Preview 2020 AFL National Draft thread

[King Corey]

Spoiler: Lore's 2020 Draft Order

 

[susurrar]

I'm not sure I've ever been 'in'.

I've said here a few times that he reminds me a bit of Cam Rayner. I will conceded that Hollands is more skillful than Rayner, but I'm not convinced Hollands ever makes the transition to midfield, similar to what I felt about Rayner.

I have Hollands at #11 overall in this draft. I think his potential is huge if he ever does make the transition to midfield but in watching his games last year I just wasn't convinced that he would make it as anything more than a really skillful half forward flanker.

I think he could be a 40 goal a year half forward flanker but full time mid? Not so sure

interesting post. thanks.

call me crazy but i wasnt that impressed by the hollands highlights tape. i saw all the posts raving about it before i saw the video, so my expectations were high. sure, he looks all right. a lot of basic mark and kick. would like to see more of his midfield work.

 

[Supreme_Chancellor]

That would be a bitterly disappointing selection.

 

[Tarka_Dal]

Having 2 first rounders gives us greater opportunity to trade out one of them to a team with NGA players available, who want to get up the draft order before a bid comes in. Say for instance we end up with pick 2, and the Crows don't bid on JUH at 1. The Dogs may offer us a whole lot of draft capital to move up and get a top end player, and still get JUH. This was possibly the rationale behind last years trade with the Dees.

 

[New_Roo]

I think Mark Finnigan might have been referring to 2019 and 2020 drafts when he said that given the 2019 draft hadn't happened yet at that point.

Yes pretty sure that's what he meant


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[New_Roo]

Having 2 first rounders gives us greater opportunity to trade out one of them to a team with NGA players available, who want to get up the draft order before a bid comes in. Say for instance we end up with pick 2, and the Crows don't bid on JUH at 1. The Dogs may offer us a whole lot of draft capital to move up and get a top end player, and still get JUH. This was possibly the rationale behind last years trade with the Dees.

But they wouldn't do anything with us until they know ade won't bid though? So be on the night and then be too late?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Souup]

Whoa.... if he hadn’t done his ACL he would have been the biggest slam dunk no.1 pick in the last 10 years... including Rowell.

as it stands he is far more likely to go no.1 to Adelaide than he is to slip out of the top 5.

I think he will be a dominant mid for years, but his tricks and goal sense will get him games as a forward straight away..

Obviously every one has different opinions and we both might be way off... but Hollands seems like the one we have dreamt about.

Sorry mate but this isn't true at all. Throughout most of last year Thilthorpe and Phillips were the 2 names be touted as likely number 1 (if we're not including NGA players such as JUH who's been talked as being the cream of this crop for a couple of years now). DGB entered talks seriously after the Under 18's Champs. The Dal Santo-Brown game is what catapulted Hollands into number 1 talks as he played a decent portion of that game in the midfield (~50-60%) and played well. That game moved him from a potential top 10 pick to number 1 talks IF he could consolidate that with some impressive midfield performances in the TAC.

There are no doubts around his skill set and potential - I think he's one of the most well-rounded talents to come through in a while. The one issue he has is finding the ball on a large scale - particularly in the contest, which is exactly what you need if you want to be a midfielder.

There's a sense in which he is a risk, but isn't at the same time. If you're hoping for Bontempelli/Fyfe then there's a decent chance you'll be disappointed. If you're happy to concede that with taking him comes the risk of him ending up a 40 goal a year 15-20 touch a game half forward then he isn't a huge risk.

He really could be anything - I'm not saying he will never be a gun midfielder, he absolutely could be - it's just unlikely

 

[LB2Snake]

Sorry mate but this isn't true at all. Throughout most of last year Thilthorpe and Phillips were the 2 names be touted as likely number 1 (if we're not including NGA players such as JUH who's been talked as being the cream of this crop for a couple of years now). DGB entered talks seriously after the Under 18's Champs. The Dal Santo-Brown game is what catapulted Hollands into number 1 talks as he played a decent portion of that game in the midfield and played well. That game moved him from a potential top 10 pick to number 1 talks IF he could consolidate that with some impressive midfield performances in the TAC.

