Analysis 2021 Rule Changes - How will they affect our side?

Remove this Banner Ad

F_therest

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2013
16,039
34,561
AFL Club
Carlton
Interpretation ruins the game again.

No issue with Daniher using his natural arc, as long as the umpire calls play on as soon as he moves off the line.

Otherwise, every player in the game will develop a ‘natural arc’ so they don’t have to kick over the bloke on the mark. Can run out to either side and kick from level with the player on the mark and no one can move to intercept until the umpire calls play on.
Found footage here: https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/w...s/news-story/b94ac93d8df909253d3bf6b22545bed7

The article does also state that umps are instructed to call play on as soon as a player deviates off the line, even if it's a 'natural arc'. So this shouldn't happen in the real season.
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,868
12,837
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
Think we will be ok with these rules, all things going well we should have onfield rotations for the midfield which is good and something we didn't have last season. Some of our running players like Saad will like the man on the mark rule and hopefully some of our other defenders can get onboard here.

The low rotation rule could be interesting. I'm worried we're going to see more athletes in the game and less skilled and talented footballers which is going to be incredible bad for the game. Also worried we will see a lot more flooding and slow/tempo play rather than teams looking to go forward and attack but I could be wrong.

As for our players, having a few natural runners will be an advantage. Guys like Curnow and Walsh are going to have to stay out there. The more impact types who don't have the elite stamina will have to be the ones who rotate while others won't be able to.

Makes it tough to bring young players through, for instance if Dow and Stocker are playing well and are good naturally talented footballers but can't run the marathon then we are limited here. Makes it hard to carry both if both are playing good football but aren't able to run up and back all day, maybe we can have one and they are the player who rotates while others tend not to.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Ash Man

Debutant
Jul 30, 2020
117
267
AFL Club
Carlton
It is a sh*t rule that comes down to when the umpire releases the defender manning the mark. Will make all the difference in who scores and when.

Plenty of examples of players starting or running off the mark and allowed to continue while the defender stands helplessly about 5 metres to the side ... to the opposite interpretation where play on is called as soon as the player with the ball turns laterally to look for options.

Going to cause chaos and umpires will be blamed again. Idiots in charge making stupid rules for stupid reasons again
I think it is an attempt to clarify the intent of the original rule.
You are supposed to stand the mark. Coaches/teams have found ways to manoeuvre to their advantage to reset defence. This will take away time for the defensive reset and force more one on one defending. I think it will have a positive impact.
There will be some howlers and the consequences are significant but overall I think it will be a positive.
I appreciate the law of unintended consequences but still think this one is worth pursuing.
 
Last edited:

Ash Man

Debutant
Jul 30, 2020
117
267
AFL Club
Carlton
Think we will be ok with these rules, all things going well we should have onfield rotations for the midfield which is good and something we didn't have last season. Some of our running players like Saad will like the man on the mark rule and hopefully some of our other defenders can get onboard here.

The low rotation rule could be interesting. I'm worried we're going to see more athletes in the game and less skilled and talented footballers which is going to be incredible bad for the game. Also worried we will see a lot more flooding and slow/tempo play rather than teams looking to go forward and attack but I could be wrong.

As for our players, having a few natural runners will be an advantage. Guys like Curnow and Walsh are going to have to stay out there. The more impact types who don't have the elite stamina will have to be the ones who rotate while others won't be able to.

Makes it tough to bring young players through, for instance if Dow and Stocker are playing well and are good naturally talented footballers but can't run the marathon then we are limited here. Makes it hard to carry both if both are playing good football but aren't able to run up and back all day, maybe we can have one and they are the player who rotates while others tend not to.
Batman I think lower rotations could see elite midfielders rested more up forward and defensive structures breakdown later in quarters opening up more opportunities for key forwards.
Like all rule changes there could be unintended consequences so I guess we will see.
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,868
12,837
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
Batman I think lower rotations could see elite midfielders rested more up forward and defensive structures breakdown later in quarters opening up more opportunities for key forwards.
Like all rule changes there could be unintended consequences so I guess we will see.
I hope so but I get the feeling we will see the exact opposite.

