List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[myopic]

It's not even the B and C graders, Every player on our list has given conditional performances at times this year. Whether injured or not they accepted team selection.

Those same players knew they also would not be at their best or 50% of it when they did.

It is not their consideration that 50% is better than the replacements 100%.

It speaks into the entire culture of the club and shows people what is being accepted regarding performance.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Play the kids, like bringing in an underdone Eddie for his 5 touches?
That play the kids?

I'm not sitting on the fence at all. I think Lloyd and Teague have to go, and we should retire off all the older players except Jones. How is that possibly sitting on the fence?

Tell us which young players that your source is telling you are upset and thinking about leaving?

 

[Catfish blue]

That is ludicrous if true. A big part of our future and one of few who actually plays footy in the right way, that would stand up in finals. Pay him what he deserves (and I'm sure he's not asking for anything unrealistic).

Hopefully it's just all part of the negotiations and there is a bit of back and forth. The kid bleeds blue more than anyone in the team.

Put it this way, if it was up to snr he'd be out of there.

 

[Catfish blue]

Getting Cerra would not be an issue if we hadn't have let our tall timber stocks deplete the way we have.

We could do a lot worse than Cerra. Our midfield is the worst in the comp. Cripps isn't getting any younger.

The future is TDK and Walsh. Need at least another 3 to go with them two. Praying Dow, Kemp, Stocker, SPS are those but they are all unknowns atm.

Setterfield, Cunningham, SPS, Kennedy all not coming on to be genuine midfield guns really hurts.

 

[Ash24]

I've tried to find a couple OOC players from Freo, in the likely chance that SPS/Fisher are traded there.

Llyod Meek - Young ruck who probably played his best game of the season against us in rd 3. Hard to crack in at Freo with the likes of Darcy, Lobb and Treacy ahead of him. Likes to get his hands dirty, and is a big pressure player. Moves quite well for someone over 200cm and 110kgs, and would be a nice ruck option behind TDK/Pittonet.

Taylin Duman - Another young player, but this time a quality small lockdown defender. Uses the ball really well and is ranked elite according to the AFL for spoils, one percenters, and contested defensive 1v1s. Probably won't start off best 22, but would be crucial to our list with our lack of 'Plowman backup'.

Darcy Tucker - Really versatile and can play in defensive, on a wing, or in the guts as well. Not the flashiest, but plays his role exceptionally. You could call him an Aldi brand Cerra.


IN - Meek + Duman + 2nd rounder
OUT - Petrevski-Seton + Fisher

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

We could do a lot worse than Cerra. Our midfield is the worst in the comp. Cripps isn't getting any younger.

The future is TDK and Walsh. Need at least another 3 to go with them two. Praying Dow, Kemp, Stocker, SPS are those but they are all unknowns atm.

Setterfield, Cunningham, SPS, Kennedy all not coming on to be genuine midfield guns really hurts.

Think Cuningham has the ability to be a genuine quality midfielder. He's spoken about less in the "being played out of position" diatribes but imo suffered the most for being left to rot forward, when he's a dynamic stoppage player with excellent delivery. Should have been developed as a mid, fingers crossed he can come back strongly from the knee.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Absolutely and when I see people claiming he is poor culturally, well that's just really poor

How do you know he isn't?

 

[bmaurizio]

I've tried to find a couple OOC players from Freo, in the likely chance that SPS/Fisher are traded there.

Llyod Meek - Young ruck who probably played his best game of the season against us in rd 3. Hard to crack in at Freo with the likes of Darcy, Lobb and Treacy ahead of him. Likes to get his hands dirty, and is a big pressure player. Moves quite well for someone over 200cm and 110kgs, and would be a nice ruck option behind TDK/Pittonet.

Taylin Duman - Another young player, but this time a quality small lockdown defender. Uses the ball really well and is ranked elite according to the AFL for spoils, one percenters, and contested defensive 1v1s. Probably won't start off best 22, but would be crucial to our list with our lack of 'Plowman backup'.

