List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[gringo2011]

Heard that. It’s only his opinion. Heard many others say marshall looks to be a star ruckman in the making. No idea why we would want him as a forward. He seems the proto type ruck.

I guess because it looks like we are struggling to score and Bruce and Membrey aren't great at spilling a ball for the small set up to work as well as it could. It's an idea, I don't think it's that far fetched myself. I don't particularly rate ruck duals, as long as you negate the contest it's good enough. Marshall works there because he gets a few clearances himself but his ruck work isn't outstanding. He's better than Billy or Pierce because he is like an extra around the ground player in the centre. I rate what Marshall is doing now but if they think he can play forward I won't be upset if they try it. I wouldn't be trading for a ruck, I'd be searching for a mature adequate mobile ruck in the state leagues and chuck him on the rookie list while delisting Pierce and Longer.

 

[Mikka84]

Slept on it and I still want Coniglio badly.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Newnes should be pretty happy at the Saints. He gets a game each week at least.
So if he goes as a free agent it would pretty much be for the $$$.

Unless we are seriously under paying him ( i doubt it ) a club chasing him as a free agent would need to pay him a decent amount.
I don't necessarily want Newnes to leave, but if he did , we'd cover his loss ok with up and coming talent ( Paton, Phillips, Clark , Coffield ) and we'd get a second round, or possibly an end of first round compensation pick.

So i'm not sweating on him leaving or not, and i wouldn't over pay him to keep him.

 

[gringo2011]

McEvoy was a very ordinary ruckman when we traded him, he was nowhere near a star. He's developed into a very good ruckman at a club that is renowned as being a great developer of talent.

Trading an ordinary ruckman for a promising player (Sav) and two top 25 picks (Dunstan & Acres) was great decision when it was made.

Your issue should be with what our club does to talented players once they are drafted or traded in. That's the issue IMO.

My issue was that when we can't seem to draft, we went and got draft picks for guy the club was telling us was our next captain. He was a very good mark and sat in the hole in defence, his tap work was average for sure but was building. Him and Stanley are both considered top 5 rucks in the competition, we traded both and now have realised the high price we paid for both Hickey and Longer was a waste of picks. I have no issue with being bold and trading out players but by god you want to get them right if you do. It's like mortgaging the house to go to the casino. Dal Santo, Goddard, Mc Evoy and Stanley for zero players that are anywhere near as good as the players we lost should be seen as gross incompetence.

If we trade out Marshall now for some draft picks would you be happy? I must be the only person on here with high standards. Most seem happy with trades that have ended up making us less competitive. How we persisted with Trout for so long when his track record must have been below the law of averages for finding elite talent makes me wonder about the people in charge.

 

[gringo2011]

No problems the point still remains.

Always thought it was a pity Blake didn't go into coaching. ( Pity for us, more money in Business for him ). Anyone who can play the different roles he did without being overly tall, physical or athletic had some pretty good footy brains. He was a bit of a whipping boy back in the day, but probably over it by 2009. ( Raph had the Devo song playing at maximum volume by then.
I've kind of wondered if Marshall could end up being a similar Mr Fixit. He does OK in the ruck , but i can't help thinking he'd be equally at home forward and in defence.

I had trouble thinking of Goddard at that level but looking at the Stats, he really did do a lot in those 2009/2010 seasons.

Dawson i never quite rated. I can give him good. But he was just never the kind of goal proof defender that an in-form Hudghton was. Always had me biting my nails, and seemed to get by on reflexes more than brains. ( which would explain his later decline ). I'm thinking Joyce could easily go past Dawson's best in ability.

People weren't ready for Zac, he was a loose intercept defender more than a one on one KPB. Now most tall defenders play that way.

 

[BrutThough]

My issue was that when we can't seem to draft, we went and got draft picks for guy the club was telling us was our next captain. He was a very good mark and sat in the hole in defence, his tap work was average for sure but was building. Him and Stanley are both considered top 5 rucks in the competition, we traded both and now have realised the high price we paid for both Hickey and Longer was a waste of picks. I have no issue with being bold and trading out players but by god you want to get them right if you do. It's like mortgaging the house to go to the casino. Dal Santo, Goddard, Mc Evoy and Stanley for zero players that are anywhere near as good as the players we lost should be seen as gross incompetence.

