List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[Yawkey way]

Future 1st with something back?

I'd love their 2nd to get Boner or similar but they won't give that back. At absolute best a 1st for cunnington and a 3rd?

It’s a difficult one, he’s worth more to a team in contention than to us at present.

There’s no doubt about his quality, he must be in the top couple of inside mids imo but how many does he have left. So many moving parts for us Stuv, Hannebery etc what else it out there etc. I think it will take more to pry him out than we will want to pay and if I was north a bid gun inside mid is just the type I’d want to help being the next crop on. Then you have his contract situation isn’t he a free agent after next year?

 

[Stewart66]

Where did this idea that we have tall depth come from?

Forwards over 190cm we have Bruce (solid and reliable), Paddy (who may never play again), King (who has never played and is coming off a knee reco), and some new kid that 4 weeks ago was playing WAFL reserves. That's it!

Key backman we have Carlisle (long term back problems), Brown (north of 30), and Rowe (also north of 30 and was playing state league a month ago).

We do have plenty of mid-size backs, but Clav, Joyce, Battle, Wilkie, Marsh, Austin and Coff don't really have the height or build to play the main KPD on someone like a Kennedy / Cox / Daniher - or take a resting Ruck. Joyce maybe at a stretch, but he is a walking free kick. Clav maybe down the road, but for now he is the best part of 20kg lighter than Brown (who is often undersized anyway) and he was drafted as a 3rd tall. Austin is realistically the best option, but this coach is not going to play him.

Sure Battle and Membery can pinch hit as key talls, but no way we can rely on that week in week out if we want to challenge. Realistically there needs to be two big bodied KPP options at either end realistically available for selection, and at least another one or two depth / developing options running around in the seconds. That would be depth. Assuming Paddy and Rowe retire (and Brown too in the next year or so) that conservatively leaves us 4 KPP's light.

Ask yourself this. Next year, who plays on Daniher or Cox if Carlisle is injured? An almost 32yo Brown? A 31yo Rowe? A backman like Clav, Joyce, Battle, Marsh or Wilkie that have all played less than 20 games and much more importantly would give away at least 15cm and 15kg? They are third tall options. Second in a crisis. Maybe instead we swing Marshall back and ruck Longer full time? Ouch!

Seriously, where did this idea of tall depth come from? Look forward a year and the genuine KPP's that we can reliably count on being ready to play are Bruce and Carlisle. 3 if you include King (and that is a big if as he has only played 3 VFL games and is coming off a knee reco). That's maybe half what we need. After that you are really stretching the definition of a ready to go KPP to include anyone else. We actually have zero tall depth and that is a big part of why our seconds get flogged most weeks they play AFL aligned sides.

Bing would be a really great start, but we also have to find another one or two other genuine KPP options ASAP

Actually think Marsh will be nice addition size wise .

But agree with Bing would be beautiful addition to team list when you consider

Brown / McCartin / Pierce & Longer will not be there next year highly likely Roberton too

Bing & Brodie from the Suns would be great additions , but think we are definitely trading this year .

As said previously Sier didn’t get Swan’s number by luck, is just the sort of kid you chase for mine.
Out of contract helps ....doubt he waits another year to get opportunities.

Draft both young midfielders & mature age mids from WAFL I’m hoping for.

 

[VDS66]

He's got potential still, that's all. If he goes somewhere else and is a gun it will be more evidence of St Kilda incompetence as well.

And if stays and is a bust, it will be more evidence of incompetence right?

 

[VDS66]

It’s a difficult one, he’s worth more to a team in contention than to us at present.

There’s no doubt about his quality, he must be in the top couple of inside mids imo but how many does he have left. So many moving parts for us Stuv, Hannebery etc what else it out there etc. I think it will take more to pry him out than we will want to pay and if I was north a bid gun inside mid is just the type I’d want to help being the next crop on. Then you have his contract situation isn’t he a free agent after next year?

I'd argue a player like him would put us closer to contention a lot sooner.

 

[gringo2011]

And if stays and is a bust, it will be more evidence of incompetence right?

Nah we'll just say he was played in the wrong position a bit longer. He's actually been very good when playing I his favoured spot. He started to play well the moment I said how shit he was last week.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Here's a stupid comparison:
Players with * plenty of room to improve.

