Draft 2021 AFLW Draft discussion

[The_Wookie]

Hi guys,

the live Draft thread is now open here.

Draft - The 2021 AFLW National Draft, 6.45pm AEST on womens.afl & the AFLW app

Click for a Full list of drafted players >> ============================ The 2021 AFLW Draft will take place on Tuesday, July 27 in a virtual format, commencing at 6.45pm AEST on womens.afl and the AFLW Official App. Like last year, it will be a studio show, hosted by Nat Edwards, Sarah...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[PMBangers]

Sanity restored to the league, well, what little there was at least. This open up some intriguing possibilities, like Harris to Gold Coast now becomes more realistic, whether Carlton are as keen without Pick 1 being involved is another question. And also Cats can still realistically get Scheer, would want to hold on to the first of the PP's I imagine though

 

[Teen Wolf]

Looking forward to hearing your alternative suggestions for spreading the talent evenly, The_Wookie.

Can't have a mandatory player forfeiture system.
Can't have new clubs recruit a dozen players who are actually getting a game.
And now we can't have priority picks allocated in an attempt to correct those mistakes.

"Why even have a draft"? It's to help the bad teams catch up to the good teams. How is that hard to understand.

 

[The_Wookie]

Looking forward to hearing your alternative suggestions for spreading the talent evenly, The_Wookie.

Can't have a mandatory player forfeiture system.
Can't have new clubs recruit a dozen players who are actually getting a game.
And now we can't have priority picks allocated in an attempt to correct those mistakes.

"Why even have a draft"? It's to help the bad teams catch up to the good teams. How is that hard to understand.

I look forward to people responding to my twitter feed on my actual twitter feed.

 

[Teen Wolf]

I look forward to people responding to my twitter feed on my actual twitter feed.

I guess we're both waiting on a big bunch of nothing then.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

How can St Kilda get Prespakis or Rowbottom? What needs to fall our way luck wise?

 

[PMBangers]

How can St Kilda get Prespakis or Rowbottom? What needs to fall our way luck wise?

You are getting one of them given none of the top 5 picks can be traded

so, congratulations

 

[Vacuous Space]

You are getting one of them given none of the top 5 picks can be traded

so, congratulations

I said this elsewhere in the thread, so forgive the repetition: St Kilda gets the easiest pick in the Vic draft third year running.

The trick is going to be keeping them. I always wondered if Patrikios fell to 5 because the other two Vic clubs were worried about Essendon down the road. Most of the players thought pick one was going to be McEvoy or Patrikios. From my own limited viewing, I thought it was close enough that you could flip a three-sided coin to decide. People seemed weirdly confident that Newton was going first very early on.

Smith doesn't have the same connection to an incoming club. The Hawks moving to Dingley makes me wonder if they'll pursue some ex-Rays. It seems less of a concern than the Calder girls.

I'm not sure whether taking Prespakis mitigates the Essendon risk or doubles it. There's got to be at least some chance that, if the Saints get Prespakis to go along with Patrikios, that the other Prespakis may follow at some point in time. There's at least some risk that both flee to Essendon as well for less than adequate compensation, so I'm going to hold off attributing luck to anything involved with St Kilda's drafting thus far. Still plenty of room for things to go horribly wrong.

Then again, I'm starting to think I've been barking up the wrong tree as far as player movement goes. I've been trying to think of who goes best with whom and looking for logical attachments. It's seeming more that it's about who can find the most funny money behind the scenes. In the end, it's probably just better taking the best player available and hoping that they don't wind up at another club so they can make six figures occasionally visiting a recycling company.

 

[PMBangers]

I said this elsewhere in the thread, so forgive the repetition: St Kilda gets the easiest pick in the Vic draft third year running.

The trick is going to be keeping them. I always wondered if Patrikios fell to 5 because the other two Vic clubs were worried about Essendon down the road. Most of the players thought pick one was going to be McEvoy or Patrikios. From my own limited viewing, I thought it was close enough that you could flip a three-sided coin to decide. People seemed weirdly confident that Newton was going first very early on.

Smith doesn't have the same connection to an incoming club. The Hawks moving to Dingley makes me wonder if they'll pursue some ex-Rays. It seems less of a concern than the Calder girls.

I'm not sure whether taking Prespakis mitigates the Essendon risk or doubles it. There's got to be at least some chance that, if the Saints get Prespakis to go along with Patrikios, that the other Prespakis may follow at some point in time. There's at least some risk that both flee to Essendon as well for less than adequate compensation, so I'm going to hold off attributing luck to anything involved with St Kilda's drafting thus far. Still plenty of room for things to go horribly wrong.