If we trade out Marshall now for some draft picks would you be happy? I must be the only person on here with high standards. Most seem happy with trades that have ended up making us less competitive. How we persisted with Trout for so long when his track record must have been below the law of averages for finding elite talent makes me wonder about the people in charge.

Stanley has played some good games this year but calling him a top 5 ruck in the competition is taking this way too far.

 

[gringo2011]

Stanley has played some good games this year but calling him a top 5 ruck in the competition is taking this way too far.

Listen to SEN and they did a run down on the best rucks, most consider him the third best in the comp now he's the main man. Someone suggested he should be ahead of Gawn who has dropped off. Mc Evoy fourth. Who would you have in front of him based on this year not reputation? He's having a break out year and like a more mature Marshall with extra responsibility.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I guess because it looks like we are struggling to score and Bruce and Membrey aren't great at spilling a ball for the small set up to work as well as it could. It's an idea, I don't think it's that far fetched myself. I don't particularly rate ruck duals, as long as you negate the contest it's good enough. Marshall works there because he gets a few clearances himself but his ruck work isn't outstanding. He's better than Billy or Pierce because he is like an extra around the ground player in the centre. I rate what Marshall is doing now but if they think he can play forward I won't be upset if they try it. I wouldn't be trading for a ruck, I'd be searching for a mature adequate mobile ruck in the state leagues and chuck him on the rookie list while delisting Pierce and Longer.

I can't see that we will be in a position to de-list both Pierce and Longer.
But i'm not looking forward to the thread where we discuss which one we should keep.

Do you have any state league rucks in mind Gringo, because the AFL have been looking there pretty hard lately, and unless you want to replace someone like Longer with someone like Zac Clarke ( pointless in my view ) its not going to be easy.

Right now we have 6 on our rookie list.
Wilkie - Surely promoted onto the main list.
Joyce - good depth with the ability to improve. I hope he's promoted.
Pierce - occasional glimpses but after 7 seasons , i'd rather try to develop someone else. -- Delist
Langlands - Only his second year. Still has stacks of potential, been unlucky with injury. I hope he does enough to be retained as a rookie.
Mayo - I guess i assume he will be on our rookie list next season.
Alabaxis. - Cat 2 Rookie. I expect it will take at least another season. It would be great if he could get to a level where he can be used as back up.

Its a bit awkward, if we want to de-list Pierce we really need a development ruck , who can at least do "something" at AFL level with potential to improve.
If we can get one, we just keep Longer, ( the way other clubs keep Zac Clark etc ) , otherwise we need to keep Pierce as well and hope Alabaxis gets to that level.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Listen to SEN and they did a run down on the best rucks, most consider him the third best in the comp now he's the main man. Someone suggested he should be ahead of Gawn who has dropped off. Mc Evoy fourth. Who would you have in front of him based on this year not reputation? He's having a break out year and like a more mature Marshall with extra responsibility.

A more mature Marshall will be way better than a more mature Stanley.
Its good for Rhys that he's managing to stay on the park these days though.
Was really frustrating with the Saints, he was never fit when we needed him.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

No problems the point still remains.

Always thought it was a pity Blake didn't go into coaching. ( Pity for us, more money in Business for him ). Anyone who can play the different roles he did without being overly tall, physical or athletic had some pretty good footy brains. He was a bit of a whipping boy back in the day, but probably over it by 2009. ( Raph had the Devo song playing at maximum volume by then.
I've kind of wondered if Marshall could end up being a similar Mr Fixit. He does OK in the ruck , but i can't help thinking he'd be equally at home forward and in defence.

I had trouble thinking of Goddard at that level but looking at the Stats, he really did do a lot in those 2009/2010 seasons.

