being a ruckman looks like in 2024. dedicated rucks will likely be a thing of the past, and tall mobiles that play forward could be the rage. I rate phillips and hopefully if he gets an injury free run.....as opposed to Kreuzer LOL , then our rucks are ok. Thats not stopping sos grabbing a few roookie ruchmen in the next few years.

I share Sector 7G concerns.

I rate Phillips as a tap ruckman too, but there 2 concerning aspects

1. He has never had a season, that he has been injury free, ever. So it would take a miracle for that to change, where he has ongoing continuity for the rest of his career
2. The style of ruckmen is changing, unless they can be a genuine target resting forward and cover the ground quickly while onball, they will be less effective to team balance. The last, top end, flag winning ruckman was maybe 8 years ago, in Jolly

Vardy and Lycett, despite not being ranked in the top 10 ruckmen in the league, absolutely destroyed both Gawn and Grundy through the finals.

Targeting the likes of a Vardy, Lycett, Sinclair, etc style ruckman, is not only more cost effective, but allows for better team balance

 

[skadoosh]

At the end of next season how do we measure how many goals he creates for Harry,Charlie or anyone else playing in our fwd line? Just him being in the 50 will create more pressure for opposition defences.
Why are we even talking about this? It was plainly obvious last season that we need quality experienced players in his age group to take pressure of the kids.
If we took our 2nd rounders or the pick 13 to the draft i think it would’ve further unbalanced the list.
Our list was the worst in history in 2015 and Sos’s Job is to fix the list. When the list has matured then he will have the luxury to say no to this kind of deal.

Don't know if I worded my post poorly....but I'm on your side.

 

[Brighton_Diggins]

I just think of Cripps, Dow and Walsh all firing. That is a serious mid setup right there. Absolutely eye watering.
Add in Ed, Kenndy, The tenterfield saddler, Murph and fisher and its almost looking like we have depth.

My 2 worries are kroozz and Fazz. Just not sure their bodies will endure. Happy to be proven so wrong.

 

[Macca43]

Polson wasn't that prolific.

And your praise of his performances in the AFL is very generous...mix with the best?

He had one ok game, the rest were honestly garbage...like 5-6 disposals, 3 clangers type games.
He could still make it yet but let's not get carried away with our blue tinted glasses on.

he had 5 games out 12 where he had under 7 possessions at the other end he had two games where he got 15 possessions, one where he had 10 and one where he had 9.

He also had 4 games where he laid 5 or more tackles and only 2 where he laid less than 2.

In his first 6 games last year he had only once did he have more than 7 possessions and averaged 5.8 while in his second 6 only twice did he have less than 7 possessions and averaged 9.3.

Interestingly he had 15 possessions, 3 tackles and 1 goal against the Hawks (a 12 goal Loss) and 15 possessions, 7 tackles and 2 goals against the Crows (a 104 point loss).

I think what have his supporters (of which I am one) excited is that they see energy, effort and progress

 

[therubbernub]

Just him being in the 50 will create more pressure for opposition defences.

For years, we have been pretty predictable in our forward line, with the exception of Betts. Even fevola- as good as he was, was pretty predictable. But with some good supply, we now have some interesting permutations that could confound opposition team defence.
1. Mitch is probably THE most unpredictable forward we have - with his ability to mark from anywhere, run, pressure. He plays both tall or short.
2. Charlie has already shown some really miraculous stuff so far, and he will enjoy not being the key focus of defence. I expect his output to really blossom this year.
3.Harry, is reportedly 203 cm now, and yet is super mobile and quick and good below his knees. His mobility belies his height, and he should be a real handful going forward.
4. Fasolo. I understand some peoples reservations about his pressure/defensive game but his real strength lies in his miraculous offensive game that may be hard to close down.
5 small defensive forward- we only need one of polson, bugg, garlett, pickett to step up and take this role
6. Resting dangerous mid. Cripps and kennedy can both take very good grabs. Murphy can be deadly if he spends time forward

 

[therubbernub]

Polson wasn't that prolific.

