List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[katmanblue]

Yeah and spot, a peanut a mile away

Hey, I like peanuts.

 

[katmanblue]

I think our best front 7 is...

HF: Fisher - Curnow - Martin
F: Owies - McKay - McGovern/JSOS
INT: Fogarty

Cunners is best 22 (maybe coming off the bench?), so he'd play a mid-forward role rotating with Fog or Martin.

I honestly don't know who would be our ruck relief. Harry seems like the only viable option if we don't play Levi (or two rucks), but does that diminish his longevity?

It's a toss up between JSOS or Gov in the forward line, but I think Mitch would replace Parks as that intercepting/3rd tall down back. That's the only way I see him staying in the side if we play JSOS as well, although I probably do prefer McGovern up forward when fit to Silvagni (controversial opinion!)

Fit and firing, McGovern is a better more impactful individual player. SOS is a much better team oriented player. Best pressure eplayer at the club.

 

[Stamos]

I think our best front 7 is...

HF: Fisher - Curnow - Martin
F: Owies - McKay - McGovern/JSOS
INT: Fogarty

Cunners is best 22 (maybe coming off the bench?), so he'd play a mid-forward role rotating with Fog or Martin.

I honestly don't know who would be our ruck relief. Harry seems like the only viable option if we don't play Levi (or two rucks), but does that diminish his longevity?

It's a toss up between JSOS or Gov in the forward line, but I think Mitch would replace Parks as that intercepting/3rd tall down back. That's the only way I see him staying in the side if we play JSOS as well, although I probably do prefer McGovern up forward when fit to Silvagni (controversial opinion!)

Don't know how you're picking Owies over either Gov or Jack

 

[Ash24]

Don't know how you're picking Owies over either Gov or Jack

I do still have one of Gov or Jack in the pocket, but I don't think we can play both of them alongside Charlie and Harry all in the one forward line - way too tall and slow.

Owies I have been seriously impressed with. He's really flown under the radar and while Fish/Martin are still injured, dare I say it Owies is our best mid-small forward. He's averaged 4.3 tackles, and 2 goals a game for the last 3 weeks consistently.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

We need to find a Levi replacement asap ( as much as I love him) and a Jones replacement.
Ratagulea would be my Levi replacement, don’t know if he’d be gettable.
Jones not sure....throw a Hail Mary at Ben McKay???
Also a rumour going around that Tom Mitchell may be gettable. Do we throw our hat in the ring?

 

[JustaBattler]

I do still have one of Gov or Jack in the pocket, but I don't think we can play both of them alongside Charlie and Harry all in the one forward line - way too tall and slow.

Owies I have been seriously impressed with. He's really flown under the radar and while Fish/Martin are still injured, dare I say it Owies is our best mid-small forward. He's averaged 4.3 tackles, and 2 goals a game for the last 3 weeks consistently.

Harry/Charlie and Gov are three of the fastest forwards running around- Teague's challenge is to get them on the park all together - for once. Jack would be yards slower than any of these three over 15 meters or 20 or 30 ...

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Harry/Charlie and Gov are three of the fastest forwards running around- Teague's challenge is to get them on the park all together - for once. Jack would be yards slower than any of these three over 15 meters or 20 or 30 ...

But he makes up for it with footy smarts

 

[katmanblue]

Harry/Charlie and Gov are three of the fastest forwards running around- Teague's challenge is to get them on the park all together - for once. Jack would be yards slower than any of these three over 15 meters or 20 or 30 ...

Might get them on (not Charlie) on endurance.

 

[JustaBattler]

But he makes up for it with footy smarts

Might get them on (not Charlie) on endurance.

Gents - wasn't commenting on Jack whose defensive efforts are good- was just responding to the notion that all of McGovern/Charlie and Harry would make the forward line too tall and therefore too slow.

 

[smashbox gill]

We need to find a Levi replacement asap ( as much as I love him) and a Jones replacement.
Ratagulea would be my Levi replacement, don’t know if he’d be gettable.
Jones not sure....throw a Hail Mary at Ben McKay???
Also a rumour going around that Tom Mitchell may be gettable. Do we throw our hat in the ring?