Players will still run up and back and defend as a team, just when it comes to selection we might see a Cottrell selected over a Stocker. The athlete with the ordinary skills over the footballer with the good skills. We might see teams get a lead then start holding the ball up after a mark and playing possession footy which means sideways and backwards play and bombing up the boundary to contests and this is how teams will rest. By spending more time standing in zones and creating slow stop start play. Flooding where teams stack the defence to rest their players and just play slow footy to hold up time and catch their breath.

This is what I am concerned with seeing with rotation further restricted. It's how teams are going to manage the fatigue and they might do it by selecting athletes (which is bad for the game) and by playing slow shutdown footy which is also bad for the game that concerns me.

I get the feeling that the AFL are going to find out that by trying to stop defending they will end up stopping attacking instead and that the best way to promote attacking play is to allow teams to defend as they like but to make sure they have plenty in the tank to attack and to make it easier to select the right players and those are the ones who have skills and don't have to have the ability to run all day . But I could be wrong and the coaches just might want to score goals. I hope this is a situation where just playing football proves to beat relentless defending.

Onfield rotations are definitely going to be a big thing. I hope we see defensive structures break down late in quarters but I think we will see flooding.
 

Ash Man

Debutant
Jul 30, 2020
117
267
AFL Club
Carlton
I hope so but I get the feeling we will see the exact opposite.

Players will still run up and back and defend as a team, just when it comes to selection we might see a Cottrell selected over a Stocker. The athlete with the ordinary skills over the footballer with the good skills. We might see teams get a lead then start holding the ball up after a mark and playing possession footy which means sideways and backwards play and bombing up the boundary to contests and this is how teams will rest. By spending more time standing in zones and creating slow stop start play. Flooding where teams stack the defence to rest their players and just play slow footy to hold up time and catch their breath.

This is what I am concerned with seeing with rotation further restricted. It's how teams are going to manage the fatigue and they might do it by selecting athletes (which is bad for the game) and by playing slow shutdown footy which is also bad for the game that concerns me.

I get the feeling that the AFL are going to find out that by trying to stop defending they will end up stopping attacking instead and that the best way to promote attacking play is to allow teams to defend as they like but to make sure they have plenty in the tank to attack and to make it easier to select the right players and those are the ones who have skills and don't have to have the ability to run all day . But I could be wrong and the coaches just might want to score goals. I hope this is a situation where just playing football proves to beat relentless defending.

Onfield rotations are definitely going to be a big thing. I hope we see defensive structures break down late in quarters but I think we will see flooding.
Definitely a possibility
I hope so but I get the feeling we will see the exact opposite.

Players will still run up and back and defend as a team, just when it comes to selection we might see a Cottrell selected over a Stocker. The athlete with the ordinary skills over the footballer with the good skills. We might see teams get a lead then start holding the ball up after a mark and playing possession footy which means sideways and backwards play and bombing up the boundary to contests and this is how teams will rest. By spending more time standing in zones and creating slow stop start play. Flooding where teams stack the defence to rest their players and just play slow footy to hold up time and catch their breath.

This is what I am concerned with seeing with rotation further restricted. It's how teams are going to manage the fatigue and they might do it by selecting athletes (which is bad for the game) and by playing slow shutdown footy which is also bad for the game that concerns me.

I get the feeling that the AFL are going to find out that by trying to stop defending they will end up stopping attacking instead and that the best way to promote attacking play is to allow teams to defend as they like but to make sure they have plenty in the tank to attack and to make it easier to select the right players and those are the ones who have skills and don't have to have the ability to run all day . But I could be wrong and the coaches just might want to score goals. I hope this is a situation where just playing football proves to beat relentless defending.

