News 2021 St.Kilda Media Thread

[AirWinmar]

We're in a lot more trouble than I thought if our core group is in the right age bracket and this is what we're dishing up.

Something isn't right at the club. I think it's really hard to evaluate players based on what's happened this year. Guys like Coff and Long look to be even struggling at VFL level. Butler is terribly out of form. Wilkie seems down on last year. Members has been down on form.

The only players who seem to be in form are Steele, Howard, Ross, Marshall, Ryder, Byrnes and Billings consistently

 

[stavro#4]

Hey credit for being an optimist. Can’t say I share the same views. Since we started the rebuild in 2012, our drafting and trading has been very poor, hence we are where we are.

I’m neutral. Dirty on this season and the messaging.
Thrilled last year.
Hoping for a step back to go 2 forward next year.

 

[Stewart66]

I’m neutral. Dirty on this season and the messaging.
Thrilled last year.
Hoping for a step back to go 2 forward next year.

Stepping back with Youth ...no brainer ....kept saying was transitioning year.

Would be more concerned if Admin was not good ...convinced it’s light years ahead from the past.

 

[Mat Mann]

Tanking is never the answer. Look at Carlton - they tanked for a decade and they are still sh*t

no, it's not, I agree, but getting games into the few young guys we have and ensuring the ones we want out aren't up to it should be part of the process here on out.

 

[gringo2011]

Kent Dunstan Roberton would all be overpaid for their contribution and would give us decent flexibility next season.

If you move on Billings you gain 750k let’s say we take a kid if we get a first round compo so 150k. That’s another 600k (Bing).

I imagine Membrey re-signs on lower coin aswell. Ross will do this too.

Going forward the list probably gets a max cap of 650-700k for deals unless we bring in a star who breaks that cap.

A bit of a worry that we have to shift Billings on to make space in our cap. Is it all legacy contracts or is Gags shit as well?

 

[stavro#4]

A bit of a worry that we have to shift Billings on to make space in our cap. Is it all legacy contracts or is Gags sh*t as well?

I’m not saying Billings needs to be shifted to make room in the cap. Hanners going would make room for a big contract.

Billings going gives you currency and a big salary space in the cap.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Our trading has been fine Hanners aside.

The issue is we have not drafted well

I haven’t minded our drafting since 2015.
Even with our later picks getting guys like Byrnes, Bytel look to be a few late gems.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Saints urged to follow Bombers list approach

"They need to make this call at some stage."

www.sen.com.au

Lol slow news day

 

[ScrappyDo]

Howard is a huge win
Ryder huge win
Butler poor season coming off an immense season
Hill major disappointment
Higgins happy with
Jones happy with - injuries drop his score
Hanners huge disappointment

Don’t think I’ve missed any other major trades. We are winning more then losing. Hill is redeemable aswelll.

So I’ll back in gags and Gubby.

Not enough sample size to critique Libba

I'm enjoying your posting at the moment stavro. You're one of the few who are pushing back against the avalanche of rubbish at the moment.

On Libba, I reckon our sample size is good enough.
He's not been given much to work with since being appointed, and much of what he has had went on players that were taken because of list policy directives from above. Young, Parker(*), Hind, Smack, Frawley, Wood, Punter, etc.
It's just that we've been madly trading picks for established players, which is not something that can be laid at Libba's feet.
We've also had zero benefits from FS or NGA since it was invented.

Wins: Clark, Coff, Pato, Bytel, Byrnes, Wilkie (King was Lethers call)

Too early to call: Connolly, Highmore, Claverino, Allison

Losses: Bell, Langlands, Parker*

Of the confirmed busts, the highest pick wasted was Parker* at #47, the rest were junk picks. If Clav busts it'll be pick 35 but I blame Trout for that one.

Anyway I reckon that's pretty good. I wonder how many other recruiters haven't wasted a single pick above #47 since 2017.

 

[austinnn]

Something isn't right at the club. I think it's really hard to evaluate players based on what's happened this year. Guys like Coff and Long look to be even struggling at VFL level. Butler is terribly out of form. Wilkie seems down on last year. Members has been down on form.