Then again, I'm starting to think I've been barking up the wrong tree as far as player movement goes. I've been trying to think of who goes best with whom and looking for logical attachments. It's seeming more that it's about who can find the most funny money behind the scenes. In the end, it's probably just better taking the best player available and hoping that they don't wind up at another club so they can make six figures occasionally visiting a recycling company.

I'm not convinced it entirely matters that much, I think more than anything, players look for the best deal rather than care about club connections, unless they're already there. I reckon given Patrikios is a league BnF winner in waiting she'll get approached by both clubs, she probably already has, but I also know the saints have her as priority 1, and rightfully so, she's got a job in their community department as well, so unless another club can somehow make her a full time athlete I'm not sure how likely a move is.

 

[NoobPie]

I look forward to people responding to my twitter feed on my actual twitter feed.

What a really strange response

Looking forward to hearing your alternative suggestions for spreading the talent evenly, The_Wookie.

Can't have a mandatory player forfeiture system.
Can't have new clubs recruit a dozen players who are actually getting a game.
And now we can't have priority picks allocated in an attempt to correct those mistakes.

"Why even have a draft"? It's to help the bad teams catch up to the good teams. How is that hard to understand.

What was most ridiculous was that "only being 5 years in" clearly makes it more acceptable. This should be obvious to anyone who can reason.

 

[The_Wookie]

What a really strange response

Not really. Its my twitter feed. I asked the question on twitter. Just because he copied it here doesnt mean i want to discuss it here - I generally get a far better quality discussion on twitter than I do here. And if I had answers I would have stated them there instead of asking what was going on.

What was most ridiculous was that "only being 5 years in" clearly makes it more acceptable. This should be obvious to anyone who can reason.

I dont think its acceptable at all if you are handing 1/3rd of the clubs in the league priority picks. That speaks to fundamental issues with the process as it is - or should to anyone within reason.

The priority pick system was designed to assist clubs after being on the bottom for some time in the mens competition - the entire AFLW hasnt existed long enough for systemic low ladder finishes to be a thing, let alone the fact that due to the nature of the competitions formation, half the clubs havent even been around even that long.

 

[NoobPie]

I generally get a far better quality discussion on twitter than I do here.

This speaks volumes

 

[The_Wookie]

This speaks volumes

Not really. It speaks to the fact that i expect better from the verified journos and officials who follow me on twitter than I have for the anonymous heroes of bigfooty.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Verified journos: "North will be unstoppable, Geelong will be competitive."

Yep, keep listening to them, definitely have their fingers on the pulse.

 

[The_Wookie]

Verified journos: "North will be unstoppable, Geelong will be competitive."

Yep, keep listening to them, definitely have their fingers on the pulse.

geez and you wonder why ive got no time for you

 

[Teen Wolf]

geez and you wonder why ive got no time for you

No I don't.

But let's keep the thread on topic. If anybody wants to know why 5 of the 6 expansion teams need assistance, I'd be happy to explain it on here again.

 

[NoobPie]

No I don't.

But let's keep the thread on topic. If anybody wants to know why 5 of the 6 expansion teams need assistance, I'd be happy to explain it on here again.

I'll give it a go at a boiled down

The AFL need to correct for the demonstrable under endowment of talent at expansion clubs:
-in a new league that is still only 5 years with 2 and 3 year old expansion teams
-with constrained depth of experienced talent
-that is still subject to a low, flat tiered payment system where the gap between base and marquee is minimal (the top marque earns less than $17K more than the base players ($20,239) in 2022)
-which substantially constrains the ability for struggling teams to entice "under payed" players from contending teams

 

[The Nostradamus]

SanflW grand final next weekend
2 more rounds of Vflw then finals
Nab league done
WAFLW done in July 2

So I think that’s all state league comps wrapped up by early July

Are there any decent local leagues running between July and December before aflw starts back up that are of decent standard?

 

[PMBangers]

SanflW grand final next weekend
2 more rounds of Vflw then finals
Nab league done
WAFLW done in July 2

So I think that’s all state league comps wrapped up by early July

Are there any decent local leagues running between July and December before aflw starts back up that are of decent standard?