Onfield rotations are definitely going to be a big thing. I hope we see defensive structures break down late in quarters but I think we will see flooding.
I see where you are coming from in that some impact players are the most attacking
I see the biggest issue as the athletes whose job it is to enable defending structures. Tire them out and hopefully get more space for forwards.
They could just flood but they won’t have the energy for a fast break so they’ll never score!
Time will tell
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,868
12,837
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
Definitely a possibility

I see where you are coming from in that some impact players are the most attacking
I see the biggest issue as the athletes whose job it is to enable defending structures. Tire them out and hopefully get more space for forwards.
They could just flood but they won’t have the energy for a fast break so they’ll never score!
Time will tell
One thing with modern footy is there are two clear structural tactics, one is to spread the field with a balanced structure and move the ball quickly and directly and score quickly. Usually both teams start this way then one of them will react with a defensive structure if the margin has blown out, say 25-30ish points.

The other is to play numbers behind the ball and move it a little slower and score slowly while denying the opposition. Teams will employ the defensive tactic when they gain a lead and feel the momentum may swing to hold their lead or they do it because they have fallen too far behind and feel they can defend themselves back into the game.

Defending themselves back in the game is a tactic that works way too well against us and something that we need to get a grip on. It's the reason we gave away so many leads last season, because we didn't have a plan to react to that and counteract it like the good sides do. We've seen it used famously in the 2018 grand final by West Coast who were blown away early in an open attacking game where Collingwood were too quick and scoring too much so they went defensive, denied Collingwood the corridor and space up forward, slowed the game down and slowly came back in the game. We see teams do it to us and we let teams literally intercept and rebound their way back in front, for example the Hawthorn game. The good teams react to this tactic by slowing the game down, not going forward too quickly and all out attack, they hold it up from their marks, kick short, sideways, backwards, switch play more and when pressured go long up the boundary to contests and eat up the time to counteract the other sides defensive ploy. The bad teams like us don't react and continue to drive if forward quickly and the opposition intercepting/rebounding players do the rest.

I think we will see a lot of this. I think teams will get a lead and decide to rest their players by standing them in defence and slowing down the ball movement. Teams will always want to be able to push players back and they will make sure they can so they wont have players running from half back into defensive 50, they will have them running from the center line to defensive 50, they will look to play a defensive, intercepting, slow game more than normal. They will still defend IMO but they will spend less energy on the attack. I think some teams will try to attack for longer but they may not be as successful as the teams who defend for longer. I don't know yet, it's a tough one, we may see things change for the best and tired players still on the attack or we may see teams with plenty of space in their back halves but run into a wall in their forward lines. Will taking the fuel out of the players see teams attacking less and defending more or will it keep things more balanced? I don't know yet and I don't think anyone will until the season is towards the end.

As for the impact players of the game, they are the premier players of the game, they are the ones people come to watch who bring excitement to the game. Judd used to come on and off the bench countless times per quarter, don't know how he would go with heavy interchange caps. I think IC caps are creating a heavy push towards players who are elite runners and that's taking away some players who are exciting impact players and creating more dull footballers. It's creating longer development timeframes for young players too, particularly midfielders and to a slightly lesser extent flankers.

It's the battle with trying to keep players at home and the field spread V teams wanting to and finding ways to defend better than their opponents. Not sure what's going to win there and whether it's going to suit us.

One thing I will be watching keenly is how we go this season when teams go defensive against us. Last season we were so easily beaten by defensive tactics, teams will know that and be quick to try it against us. We were good in open play last year when we were attacking and the opposition were attacking but as soon as things went defensive at the stoppages and they threw numbers behind the ball we just went forward quick, turned it over easily got smashed on the rebound and lost games doing so so hopefully we have that plan b for when that happens.
 

Ash Man

Debutant
Jul 30, 2020
117
267
AFL Club
Carlton
One thing with modern footy is there are two clear structural tactics, one is to spread the field with a balanced structure and move the ball quickly and directly and score quickly. Usually both teams start this way then one of them will react with a defensive structure if the margin has blown out, say 25-30ish points.