The only players who seem to be in form are Steele, Howard, Ross, Marshall, Ryder, Byrnes and Billings consistently

This is what happens when you trust players to run their own fitness programme.

 

[austinnn]

this needs its own thread, but the question is, where to from here.

we have the older types, retirees, cloggers who will go Carlisle, Dunstan, Hannaberry, Hunter, McKernan, Geary, Roberton, Wood, Frawley plus 4 open list spots.

How do we replace these guys with QUALITY, we have all the foot soldiers and support players a team could ask for, it's the elite talent and x-factor we are still missing. Outside of Steel, we have a few who may make that step.

Tanking from here may be our best shot at re jigging.

My concern is that we will have a lot of players in that list leaving at the end of the year, and not many positions on the 2021 draft board, which means we either go into the next season with a short list or we top up with lower grade talent, as we have this year - McKernan, Hunter & Wood.

Another related point is that because of this we might keep players who don't have much of a chance of meaningful contribution rather than delisting them because we can't lose too many players, it means our depth will be much the same as this season.

 

[El HOSS]

The failings of our team and the poor output from the recruited depth group leave us in an interesting position. I don't think it's ideal to throw out 6 odd players and bring in 6 18 year olds, most of whom will be added with later picks, for the sake of just 'getting younger'. Alternatively, we keep blokes with little to no improvement in them that don't help our cause to avoid being too young and having no mature bodies. There's a balance to be achieved obviously... however there's a reasonable argument that the youth route is more pragmatic given we're getting little out of the older blokes now anyway. I think i'd tend to go that way, it means that 2022 could easily become a transition year, as would 2023 if we don't nail the higher picks next year or they take longer to develop. That's pretty devastating to say, however, I'm pretty bullish on the young core we have... not that anyone in the media is....barring Sam McClure

 

[Mat Mann]

My concern is that we will have a lot of players in that list leaving at the end of the year, and not many positions on the 2021 draft board, which means we either go into the next season with a short list or we top up with lower grade talent, as we have this year - McKernan, Hunter & Wood.

Another related point is that because of this we might keep players who don't have much of a chance of meaningful contribution rather than delisting them because we can't lose too many players, it means our depth will be much the same as this season.

certainly an issue
just some quick numbers
draft 3 players( 1st rnd, 3rd rnd, 4th round) (3)
upgrade Wilkie
talked about taking just 1 player mid-season draft (4)
Rookies
SPP

it's going to be tough to add the top end talent

 

[stavro#4]

I'm enjoying your posting at the moment stavro. You're one of the few who are pushing back against the avalanche of rubbish at the moment.

On Libba, I reckon our sample size is good enough.
He's not been given much to work with since being appointed, and much of what he has had went on players that were taken because of list policy directives from above. Young, Parker(*), Hind, Smack, Frawley, Wood, Punter, etc.
It's just that we've been madly trading picks for established players, which is not something that can be laid at Libba's feet.
We've also had zero benefits from FS or NGA since it was invented.

Wins: Clark, Coff, Pato, Bytel, Byrnes, Wilkie (King was Lethers call)

Too early to call: Connolly, Highmore, Claverino, Allison

Losses: Bell, Langlands, Parker*

Of the confirmed busts, the highest pick wasted was Parker* at #47, the rest were junk picks. If Clav busts it'll be pick 35 but I blame Trout for that one.

Anyway I reckon that's pretty good. I wonder how many other recruiters haven't wasted a single pick above #47 since 2017.

You are probably the only one enjoying my posting lately. It’s against the grain by about 1-2 weeks.

With Libba, until he gets a sufficient number of first and second rounders. What can you judge him on? Picking in the ass end of the draft each year is a lottery.

Our position is easily fixable if you choose to be brave. I don’t believe backing the EXACT same list - as they are hugely responsible for this seasons mess.

 

[Mat Mann]

You are probably the only one enjoying my posting lately. It’s against the grain by about 1-2 weeks.

With Libba, until he gets a sufficient number of first and second rounders. What can you judge him on? Picking in the ass end of the draft each year is a lottery.

Our position is easily fixable if you choose to be brave. I don’t believe backing the EXACT same list - as they are hugely responsible for this seasons mess.

