List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[gringo2011]

Our 1st which will be a top 10 pick for Bonar and Caldwell..will GwS do it?

No would be the short answer. They aren't a charity.

 

[gringo2011]

Bonar projects to be a mid-fwd powerhouse in the JDG category. I would absolutely trade a pick between 10-15 for him. Picks are overrated, this campaigner is consistently dominating the level below & on the cusp of being promoted to the best team (or close to) in the competition. Room for growth is huge. Want.

I haven't been keeping tabs on him. How's his form in NEAFL? GWS used to have all their games on line and it was good to watch all the talent and drool over it. The opposition is pretty phenomenally shit in that league though. I reckon I could have got a kick for some of the hick clubs.

 

[VDS66]

Raph

This place gonna lose it's shit come trade week...

 

[triggering bro]

I haven't been keeping tabs on him. How's his form in NEAFL? GWS used to have all their games on line and it was good to watch all the talent and drool over it. The opposition is pretty phenomenally **** in that league though. I reckon I could have got a kick for some of the hick clubs.

In the bests most weeks

http://websites.sportstg.com/team_i...04674584&client=1-8334-112658-477045-26135647

 

[TheJackal]

Big Bonar is having a solid year in the NEAFL, named in the best 5 times, but can't make his way into the seniors.

I still think the Giants will be forced to trade a couple out next year if Coniglio signs and Bonars co tract will go up in 2020.

There were a few rumours that Caldwell will look to return home, not sure how true they are.

The ongoing joke is that you should look at NEAFL stats and divide by three.

Having said that I wouldn't say no to trading for Boner, but I would be focusing on how he plays not what numbers he gets.

Personally I'd be offering a million a year to Taranto if we cant grab Cogs on whatever he wants. Hopefully we can grab one of Boner or Caldwell as steak knives.

 

[Mikka84]

This place gonna lose it's **** come trade week...

I can’t wait.. so many grenades..

 

[XhazzafootyX]

In regards to Bonar, he had 29 touches on the weekend with 8 inside 50s against Brisbane reserves, with Brisbane having some fairly handy Depth/Reserve players in Bastinac, Lyons(corey), Christensen and so on.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Just get me a ready-to-go mid with no existing injuries... surely not too much to ask?

 

[Gangnam Saint]

Is Bonar gettable or are we just fapping here?

 

[nitewalker13]

I can’t wait.. so many grenades..

Incoommiiinngggg

 

[bird_man]

Is Bonar gettable or are we just fapping here?

Not sure, although one thing I am sure about is the cap will be very tight once Coniglio signs so I expect someone to go.

The reason I brought up Bonar is that his contract will go up at the start of next year, putting more pressure on the cap and the fact he can't crack into the 22 light have him looking for opportunities.

They might be desperate to keep him though and choose to let guys like Tomlinson go.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

This place gonna lose it's **** come trade week...

Acres?

 

[Yawkey way]

How long has he been out with that for Y? Like your thinking though.

I think it’s a calf and he just did it but he was slated as a round 1 starter after impressive form only to miss with injury. He has a fairly long history of soft tissue injuries missed the championships with a hammy etc. The thing is when he’s on the park he’s about as good as it gets for a young mid who’s a mix of inside/outside.

Recruiting staff would be all over it of course but that would be a sweet deal if they were confident about keeping him fit.

 

[Yawkey way]

Bonar projects to be a mid-fwd powerhouse in the JDG category. I would absolutely trade a pick between 10-15 for him. Picks are overrated, this campaigner is consistently dominating the level below & on the cusp of being promoted to the best team (or close to) in the competition. Room for growth is huge. Want.

Free agents and kids like Bonar and Caldwell rather than draft picks this year please.

Just take the best kid who drops and our father son/academy picks to meet our requirements. Plus of course any suitable trades we can pull off.

 

[gringo2011]

Acres?