The other is to play numbers behind the ball and move it a little slower and score slowly while denying the opposition. Teams will employ the defensive tactic when they gain a lead and feel the momentum may swing to hold their lead or they do it because they have fallen too far behind and feel they can defend themselves back into the game.

Defending themselves back in the game is a tactic that works way too well against us and something that we need to get a grip on. It's the reason we gave away so many leads last season, because we didn't have a plan to react to that and counteract it like the good sides do. We've seen it used famously in the 2018 grand final by West Coast who were blown away early in an open attacking game where Collingwood were too quick and scoring too much so they went defensive, denied Collingwood the corridor and space up forward, slowed the game down and slowly came back in the game. We see teams do it to us and we let teams literally intercept and rebound their way back in front, for example the Hawthorn game. The good teams react to this tactic by slowing the game down, not going forward too quickly and all out attack, they hold it up from their marks, kick short, sideways, backwards, switch play more and when pressured go long up the boundary to contests and eat up the time to counteract the other sides defensive ploy. The bad teams like us don't react and continue to drive if forward quickly and the opposition intercepting/rebounding players do the rest.

I think we will see a lot of this. I think teams will get a lead and decide to rest their players by standing them in defence and slowing down the ball movement. Teams will always want to be able to push players back and they will make sure they can so they wont have players running from half back into defensive 50, they will have them running from the center line to defensive 50, they will look to play a defensive, intercepting, slow game more than normal. They will still defend IMO but they will spend less energy on the attack. I think some teams will try to attack for longer but they may not be as successful as the teams who defend for longer. I don't know yet, it's a tough one, we may see things change for the best and tired players still on the attack or we may see teams with plenty of space in their back halves but run into a wall in their forward lines. Will taking the fuel out of the players see teams attacking less and defending more or will it keep things more balanced? I don't know yet and I don't think anyone will until the season is towards the end.

As for the impact players of the game, they are the premier players of the game, they are the ones people come to watch who bring excitement to the game. Judd used to come on and off the bench countless times per quarter, don't know how he would go with heavy interchange caps. I think IC caps are creating a heavy push towards players who are elite runners and that's taking away some players who are exciting impact players and creating more dull footballers. It's creating longer development timeframes for young players too, particularly midfielders and to a slightly lesser extent flankers.

It's the battle with trying to keep players at home and the field spread V teams wanting to and finding ways to defend better than their opponents. Not sure what's going to win there and whether it's going to suit us.

One thing I will be watching keenly is how we go this season when teams go defensive against us. Last season we were so easily beaten by defensive tactics, teams will know that and be quick to try it against us. We were good in open play last year when we were attacking and the opposition were attacking but as soon as things went defensive at the stoppages and they threw numbers behind the ball we just went forward quick, turned it over easily got smashed on the rebound and lost games doing so so hopefully we have that plan b for when that happens.
I don’t agree that impact players are always the most skilled.
They operate at fastest speed but can’t maintain. They also train for that roll.
Greg Williams was not an impact player or an athlete - just a high quality footballer. The speed of current game means he would have struggled to impact enough contests. My hope is that providing less breaks to catch your breath means players have to play in their area more of the time and there is more space for the likes of a diesel to impact game between the arcs.
One possibility of new stand mark rule is longer range shots at goal. This is because players can wheel and go unimpeded. Will that change defensive setup.
As you say we won’t know until it has played out.
 

haveago

lovethegame02
Apr 29, 2015
1,217
3,081
AFL Club
Carlton
In the glimpse we saw last week Saad is going to love this rule.

Looking forward to more of it tonight...... He is off like a rat up a drain pipe..... no stopping him.