There are no doubts around his skill set and potential - I think he's one of the most well-rounded talents to come through in a while. The one issue he has is finding the ball on a large scale - particularly in the contest, which is exactly what you need if you want to be a midfielder.

There's a sense in which he is a risk, but isn't at the same time. If you're hoping for Bontempelli/Fyfe then there's a decent chance you'll be disappointed. If you're happy to concede that with taking him comes the risk of him ending up a 40 goal a year 15-20 touch a game half forward then he isn't a huge risk.

He really could be anything - I'm not saying he will never be a gun midfielder, he absolutely could be - it's just unlikely

Hey Souup , do you remember in Jy’s draft year, or previous couple to his actual draft year, was he considered a mid or more ya mid/forward? I only ask as Jy has pretty seamlessly become a full time mid for us.
Your thoughts on Holland are really interesting as I too would be in the Phillyroo camp of Hollands being a slam dunk. But his highlights video does look a lot more like a mid that just a forward. So you wouldn’t see him transitioning into a full time mid clearly. He certainly looks a fairly large “class above” someone like a Curtis Taylor, for example, who I would see more in Forward type you are describing Hollands as.

 

[Souup]

A taller Isak Rankine?

Funny you should mention Rankine. For all the talk about how great Elijah Hollands' highlights are they don't come close to what Rankine was putting together in his draft year (granted we haven't seen Hollands in his draft year) (Rankine draft year highlights: )

Rankine is a lot more agile than Hollands. Although I must say that Rankine may be one of the most agile players I've ever seen on a footy field.

It actually brings up one of the issues I see with Hollands is that he's not particularly strong in any athletic category. I'm not sure he sets himself apart from the rest with anything else apart from his skills. He's extremely clean below his knees (which buys him a lot of time) and knows how to use his body in a marking contest to protect the drop zone which are hugely underrated skills. But he doesn't have a great top speed (or doesn't show it on the field), isn't particularly agile, he doesn't out-muscle his opponent and he also doesn't have an elite endurance base.

Also take note in his highlights video how often he's winning his own ball. He's often on the end of a handball or taking a mark on the lead - again, this is due to him mostly playing as a forward flanker and the nature of the position. But it reiterates my issue with him - he just doesn't seem to be a natural midfielder at this stage. The hope is that he transitions to being one, but there's a lot of work to be done for him to get there.

 

[Souup]

Hey Souup , do you remember in Jy’s draft year, or previous couple to his actual draft year, was he considered a mid or more ya mid/forward? I only ask as Jy has pretty seamlessly become a full time mid for us.
Your thoughts on Holland are really interesting as I too would be in the Phillyroo camp of Hollands being a slam dunk. But his highlights video does look a lot more like a mid that just a forward. So you wouldn’t see him transitioning into a full time mid clearly. He certainly looks a fairly large “class above” someone like a Curtis Taylor, for example, who I would see more in Forward type you are describing Hollands as.

Sorry mate only got into following juniors the beginning of 2018. Jy was before my time!

 

[LB2Snake]

Funny you should mention Rankine. For all the talk about how great Elijah Hollands' highlights are they don't come close to what Rankine was putting together in his draft year (granted we haven't seen Hollands in his draft year)

Rankine is a lot more agile than Hollands. Although I must say that Rankine may be one of the most agile players I've ever seen on a footy field.

It actually brings up one of the issues I see with Hollands is that he's not particularly strong in any athletic category. I'm not sure he sets himself apart from the rest with anything else apart from his skills. He's extremely clean below his knees (which buys him a lot of time) and knows how to use his body in a marking contest to protect the drop zone which are hugely underrated skills. But he doesn't have a great top speed (or doesn't show it on the field), isn't particularly agile, he doesn't out-muscle his opponent and he also doesn't have an elite endurance base.