Dawson i never quite rated. I can give him good. But he was just never the kind of goal proof defender that an in-form Hudghton was. Always had me biting my nails, and seemed to get by on reflexes more than brains. ( which would explain his later decline ). I'm thinking Joyce could easily go past Dawson's best in ability.

when i think to the way we used to hang on the whipping boys back in those days i guess now days without the elites in the team its harder to pin point a single whipping boy in the team hence we dont really have one...
lets agree to disagree on Dawson .. i get what you are saying about him always having us biting our nails when the ball came his way when Maxy we were pretty confident each time the ball came in his direction but to Dawsons credit while we were nervey with him he stood up and won the contest more than he lost it ... considering the quality of forwards he faced in his career i think he did a remarkable job .. he finished up woefully but in his prime with us he was very good

 

[Gosaints12]

I can't see that we will be in a position to de-list both Pierce and Longer.
But i'm not looking forward to the thread where we discuss which one we should keep.

Do you have any state league rucks in mind Gringo, because the AFL have been looking there pretty hard lately, and unless you want to replace someone like Longer with someone like Zac Clarke ( pointless in my view ) its not going to be easy.

Right now we have 6 on our rookie list.
Wilkie - Surely promoted onto the main list.
Joyce - good depth with the ability to improve. I hope he's promoted.
Pierce - occasional glimpses but after 7 seasons , i'd rather try to develop someone else. -- Delist
Langlands - Only his second year. Still has stacks of potential, been unlucky with injury. I hope he does enough to be retained as a rookie.
Mayo - I guess i assume he will be on our rookie list next season.
Alabaxis. - Cat 2 Rookie. I expect it will take at least another season. It would be great if he could get to a level where he can be used as back up.

Its a bit awkward, if we want to de-list Pierce we really need a development ruck , who can at least do "something" at AFL level with potential to improve.
If we can get one, we just keep Longer, ( the way other clubs keep Zac Clark etc ) , otherwise we need to keep Pierce as well and hope Alabaxis gets to that level.

Pierce shows more then Longer if we had to keep one it be Pierce, just.


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[BrutThough]

Listen to SEN and they did a run down on the best rucks, most consider him the third best in the comp now he's the main man. Someone suggested he should be ahead of Gawn who has dropped off. Mc Evoy fourth. Who would you have in front of him based on this year not reputation? He's having a break out year and like a more mature Marshall with extra responsibility.

1. Grundy
2. Gawn
3. Witts
4. Goldstien
5. McEvoy

These 5 are comfortably in front of Stanley. He is in that next bracket with Sinclair, Martin, Mumford, Nankervis where they have some really good games where they can be best on but also a decent amount of average games.

If you compare Marshall's year to Stanley's, they aren't that different with the numbers they are producing - except one is 23 and the other is 28. If it has taken him 10 years in the system to have what could be considered a 'break-out year' then we aren't missing out on much when a 23 year old in his first season of rucking is able to do similar things.

 

[gringo2011]

Pierce shows more then Longer if we had to keep one it be Pierce, just.


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I think Pierce has had a serious concussion and might be touch and go any way. Longer doesn't give too many ****s if he plays or not IMO. Both probably are charity to keep on the list.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Listen to SEN and they did a run down on the best rucks, most consider him the third best in the comp now he's the main man. Someone suggested he should be ahead of Gawn who has dropped off. Mc Evoy fourth. Who would you have in front of him based on this year not reputation? He's having a break out year and like a more mature Marshall with extra responsibility.

thats a case of the top of the ladder team having their players over rates ... Rhys is going ok but he is not in the top 5 rucks ...
if we did an open draft of rucks therse no way he get picked the 5th best

 

[gringo2011]

1. Grundy
2. Gawn
3. Witts
4. Goldstien
5. McEvoy

These 5 are comfortably in front of Stanley. He is in that next bracket with Sinclair, Martin, Mumford, Nankervis where they have some really good games where they can be best on but also a decent amount of average games.