Andellay ippa
1614821523263.png
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,868
12,837
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
I don’t agree that impact players are always the most skilled.
They operate at fastest speed but can’t maintain. They also train for that roll.
Greg Williams was not an impact player or an athlete - just a high quality footballer. The speed of current game means he would have struggled to impact enough contests. My hope is that providing less breaks to catch your breath means players have to play in their area more of the time and there is more space for the likes of a diesel to impact game between the arcs.
One possibility of new stand mark rule is longer range shots at goal. This is because players can wheel and go unimpeded. Will that change defensive setup.
As you say we won’t know until it has played out.
I would call an impact player as someone who is damaging with at least one of the things they regularly do and that has a big impact on games. Someone who can kick a haul of goals and turn a game, an elite defender, someone who is an elite tackler/chaser, someone who is an elite extractor, someone who is an elite interceptor or a big ball winner or someone who really makes their possessions count, someone with burst speed who can get into dangerous areas.

I would call players such as Dustin Martin or Paddy Cripps or Eddy Betts in his prime as impact players. Adam Saad is an impact player. Players who can do one thing exceptionally well, consistently and have a big impact on games when they do it. I don't classify running up and back and running elite Kilometres as being impact players, they are just part of a total system and teams want this total system so they are going to be favourable to these types and many of these types don't have great skills and don't impact in these ways I mentioned. They just cover a lot of ground, run up and back well and do the basics well and just grind away.

Diesel was a great impact player, the 95' Grand Final he went forward and kicked 5 goals and had over 30 possessions, was a classic example of not just an impact player but an elite one who did three things to massively impact that game. Kicked goals, won the ball, used it to an extraordinary high level. Could he be a top level player today? If his endurance running ability was up to it then probably. Sam Mitchell got around just fine with the same limitations as Diesel and he was a great player in the modern game.

A lot of people give the tag impact player to a player who is average in most areas bar one but really an impact player is anyone who can impact the game with one or more things that they do. IMO this isn't right an impact player is a player who does one thing to the level where it often has a really high influence on the game and if they can do two or three things that are elite and have really strong influences on the game, they are still impact players and Diesel was an impact player in many ways IMO. He could impact a game by winning a lot of the ball, with super good disposal or by kicking a bag of goals and that's why he was so special.

It's the impact players who might have one or two things special about them that are being hurt by a game that requires excessive amounts of endurance. They might be able to do one or two things exceptionally well but if they can't run 15km they miss a spot in the team kind of thing whereas prior to IC caps a player who had something special could come into team and come on and off the bench. Do their thing, have their impact and have a rest. We're probably not going to see as much of Stocker or Dow because of the IC caps. These guys might create a bit with burst speed and ball winning and great footy skills but they miss out because they can't run well enough and they can't come on and off the bench so someone else gets the gig like Newnes. Newnes is an elite runner but his skills are average, he's not an elite player in any way but he grinds away, does everything at an acceptable level and covers a lot of ground and this is sort of what I am getting at where athletes are playing ahead of footballers or impact players.
 

Ash Man

Debutant
Jul 30, 2020
117
267
AFL Club
Carlton
I would call an impact player as someone who is damaging with at least one of the things they regularly do and that has a big impact on games. Someone who can kick a haul of goals and turn a game, an elite defender, someone who is an elite tackler/chaser, someone who is an elite extractor, someone who is an elite interceptor or a big ball winner or someone who really makes their possessions count, someone with burst speed who can get into dangerous areas.

I would call players such as Dustin Martin or Paddy Cripps or Eddy Betts in his prime as impact players. Adam Saad is an impact player. Players who can do one thing exceptionally well, consistently and have a big impact on games when they do it. I don't classify running up and back and running elite Kilometres as being impact players, they are just part of a total system and teams want this total system so they are going to be favourable to these types and many of these types don't have great skills and don't impact in these ways I mentioned. They just cover a lot of ground, run up and back well and do the basics well and just grind away.