I doubt any AFLW listed players will return to local league, your best bet is going to be watching juniors to see draft prospects IF they bother returning

 

[Teen Wolf]

The trick is going to be keeping them. I always wondered if Patrikios fell to 5 because the other two Vic clubs were worried about Essendon down the road. Most of the players thought pick one was going to be McEvoy or Patrikios. From my own limited viewing, I thought it was close enough that you could flip a three-sided coin to decide. People seemed weirdly confident that Newton was going first very early on.

I'm not convinced it entirely matters that much, I think more than anything, players look for the best deal rather than care about club connections, unless they're already there. I reckon given Patrikios is a league BnF winner in waiting she'll get approached by both clubs, she probably already has, but I also know the saints have her as priority 1, and rightfully so, she's got a job in their community department as well, so unless another club can somehow make her a full time athlete I'm not sure how likely a move is.

Would the Saints be putting so much effort into getting Marinoff if they knew Patrikios was staying (or if they were willing to enter a bidding war with Essendon)? They are going to downgrade/discontinue some of the larger contracts that were on the books for their first 2 seasons, but there's also the likes of Smith to hold on to now (who would already be getting decent offers from other clubs) in addition to future high pick draftees.

The AFL need to correct for the demonstrable under endowment of talent at expansion clubs:
-in a new league that is still only 5 years with 2 and 3 year old expansion teams
-with constrained depth of experienced talent
-that is still subject to a low, flat tiered payment system where the gap between base and marquee is minimal (the top marque earns less than $17K more than the base players ($20,239) in 2022)
-which substantially constrains the ability for struggling teams to entice "under payed" players from contending teams

It's a good attempt but way over 280 characters there, you anonymous hero!

 

[Vacuous Space]

VC v QLD

Apologies to any Queensland supporters. I can offer little insight into your team other than 'Teagan Levi is fast', which most people probably knew anyway. Those who don't know will find out pretty quickly next year, I reckon.

Big win for VC over Queensland today, winning 12.4.76 to 3.4.22, finishing the carnival undefeated. Anthony had 19 disposals and took out the VC player of the tournament honours. I don't think she could have done much more at junior level to improve her draft position. She'll probably get at least one more game at VFLW level for Port.

Tess Craven missed for Country, which gave some others a chance in the centre. McRae, Jordan, Schaap, Shepherd were the main mids, with Di Donato, Richards and some others getting rotated through. Skepper was great running in from the wing. I'm not sure where Smith was starting, but it wasn't the centre. She had a great game too. Slender did some running into the middle from the forward line and got a first possession off a Scoullar tap at one point. I think this was Slender's best game for Country.

Friend moved into defence after having played on the wing in the previous game for VC, and forward last week for the VFLW Dogs. She was really composed there. The VC defensive unit (Anthony, Dojiok, Dowling, Friend, Lee, Leonard) held up really well. They said on the coverage that the i50s were roughly even. Dojiok left late with what looked like a rolled ankle, so could miss the rest of the VFLW season.

Meier kicked the first goal and wound up with three for Country. The last two came from frees and there were points where the Queensland defence struggled with the mobility of the small VC forward line. Di Donato spent time forward and mid and was one of the VC best for sure. She's a really good kick of the footy and definitely looks to be one to watch on VC next year. Scott kicked a couple and could have had at least one more. Levi made her look slow on the wing at one point, which I think is more testament to how fast Levi is.

It'll be very interesting to see how much of this VC team gets drafted. A lot of teams have been shy about taking VC players in the past, but this one has a reasonable claim to being the best VC team we've seen yet. Also interesting will be how teams view Schaap at 153cm and Meier at 156cm. Schaap, in particular, looks an AFLW level player. Personally, I'm of the view that Geelong should use their priority picks on Friend and Slender and hope to get Craven and Lee with their next couple of picks (potentially Melbourne's 1RDP and their 2RDP).

Coverage gave us some stats after the game:

VC
Anthony 19
Smith 15 (they had her down as having a goal, but I think they incorrectly attributed one of Di Donato's to her)
Leonard 14
Meier 13, 3 goals
Di Donato 12, 2 goals (they said she had one, but they were wrong: one in the third; one early in the fourth)
McRae 12, 7 tackles
Slender 12
Skepper 12
Scott - 2 goals
Featherston; Garth; Richards; Schaap; Tierney - 1 goal

Queensland
Liessi 18
Gee 17
Hewett 16, 8 tackles
Levi 16, 6 tackles
Harmer 16
Evans; Sheridan; Tarlinson - 1 goal

 

[PMBangers]

VC v QLD

Apologies to any Queensland supporters. I can offer little insight into your team other than 'Teagan Levi is fast', which most people probably knew anyway. Those who don't know will find out pretty quickly next year, I reckon.