Also take note in his highlights video how often he's winning his own ball. He's often on the end of a handball or taking a mark on the lead - again, this is due to him mostly playing as a forward flanker and the nature of the position. But it reiterates my issue with him - he just doesn't seem to be a natural midfielder at this stage. The hope is that he transitions to being one, but there's a lot of work to be done for him to get there.

So who would you most compare Hollands to thats currently playing AFL?
I'm also very interested in your thoughts on Phillips and others .
Who would you take with the first pick in this draft and if we had pick 2 who would you take?

 

[Waussie]

WAFL colts notebook: Round five

Jai Jackson made an impressive start to his new club, Heath Chapman and Corey Rundle continued their hot form, while Nathan O’Driscoll and Cameron Anderson earned a promotion.

thewest.com.au

WAFL colts notebook: Jai Jackson, Nathan O’Driscoll, Heath Chapman, Logan Guelfi, Ty Sears, Sandon Page & more

Jordan McArdle
The West Australian
Mon, 17 August 2020

West Perth 17.10 (112) d Perth 3.4 (34)
First-round draft fancy Heath Chapman starred as West Perth made it five wins from as many starts against Perth at Mineral Resources Park on Saturday.
Captain Chapman was best-afield as the ladder-leading Falcons remained undefeated with a 78-point thrashing of the Demons, with 28 disposals at 86 per cent efficiency to go with seven marks.
The intercept-marking defender’s draft stocks are rising, with Fremantle and West Coast already showing interest along with several interstate clubs.
He was part of a well-organised Falcons back-six with Ethan Bradford keeping dangerous Demons forward Harry Quartermaine goalless for the first time this season and State 16s squad member Kane Bevan and Rohan Scurria also playing their roles.
Colts leading goal-kicker Corey Rundle’s sublime set shot was on song after an early blemish running into an open goal, booting five majors in a powerful display to take his season tally to 20.
Callum Johnson was prolific through the midfield as usual with 33 touches and two goals, with silky-skilled on-baller Luke Reilly also prominent with 27 and two.
Brady Alvaro was lively on the wing and Darcy Dixon did some good things up forward with 2.3 and a few unselfish score assists.
Tough mid Conor McPartland was the shining light for the Demons with a hard-working display, finishing with an equal game-high 33 touches to go with six clearances, six tackles and a goal.
Zak Meloncelli and Zac Sanderson also found plenty of the footy, ruckman Jaiden Hunter competed well against Michael Mallard and Deklyn Grocott kicked a couple of goals.
Perth were missing their best two players with key forward Logan McDonald dominating in the league side and midfielder Nathan O’Driscoll earning a promotion to the reserves.
McDonald could soon be joined by O’Driscoll is closing in on a senior berth after earning the players’ player award, impressing in his inside and outside midfield roles in a winning side.

Claremont 12.6 (78) d East Perth 5.8 (38)
Like ladder leaders West Perth, reigning premiers Claremont remained undefeated for season 2020 with a comfortable 40-point win over East Perth at Leederville Oval.
Sam Alvarez was best-afield with a game-high 25 possessions to go with four tackles and three inside 50s, with Logan Young (22 disposals and a goal) and Jake Willson (21 and five inside 50s) also working hard through the middle.
Dylan Mulligan made the most of his opportunities up forward, booting 5.0 from 11 touches, while Jack Avery and Jacob Blight were reliable as ever down back.
Logan Guelfi, the younger brother of Essendon’s Matt, was his lively self across half-forward with 22 touches, six inside 50s, five tackles and two goals.
In-form speedster Cameron Anderson earned a promotion to the reserves and found a bit of it, while draft fancy Joel Western is a good chance to return from hamstring injury this week.
Josh Hubbard, Riley May, Jake Littleton, Jayden Peak, Luke Lombardi and Zac Dronow battled hard in a losing cause for the Royals, while Jye Amiss (3.3) was in everything up forward.

