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List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

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Crouch to Port ?? ......with outside types in Rozee & Butters, and inside bull Drew .....seems a good fit

Kane Cornes believes Port Adelaide should weigh up making a play for Hawthorn midfielder Tom Mitchell.

The Brownlow Medallist was reportedly on the trade table last season, but ultimately stayed at the Hawks, while the Power need to add to their midfield rotation.

While Cornes isn’t sure whether Mitchell is a perfect fit for Port, he does believe the club should consider the move.

“Port needs midfielders. Port fans, would you have a look at Tom Mitchell from Hawthorn who is clearly on the outer?” Cornes told SEN SA Breakfast.
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WeedsMullet84 said:

AFL Out of Contract Players in 2026

List of AFL players coming out of contract at the end of 2026.
www.footywire.com www.footywire.com

Alright everyone, here is a list of all OOC players, including Free Agents.

Throw some names around.
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Surely the Crows have the flexibility to at least offer Luke Jackson something tempting. It's been reported a WA club has a 10.5 mill 7 year deal.

It seems like he wants to go back to WA so is there a way a deal could be made to get him to free agency or would he be too old by then? Eg 7 mill across 4 years.

I know that's a crazy offer but would have to be for him to at least think about it. Also, I imagine we would have plenty of salary space to perhaps pull it off. Vic media would love it!

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Smart Fella said:
Surely the Crows have the flexibility to at least offer Luke Jackson something tempting. It's been reported a WA club has a 10.5 mill 7 year deal.

It seems like he wants to go back to WA so is there a way a deal could be made to get him to free agency or would he be too old by then? Eg 7 mill across 4 years.

I know that's a crazy offer but would have to be for him to at least think about it. Also, I imagine we would have plenty of salary space to perhaps pull it off. Vic media would love it!

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Any deal we would make would be in the same ballpark as Freo or the Eagles and there is home factor attached to it.

No way he would consider us.
 

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Big Dub said:
Been thinking the same. Not many cross the socioeconomic divide, but could be a win for all concerned.
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It seems that if they go cross the divide - they come from Port to Adelaide and not the other way around.

Port Players become Adelaide Players:

Downsborough
Bode
Symes
Frampton

Adelaide Players Join Port Adelaide:

David Brown
Brett Chalmers

*Both of these players played for Port in the SANFL before they played for the Crows and Joined Port Adelaide within the first 2 years of Port becoming an aFL Franchise.
 
Scorpus said:
www.afl.com.au

Eagles' hurdle in Jackson chase, another VFL gem for Dogs?

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
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It's an interesting one, and difficult to manage from here. Twomey isn't a gossip columnist, so my guess is that the word is out there that he would entertain leaving.

When Nicks came in it was pretty obvious he valued two-way running through the midfield, and regularly dropped (and has dropped Schoenberg this season) players who aren't up to scratch on their defensive side.

You could argue Brad Crouch and Rory Atkins were shown the door/put up for trade for this specific reason.

It's all well and good racking up 40+ possessions, but if you go to basically any game we've lost this season where Crouch/Laird/Keays combo is playing, they'll all be up there in possessions, but you look at the other teams mids with lower posessions it's their damaging stats (I'50's, DE, Score Assists, goals etc) that look so much better. Laird & Keays don't get a free pass in that regard either, but at least they track back fairly consistently, neither of the Crouch brothers have that as part of their game. Once that ball is outside of the contest, you don't see the 'manic pressure' from Crouch that we know Nicks is trying to build as team culture.

Just keep in mind when we re-signed him last year we did so when he was injured, and when no other offers came through for his services, so you can't imagine he'd be on a tonne of money. If anything he's a good depth, & an experienced inside mid. What do we care if he wants to leave, or articles pop up on SEN saying he's worth a 3rd rounder? If someone likes what he's doing in the SANFL and feels they have other players who can compensate for his defensive running then great, let them put an offer in, but he's contracted for another year.

It's not as simple as putting Laird to HB and Crouch in the middle to 'squeeze' him in. Other players know why he was dropped, so if goes back to the SANFL and doesn't address the defensive stuff, then why should other players, like Schoenberg?