There are going to be some really big risky calls if they trade favourite players and move to a new coaching set up then drop away. The players are pretty tight and it's always a risk messing with the social order. If they change things up and go backwards, you can't see the board surviving. Especially if Lethlean and co are seen to be appointing mates to roles. It will be interesting to see what we do. The list is still pretty poor but results are good, I can see us doing a North Melbourne and struggling if the draw makes life harder for us next year. That said the list has so much youth it could go the other way.

I'm more conservative and prefer not to do anything stupid. I'd probably keep any good players and just go back to sensible drafting. We have blown all our future picks for so many years in a row, at some point we just have to live with what we have.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Do we really need Bing? And at the cost? I’d be leaving him alone, probably until after his first contract ends. Imagine he doesn’t amount to much and we throw in a very high pick. We now have some tall depth.

Look would normally agree but here is the combo that would be great ..imagine.

Marshall & B King rotating rucks

12 months time playing under the roof at Marvel .

Imagine a team that if fully fit had Membrey , Battle , M King as forwards .

Marshall goes off for a rest after being 1st ruck , Ben King in the ruck and around the ground
Then Max King goes off the ground for a rest , Ben King goes forward & Marshall back in the ruck.

Understand you can wait for Ben King to come out of contract but I wouldn’t , get the player while you can .
Also gives you a player who can play , back , ruck & forward.

Where did this idea that we have tall depth come from?

Forwards over 190cm we have Bruce (solid and reliable), Paddy (who may never play again), King (who has never played and is coming off a knee reco), and some new kid that 4 weeks ago was playing WAFL reserves. That's it!

Key backman we have Carlisle (long term back problems), Brown (north of 30), and Rowe (also north of 30 and was playing state league a month ago).

We do have plenty of mid-size backs, but Clav, Joyce, Battle, Wilkie, Marsh, Austin and Coff don't really have the height or build to play the main KPD on someone like a Kennedy / Cox / Daniher - or take a resting Ruck. Joyce maybe at a stretch, but he is a walking free kick. Clav maybe down the road, but for now he is the best part of 20kg lighter than Brown (who is often undersized anyway) and he was drafted as a 3rd tall. Austin is realistically the best option, but this coach is not going to play him.

Sure Battle and Membery can pinch hit as key talls, but no way we can rely on that week in week out if we want to challenge. Realistically there needs to be two big bodied KPP options at either end realistically available for selection, and at least another one or two depth / developing options running around in the seconds. That would be depth. Assuming Paddy and Rowe retire (and Brown too in the next year or so) that conservatively leaves us 4 KPP's light.

Ask yourself this. Next year, who plays on Daniher or Cox if Carlisle is injured? An almost 32yo Brown? A 31yo Rowe? A backman like Clav, Joyce, Battle, Marsh or Wilkie that have all played less than 20 games and much more importantly would give away at least 15cm and 15kg? They are third tall options. Second in a crisis. Maybe instead we swing Marshall back and ruck Longer full time? Ouch!

Seriously, where did this idea of tall depth come from? Look forward a year and the genuine KPP's that we can reliably count on being ready to play are Bruce and Carlisle. 3 if you include King (and that is a big if as he has only played 3 VFL games and is coming off a knee reco). That's maybe half what we need. After that you are really stretching the definition of a ready to go KPP to include anyone else. We actually have zero tall depth and that is a big part of why our seconds get flogged most weeks they play AFL aligned sides.

Bing would be a really great start, but we also have to find another one or two other genuine KPP options ASAP

 

[Mikka84]

Where did this idea that we have tall depth come from?

Forwards over 190cm we have Bruce (solid and reliable), Paddy (who may never play again), King (who has never played and is coming off a knee reco), and some new kid that 4 weeks ago was playing WAFL reserves. That's it!

Key backman we have Carlisle (long term back problems), Brown (north of 30), and Rowe (also north of 30 and was playing state league a month ago).

We do have plenty of mid-size backs, but Clav, Joyce, Battle, Wilkie, Marsh, Austin and Coff don't really have the height or build to play the main KPD on someone like a Kennedy / Cox / Daniher - or take a resting Ruck. Joyce maybe at a stretch, but he is a walking free kick. Clav maybe down the road, but for now he is the best part of 20kg lighter than Brown (who is often undersized anyway) and he was drafted as a 3rd tall anyway. Austin is realistically the best option, but this coach is not going to play him.