Subiaco 22.8 (140) d Peel Thunder 7.7 (49)
Subiaco were the biggest winners of the weekend, thrashing Peel Thunder by 91 points in Mandurah.
Former East Fremantle midfielder Jai Jackson impressed in his colts debut for his new club, amassing 21 possessions and booting two goals across half-forward.
The Chapman Valley product joined the Lions this month and is likely to push for senior selection in the coming weeks.
Lachlan McKay was the star of the show up forward with six majors, with Sandon Page, who has 13 majors in three colts appearances after starting in the reserves, chiming in with five and silky-skilled forward Tyler Brockman three.
Jake South was the premier big man on the ground with 39 hit-outs and 17 possessions, while Lachie Vanirsen (23 disposals, six marks and a goal) tough nut Jed Kemp (21 disposals and four tackles) continued their hot form.
Isiah Winder, who made his league debut a fortnight ago, was Peel’s best with 27 possessions and eight marks, with fellow State Talent Academy squad member Luke Polson competed strongly around the ground.
Jaxon Egan and Zac Trigwell were decent up forward with two goals apiece.

South Fremantle 9.8 (62) d Swan Districts 6.16 (52)
A fast-finishing South Fremantle overcame a wayward Swan Districts by 10 points at Fremantle Community Bank Oval.
The Bulldogs took the lead at the five-minute mark of the final term and held on for a 9.8 (62) to 6.16 (52) victory.
Shannon Neale, rated alongside Claremont beanpole Kalin Lane as WA’s premier big man in this year’s draft, continued his strong season with 15 possessions and 21 hit-outs.
Jaxon Bellchambers was a really hard worker with 19 touches, 10 tackles, five marks and a goal.
Baxter Jones and Jacob Plunkett kicked two majors apiece.
For the Swans, midfielder Ayden Cartwright was prolific through the midfield with a game-high 29 disposals and four tackles.
Cartwright has been a shining light in the absence of big-bodied mid Zane Trew, who missed his second consecutive game with concussion.
Draft hopeful Ty Sears was lively with 21 touches, six inside 50s and a goal.
Luke Taylor, the younger brother of GWS Giant Sam, was decent up forward with two goals.
Hale School captain and West Coast Next Generation Academy talent Lawson Humphries did some good things on debut.

I watched Lawson Humphries play a couple of weeks ago, wow! He's got talent.

 

[marklovesbeer]

F### me that Hollands highlight reel giantroo

What page is it on mate?
Thanks.

 

[the big lebowski]

So who would you most compare Hollands to thats currently playing AFL?
I'm also very interested in your thoughts on Phillips and others .
Who would you take with the first pick in this draft and if we had pick 2 who would you take?

I see a fair bit of degoey. Maybe slightly less brute force and more silky skills.

 

[Souup]

So who would you most compare Hollands to thats currently playing AFL?
I'm also very interested in your thoughts on Phillips and others .
Who would you take with the first pick in this draft and if we had pick 2 who would you take?

I honestly don't have a comparison - he's very unique. I know that's probably a bit annoying but you get a general gauge of his movement, skills and general play style based on the highlights.

I think throw a blanket over Phillips, DGB, McDonald, Cox and Thilthorpe. They're my personal top 5 and they all play a different area of the ground (except for Cox and DGB who both play defense) - I think we just pick whatever type of player we think we need the most.