And your praise of his performances in the AFL is very generous...mix with the best?

He had one ok game, the rest were honestly garbage...like 5-6 disposals, 3 clangers type games.
He could still make it yet but let's not get carried away with our blue tinted glasses on.

No one is proclaiming him yet , to be anything more than a small defensive forward who is gradually working his way into the game. But his tackle numbers are good, and he is gradually finding more of the ball

 

[rog1995]

42 list changes in three years? Wow it's like a new team build from scratch without the draft concessions. What a truly remarkable effort. SOS is a legend.

 

[bmaurizio]

I wonder with Harry, Charlie and McLovin up forward who is actually going to kick the most goals. I can see it going any of their way.

On pure talent, it's Curnow - but it seems quite likely he'll be using his big tank and mobility hitting up to the wings. He might spend a lot of time 1.5-2 kicks from goal.

If Harry plays all year close to goal, you have to think he's going to poke 40+ through on exposed form. But then again, maybe he pinch-hits in the ruck, spends more time bringing the ball to ground than actually as a spearhead.

And then there's McGovern - at the Cows you had Tex playing proper CHF, JJ getting all the cheap shit and kicking the goals, and Mitch playing third banana whilst Lynch was all over the ground. He COULD become the main "full forward" if Curnow is roaming and McKay is rucking.

Will be interesting! I love it as a trio. Lots of ways to hurt the defence. Gotta get some capable smalls and an x-factor mid-sizer in there to complete it, but it's a great start to a strong forward line for a long time, I think. Would be great to see each of them kick a "bag" (say... 5?) or two, just to prove how dangerous each can be.

Add experienced and mature bodied, Bugg for pressure and presence at ground level can take a mark too, Faosolo and Mc Govern for X factor, to our youngsters and we have potent forward line, very exciting times ahead.

 

[agro]

Still waiting for your throughts on this, Agro:

If the club this person works for rated McAdam at Pick 15, why didn't they offer more than Adelaide's Pick 43 so they could snap up a bargain?

These aren’t my thoughts- but I can tell you the McGovern deal was never going to happen unless Adelaide got McAdam.

 

[gardiner stand]

For years, we have been pretty predictable in our forward line, with the exception of Betts. Even fevola- as good as he was, was pretty predictable. But with some good supply, we now have some interesting permutations that could confound opposition team defence.
1. Mitch is probably THE most unpredictable forward we have - with his ability to mark from anywhere, run, pressure. He plays both tall or short.
2. Charlie has already shown some really miraculous stuff so far, and he will enjoy not being the key focus of defence. I expect his output to really blossom this year.
3.Harry, is reportedly 203 cm now, and yet is super mobile and quick and good below his knees. His mobility belies his height, and he should be a real handful going forward.
4. Fasolo. I understand some peoples reservations about his pressure/defensive game but his real strength lies in his miraculous offensive game that may be hard to close down.
5 small defensive forward- we only need one of polson, bugg, garlett, pickett to step up and take this role
6. Resting dangerous mid. Cripps and kennedy can both take very good grabs. Murphy can be deadly if he spends time forward

I prefer unpredictable but West Coast showed it can be done with a more structured conventional forward line.
Richmond was unpredictable with lots of smalls Butler, Rioli ,castagna,caddy,Martin and Reiwoldt as the tall target but couldn’t back it up so the answer is somewhere in the middle. Finding the balance is the key,not an easy task.

 

[The Bighouse]

I think the real thing we should be talking about is what we rated Garlett at?
It doesn't matter so much for what others rated him, any more than for how others rated Stocker when we had him at #6 and if we're proven to have got the deal wrong, we can discuss that then.

If offers had have come in at this 15-20, then maybe we would have taken him and worked out something else with Adelaide, but they didn't so the only question we should be dealing with here is: What did the CFC rate Garlett at and was he really only taken on to finalise this deal, which was always going to be tricky.?

Which Garlett is this in reference to? Jarrod, and our last pick last year..?

 

[HARKER]

Which Garlett is this in reference to? Jarrod, and our last pick last year..?

Oops. I meant McAdam.