Darcy Tucker - Really versatile and can play in defensive, on a wing, or in the guts as well. Not the flashiest, but plays his role exceptionally. He's kind of an Aldi brand Cerra.


IN - Meek + Duman + 2nd rounder
OUT - Petrevski-Seton + Fisher

Like your trade suggestion and solve some issues, I’d probably go with Tucker’s versatility instead of Duman, as we have Boyd from the Dogs as a small lockdown defender not yet fully assessed.

 

[bmaurizio]

Think Cuningham has the ability to be a genuine quality midfielder. He's spoken about less in the "being played out of position" diatribes but imo suffered the most for being left to rot forward, when he's a dynamic stoppage player with excellent delivery. Should have been developed as a mid, fingers crossed he can come back strongly from the knee.

Yup Cuningham forgot about David, another talented player who is perennial injured, just can’t play consistently, any wonder we’re in the state we’re in.

 

[BlueBoy2021]

It’s hard to know which players should go atm- here,s my thoughts on a few underperformers- newnes yesterday in the 3rd quarter looked at a situation where he need to jump in front of a suns leading player and squibbed, a player like doesn’t play finals- Newman is over-rated he’s poor one on one and when he does have an opportunity to wheel and go and hit up with the left he stops, then takes forever to either chip sideways or just pops the ball up in the air, Williamson makes mistakes but at least he,s trying to set us up; how ploughman consistently fumbles and goes to ground unnecessarily has me amazed with horror; take that out of his game and he might be a chance to be ok when I was a kid Carlton was a ruthless winning machine, the Murphy debacle this year is a disgrace to the club, have A good hard look at Eddie Bett’s game yesterday and see how many times the ball is in his vicinity then think how many times it bounces back into the forward half of the opposition , take note how often his opponents have big influences on the outcomes of our matches; his rare highlights and the 1 in 8 or so games where he has an influence over the match for a patch for some (including our coach) thinks that that is good enough, Levi is finished and if the medical staff aren‘t confident on McGovern, offer him a rookie spot at best. Trade SPS and time is up for O’Brien which is a shame for both coz I think if they were in better teams they’d be more highly regarded.

 

[gbatman]

Maybe some will get a rude awakening and be weeded out.
Hopefully most (or even all) of them flourish with a reset of our culture, and some good coaching.

I'm hoping for that. I think the penny needs to drop over the entire list in a big way and it's going to take the new coach, his staff and the leadership group all banded together to do it however it's going to be hard with a leadership group who is currently not up to that. I think it's going to take a fairly big effort to bring something to Carlton that we probably haven't had since Sticks was captain.

Change the culture and improve our leadership. Culture needs to be based around worth ethic, professionalism and ruthless competitiveness. Our leaders need to improve how they back up the coaching group, enforce the coach's instructions and team values on the field and make those who aren't adhering to them accountable. It's extremely clear we lack that. We need our leaders to be louder voiced and more assertive. Hence the important of having strong extraverted personalities in the team.

We need to become more ruthless in terms of how we structure up, how we apply pressure and how we compete physically.

Changing that is going to be incredibly hard because bad habits are already ingrained into players who have gotten away with things for far too long now. Our leadership group is going to require training and coaching to improve their leadership skills and it's going to be hard for them to really get the message through to players who aren't playing in a way that reflects what our team values should be.

If we get the right coach in who can get our leadership firing and begins to enforce strong team values some players will be broken and moved on and some will be made.

SOS has brought a lot of players to our club who have plenty of talent but they way they play the game is terrible and it's all because of this. Fixing this will require an effort and we need to be prepared for a few players to want out and the possibility that at the end of 2022 the new coach may want to clean house a bit.

The new coach is not here to rocket us into finals and make us a contender next year as great as that would be. He will be there to get us going in the right direction, fix what is broken and to have a new premiership in the cabinet within the next 3-5 years.