Diesel was a great impact player, the 95' Grand Final he went forward and kicked 5 goals and had over 30 possessions, was a classic example of not just an impact player but an elite one who did three things to massively impact that game. Kicked goals, won the ball, used it to an extraordinary high level. Could he be a top level player today? If his endurance running ability was up to it then probably. Sam Mitchell got around just fine with the same limitations as Diesel and he was a great player in the modern game.

A lot of people give the tag impact player to a player who is average in most areas bar one but really an impact player is anyone who can impact the game with one or more things that they do. IMO this isn't right an impact player is a player who does one thing to the level where it often has a really high influence on the game and if they can do two or three things that are elite and have really strong influences on the game, they are still impact players and Diesel was an impact player in many ways IMO. He could impact a game by winning a lot of the ball, with super good disposal or by kicking a bag of goals and that's why he was so special.

It's the impact players who might have one or two things special about them that are being hurt by a game that requires excessive amounts of endurance. They might be able to do one or two things exceptionally well but if they can't run 15km they miss a spot in the team kind of thing whereas prior to IC caps a player who had something special could come into team and come on and off the bench. Do their thing, have their impact and have a rest. We're probably not going to see as much of Stocker or Dow because of the IC caps. These guys might create a bit with burst speed and ball winning and great footy skills but they miss out because they can't run well enough and they can't come on and off the bench so someone else gets the gig like Newnes. Newnes is an elite runner but his skills are average, he's not an elite player in any way but he grinds away, does everything at an acceptable level and covers a lot of ground and this is sort of what I am getting at where athletes are playing ahead of footballers or impact players.
This is where I disagree.
It’s only high speed/low endurance impact players who are negatively impacted (sic) by less rotations e.g Judd. All other impact examples it depends on their endurance
One of the great strengths of key forwards is repeat leads (endurance)
Great onballers with silky skills can often run all day but are not always fast.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

JuddgementDay

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 10, 2010
8,845
10,069
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Just going by this game
1. Clean ball handling
2. Contested Mark's
3. Gut running

Not much changed, but it's all more pronounced.

Rules look good so far & hopefully support a more attacking brand
 

CJMB

Premiership Player
Aug 30, 2017
4,064
13,429
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
With the man on mark rule, can you have no-one on the mark, but someone outside the 5m zone free to move around?
You can, St Kilda did it a fair bit last night, and that early 50m against them was because a player (can't remember who) tried to get back out of the standing mark zone too late and the umpire had called 'stand'.

The flip side of standing back is that if the other team can use that extra bit of space ahead of the mark position and put together a seriously fast passage of play, more or less unencumbered by the opposition who are sort of caught in-between. We had a run that was almost coast to coast and resulted in a goal, from memory Murph had the pill in the space between the centre circle and the 50.

It looked to me that there's going to be a various situations where you either want to hold the mark, getting in fast to stand in position, and other times you'll want to let them have the space, trying to zone and keep an eye on those fast & low deliveries, the inside 45 as the commentators love saying, where it can really open up the ground.

We'll have to watch and see how the different teams approach it; predominantly on the mark or evacuating to leave the space and remain free to move, or a balance of both. I'll be interested to see Richmond's approach too.
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,868
12,837
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
This is where I disagree.
It’s only high speed/low endurance impact players who are negatively impacted (sic) by less rotations e.g Judd. All other impact examples it depends on their endurance
One of the great strengths of key forwards is repeat leads (endurance)
Great onballers with silky skills can often run all day but are not always fast.
Well that's it, how many good to watch types and up and coming young guys are missing out because their endurance isn't up to it? We seem to be seeing talented early draft picks playing in the seconds more than ever not from a lack of skills but from a lack of running ability. IMO I'd love to see both Stocker and Dow out there, they are both good footballer and can provide some excitement but we're going to see a few older ordinary players out there instead.
 

BigBreakfast

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 19, 2019
5,577
8,500
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Lakeshow
Wonder what faster games with longer quarters and less interchanges will do for soft tissue injuries? Another Hammy for Stewart against the Cats. Early days...
 

Remove this Banner Ad