I'm still holding judgment, but,
Allison is still a strange pick, I'm no u18 guru and don't profess to know much about draftees, but we seemed to have chosen him well out of position.

 

[Mowman]

Kent Dunstan Roberton would all be overpaid for their contribution and would give us decent flexibility next season.

If you move on Billings you gain 750k let’s say we take a kid if we get a first round compo so 150k. That’s another 600k (Bing).

I imagine Membrey re-signs on lower coin aswell. Ross will do this too.

Going forward the list probably gets a max cap of 650-700k for deals unless we bring in a star who breaks that cap.

Membrey already done early this year

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

You are probably the only one enjoying my posting lately. It’s against the grain by about 1-2 weeks.

With Libba, until he gets a sufficient number of first and second rounders. What can you judge him on? Picking in the ass end of the draft each year is a lottery.

Our position is easily fixable if you choose to be brave. I don’t believe backing the EXACT same list - as they are hugely responsible for this seasons mess.

I agree but being brave isn’t re-signing Seb Ross. We had a chance to rid ourselves of a ball butcher on decent money for a band 2 or 3 pick and didn’t. This one has really upset me.

 

[sasaint]

certainly an issue
just some quick numbers
draft 3 players( 1st rnd, 3rd rnd, 4th round) (3)
upgrade Wilkie
talked about taking just 1 player mid-season draft (4)
Rookies
SPP

it's going to be tough to add the top end talent

That is why I find it surprising that we only plan to take 1 mid season selection. Given the list spots to fill next year surely our second selection this mid year has to be better than a 4th or 5th round next year?

 

[stavro#4]

I agree but being brave isn’t re-signing Seb Ross. We had a chance to rid ourselves of a ball butcher on decent money for a band 2 or 3 pick and didn’t. This one has really upset me.

He should be a tagger. I honestly think he would excel.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I'm still holding judgment, but,
Allison is still a strange pick, I'm no u18 guru and don't profess to know much about draftees, but we seemed to have chosen him well out of position.

I don't think this is the case.
By pick 26 the recognized talent pool had been fished out and only O'Driscoll(27) and Poulter(30) were left. It's around that point the crap shoot started, so taking Allison also with interest from other clubs there abouts isn't a big concern.
The strangeness of the pick was to go for a skinny tall when we needed mids.

Now despite the current sentiment here our list management team is not populated with morons, and they'd also be very aware that we needed mids. They also made a strange move in passing on some reasonable talent late in the draft.
So it's not about the what, it's the why.

The why is that they had/have a strategy that we aren't privy to.
That strategy would be based on vastly better knowledge about the the draft and upcoming drafts than anyone has here. It would also be based on contracts and salary cap matters that we again aren't privy to.

Our list reset is about done as of last trade period, and we're back to being able to draft kids rather than spend our draft capital. Although, we still need a Fullback and a backup ruckman.

The reality that we've had a shocking bunch of injuries and listless performances does not invalidate the club's draft strategy.

 

[LJC05]

Dan Hannebery recruitment takes new context with changing of goalposts by Andrew Bassat

Dan Hannebery remains in injury purgatory and with expectations changing, he might cost the Saints during their proposed premiership window.

Jon Ralph

The most frustrating thing about Dan Hannebery’s brief glimpses of action in a St Kilda jumper is he is exactly the midfielder they needed him to be.
As St Kilda begins its latest round of navel-gazing about why it continues to excel at mediocrity, Hannebery remains in injury purgatory.

His latest calf complaint has him in a familiar position – 2-3 weeks away and making progress but aware the latest setback is likely only around the corner.

Hannebery has played just 13 of a possible 50 games at St Kilda, and yet his best football has been excellent.

In his five games in 2019 he averaged 25 possessions, 5.2 clearances, 4.2 tackles and the kind of 23-touch, two-goal games against Fremantle that showed why he was a star at Sydney.

So you can rip St Kilda all you want about the decision to sign him up on a four-season deal – with a fifth-year trigger – but you can understand why they took a calculated risk.

It is just that by any applicable measure, it has proved so far to be a $2 million waste.