If you compare Marshall's year to Stanley's, they aren't that different with the numbers they are producing - except one is 23 and the other is 28. If it has taken him 10 years in the system to have what could be considered a 'break-out year' then we aren't missing out on much when a 23 year old in his first season of rucking is able to do similar things.

To be fair to Rhys he's never been a full time ruck. Circumstance has given him a chance.

 

[gringo2011]

thats a case of the top of the ladder team having their players over rates ... Rhys is going ok but he is not in the top 5 rucks ...
if we did an open draft of rucks therse no way he get picked the 5th best

How much Cats games have you watched? It's on 2019 not the past.

 

[gringo2011]

1. Grundy
2. Gawn
3. Witts
4. Goldstien
5. McEvoy

These 5 are comfortably in front of Stanley. He is in that next bracket with Sinclair, Martin, Mumford, Nankervis where they have some really good games where they can be best on but also a decent amount of average games.

If you compare Marshall's year to Stanley's, they aren't that different with the numbers they are producing - except one is 23 and the other is 28. If it has taken him 10 years in the system to have what could be considered a 'break-out year' then we aren't missing out on much when a 23 year old in his first season of rucking is able to do similar things.

Witts has been competitive but he's not a great player. Goldy is hot and cold, Mc Evoy was going really well but is injured etc. Based on 2019 they think he's better.

 

[gringo2011]

A more mature Marshall will be way better than a more mature Stanley.
Its good for Rhys that he's managing to stay on the park these days though.
Was really frustrating with the Saints, he was never fit when we needed him.

You would assume so but plenty have failed to meet potential as well.

 

[BrutThough]

Witts has been competitive but he's not a great player. Goldy is hot and cold, Mc Evoy was going really well but is injured etc. Based on 2019 they think he's better.

Witts is underrated because he plays up in Queensland for a terrible team. He is a beast. Most teams would be better if he was their ruckman.
Goldy can be hot and cold but his off games are still better or equal to what most rucks produce every week.

I still think all three have been better than Stanley this year. A few good games for Stanley doesn't instantly make him a great ruckman.

 

[plugger66]

I guess because it looks like we are struggling to score and Bruce and Membrey aren't great at spilling a ball for the small set up to work as well as it could. It's an idea, I don't think it's that far fetched myself. I don't particularly rate ruck duals, as long as you negate the contest it's good enough. Marshall works there because he gets a few clearances himself but his ruck work isn't outstanding. He's better than Billy or Pierce because he is like an extra around the ground player in the centre. I rate what Marshall is doing now but if they think he can play forward I won't be upset if they try it. I wouldn't be trading for a ruck, I'd be searching for a mature adequate mobile ruck in the state leagues and chuck him on the rookie list while delisting Pierce and Longer.

So based on that king plays where next year?

 

[Yawkey way]

Ah the who’s a better ruckman discussion, this is something new.

Longer is clearly our backup assuming he’s fit, on occasions he has played decent games against good opposition. Pierce has down next to nothing over how many years?. I can’t see Marshall playing as a forward, I’m sure he’d be a decent option but we need him in the ruck and once king starts playing we don’t need another tall forward.

 

[Ducky Tie]

I reckon from the way Marshall spoke in his interview on the podcast about future goals, he's certainly keen to become a top level ruckman (obviously not up to him but still).

The only way I can see him moving back forward is if we develop a developing ruckman who comes along much quicker and better than expected.

 

[plugger66]

Witts has been competitive but he's not a great player. Goldy is hot and cold, Mc Evoy was going really well but is injured etc. Based on 2019 they think he's better.

Rhys is going well but Ben is clearly ahead. He has been injured for 2 weeks. Big deal.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

People weren't ready for Zac, he was a loose intercept defender more than a one on one KPB. Now most tall defenders play that way.

That wasn't by design , he just happened to be loose.
Hawks had delisted him.

 

[gringo2011]

So based on that king plays where next year?

Depends on how he comes on I guess. Tall forwards are usually pretty slow to develop and our last high draft pick tall forward is still waiting to get on the park after 5 years or so.