Big win for VC over Queensland today, winning 12.4.76 to 3.4.22, finishing the carnival undefeated. Anthony had 19 disposals and took out the VC player of the tournament honours. I don't think she could have done much more at junior level to improve her draft position. She'll probably get at least one more game at VFLW level for Port.

Tess Craven missed for Country, which gave some others a chance in the centre. McRae, Jordan, Schaap, Shepherd were the main mids, with Di Donato, Richards and some others getting rotated through. Skepper was great running in from the wing. I'm not sure where Smith was starting, but it wasn't the centre. She had a great game too. Slender did some running into the middle from the forward line and got a first possession off a Scoullar tap at one point. I think this was Slender's best game for Country.

Friend moved into defence after having played on the wing in the previous game for VC, and forward last week for the VFLW Dogs. She was really composed there. The VC defensive unit (Anthony, Dojiok, Dowling, Friend, Lee, Leonard) held up really well. They said on the coverage that the i50s were roughly even. Dojiok left late with what looked like a rolled ankle, so could miss the rest of the VFLW season.

Meier kicked the first goal and wound up with three for Country. The last two came from frees and there were points where the Queensland defence struggled with the mobility of the small VC forward line. Di Donato spent time forward and mid and was one of the VC best for sure. She's a really good kick of the footy and definitely looks to be one to watch on VC next year. Scott kicked a couple and could have had at least one more. Levi made her look slow on the wing at one point, which I think is more testament to how fast Levi is.

It'll be very interesting to see how much of this VC team gets drafted. A lot of teams have been shy about taking VC players in the past, but this one has a reasonable claim to being the best VC team we've seen yet. Also interesting will be how teams view Schaap at 153cm and Meier at 156cm. Schaap, in particular, looks an AFLW level player. Personally, I'm of the view that Geelong should use their priority picks on Friend and Slender and hope to get Craven and Lee with their next couple of picks (potentially Melbourne's 1RDP and their 2RDP).

Coverage gave us some stats after the game:

VC
Anthony 19
Smith 15 (they had her down as having a goal, but I think they incorrectly attributed one of Di Donato's to her)
Leonard 14
Meier 13, 3 goals
Di Donato 12, 2 goals (they said she had one, but they were wrong: one in the third; one early in the fourth)
McRae 12, 7 tackles
Slender 12
Skepper 12
Scott - 2 goals
Featherston; Garth; Richards; Schaap - 1 goal

Queensland
Liessi 18
Gee 17
Hewett 16, 8 tackles
Levi 16, 6 tackles
Harmer 16
Evans; Sheridan; Tarlinson - 1 goal

Thanks for the insight, I unfortunately had my own Under 14 Girls coaching commitments so couldn't watch it, did record it though so probably going to be my entertainment while I eat dinner. A few thoughts from your notes; I've been saying all year Friend should be a defender, the times I've been most impressed with her have been in defense, but given she's also got a good way of getting separation she's almost too valuable as a forward/ wing, it's going to be a good problem to have for whoever gets her (I'm tipping Geelong or North Melbourne at this point). Anthony continues to rack it up out of the backline, I reckon she's a sneaky chance to go to Saints or Tigers with their second picks, consistent ball use out of the back half is something I feel like both sides need.
Next years draft continues to get more exciting, Di Donato, Scott, Shepherd, Eardley, Skepper all played today and (from my first quarter viewing) contributed well, not surprising given their form, but to think that it's unlikely anyone has any of them in their top 3 for VIC girls for 2022 it puts into perspective how good next year is looking

 

[Vacuous Space]

Thanks for the insight, I unfortunately had my own Under 14 Girls coaching commitments so couldn't watch it, did record it though so probably going to be my entertainment while I eat dinner. A few thoughts from your notes; I've been saying all year Friend should be a defender, the times I've been most impressed with her have been in defense, but given she's also got a good way of getting separation she's almost too valuable as a forward/ wing, it's going to be a good problem to have for whoever gets her (I'm tipping Geelong or North Melbourne at this point). Anthony continues to rack it up out of the backline, I reckon she's a sneaky chance to go to Saints or Tigers with their second picks, consistent ball use out of the back half is something I feel like both sides need.
Next years draft continues to get more exciting, Di Donato, Scott, Shepherd, Eardley, Skepper all played today and (from my first quarter viewing) contributed well, not surprising given their form, but to think that it's unlikely anyone has any of them in their top 3 for VIC girls for 2022 it puts into perspective how good next year is looking

Defence ends up being a much better place to showcase players than up forward at this level, unless their team is dominant. I definitely think it's possible I underrate Slender, having played mostly forward in a weak Pios unit. I've liked Friend enough at every position she's played that I think it'll just depend on who drafts her. I could potentially see a team starting either Friend or Slender in defence (or wing) and moving them forward once they're more used to the level.