Sure Battle and Membery can pinch hit as talls, but you cant rely on that week in week out. Realistically there needs to be two bigger bodied options than them available for realistic selection the ones, and at least another one or two depth / developing options running around in the seconds. That would be depth. Assuming Paddy and Rowe retire (and Brown too in the next year or so) that conservatively leaves us 4 KPP's light.

Ask yourself this. Next year, who plays on Daniher or Cox if Carlisle is injured? An almost 32yo Brown? A 31yo Rowe? A backman like Clav, Joyce, Battle, Marsh or Wilkie that have all played less than 20 games and much more importantly would give away at least 15cm and 15kg? Or maybe we swing Marshall back and ruck Longer full time? Ouch!

Seriously, where did this idea of tall depth come from? Look forward a year and the genuine KPP's that we can reliably count on being ready to play are Bruce and Carlisle. 3 if you include King (and that is a big if as he has only played 3 VFL games and is coming off a knee reco). That's maybe half what we need. We actually have zero tall depth and that is a big part of why our seconds get flogged most weeks they play AFL aligned sides.

Bing would be a great start, but we also have to find another one or two KPP options ASAP

We also need mids and another ruck.. one hell of an off season coming up.

 

[The Enemy Within]

Fletcher Roberts out of favor at WB he would be worth taking @ 196cm.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Where did this idea that we have tall depth come from?

Forwards over 190cm we have Bruce (solid and reliable), Paddy (who may never play again), King (who has never played and is coming off a knee reco), and some new kid that 4 weeks ago was playing WAFL reserves. That's it!

Key backman we have Carlisle (long term back problems), Brown (north of 30), and Rowe (also north of 30 and was playing state league a month ago).

We do have plenty of mid-size backs, but Clav, Joyce, Battle, Wilkie, Marsh, Austin and Coff don't really have the height or build to play the main KPD on someone like a Kennedy / Cox / Daniher - or take a resting Ruck. Joyce maybe at a stretch, but he is a walking free kick. Clav maybe down the road, but for now he is the best part of 20kg lighter than Brown (who is often undersized anyway) and he was drafted as a 3rd tall. Austin is realistically the best option, but this coach is not going to play him.

Sure Battle and Membery can pinch hit as key talls, but no way we can rely on that week in week out if we want to challenge. Realistically there needs to be two big bodied KPP options at either end realistically available for selection, and at least another one or two depth / developing options running around in the seconds. That would be depth. Assuming Paddy and Rowe retire (and Brown too in the next year or so) that conservatively leaves us 4 KPP's light.

Ask yourself this. Next year, who plays on Daniher or Cox if Carlisle is injured? An almost 32yo Brown? A 31yo Rowe? A backman like Clav, Joyce, Battle, Marsh or Wilkie that have all played less than 20 games and much more importantly would give away at least 15cm and 15kg? They are third tall options. Second in a crisis. Maybe instead we swing Marshall back and ruck Longer full time? Ouch!

Seriously, where did this idea of tall depth come from? Look forward a year and the genuine KPP's that we can reliably count on being ready to play are Bruce and Carlisle. 3 if you include King (and that is a big if as he has only played 3 VFL games and is coming off a knee reco). That's maybe half what we need. After that you are really stretching the definition of a ready to go KPP to include anyone else. We actually have zero tall depth and that is a big part of why our seconds get flogged most weeks they play AFL aligned sides.

Bing would be a really great start, but we also have to find another one or two other genuine KPP options ASAP

Compare all of that to the midfield.

You don’t need to be 6’5+ to be a good defender.

Each to their own, but I’d personally be favouring using picks (draft or trade) on mids and then some more mids.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Compare all of that to the midfield.

You don’t need to be 6’5+ to be a good defender.

Each to their own, but I’d personally be favouring using picks (draft or trade) on mids and then some more mids.

I absolutely never said we don't need midfielders. I agree we do.