Calum Coleman Jones

 

[gbatman]

Cerra is also 21 so we would expect him to improve. We rate him, we're having a go before he matures and his value rises, assuming his progression of improvement keeps going. His stats for his age are pretty good aren't they?

 

[chunkylover53]

Don't really understand how people still think McGovern is ahead of JSOS?

JSOS plays well every time he plays, we also win a lot more when he's out there.

McGovern is and always has been unfit, flaky and unable to find it if forward of centre. Imo he needs to go back or his career is ****ed.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Don't really understand how people still think McGovern is ahead of JSOS?

JSOS plays well every time he plays, we also win a lot more when he's out there.

McGovern is and always has been unfit, flaky and unable to find it if forward of centre. Imo he needs to go back or his career is f’ed.

mcgov can play ruck. jsos as utility.

imo our best 22 has both

 

[blue healer]

be

mcgov can play ruck. jsos as utility.

imo our best 22 has both

Be real nice if we could fact check your opinion by getting them both on the ground at the same time. The way they're both going injury wise we're going to struggle to do this.

 

[CJMB]

be


Be real nice if we could fact check your opinion by getting them both on the ground at the same time. The way they're both going injury wise we're going to struggle to do this.

Since 2019 Jack has played 24 and Mitch 31 of a possible 48 games, although both played the most in 2019, with Jack only getting on field 7 times the past 2 seasons while Mitch has 15 in the same period.

2020 & 2021 the two have combined for 22 of 26 games. Personally I'd have them both in the 22 if fit, but off recent history we're realistically just hoping that one of them is fit each week...

 

[SurreyBlue]

Worth a read.

Hawks in ruins, a victim of hubris (theroar.com.au)

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Would we rather Cerra or Josh Kelly, I imagine both players would command similar $, Cerra is younger but Kelly is an unrestricted free agent.. So the real question is likely to be Cerra + 2 x first or 1 x first & SPS... Or Josh Kelly straight out..

For me its Kelly, who is only 26 and will be able to give 5 years of good service right when we need it.

 

[DangerousD]

Would we rather Cerra or Josh Kelly, I imagine both players would command similar $, Cerra is younger but Kelly is an unrestricted free agent.. So the real question is likely to be Cerra + 2 x first or 1 x first & SPS... Or Josh Kelly straight out..

For me its Kelly, who is only 26 and will be able to give 5 years of good service right when we need it.

On this, media reports around our interest in Cerra, despite the headline, stated a 4 year deal close to $3M, so less than $750,000 a year, he would cost our first round pick minimum.

In regards to Kelly, he’s a restricted free agent, but in theory the Giants can’t match any offer, as he already has a contract at the Giants he can choose to honour, in terms of $$$$$, Kelly will cost a fair chunk more, his deal at the Giants if he stays, earns him $1M per year for up to 8 years, if you go off media reports.

You wouldn’t think he would give that away unless he was getting somewhere close to that figure, $850,000 maybe $900,000 but who knows, his output has dropped quite a bit and I think GWS will want him to move.

Simply, I agree with you, get the FA and hit the draft.

 

[Gethelred]

Just watched On the couch, and was quite interested in the talk around Port Adelaide, they mentioned Port only has 6 players (I think) brought in from other clubs, everyone else is from the various drafts, compare that to us.

Has targeting so many players from other clubs hurt us in any way? Does it put more pressure on the salary cap?

I remember, roughly 15-16 years ago, when Freo were under Mark Harvey and over the course of a few years they'd brought in more than half their list from other clubs. On paper, they had a lot of very good players on each line, but they weren't playing anywhere near what they should be based on their output.

It's funny, but the pundits then actually provided a bit of insight; they talked about list synergy, and how it's difficult to trust someone you've only just started playing with. We can clearly remember from other sports - for the purposes of this example, cricket - that that compilation teams regardless of how talented tend to struggle against strong teams used to playing together.

We've got that kind of friction between familiarity and gameplay requirements, but that'll only get better as the side starts to settle.

 

[DangerousD]

Worth a read.

Hawks in ruins, a victim of hubris (theroar.com.au)

Seems written by a disgruntled fan to me, whilst I agree they are in trouble and shouldn’t have recruited Winguard, Scully and Patton, I agreed with and admired the moving on, of the older guard, I actually think it was done one season too late.