Anthony is just such an easy player to cheer for. I could see her sliding on account of not being as tall as she plays or the fastest player out there, but you can't argue with her results.

Scott, I think, would be the closest to pushing into the 2022 top-3. She's just such a powerful player. If she pushes into the midfield and dominates there, I could see her being preferred to Baskaran or Clarke (who I assume are the other two after Ham). It looks a very midfield heavy draft, so that might help the talls in this one go a bit earlier or have teams speculate on some taller players later.

Hope your team went well.

 

[PMBangers]

Hope your team went well.

Thank you, we did

Scott, I think, would be the closest to pushing into the 2022 top-3. She's just such a powerful player. If she pushes into the midfield and dominates there, I could see her being preferred to Baskaran or Clarke (who I assume are the other two after Ham). It looks a very midfield heavy draft, so that might help the talls in this one go a bit earlier or have teams speculate on some taller players later.

Without putting too much thought into it, I'd say I've got Ham, Baskaran, Hurley as the top 3, with Clarke, Hipwell, Sheperd, Eardley, Fleming, Scott, Skepper and Di Donato the ones that'd be battling for the 4th and 5th spots. Scott's got that, for lack of a better comparison, De Goey style as an impactful forward target and a really solid clearance/ contested ball winner with skill, she'll be one of those players along with Rowbottom, Ham, Roberts, etc. who people will be drawn in by, the sorts that every kid has their number on their jumper, given how impactful she is and her goal celebrations.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I said this elsewhere in the thread, so forgive the repetition: St Kilda gets the easiest pick in the Vic draft third year running.

The trick is going to be keeping them. I always wondered if Patrikios fell to 5 because the other two Vic clubs were worried about Essendon down the road. Most of the players thought pick one was going to be McEvoy or Patrikios. From my own limited viewing, I thought it was close enough that you could flip a three-sided coin to decide. People seemed weirdly confident that Newton was going first very early on.

Smith doesn't have the same connection to an incoming club. The Hawks moving to Dingley makes me wonder if they'll pursue some ex-Rays. It seems less of a concern than the Calder girls.

I'm not sure whether taking Prespakis mitigates the Essendon risk or doubles it. There's got to be at least some chance that, if the Saints get Prespakis to go along with Patrikios, that the other Prespakis may follow at some point in time. There's at least some risk that both flee to Essendon as well for less than adequate compensation, so I'm going to hold off attributing luck to anything involved with St Kilda's drafting thus far. Still plenty of room for things to go horribly wrong.

Then again, I'm starting to think I've been barking up the wrong tree as far as player movement goes. I've been trying to think of who goes best with whom and looking for logical attachments. It's seeming more that it's about who can find the most funny money behind the scenes. In the end, it's probably just better taking the best player available and hoping that they don't wind up at another club so they can make six figures occasionally visiting a recycling company.

I think if we get Prespakis it help someone make Patrikios stay. Both of them really. I’m pretty sure they’re very close friends.

 

[Vacuous Space]

Without putting too much thought into it, I'd say I've got Ham, Baskaran, Hurley as the top 3, with Clarke, Hipwell, Sheperd, Eardley, Fleming, Scott, Skepper and Di Donato the ones that'd be battling for the 4th and 5th spots. Scott's got that, for lack of a better comparison, De Goey style as an impactful forward target and a really solid clearance/ contested ball winner with skill, she'll be one of those players along with Rowbottom, Ham, Roberts, etc. who people will be drawn in by, the sorts that every kid has their number on their jumper, given how impactful she is and her goal celebrations.

I haven't seen as much of Hurley, so I'll cede to better judgement on that. I reckon Amber Clarke in space is just about the most exciting thing in the NAB League though. That it's even vaguely plausible for her to go fourth or late next year is a sign of just how absurd that draft is shaping up to be. With any luck, there'll be a few more who take the step up next year and throw their names into the mix as well.