Rather the above was responding to your assertion that we have tall depth. I just don't see how that can be true.

It is absolutely true you don't need to ne 6'5+ to be a good defender. I think JWebb is a great defender. But I dont want to play him on Daniher / Cox / Kennedy etc or a resting ruck. To do that you do need to be 6'5+ otherwise you get murdered in the air

Its the problem being pointed out here

We also need mids and another ruck.. one hell of an off season coming up.

We have far too many of the same types. Take our backline. Not counting players over 30 we have:

HBF / BP options (10): Coff, Sav, Geary, Webb, White, Newnes, Rice, Paton, DMac, Hind
3rd tall options (6): Battle, Clav, Joyce, Marsh and I will call Robbo and Wilkie an option here too
Key defender options (2): Carlisle, Austin (maybe although plays closer to a 3rd than a genuine KPP)

Can argue one or two either way, but regardless of exact categorisations that leaves us very short on ready to play tall options (ie depth) and very heavy on flankers in the back half.

Delisting Goddard meant that without Carlisle our options as key defenders are either 30+ (Brown / Rowe), nowhere near ready to play regularly (Clav, Joyce), or are undersized and very likely to get absolutely monstered by anyone 200cm+ and 100kg+ (Marsh, Battle). Anything else is just posters saying that (insert player here who has never really played AFL) will be a long term option for us. Its closer to hopes and dreams than anything tangible.

And that's without touching our forwardline group which outside of Bruce is either likely to retire (Paddy) or been at the club a few weeks and have never played a game of AFL in their life (King / Mayo).

Hence the above comment by Mikka. We have a ridiculous amount of flankers and 3rd talls on our list.

Yes we need to draft mids, but its not an either / or when it comes to fixing our list. We are also going to have to find KPP's from somewhere, because looking forward Carlisle, Bruce and maybe King is simply not enough. That's the price we are paying for not being able to draft AND develop a single genuinely good key tall in over 15 years!

Someone like Clav may break that trend. Fingers crossed. But to just rely on the talls we have would be negligent. Who is our main tall forward if Bruce breaks his leg tomorrow?

Austbury or Tomlinson may work as FA options (replacing Brown). Roberts noted above can also work as handy depth.

Keath, Day Weideman and Wright are also OOC (and have varying levels of appeal without being superstars). But my guess is that most people will look at that list and say they don't want any of those 7 options for some reason or other (which usually ends with I would rather have Rance, Talia or some other star that is completely unattainable). But realistically that is where we are going to have to find some options, as the good KPP's are all signed up long-term.

After that our options are either too old and only 1 year fixes (Henderson, Reid, Frawley), quite average (Hartley, M.Brown, Shoenmakers, Frost, Durdin) or again stretching the definition of a KPP (Marchbank, Logue, Buntine)

The best OOC tall options in the league are probably Carlisle and Marshall!

So we either overpay to get a contracted young tall from somewhere (Hence Stewart's call above to go after Bing every year between now and 2022) or if we cant do that, yes we will have to draft KPP's. People wont like it, but given we are conservatively 3 KPP's short moving forward (and talls take longer to develop) that is the reality.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I have a different take on it.

Current status. Ruck: Marshall. Depth -- Longer and Pierce -- satisfactory . Rowe Emergency only -- Alabaxis may never play.
Full Back. Brown. Future full back Carlisle Depth Joyce . --Satisfactory Marsh/Austin/Wilkie/ Battle Rowe. If necessary. ---Clavarino should develop
Key Forward. We have King/Bruce/Membrey. After that we'd need to bring Battle back there. or use Mayo.

Thing is players develop, they aren't like tinned fish that you pull out of a can and decide if they are good or bad.
Just like Jason Blake ( tall utility ) and Sam Fisher (Forward come 3rd defender ) developed their defensive games, as they got older and stronger. SO can the likes of Joyce , Marsh, and Austin.

A few years ago Joyce probably hadn't touched and AFL ball. Yes he bleeds free kicks , but lets hope he can work on that issue.

Perhaps we shouldn't let Brown go at the end of the year. But by the same token, i wouldn't be keeping Rowe.