If you traded Lewis and Mitchell one season earlier, both would have netted second round picks, instead of 4th round pick upgrades, it’s something that doesn’t happen enough in the AFL IMO, the author suggesting Roughead was moved on with good football ahead, really made me laugh, he was struggling big time by the end.

As for Richmond, I don’t see them winning the flag this year, they might who knows, but what do you do if Cotchin and Riewoldt want to play on and the club needs to go in a different direction? The club and its future comes first.

 

[DangerousD]

I remember, roughly 15-16 years ago, when Freo were under Mark Harvey and over the course of a few years they'd brought in more than half their list from other clubs. On paper, they had a lot of very good players on each line, but they weren't playing anywhere near what they should be based on their output.

It's funny, but the pundits then actually provided a bit of insight; they talked about list synergy, and how it's difficult to trust someone you've only just started playing with. We can clearly remember from other sports - for the purposes of this example, cricket - that that compilation teams regardless of how talented tend to struggle against strong teams used to playing together.

We've got that kind of friction between familiarity and gameplay requirements, but that'll only get better as the side starts to settle.

I have been thinking along similar lines, I do wonder in hindsight, what would we or I have done differently in regards to our list and I wonder if bringing in so many players from other clubs, who clearly weren’t up to it and well past their best, has had a negative impact n culture and development.

If I was a club down the bottom I’d look at us and say, we just need to hit the draft, forget about cast offs, just take the hit and build through the draft.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I have been thinking along similar lines, I do wonder in hindsight, what would we or I have done differently in regards to our list and I wonder if bringing in so many players from other clubs, who clearly weren’t up to it and well past their best, has had a negative impact n culture and development.

If I was a club down the bottom I’d look at us and say, we just need to hit the draft, forget about cast offs, just take the hit and build through the draft.

Definitely worthwhile to bring in Martin and Williams for free.

Very questionable on saad and mcgovern given not areas of need.

A papley wouldve made sense. Not a 3rd tall and hbf. Would much rather have kept the 2 first rounders.

In any case Williams may still turn out ok...still adjusting

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

On this, media reports around our interest in Cerra, despite the headline, stated a 4 year deal close to $3M, so less than $750,000 a year, he would cost our first round pick minimum.

In regards to Kelly, he’s a restricted free agent, but in theory the Giants can’t match any offer, as he already has a contract at the Giants he can choose to honour, in terms of $$$$$, Kelly will cost a fair chunk more, his deal at the Giants if he stays, earns him $1M per year for up to 8 years, if you go off media reports.

You wouldn’t think he would give that away unless he was getting somewhere close to that figure, $850,000 maybe $900,000 but who knows, his output has dropped quite a bit and I think GWS will want him to move.

Simply, I agree with you, get the FA and hit the draft.

Kelly has a guaranteed 1 mil extension at GWS, but it is only 1 year. If he is wanting to come back to Melbourne he might be after tenure and security rather than 1 big fat check and at his age 4 years at $750k with an option for a 5th might get the job done. Cerra is coming into his prime and would be chasing and be offered similar $.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I have been thinking along similar lines, I do wonder in hindsight, what would we or I have done differently in regards to our list and I wonder if bringing in so many players from other clubs, who clearly weren’t up to it and well past their best, has had a negative impact n culture and development.

If I was a club down the bottom I’d look at us and say, we just need to hit the draft, forget about cast offs, just take the hit and build through the draft.

For me it is not surrounding them with success has been the issue. We have a 20 year culture of losing and being poor and we have assistant coaches John Barker, Brent Stanton & Cameron Bruce who have only known mediocrity.. During our first stages of rebuilding we should have bought in a 'Luke Hodge' type to show the younger guys the way.

I also question that perhaps having Judd as the saviour whilst Murphy & Gibbs were developing perhaps restricted there development, it was too easy to just leave it to Juddy to rescue the team instead of the younger guys stepping up.

Who ever we bring in over the summer has to automatically walk in and command respect because they have been part of success.

 

[Stamos]

Cameron Bruce who have only known mediocrity.

3 flags in a row is mediocrity?