My guess is that the pro's/con's have already been done on Crouch, they'll hope he lights it up a bit more in the SANFL, maybe gets a few more senior games and someone comes in with a 2nd round offer this year. I CAN see that happening with a team like Bulldogs where he might be brought in if someone like Dunkley departs, or a team who has cap issues. Not a like-for-like, obviously, but at least a stop-gap measure whilst they think they're still in a premiership window.
 
WeedsMullet84 said:
It's an interesting one, and difficult to manage from here. Twomey isn't a gossip columnist, so my guess is that the word is out there that he would entertain leaving.

When Nicks came in it was pretty obvious he valued two-way running through the midfield, and regularly dropped (and has dropped Schoenberg this season) players who aren't up to scratch on their defensive side.

You could argue Brad Crouch and Rory Atkins were shown the door/put up for trade for this specific reason.

It's all well and good racking up 40+ possessions, but if you go to basically any game we've lost this season where Crouch/Laird/Keays combo is playing, they'll all be up there in possessions, but you look at the other teams mids with lower posessions it's their damaging stats (I'50's, DE, Score Assists, goals etc) that look so much better. Laird & Keays don't get a free pass in that regard either, but at least they track back fairly consistently, neither of the Crouch brothers have that as part of their game. Once that ball is outside of the contest, you don't see the 'manic pressure' from Crouch that we know Nicks is trying to build as team culture.

Just keep in mind when we re-signed him last year we did so when he was injured, and when no other offers came through for his services, so you can't imagine he'd be on a tonne of money. If anything he's a good depth, & an experienced inside mid. What do we care if he wants to leave, or articles pop up on SEN saying he's worth a 3rd rounder? If someone likes what he's doing in the SANFL and feels they have other players who can compensate for his defensive running then great, let them put an offer in, but he's contracted for another year.

It's not as simple as putting Laird to HB and Crouch in the middle to 'squeeze' him in. Other players know why he was dropped, so if goes back to the SANFL and doesn't address the defensive stuff, then why should other players, like Schoenberg?

My guess is that the pro's/con's have already been done on Crouch, they'll hope he lights it up a bit more in the SANFL, maybe gets a few more senior games and someone comes in with a 2nd round offer this year. I CAN see that happening with a team like Bulldogs where he might be brought in if someone like Dunkley departs, or a team who has cap issues. Not a like-for-like, obviously, but at least a stop-gap measure whilst they think they're still in a premiership window.
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I hope list management are professional about this. I have nothing against Crouch but you raise what are likely to be the correct points.

Imagine being able to have a player like Crouch running around in your reserves side...it could only benefit the younger players at that level. I would be spewing if he was let go for a 3rd round pick this year. Once out of contract, I don't particularly care.

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I'm as interested in whether an individual player is going to be good or not as the next supporter but what I'm even more interested in (and highly dubious of AFC's performance on) is whether our list management team are following a clear and disciplined approach to our list build that should facilitate smart decisions (play or not play, delist or not delist) on all of our squad and in particular our developing players.

I think something like this flow chart should be the framework that our list management & coaching team (acting in unison) is always managing against and they should have total clarity about exactly where each of our players stands in this process at any point in time with the ultimate objective being to get each player through this process as quickly as possible into one of the two ultimate buckets - keeper or delist.

The problem I see is that we have bottlenecks throughout the process as we seem incapable of making good and consistent judgements on which players to invest games into and which players to delist (Davis six years on the list anyone??).

This process doesn't address the problem of making poor draft choices in the first place so it is 'garbage in, garbage out' but I think a major chunk of our problems are how we allocate the scarce commodity of AFL games across our list which is the major determinant of our development.

List Management Decision Making Process (1).jpg
 
Bob Neil said:
I'm as interested in whether an individual player is going to be good or not as the next supporter but what I'm even more interested in (and highly dubious of AFC's performance on) is whether our list management team are following a clear and disciplined approach to our list build that should facilitate smart decisions (play or not play, delist or not delist) on all of our squad and in particular our developing players.

I think something like this flow chart should be the framework that our list management & coaching team (acting in unison) is always managing against and they should have total clarity about exactly where each of our players stands in this process at any point in time with the ultimate objective being to get each player through this process as quickly as possible into one of the two ultimate buckets - keeper or delist.

The problem I see is that we have bottlenecks throughout the process as we seem incapable of making good and consistent judgements on which players to invest games into and which players to delist (Davis six years on the list anyone??).