Alabaxis 211cm. Long way to go.
Longer 203cm Proof that height isn't everything.
Pierce 203cm
King 202cm Has recovered from his ACL. Key forward only at this time.
Marshall 201cm. Probably versatile enough to play back or forward if we didn't need him in the ruck.
_______________________________
REFERENCE Harris 201 cm
________________________________
Carlisle 200cm. Can play Key Back. Could go forward in a Jam but i don't think he likes it there.
Rowe 199cm
-------------------------------------------
Reference Bliclavs 198cm
-------------------------------------------
Clavarino 197cm Highly rated young player. - Should be able to develop into a key back.
Bruce 197cm. Good at ground level for a big guy but wasn't great when he played defence.
----------------------------------------------
REFERENCE : Davis 197cm
____________________________________

Brown 196cm. Good lockdown/spoiling full back.
Austin 196cm. More of a 3rd tall, not sure if accountable enough as a full back.
McCartin 195cm Probably retire. Key forward only.
--------------------------------------
REFERENCE ::: McGovern 196cm
____________________________
Joyce 195cm. Needs to clean up his game a little but seems suited to a key role.
Roberton 194cm. Will probably retire. Best suited to a rebounding /3rd roll.
Marsh 194cm best suited to a third tall role, but may be able to cover for injury to a key. ( in fact he did that when he played for Collingwood )
____________________________
REference Davis 194cm
____________________________
Battle 193cm. Has been excellent at CHB.
Mayo 192cm
Wilkie 191cm
Coffield 191. Training in a lockdown roll.

Acres 191 -- Seems to get selected as a forward ( and ruck :/) because of his height.
Membrey 190 - No he's not a forward over 190, maybe he has a short neck and long arms. Anyway, he looks and plays effectively as a key forward.
Parker 190
---------------------------

 

[bird_man]

Yeah I'm not sure we really need a other ruck. Marhall looks like he'll be a quality player and Billy is good enough to sit in the VFL and use in case of emergency.

Not too many clubs going around with 2 quality ruckmen on their list so unless someone pops up that is an improvement on Billy and costs stuff all I wouldn't be too worried about chasing another ruck.

 

[OxSaint]

Oh.. I'd imagine the answer to that would be GTFO and DLTDHYOTWO.
What do you think Bonar is worth then? If he's showing the goods then a 1st with a 2nd coming back seem pretty fair to me, though I've seen nothing of him.

Bonar is worth less than Steele was when we got him imo. At best the same. Future 2nd. Caldwell will cost a first though you would think.

First and future 2nd for Caldwell, bonar and gws second this year.

 

[VDS66]

Yeah I'm not sure we really need a other ruck. Marhall looks like he'll be a quality player and Billy is good enough to sit in the VFL and use in case of emergency.

Not too many clubs going around with 2 quality ruckmen on their list so unless someone pops up that is an improvement on Billy and costs stuff all I wouldn't be too worried about chasing another ruck.

I wonder if Billy will stick around TBH?

Just not getting the vibe that he has that killer instinct and drive, looking from the outside.

 

[VDS66]

There are going to be some really big risky calls if they trade favourite players and move to a new coaching set up then drop away. The players are pretty tight and it's always a risk messing with the social order. If they change things up and go backwards, you can't see the board surviving. Especially if Lethlean and co are seen to be appointing mates to roles. It will be interesting to see what we do. The list is still pretty poor but results are good, I can see us doing a North Melbourne and struggling if the draw makes life harder for us next year. That said the list has so much youth it could go the other way.

I'm more conservative and prefer not to do anything stupid. I'd probably keep any good players and just go back to sensible drafting. We have blown all our future picks for so many years in a row, at some point we just have to live with what we have.

Man, you are in for some hurt, then.

The thing I don't understand is that if we keep players and they don't improve, the club gets accused of sticking with plodders.

We can't have it both ways.

If we simply keep players to maintain harmony, and it costs us the opportunity to improve the list then we might as well fold.

Talk about the tail wagging the dog. IMO