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Discussion 2023 General AFL Discussion - Part II

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pebblesofsand said:
Gil is absolutely correct.

The whole comp is compromised (drafting, academies, income distribution, salary caps, fixtures even where the finals are played) and everyone including Scott and Lyon know it.

Thought Lyon was stupid making those comments and Gil actually went easy on him - could have easily pointed out how much extra financial assistance the Saints have got over the past 10 years.
Click to expand...

disagree completely...

north is on the same financial assistance as us... how is it north melbourne have been given the approval by the AFL to cut the list so god damn hard when we had the AFL tell us to be competitive ASAP

north get reward with on field assistance despite having much more first round draft pick players on their list than us

whilst we had to do it the hard way through expansion concessions with no help what so ever
 
pebblesofsand said:
Gil is absolutely correct.

The whole comp is compromised (drafting, academies, income distribution, salary caps, fixtures even where the finals are played) and everyone including Scott and Lyon know it.

Thought Lyon was stupid making those comments and Gil actually went easy on him - could have easily pointed out how much extra financial assistance the Saints have got over the past 10 years.
Click to expand...
What extra financial assistance? Made us take a crap deal at Docklands for 20 years where we made losses even if the crowd was 29,000
They give us Sunday afternoon twilight games v GC every year, hardly a decent prime time game, bur Essendon, a team who hasn't won a final in more than 20 years gets ANZAC Day and Dreamtime and multiple Friday nights.
Spare me the 'extra money' bs. They rig our draw like they rig the draft.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

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So..

Financial assistance only is akin to club is competent and simply mismanaged and need a course correction. Money assists with getting in, altering, and otherwise wheeling and dealing to differentiate assets.

Financial + manipulated asset management is akin to "I don't trust you to do anything properly, here's a knife, try not to stab yourself". Fixes nothing as same people who need assistance consistently or consistently have issue with X, no matter how many times they might use that knife to cut a potato, they'll still loose several fingers regardless in that chopping.

So is right to critique the AFL handling of the North compo, as they are doing nothing to actually assist North and just "here's assets, go ham" as they often do to try and fix situations. Givens Norths reliance upon the AFL nothing will change long term with this sort of compo.

Joffaboy said:
What extra financial assistance? Made us take a crap deal at Docklands for 20 years where we made losses even if the crowd was 29,000
They give us Sunday afternoon twilight games v GC every year, hardly a decent prime time game, bur Essendon, a team who hasn't won a final in more than 20 years gets ANZAC Day and Dreamtime and multiple Friday nights.
Spare me the 'extra money' bs. They rig our draw like they rig the draft.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...

Just on Essendon, they were big proponents in getting the Dreamtime game relevant, so I'm happy for them to have that, rotating feature it should become though. ANZAC is straight crock, we remain only club in VFL/AFL history that had to change jumper because of such things, and all clubs impacted by it, should not be constrained to only two for all time.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Gil is absolutely correct.

The whole comp is compromised (drafting, academies, income distribution, salary caps, fixtures even where the finals are played) and everyone including Scott and Lyon know it.

Thought Lyon was stupid making those comments and Gil actually went easy on him - could have easily pointed out how much extra financial assistance the Saints have got over the past 10 years.
Click to expand...
Yes, he is. So fix it.

The AFL should work to "uncompromise" it.

For starters:
*Stop the academy rorting.
Stop the F/S. No place for romance in a so-called professional competition.*
*Share the big games around

** Edit: Or make them match a bid if anyone else bids on them, so its not just a free hit

Time to stop the Mickey Mouse stuff and stop paying lip service to equalisation.
 
Last edited:
Diehard Saint said:
Yes, he is. So fix it.

The AFL should work to "uncompromise" it.

For starters:
*Stop the academy rorting.
*Stop the F/S. No place for romance in a so-called professional competition.
*Share the big games around

Time to stop the Mickey Mouse stuff and stop paying lip service to equalisation.
Click to expand...

They need to raise the bar on FS, there is a place for it but the cap is just too low, academies were scuffed from the start.
 
StFly said:
They need to raise the bar on FS, there is a place for it but the cap is just too low, academies were scuffed from the start.
Click to expand...
They have to match the bid if other clubs bid on them. That's all.
The fact that they get the opportunity to do so is what gives them just a little extra benefit.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Gil is absolutely correct.