Phillips is the player you get if you take 75% of Tom Mitchell and 25% of Ben Cunnington and mesh them together.
DGB is your typical courageous intercept defender. He could play tall or small, on a man or as the loose. Excellent skills.
I compared McDonald to Riewoldt a while ago now. He has that endurance base that allows him to find the ball up the ground by running his opponent off their feet. He's no slouch in the air either and is good below his knees when the ball hits the deck.
Thilthorpe is basically Kreuzer MK2 but Thilthorpe is a better forward.
Cox just reminds me of Dustin Fletcher so much. Cox is a better dual-sided kick

 

[Phillyroo]

Sorry mate but this isn't true at all. Throughout most of last year Thilthorpe and Phillips were the 2 names be touted as likely number 1 (if we're not including NGA players such as JUH who's been talked as being the cream of this crop for a couple of years now). DGB entered talks seriously after the Under 18's Champs. The Dal Santo-Brown game is what catapulted Hollands into number 1 talks as he played a decent portion of that game in the midfield (~50-60%) and played well. That game moved him from a potential top 10 pick to number 1 talks IF he could consolidate that with some impressive midfield performances in the TAC.

There are no doubts around his skill set and potential - I think he's one of the most well-rounded talents to come through in a while. The one issue he has is finding the ball on a large scale - particularly in the contest, which is exactly what you need if you want to be a midfielder.

There's a sense in which he is a risk, but isn't at the same time. If you're hoping for Bontempelli/Fyfe then there's a decent chance you'll be disappointed. If you're happy to concede that with taking him comes the risk of him ending up a 40 goal a year 15-20 touch a game half forward then he isn't a huge risk.

He really could be anything - I'm not saying he will never be a gun midfielder, he absolutely could be - it's just unlikely

Like I said... opinions.
Someone I know quite well who has watched, studied, and been involved at TAC level for years wrote back to a text I sent asking about Phillips with “
Will Phillips has had a charmed football life. Basically plays on the ball everytime he walks on the field.
In an AFL environment when he doesn’t necessarily get to run around without accountability he may be found out. He’s not big by any means. He’s not particularly athletic and there isn’t really much x-factor there. I suspect he’s overrated...”

when I asked him if there was a standout in this draft. “Hollands”.

Im not saying he is a better judge than you mate...and I appreciate you come from a place of knowledge through the efforts you have put into watching hours and hours of junior footy.

Hollands will bring an excitement level, if he turns out to be a big strong midfield bull with tricks and goal kicking ability great, if he provides the polish we need forward of the ball and that’s all... well we probs made a mistake with the pick.
That’s what Brady gets paid for.

 

[Asifhe Givashe]

The only way we are getting pick 4 from Sydney:

1. Dumont + 2021 R3> Adelaide > 19 + 2021 R2
2. 19 + 25 + 2021 R2 + Adelaide 2021 R2 > Sydney > 4.

Which is totally palatable.

and less-palatable:

1. Brown + 2021 R2 > Collingwood > 2020 R1 + 2021 R1
2. 2020 R2, 56, 60 + 2021 R1 (Collingwood) > Sydney > 4

We are almost obliged to have a crack at this!

 

[Passmore]

Nice work on the Tanner Bruhn highlights giantroo

 

[Snake_Baker]

Like I said... opinions.
Someone I know quite well who has watched, studied, and been involved at TAC level for years wrote back to a text I sent asking about Phillips with “
Will Phillips has had a charmed football life. Basically plays on the ball everytime he walks on the field.
In an AFL environment when he doesn’t necessarily get to run around without accountability he may be found out. He’s not big by any means. He’s not particularly athletic and there isn’t really much x-factor there. I suspect he’s overrated...”

That sounds like the comments from a person with an axe to grind Phil.

What does he mean by "suspect" also? The person seems to know the ins & outs of the kids career, and then only "suspects" he's overrated?

 

[Mjs94]

What page is it on mate?
Thanks.

Top of page 76

 

[Shermanator]

The only way we are getting pick 4 from Sydney:

1. Dumont + 2021 R3> Adelaide > 19 + 2021 R2
2. 19 + 25 + 2021 R2 + Adelaide 2021 R2 > Sydney > 4.

Which is totally palatable.

and less-palatable:

1. Brown + 2021 R2 > Collingwood > 2020 R1 + 2021 R1
2. 2020 R2, 56, 60 + 2021 R1 (Collingwood) > Sydney > 4

We are almost obliged to have a crack at this!