St Kilda chief operating officer Simon Lethlean is sick of defending the Hannebery decision, but the recruitment takes on new context when the club’s new president Andrew Bassat changed the goalposts on Monday night.

In his open letter to fans he made clear the Saints always believed the club’s window would truly open next year.

“We knew that with our list profile we would need to be patient to be competitive every week against the better sides and that our genuine window would more likely start in 2022 than 2021,” he said.

If that is the case, why didn’t St Kilda save its pennies for the upcoming free agency period?

And has a club that spent in excess of $1.5 million a season on Brad Hill and Hannebery cost itself a crack at Josh Kelly?

The acting GWS captain might well stay at GWS anyway, but St Kilda has long courted the bayside junior and had a genuine crack at him back in 2017.

Alan Richardson said after his two-year extension in 2017 “if he was going to leave, we were really keen to pitch our case”.

Then in 2019 he signed a unique deal with a get-out clause for this year despite strong interest from St Kilda, North Melbourne and Carlton.

One of the biggest rules of list management is not to burn your cap space before you actually reach your premiership window.

Kelly is contracted on $1 million a season so won’t come cheap to any contender, but with Max King just handed a hefty pay rise and Jack Billings keen for fair compensation, St Kilda’s once-ample cap space must be shrinking by the day.

St Kilda’s two burst midfielders with a hard edge in Jade Gresham and Zak Jones are both out long-term, which is having a huge impact on the club’s onball unit.

But former captain Nick Riewoldt spoke on Fox Footy about players having full bellies – as in, taking the big pay cheque then being happy to roll along.

“There are some players there on a big whack [of money] that have got full bellies, that have come from other clubs that have had success,” he said.

“I just think at the moment the opportunity and security part of the motivation is far heavier than the hunger for real success.”

annebery is still owed his 2022 contract and wouldn’t be the last AFL player to reconfigure his contract to help create space.

Mark Mercuri is the most famous example, but Dale Thomas voided a game-based trigger that actually gave him a greater chance of playing on in the following season.

Mercuri had signed a five-year deal after the 2000 flag but after 10 and seven-goal seasons took what his manager described as a “fairly substantial cut” for 2003 onwards.

If Hannebery cannot get back on the park this year, would he consider spreading his 2022 contract across the 2022-23 seasons to gain another season but help out the club’s list management?

St Kilda won a final with Hannebery’s involvement last year but now they are on their way to rock bottom instead of the top four, surely all bets are off.

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

 

[Munga]

If that is the case, why didn’t St Kilda save its pennies for the upcoming free agency period?

Because at that stage we had cap space to burn, and clubs HAVE TO meet the minimum cap expenditure. We had to spend it on someone, no one else wanted to come to us except Hanners. It was either that or pay our players far above what they deserve. Clubs weren't allowed to "save their pennies" outside of the 5% buffer or whatever it is. Hill should be a quality player but hasn't found solid form. And I'd say their contracts would be front loaded (maybe why we've maxed the cap this year), and we'd have a stack of cap space availble going forward with that and countless delistings. Saying it's cost us a crack at Kelly though, we wanted Kelly years ago and he didn't budge. Why would we want an older Kelly now even if he does budge, on mega squillions of dollars? No one else has wanted to come to us in recent years except maybe Caldwell, who has been sitting out the season injured again. No loss there.

When no one wants to come and we're mandated to spend the cap then we haven't lost anything.

I'm glad the media is blowing the heat on us because the club deserves it. But the Hannebery and salary cap argument is just out of touch with reality. And it's not up to Hanners to offer a pay cut, the club surely knew what they were getting into with his contract and body. They hopefully mitigated this.

 

[George]

Saints Pass: Seb Ross on the eve of his 150th game;

Whooshkaa Shows

player.whooshkaa.com

 

[Diehard Saint]

I’m neutral. Dirty on this season and the messaging.
Thrilled last year.
Hoping for a step back to go 2 forward next year.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I agree but being brave isn’t re-signing Seb Ross. We had a chance to rid ourselves of a ball butcher on decent money for a band 2 or 3 pick and didn’t. This one has really upset me.

I agree. He just doesn’t do it for me. We talk vanilla team, he’s the very definition of bland.