Stephen Milne : Elite Dean Kent : Good
Nick Riewoldt : Elite Josh Bruce : Good
Jason Gram : very good. Shane Savage: Very good
Andrew McQualter :OK Long : OK
Koschitski : OK Membrey : Very Good.
Jones : OK Steele : Very Good.
Ray : OK Newnes : OK
Hayes : Elite Dunstan : OK
Dal Santo: Elite? Ross : Very Good
Goddard : Very Good Acres: OK
Fisher : Elite Battle : Very Good*
Gilbert : Very Good Wilkie : Very Good
Blake : OK Marsh : OK *
Dawson: OK Brown : Good
Baker : OK McKenzie OK *
King : Good Marshall : Good*
Montagna : Very Good Billings * : Very good.
Schneider : Very good Parker : Good *
Ball : Good Gresham : Very good *
Clarke : OK Sinclair : Good *
Dempster : Very Good Phillips: OK
Gardiner : Good Young : OK

Now team A obviously has the elites but how does it bat for depth.
Take out.... Fisher ( Carlisle ) , Montagna( Steven ) , DalSanto ( Hannebery) , Schneider( Lonie ) , Gram ( Webster ), Baker ( Geary ).

What does our 2009 premiership team look like with its replacements.
Gwilt? Eddy? Colm Begley? Young Armo and Steven?

What if Kosi had concussion issues. Zero gamer Tom Lynch?
What if Gilbert had a medical issue. Luke Miles? Eljay Connor?

If we can find/develop some top end talent ( including King, Bytel , Hannebery ) we will have a very strong list.

That’s an excellent point of comparison mate. I like your thinking.

 

[bird_man]

Sorry but I can't get my head around the idea that Marshalls improvement as a ruckman is somehow mutually exclusive to the possibility that he may have also have improved as a forward.

At the moment he is our best option as a ruckman, that's why he's getting picked there - but that doesn't mean that the selectors aren't thinking that jeez if we had another ruck option how good would be to occasionally throw this highly improved player into key forward spot and really stretch the opposition.

So what are you giving up to get a decent ruckman in? One as good as Marshall wouldn't come cheap that is for sure.

And why move a player from a position he's excelling at anyway when we have Max King coming through and we haven't had a decent ruckman in years?

 

[VDS66]

Id be happy with Tomlinson - no trade required and only costs us coin

I'd also have a long look at Cunnington. Norph have made it clear they're happy to move players on to expedite their rebuild. He is a serious player, still only 27 and could be that inside beast we need. Depends on a medical to see how banged up he is but he can play. OOC end of 2020 and surely he leaves then.

Nice little haul.

Would you do our first for Cunninglinguist?

 

[Diehard Saint]

Find the post before we traded him that said he was a star.

Actually he was pretty bad as a tap ruckman but very good around the ground.
I don’t remember too much gnashing of teeth on here when he got traded, except by the media who lambasted us for trading a “future captain.”

 

[Keg on legs]

Nice little haul.

Would you do our first for Cunninglinguist?

I reckon i would. As long as are confident of 5 years out of him. He is a beast

 

[LeonardHayes87]

So we’re likely to have no picks between say 10 and 35/40 in the 2019 draft.

History suggests we will almost certainly trade back into the second round of the draft.

That being the case the question is who goes? Last year it was Hickey. Does Newnes potentially have value?

 

[Mowman]

So we’re likely to have no picks between say 10 and 35/40 in the 2019 draft.

History suggests we will almost certainly trade back into the second round of the draft.

That being the case the question is who goes? Last year it was Hickey. Does Newnes potentially have value?

Newnes is a FA

 

[VDS66]

I reckon i would. As long as are confident of 5 years out of him. He is a beast

I don't think he's gettable.

North can't afford to bottom out IMO.

I reckon they keep him and hopefully leverage the new coach to leverage a big fish.

 

[Confuscius]

Moving a young kid who's excelling in the ruck and held his own against the best in the business in order to see what he's like in another position whilst trading out assets to find someone competent in that ruck role... a role we've struggled to find someone competent in for the best part of a decade now...

I'm sorry but that couldn't be a legitimate suggestion.

 

[bird_man]

So we’re likely to have no picks between say 10 and 35/40 in the 2019 draft.