 

[Asifhe Givashe]

I forgot you want to trade our 1st for NEAFL Footballer, Caldwell.

 

[Pykie]

Funny you should mention Rankine. For all the talk about how great Elijah Hollands' highlights are they don't come close to what Rankine was putting together in his draft year (granted we haven't seen Hollands in his draft year) (Rankine draft year highlights: )

Rankine is a lot more agile than Hollands. Although I must say that Rankine may be one of the most agile players I've ever seen on a footy field.

It actually brings up one of the issues I see with Hollands is that he's not particularly strong in any athletic category. I'm not sure he sets himself apart from the rest with anything else apart from his skills. He's extremely clean below his knees (which buys him a lot of time) and knows how to use his body in a marking contest to protect the drop zone which are hugely underrated skills. But he doesn't have a great top speed (or doesn't show it on the field), isn't particularly agile, he doesn't out-muscle his opponent and he also doesn't have an elite endurance base.

Also take note in his highlights video how often he's winning his own ball. He's often on the end of a handball or taking a mark on the lead - again, this is due to him mostly playing as a forward flanker and the nature of the position. But it reiterates my issue with him - he just doesn't seem to be a natural midfielder at this stage. The hope is that he transitions to being one, but there's a lot of work to be done for him to get there.

Not really a fair comparison. Their game styles aren't very alike.

Hollands is bordering on 6"3 and 85kg's and more in line with a Jordan De Goey type.

Rankine runs close to a sub 11 second 100m and is 75kg's wringing wet.

Rankine was always going to be a an even better version of Betts/Cameron style 50+ goal small forward with bursts in the midfield.

The expectation is that at worst Hollands is a De Goey style permanent medium forward ~ at his absolute zenith of his potential he's a Dustin Martin style midfielder.

I think most clubs would take that scenario for risk/reward.


Rankine certainly has Hollands for athleticism, Rankine has every player in the comp for athleticism in all honesty. I wouldn't necessarily say he has him for skill though. There's certainly some things Hollands can do on a football field that Rankine can't do because of his raw power and kicking penetration.

 

[Shermanator]

I forgot you want to trade our 1st for NEAFL Footballer, Caldwell.

Nah I like you’re trades better. Keep up the good work

 

[Harris 10]

Like I said... opinions.
Someone I know quite well who has watched, studied, and been involved at TAC level for years wrote back to a text I sent asking about Phillips with “
Will Phillips has had a charmed football life. Basically plays on the ball everytime he walks on the field.
In an AFL environment when he doesn’t necessarily get to run around without accountability he may be found out. He’s not big by any means. He’s not particularly athletic and there isn’t really much x-factor there. I suspect he’s overrated...”

To be fair this is what most underage footballers do who play through the midfield

 

[shinboner magic]

Not really a fair comparison. Their game styles aren't very alike.

Hollands is bordering on 6"3 and 85kg's and more in line with a Jordan De Goey type.

Rankine runs close to a sub 11 second 100m and is 75kg's wringing wet.

Rankine was always going to be a an even better version of Betts/Cameron style 50+ goal small forward with bursts in the midfield.

The expectation is that at worst Hollands is a De Goey style permanent medium forward ~ at his absolute zenith of his potential he's a Dustin Martin style midfielder.

I think most clubs would take that scenario for risk/reward.


Rankine certainly has Hollands for athleticism, Rankine has every player in the comp for athleticism in all honesty. I wouldn't necessarily say he has him for skill though. There's certainly some things Hollands can do on a football field that Rankine can't do because of his raw power and kicking penetration.

As long as he’s not Tambling and does nothing in the AFL.
And McDonald then doesn’t turn into buddy