This process doesn't address the problem of making poor draft choices in the first place so it is 'garbage in, garbage out' but I think a major chunk of our problems are how we allocate the scarce commodity of AFL games across our list which is the major determinant of our development.

View attachment 1441211
Click to expand...
One area where we desperately struggle is when a younger player has someone more established in front of them.

Whether that more senior player is an AA, B&F winner, etc or just a mediocre plodder, we don't care - they automatically get picked due to their seniority.

The younger guy has to bide their time in the SANFL time and hope there's an injury, or that the guy ahead of them gets traded or retires. There's plenty of examples of that such as:

Butts being stuck behind Talia and Hartigan until the bitter end meant that he had to learn on the job, taking on the likes of Hawkins with less than a handful of games under his belt.

Doedee was stuck behind Lever/Kelly/Cheney despite being in the best players every week at SANFL.

ROB stuck behind Jacobs, which has turned into Strachan stuck behind ROB.

Our "stacked" midfield which sees younger mids left at half forward or on the wing.

Conversely we are currently very happy to try new players on the wing, but that is due to Seedsman's career ending injury and Mad Dog Mackay retiring.

I don't think it's just about dropping senior players either, but rather we are very rigid with their roles. I mean if Keays and Laird spent 20% of their TOG at half forward to accommodate others getting some CBA's, would we be worse off? Would it hurt their games? If anything, those two scoring more goals would increase their chances of making the AA team, as they will still pick up their 28+ touches a game.
 
jackster83 said:
One area where we desperately struggle is when a younger player has someone more established in front of them.

Whether that more senior player is an AA, B&F winner, etc or just a mediocre plodder, we don't care - they automatically get picked due to their seniority.

The younger guy has to bide their time in the SANFL time and hope there's an injury, or that the guy ahead of them gets traded or retires. There's plenty of examples of that such as:

Butts being stuck behind Talia and Hartigan until the bitter end meant that he had to learn on the job, taking on the likes of Hawkins with less than a handful of games under his belt.

Doedee was stuck behind Lever/Kelly/Cheney despite being in the best players every week at SANFL.

ROB stuck behind Jacobs, which has turned into Strachan stuck behind ROB.

Our "stacked" midfield which sees younger mids left at half forward or on the wing.

Conversely we are currently very happy to try new players on the wing, but that is due to Seedsman's career ending injury and Mad Dog Mackay retiring.

I don't think it's just about dropping senior players either, but rather we are very rigid with their roles. I mean if Keays and Laird spent 20% of their TOG at half forward to accommodate others getting some CBA's, would we be worse off? Would it hurt their games? If anything, those two scoring more goals would increase their chances of making the AA team, as they will still pick up their 28+ touches a game.
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Was Keays up forward when he wasn't in the middle last game? Soligo Schoenberg and Berry were there a fair bit. As well as Laird of course.
 
just happened to catch a bit of MMM rush hour and they were talking footy with someone on the panel who mentioned that they need to verify their sources, but there was going to be some huge news on player movement at season's end. This was in the same patch of discussion that they were discussing the crows so it maybe related,maybe not
 

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jackster83 said:
One area where we desperately struggle is when a younger player has someone more established in front of them.

Whether that more senior player is an AA, B&F winner, etc or just a mediocre plodder, we don't care - they automatically get picked due to their seniority.

The younger guy has to bide their time in the SANFL time and hope there's an injury, or that the guy ahead of them gets traded or retires. There's plenty of examples of that such as:

Butts being stuck behind Talia and Hartigan until the bitter end meant that he had to learn on the job, taking on the likes of Hawkins with less than a handful of games under his belt.

Doedee was stuck behind Lever/Kelly/Cheney despite being in the best players every week at SANFL.

ROB stuck behind Jacobs, which has turned into Strachan stuck behind ROB.

Our "stacked" midfield which sees younger mids left at half forward or on the wing.

Conversely we are currently very happy to try new players on the wing, but that is due to Seedsman's career ending injury and Mad Dog Mackay retiring.

I don't think it's just about dropping senior players either, but rather we are very rigid with their roles. I mean if Keays and Laird spent 20% of their TOG at half forward to accommodate others getting some CBA's, would we be worse off? Would it hurt their games? If anything, those two scoring more goals would increase their chances of making the AA team, as they will still pick up their 28+ touches a game.
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Spot on

Something as simple as a revamp to how we treat spots 21 and 22 in our line up would have major implications on our list and player development

We are having to play umpteen kids now because we haven't invested enough in the years previous
 
Season 2023

Mission: Competitive

Get the feeling that those above Nicks are losing patience with the rebuild. They expected more progress. Also are seeing the crowds and interest declining.