History suggests we will almost certainly trade back into the second round of the draft.

That being the case the question is who goes? Last year it was Hickey. Does Newnes potentially have value?

As it stands right now our first two picks are 8 and 59.

I wouldn't be trading players just to get picks though. We've gone pretty hard at the draft over the last two year. We've got 3 top 8 picks still trying to find their way into the team.

Unless there is someone the recruiting team thinks we might get overs for or a player they think isn't pulling their weight I'd be more than happy to just take 8, 59 and 64 to the draft and then try to get a FA on top.

 

[plugger66]

Dal Santo works at the Saints, he said Marshall ideally goes into the forward line and rucks part time. He said we need to look at an experienced ruck to bring in. Pretty much said Longer/ Pierce aren't good enough.

Heard that. It’s only his opinion. Heard many others say marshall looks to be a star ruckman in the making. No idea why we would want him as a forward. He seems the proto type ruck.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Here's a stupid comparison:
Players with * plenty of room to improve.

Stephen Milne : Elite Dean Kent : Good
Nick Riewoldt : Elite Josh Bruce : Good
Jason Gram : very good. Shane Savage: Very good
Andrew McQualter :OK Long : OK
Koschitski : OK Membrey : Very Good.
Jones : OK Steele : Very Good.
Ray : OK Newnes : OK
Hayes : Elite Dunstan : OK
Dal Santo: Elite? Ross : Very Good
Goddard : Very Good Acres: OK
Fisher : Elite Battle : Very Good*
Gilbert : Very Good Wilkie : Very Good
Blake : OK Marsh : OK *
Dawson: OK Brown : Good
Baker : OK McKenzie OK *
King : Good Marshall : Good*
Montagna : Very Good Billings * : Very good.
Schneider : Very good Parker : Good *
Ball : Good Gresham : Very good *
Clarke : OK Sinclair : Good *
Dempster : Very Good Phillips: OK
Gardiner : Good Young : OK

Now team A obviously has the elites but how does it bat for depth.
Take out.... Fisher ( Carlisle ) , Montagna( Steven ) , DalSanto ( Hannebery) , Schneider( Lonie ) , Gram ( Webster ), Baker ( Geary ).

What does our 2009 premiership team look like with its replacements.
Gwilt? Eddy? Colm Begley? Young Armo and Steven?

What if Kosi had concussion issues. Zero gamer Tom Lynch?
What if Gilbert had a medical issue. Luke Miles? Eljay Connor?

If we can find/develop some top end talent ( including King, Bytel , Hannebery ) we will have a very strong list.

not to nit pick as what you are saying is pretty bang on but Goddard was not Very good in 2009 he was elite by a fair margin by 2010 he was near on the best player in the comp .. also Blake and Dawson were better than ok.. dawson became a spud post St Kilda and people often forget how reliable and solid he was for us in that 09 10 period, Blake was good rarely beaten in 09 and was our mr fix it if you are going to call Marshall good then Blake deserves the same rating ... and lastly Gardiner i would have as very good ..

 

[VDS66]

As it stands right now our first two picks are 8 and 59.

I wouldn't be trading players just to get picks though. We've gone pretty hard at the draft over the last two year. We've got 3 top 8 picks still trying to find their way into the team.

Unless there is someone the recruiting team thinks we might get overs for or a player they think isn't pulling their weight I'd be more than happy to just take 8, 59 and 64 to the draft and then try to get a FA on top.

I doubt we'd be trading out players for picks TBH.

It would for a player. No point otherwise.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

its a bit hard to say what we are doing at this point of the season but i do wonder if what Pendles mentioned on Twitter about a mid season trade period what or who we would go after and what to this point would we allow to trade out ..
if its a midseason trade i dont think you trade out your best 22 so it would be the fringe players like a Bonar who are not getting a game and finding it hard to crack his teams best 22

 

[SaintsSeptember]

not to nit pick as what you are saying is pretty bang on but Goddard was not Very good in 2009 he was elite by a fair margin by 2010 he was near on the best player in the comp .. also Blake and Dawson were better than ok.. dawson became a spud post St Kilda and people often forget how reliable and solid he was for us in that 09 10 period, Blake was good rarely beaten in 09 and was our mr fix it if you are going to call Marshall good then Blake deserves the same rating ... and lastly Gardiner i would have as very good ..