 

[BlueBoy2021]

I'm hoping for that. I think the penny needs to drop over the entire list in a big way and it's going to take the new coach, his staff and the leadership group all banded together to do it however it's going to be hard with a leadership group who is currently not up to that. I think it's going to take a fairly big effort to bring something to Carlton that we probably haven't had since Sticks was captain.

Change the culture and improve our leadership. Culture needs to be based around worth ethic, professionalism and ruthless competitiveness. Our leaders need to improve how they back up the coaching group, enforce the coach's instructions and team values on the field and make those who aren't adhering to them accountable. It's extremely clear we lack that. We need our leaders to be louder voiced and more assertive. Hence the important of having strong extraverted personalities in the team.

We need to become more ruthless in terms of how we structure up, how we apply pressure and how we compete physically.

Changing that is going to be incredibly hard because bad habits are already ingrained into players who have gotten away with things for far too long now. Our leadership group is going to require training and coaching to improve their leadership skills and it's going to be hard for them to really get the message through to players who aren't playing in a way that reflects what our team values should be.

If we get the right coach in who can get our leadership firing and begins to enforce strong team values some players will be broken and moved on and some will be made.

SOS has brought a lot of players to our club who have plenty of talent but they way they play the game is terrible and it's all because of this. Fixing this will require an effort and we need to be prepared for a few players to want out and the possibility that at the end of 2022 the new coach may want to clean house a bit.

The new coach is not here to rocket us into finals and make us a contender next year as great as that would be. He will be there to get us going in the right direction, fix what is broken and to have a new premiership in the cabinet within the next 3-5 years.

Yep, great points - not sure about his contract status but Will Setterfield is perfect example

 

[gbatman]

Yep, great points - not sure about his contract status but Will Setterfield is perfect example

We have a very long list of players who have talent but the way they apply themselves is shocking, he's one of many. I wonder just how well our leadership group has supported our coach?... in this century?

 

[Arr0w]

How do you know he isn't?

How do you know he is?

 

[BlueTongue]

It's not even the B and C graders, Every player on our list has given conditional performances at times this year. Whether injured or not they accepted team selection.

Those same players knew they also would not be at their best or 50% of it when they did.

It is not their consideration that 50% is better than the replacements 100%.

It speaks into the entire culture of the club and shows people what is being accepted regarding performance.

Agreed. Other than Walsh, absolutely none of our mids or flankers, have been consistent or even put in an a grade performance more than 2-3 times. Culture has to change, and no-one should be safe from being dropped. Also, no more recruiting of players that have been delisted from other clubs due to sub par performance, especially if they are over 23 years of age. Name one that has worked for us? Oskar Mc was the only one who seemed to grab his opportunity, but was never seen again. Not sure what went on there.

if we are recruiting depth, they should all be young up and comers, only proven senior players should be recruited to fill holes.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

So many issues not sure where we start, lack of intensity against North and Gold Coast with possible finals on the line is really troubling.

Ruck -
TDK - young body and possibly carrying a pectoral injury from Saints game.
Pittonett - pedestrIan ruck at best. A back up rather than a #1.
Casboult - if reports of knee injury are true, likely finished.
Mirkov - injured

Over 30’s -
Was a strength earlier in rebuild, but has caught up with us rather quickly.
Murphy, Betts, Casboult, Ed Curnow, Jones -
Murphy and Betts are done.
Casboult - if reports of knee injury are true, likely finished.
Ed Curnow - unlikely we keep Ed Curnow if we upgrade to Hewett (our interest in Hewett is reported). Possible depth option.
Jones - stays.