The whole comp is compromised (drafting, academies, income distribution, salary caps, fixtures even where the finals are played) and everyone including Scott and Lyon know it.

Thought Lyon was stupid making those comments and Gil actually went easy on him - could have easily pointed out how much extra financial assistance the Saints have got over the past 10 years.
Click to expand...
Laura Kane head of North Melbourne Football Operations 2017-2021

the same person who butchered their list is the same person that's just gifted them more concessions than any other club bar CG.
ABSOLUTELY NO CONFLICT HERE.........

One could also point out how we and others have been strangled by the AFL re: docklands and the shithouse fixturing the AFL has hobbled the competition with.

to turn around and reward North for doing absolutely zero but drafting players to improve is utter nonsense when we along with others have had to graft and churn to deal with issues of the AFL's making.
 
Diehard Saint said:
They have to match the bid if other clubs bid on them. That's all.
The fact that they get the opportunity to do so is what gives them just a little extra benefit.
Click to expand...

Now that I've more time instead of pissfarting around at work, there's already a bidding process on father sons that take place internally anyway. The core issue for mine is that the games allotment to trigger it is just too low so you can have the one player around in todays game who might have a father son viable for 3-4 clubs.

Translate that across dynastic levels and you'll end up with several clubs with several father sons and it'll be nothing but in the end if it stands as the amount today and players that have played in excess of 300 games. There still need to be some romance with clubs much like the Danihers were / are with Essendon for example or Abletts with Geelong, just the tolerance for it needs to be shifted to be maintained otherwise it ends up as nothing but a rort. Norm for successful entity = benefit, pay F to disrespect everyone else attached.

On academy, it really needs to be a true academy set up where clubs do the work with their area and they then reap the benefits of good fortune from that area first before it is opened. As they did the work, they put the time in, they did all the things required to get that player to that level, so have first dibs if desired. Since the AFL did not go that route and instead first went one way then went another with it, they made it a pissing contest with a splashback where you've a percentage chance to break records on the wall, but a similar percentage chance to slip and end up covered in your own urine. As all that previous work was wasted since well they didn't last to X, so too bad so sad, get gud kid.

Academy instances just leave a bitter taste at present in the AFL modelling for it. Period.
 
Mat Mann said:
Laura Kane head of North Melbourne Football Operations 2017-2021

the same person who butchered their list is the same person that's just gifted them more concessions than any other club bar CG.
ABSOLUTELY NO CONFLICT HERE.........

One could also point out how we and others have been strangled by the AFL re: docklands and the shithouse fixturing the AFL has hobbled the competition with.

to turn around and reward North for doing absolutely zero but drafting players to improve is utter nonsense when we along with others have had to graft and churn to deal with issues of the AFL's making.
Click to expand...

so the AFL is compromised then and Scott and Lyon were right
 
StCicatriz said:
disagree completely...

north is on the same financial assistance as us... how is it north melbourne have been given the approval by the AFL to cut the list so god damn hard when we had the AFL tell us to be competitive ASAP

north get reward with on field assistance despite having much more first round draft pick players on their list than us

whilst we had to do it the hard way through expansion concessions with no help what so ever
Click to expand...

Most teams who tank start a season, realize its futile , then put good players in for surgery, and generally don't coach to win.
Delisting all the senior players is pre-planned tanking.
North have purposely planned to bottom out.
 
StFly said:
They need to raise the bar on FS, there is a place for it but the cap is just too low, academies were scuffed from the start.
Click to expand...

The big trouble with FS is the double dipping.
They think the son is going to go first round, so trade the first round draft pick for a future first round. BIngo. 2 first round picks for the price of one.

Pretty simple to fix it.
If the F/S is bid on first round, you need to match with a current or future first round.
If they don't have one, well stiff shit, you've known about this kid for 18 years.
No number of 4th round picks adds up to a first round pick. That's also a big issue with academy players. You could halve the points value of later picks.
 

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SaintsSeptember said:
The big trouble with FS is the double dipping.
They think the son is going to go first round, so trade the first round draft pick for a future first round. BIngo. 2 first round picks for the price of one.

Pretty simple to fix it.
If the F/S is bid on first round, you need to match with a current or future first round.
If they don't have one, well stiff s**t, you've known about this kid for 18 years.
No number of 4th round picks adds up to a first round pick. That's also a big issue with academy players. You could halve the points value of later picks.
Click to expand...