Ricciuto's comments about Brown, the flood of member surveys recently, free tickets to Melbourne game...

From the club's perspective, if they are hellbent on returning to finals in 2023 what does that mean to our list management, in particular recruiting? Will we seek out more Ben Keays like mature-age career turnarounds?

Is our first rounder (2022 or 2023) on the table?

Is there an expensive FA in our sights?
 
Bob Neil said:
I'm as interested in whether an individual player is going to be good or not as the next supporter but what I'm even more interested in (and highly dubious of AFC's performance on) is whether our list management team are following a clear and disciplined approach to our list build that should facilitate smart decisions (play or not play, delist or not delist) on all of our squad and in particular our developing players.

I think something like this flow chart should be the framework that our list management & coaching team (acting in unison) is always managing against and they should have total clarity about exactly where each of our players stands in this process at any point in time with the ultimate objective being to get each player through this process as quickly as possible into one of the two ultimate buckets - keeper or delist.

The problem I see is that we have bottlenecks throughout the process as we seem incapable of making good and consistent judgements on which players to invest games into and which players to delist (Davis six years on the list anyone??).

This process doesn't address the problem of making poor draft choices in the first place so it is 'garbage in, garbage out' but I think a major chunk of our problems are how we allocate the scarce commodity of AFL games across our list which is the major determinant of our development.

View attachment 1441211
Click to expand...

This is a great post

Our year-end list management decisions have seemed out of step with our weekly selection calls for a long time.

Why do we invest games in dead rubber matches into players we delist at the end of the season?

Why isn't there a big picture view where short term decisions feed into long term goals?

It seems like picking our Best 22 each week underpins our entire philosophy. Richard Douglas is training hard and doing everything asked... is producing better football than Rookie X...

We cannot bring ourselves to leave Douglas out right up until the final round of the non-finals season, even though we know we're not offering Douglas a contract next season.

What's best for Rookie X who we drafted early, have put on contract for multiple seasons... is not a consideration.
 

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Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
Season 2023

Mission: Competitive

Get the feeling that those above Nicks are losing patience with the rebuild. They expected more progress. Also are seeing the crowds and interest declining.

Ricciuto's comments about Brown, the flood of member surveys recently, free tickets to Melbourne game...

From the club's perspective, if they are hellbent on returning to finals in 2023 what does that mean to our list management, in particular recruiting? Will we seek out more Ben Keays like mature-age career turnarounds?

Is our first rounder (2022 or 2023) on the table?

Is there an expensive FA in our sights?
Click to expand...
Not sure but flags aren't won by half arseing a rebuild, and not stockpiling sufficient elite talent to sustain you.

We haven't nailed the 2018-2019 drafts so essentially we have only really had two years of draft picks.
Not enough.
Trading picks for JHF does the job too.
 
In hindsight would you have traded all of our first round picks between 2016 and 2019 (inclusive) for Jason Horne-Francis?

I'm talking handing over five first rounders which we spent on Gallucci, Fogarty, Jones, McHenry and McAsey

In this scenario assume the people in charge of our drafting are the same. If you choose to keep the 5 first rounders, they can draft different players, but their ability to identify who to draft is the same
 
Scorpus said:
In hindsight would you have traded all of our first round picks between 2016 and 2019 (inclusive) for Jason Horne-Francis?

I'm talking handing over five first rounders which we spent on Gallucci, Fogarty, Jones, McHenry and McAsey

In this scenario assume the people in charge of our drafting are the same
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I wouldn't hand over Fogarty so easily.
Need someone to kick it to.

Without him our forward stocks aren't all that flags to be honest.
 
Scorpus said:
In hindsight would you have traded all of our first round picks between 2016 and 2019 (inclusive) for Jason Horne-Francis?

I'm talking handing over five first rounders which we spent on Gallucci, Fogarty, Jones, McHenry and McAsey

In this scenario assume the people in charge of our drafting are the same. If you choose to keep the 5 first rounders, they can draft different players, but their ability to identify who to draft is the same
Click to expand...
Without the benefit of hindsight, **** no
 
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