24-28 year olds
Cripps - jury out on ‘leadership’. Maybe carrying a back injury. Seems slow and fails to take first option often, so often tacked. Telegraphs his kicks resulting in turnovers.
Docherty -jury out on ‘leadership’. Bad case of fumbles in 2021. Seems out of gas too early in matches. Perhaps a longer pre-season helps in 2022.
Newnes, Newman - ok, not great.
Plowman - not much love, poor defensive system catches him out.
Martin - rushed back too soon played injured.
Saad - played injured but below expectation.
Williams -injured a lot, questions on desire to be as fit as possible.
Marchbank -injured, cannot get on the park.
Gibbons - 50/50

‘Key position‘ players
If only we could have Harry, Charlie, JSOS, McGov, Weiters, Jones, Marchbank and McDonald all available.
We are lucky Jones missed just the 1 match this season.
Certainly need to get a more durable KPD and draft a developing KPD.
Marchbank to rookie list, think McDonald gone if rumour re: ongoing injury is true.
Parks a project.

Young players
When you look at the number we have drafted, it highlights that our development since we went down the rebuild path in 2015 was really bad. Some played better under Bolton than under Teague.

2015 Draft - Weitering, Harry, Charlie, Cuningham and JSOS, traded in Kennedy - keep them all.
2016 Draft - SPS, Fisher, Williamson, traded in Setterfield. Have all gone backwards.
2017 Draft - Dow, L’Ob, TDK, Fogarty traded in. Dow is ok but lacks a tank, L’Ob has the wing attributes we need but has gone backwards, TDK still 2 years away but remains our best ruck. Fogarty gets another year needs a good pre-season.
2018 Draft - Walsh, Stocker - keep both.
2019 Draft - Kemp, Philp, Ramsay. Worried about Philp with injury. Kemp and Ramsay yet to debut.
2020 Draft - Durdin, Carroll. Too soon.

Cottrell, Owies, Honey, Parks. Owies and Honey stay. Not sure we can improve Cottrell’s footy IQ but perhaps we can turn him into a tagger. Parks a project.


I think we go backwards in 2022 to reset the rebuild. Tough calls on some of the younger players we keep and which go (not all have trade value and not all can be put on the rookie list).

Retire / delist - Betts, Murphy, Casboult. Ed Curnow 50/50.
Injury calls - Marchbank, Philp.
Trade - SPS, L’Ob, Fisher. (All 3 reflect how poor our development is)
Big pre-season - McGovern, Dow, Stocker, Fogarty, Williams, Williamson.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

How do you know he is?

Thats right. So why call it poor if someone has a differing opinion than you?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

That is ludicrous if true. A big part of our future and one of few who actually plays footy in the right way, that would stand up in finals. Pay him what he deserves (and I'm sure he's not asking for anything unrealistic).

All negotiations would be on hold during the review. It won't be true.

 

[Arr0w]

Thats right. So why call it poor if someone has a differing opinion than you?

If it's opinion that's fine, we can do the same for every player on the list, but not posting it as fact

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Tell us which young players that your source is telling you are upset and thinking about leaving?

Sydney have sounded out at least 2

 

[HereComesJuddy]

If it's opinion that's fine, we can do the same for every player on the list, but not posting it as fact

And if it is fact re Teague? Why does it bother you?

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Sydney have sounded out at least 2

Sydney would love LOB hitting their players up inside 50...

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Sydney have sounded out at least 2

Plowman and Newman

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Plowman and Newman

No Newman isn't going back

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

We could do a lot worse than Cerra. Our midfield is the worst in the comp. Cripps isn't getting any younger.

The future is TDK and Walsh. Need at least another 3 to go with them two. Praying Dow, Kemp, Stocker, SPS are those but they are all unknowns atm.

Setterfield, Cunningham, SPS, Kennedy all not coming on to be genuine midfield guns really hurts.

Just on Cunners, I reckon he has been the one we have missed the most this season since he did his knee. He was just hitting his straps and growing in confidence. Such a shame for him that he broke down. Hopefully next season we will be watching his burst and elite kicking again and realising what a point of difference he does make to our mid field.