Anything really would be twisted to game the system, it's what clubs do, hence why the base needs to increase to dissuade the original action of wanting that father son for "cheap" and gaming the system that comes later.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
The big trouble with FS is the double dipping.
They think the son is going to go first round, so trade the first round draft pick for a future first round. BIngo. 2 first round picks for the price of one.

Pretty simple to fix it.
If the F/S is bid on first round, you need to match with a current or future first round.
If they don't have one, well stiff s**t, you've known about this kid for 18 years.
No number of 4th round picks adds up to a first round pick. That's also a big issue with academy players. You could halve the points value of later picks.
Click to expand...
isn't that exactly the same with GC selling pick 4
3 top 10 Academy selections and they want to sell pick 4 so they don't "waste" it

I'm agreeing with you, but it's not just F/S

I love the F/S rule and I see why some have issues with it, but GC getting 3 top 10 picks as academy players is utter garbage.
esp the year after they sold pick 7 to get rid of a player - it's insane
they complain( northern clubs) that they lose players because all are from VIC/WA/SA but they never have players from NSW/QLD/NT in the open draft anymore, and that never allows them to lure homegrown talent HOME! meanwhile, they keep dipping into the open pool as well.

I'd be happy to see all academy/NGA ties severed, all into the draft, and then the northern clubs can lure them back, at least that might ensure a truer level of payment, and even out the draft.

the "draft" is so tainted and imbalanced, a far cry from what the equalization measure it was meant to be, now along comes pick buying/salary dumping, the cap, which was already too narrow, now becomes another tool for the bigger clubs to circumvent the second equalization measure.
 
Eyes painted on if you think Gil is correct lmao

Absolute garbage excuse from him last night
 
Mat Mann said:
isn't that exactly the same with GC selling pick 4
3 top 10 Academy selections and they want to sell pick 4 so they don't "waste" it

I'm agreeing with you, but it's not just F/S

I love the F/S rule and I see why some have issues with it, but GC getting 3 top 10 picks as academy players is utter garbage.
esp the year after they sold pick 7 to get rid of a player - it's insane
they complain( northern clubs) that they lose players because all are from VIC/WA/SA but they never have players from NSW/QLD/NT in the open draft anymore, and that never allows them to lure homegrown talent HOME! meanwhile, they keep dipping into the open pool as well.

I'd be happy to see all academy/NGA ties severed, all into the draft, and then the northern clubs can lure them back, at least that might ensure a truer level of payment, and even out the draft.

the "draft" is so tainted and imbalanced, a far cry from what the equalization measure it was meant to be, now along comes pick buying/salary dumping, the cap, which was already too narrow, now becomes another tool for the bigger clubs to circumvent the second equalization measure.
Click to expand...

They have phased out most of the Academy players. Except for those of the "Golden Child". Which is why it was kind of outrageous for North to ask for a free hit on Sanders.

The whole plan of the AFL seems to be to deliver a premiership to the Suns. The premiership with the worlds biggest Asterisk.
Hell. Lets just choose a year, and declare the Suns the winners so we can stop cheating for them.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Gil is absolutely correct.

The whole comp is compromised (drafting, academies, income distribution, salary caps, fixtures even where the finals are played) and everyone including Scott and Lyon know it.

Thought Lyon was stupid making those comments and Gil actually went easy on him - could have easily pointed out how much extra financial assistance the Saints have got over the past 10 years.
Click to expand...
And that extra financial assistance would not have been required if us and the Roos weren't being screwed for over a decade on a stadium deal that paid down docklands for the entire AFL !!!! Losing money on crowds under 30k while the Dopers had a grandfather deal that stipulated that NO-ONE ELSE was allowed a superior deal than Essendon! In fact, Essendon received the profits any Saints merch sold from the merch store inside the ground!!
 

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Oh for an uncompromised competition (except for this bit of course).

"Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn and West Coast each received more than $50 million less than St Kilda in AFL funding over the past decade."
 
bergholt said:
Doesn’t work. Play Saints vs North on Anzac Day and only 30k will show up.
Click to expand...
Well then they mustn’t spruik equalisation.
Just admit it’s all about the $$$
 
Oh wow, 5-6 million per season surely makes up for all the primetime MCG fixtures that Collingwood play, or the dozen games a year at a boutique stadium down the road + MCG blockbuster fixtures v other big Vic clubs that Geelong play, or West Coast - the richest club in the league by a country mile lmao

Gil was right! 😂😂
 
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