No problems the point still remains.

Always thought it was a pity Blake didn't go into coaching. ( Pity for us, more money in Business for him ). Anyone who can play the different roles he did without being overly tall, physical or athletic had some pretty good footy brains. He was a bit of a whipping boy back in the day, but probably over it by 2009. ( Raph had the Devo song playing at maximum volume by then.
I've kind of wondered if Marshall could end up being a similar Mr Fixit. He does OK in the ruck , but i can't help thinking he'd be equally at home forward and in defence.

I had trouble thinking of Goddard at that level but looking at the Stats, he really did do a lot in those 2009/2010 seasons.

Dawson i never quite rated. I can give him good. But he was just never the kind of goal proof defender that an in-form Hudghton was. Always had me biting my nails, and seemed to get by on reflexes more than brains. ( which would explain his later decline ). I'm thinking Joyce could easily go past Dawson's best in ability.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

its a bit hard to say what we are doing at this point of the season but i do wonder if what Pendles mentioned on Twitter about a mid season trade period what or who we would go after and what to this point would we allow to trade out ..
if its a midseason trade i dont think you trade out your best 22 so it would be the fringe players like a Bonar who are not getting a game and finding it hard to crack his teams best 22

Armitage for Roughead.

 

[plugger66]

its a bit hard to say what we are doing at this point of the season but i do wonder if what Pendles mentioned on Twitter about a mid season trade period what or who we would go after and what to this point would we allow to trade out ..
if its a midseason trade i dont think you trade out your best 22 so it would be the fringe players like a Bonar who are not getting a game and finding it hard to crack his teams best 22

Think it depends where you are on the ladder. If you are a flag chance and need a ruck and have plenty of mids you may trade a top 10 player. If you are bottom and think draft picks are the way to go you may do the same. We are middle so probably agree with you.

 

[plugger66]

No problems the point still remains.

Always thought it was a pity Blake didn't go into coaching. ( Pity for us, more money in Business for him ). Anyone who can play the different roles he did without being overly tall, physical or athletic had some pretty good footy brains. He was a bit of a whipping boy back in the day, but probably over it by 2009. ( Raph had the Devo song playing at maximum volume by then.
I've kind of wondered if Marshall could end up being a similar Mr Fixit. He does OK in the ruck , but i can't help thinking he'd be equally at home forward and in defence.

I had trouble thinking of Goddard at that level but looking at the Stats, he really did do a lot in those 2009/2010 seasons.

Dawson i never quite rated. I can give him good. But he was just never the kind of goal proof defender that an in-form Hudghton was. Always had me biting my nails, and seemed to get by on reflexes more than brains. ( which would explain his later decline ). I'm thinking Joyce could easily go past Dawson's best in ability.

Bytes could go past Hayes but Joyce has proven nothing. Dawson was names our best finals player in 2009 and maybe even 10

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

16 out of 23 games is not dropped constantly? Savage has always had been in and out too. I rate Savage but he's not a star. Mc Evoy is. If you trade a star for a guy who's depth it's still shithouse.

McEvoy was a very ordinary ruckman when we traded him, he was nowhere near a star. He's developed into a very good ruckman at a club that is renowned as being a great developer of talent.

Trading an ordinary ruckman for a promising player (Sav) and two top 25 picks (Dunstan & Acres) was great decision when it was made.

Your issue should be with what our club does to talented players once they are drafted or traded in. That's the issue IMO.

 

[bird_man]

McEvoy was a very ordinary ruckman when we traded him, he was nowhere near a star. He's developed into a very good ruckman at a club that is renowned as being a great developer of talent.

Trading an ordinary ruckman for a promising player (Sav) and two top 25 picks (Dunstan & Acres) was great decision when it was made.

Your issue should be with what our club does to talented players once they are drafted or traded in. That's the issue IMO.

I don't have an issue with the trade, but it was actually Savage and one pick.

The second pick was a 5 pick upgrade, which did get us Acres, whilst the Hawks took Hartung.

So basically we got 3 best 22 players while the Hawks got a premiership ruckman and a player not on an afl list.

I think it's been a good trade for both clubs.