List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Brackets]

Now our CEO has stated we have cap issues and have to stick to the draft.

Expected you were exaggerating his comments but after listening you might be understating it. That's a worry.

 

[Captain Judd]

Between Martin McGovern and Williams that’s probably close to 2.4mil a year in cap space. How have they benefited our team?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

According to all reports Martin is on stuff all this year and next.

Most on here say Govs deal was heavily front loaded

Surely Plow isn’t in much

Same goes for Dow

Williams contract is really bad

Dow, why would he be on anything significant? A bad sign if he is.

Fish, why would he be on big $$$$$

More scrutiny needs to come on to why we have such a tight cap

Believe talk was Dow was on something like 450-500k or something around that. Wouldn't be surprised if theres another couple like that in there too. Imo if you got rid of Williams, Gov, Martin and someone like TDK that would be all the clearing we'd need to really go about reshaping our list with quality mature agers.

Doing so is another thing entirely but it does limit what we're able to do if we don't have the room to move cap wise.

 

[Blue1980]

Nothing wrong with the players just thought we slightly over paid picks wise with each but that comment is probably secondary to my main point.

Geelong and Richmond after being at the top for years were able to go out and recruit players on $900,000 per year.

We are maxed out after a year finishing 9th and it’s not buy recruiting big names as Saad, Cerra and Heweets contracts are all reasonable.

Cats also gave up 3 first rounders for Cameron, they felt like just get who you want.

And Saad, Cerra and Hewett all shrewd picks. Acres cost nothing much, and is playing accordingly.

 

[DangerousD]

Believe talk was Dow was on something like 450-500k or something around that. Wouldn't be surprised if theres another couple like that in there too. Imo if you got rid of Williams, Gov, Martin and someone like TDK that would be all the clearing we'd need to really go about reshaping our list with quality mature agers.

Doing so is another thing entirely but it does limit what we're able to do if we don't have the room to move cap wise.

If Dow is on that then Austin really dropped the ball.
As many have said Martin is supposedly on minimum wage and we aren’t able to get rid of Williams $$$ even if traded.

It will be interesting what happens at the end of the year but it’s still a worry if we are overpaying lots of players overs.

 

[DangerousD]

Cats also gave up 3 first rounders for Cameron, they felt like just get who you want.

And Saad, Cerra and Hewett all shrewd picks. Acres cost nothing much, and is playing accordingly.

Again, I don’t have a problem with any of the players picked, I have a problem with our club having salary cap issues whilst having not played finals in 10 years

 

[Blue1980]

Again, I don’t have a problem with any of the players picked, I have a problem with our club having salary cap issues whilst having not played finals in 10 years

You can blame it on getting:

McGovern
Williams
Martin

And inexplicably offering longer term deals for guys like Dow(at least his ends this year) and even LOB is contracted for 2024. Fisher for 2025. Wtf are we offering these longer deals for guys who no one else would want?

 

[Beyond Blue]

Time for the club to make a stand at the end of this year. I had hoped we were on the right trajectory but unfortunately I now don't think we are.

Definitely time to make a splash and trade 1 or 2 highly paid players and try and cash in on 3 or 4 kids from this draft class and add to our list with players that really have a passion, who bring speed to our slow list and better disposal efficiency.

The more I think about his the more I think it could be the way to go a bit like when Richmond turfed Deledio before they won their flags.

If it happens it probably has to be Cripps as he’s older and midfielders are easier to find than key position players, it would be a massive call and I doubt we’d do it.

I would be totally against trading McKay or Weitering - those sort of players are too few and far between - it would set us back at least 5 years.

The more realistic scenario is we let TDK go for a (late) first rounder so we have two firsts in a good draft, possibly 3 if we also trade our 2024 first.

With 3 picks we have options to use all three, or package up 2 of the picks to get a higher first round pick for the Wizard or put all 3 together to get Harley.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

If we didn't actually front load the Martin and McGovern contracts as we thought, it's easy to see why we are in trouble. If we did and they are not on much, it's scary that we could move them on and still have a bursting cap.

For all the talk of the awful Williams contract and his terrible injury history, he would be one player that could improve us hugely this season.

 

[BlueTongue]

If we didn't actually front load the Martin and McGovern contracts as we thought, it's easy to see why we are in trouble. If we did and they are not on much, it's scary that we could move them on and still have a bursting cap.

For all the talk of the awful Williams contract and his terrible injury history, he would be one player that could improve us hugely this season.

100%. The more we go on with poor disposal and bombing them on our forwards heads, the more I think he should be played as a mid/forward. His low-drilled disposal and ability to evade tackles and hit targets is what we desperately need with our delivery into the forward line.

 

[RiCHii]

You can blame it on getting:

McGovern
Williams
Martin

And inexplicably offering longer term deals for guys like Dow(at least his ends this year) and even LOB is contracted for 2024. Fisher for 2025. Wtf are we offering these longer deals for guys who no one else would want?

How do we know no club would be interested in Dow or Fisher?

We use players in the wrong positions or just don't play them at all. In his first year Dow looked good, has since struggled to get a game despite massive games in the VFL.

Perhaps other teams see we are misusing, or not using, players properly and will capitalize.

For years we played Setterfield in the wrong position and, at least earlier in the year (stopped watching or following ESS games) he looked good once played in his original position.

We will ruin Cerra too. On Saturday I rekon I saw the bloke play 5 different positions on the ground. All of which aren't his desired positions. At the end of his career, we will look back and say "He never made it to be an A grader" through no fault of his own we just have a habit of playing guys out of position and killing their careers.

 

[branedotorg]

If we didn't actually front load the Martin and McGovern contracts as we thought, it's easy to see why we are in trouble. If we did and they are not on much, it's scary that we could move them on and still have a bursting cap.

For all the talk of the awful Williams contract and his terrible injury history, he would be one player that could improve us hugely this season.

we certainly rebalanced martin's contract after he was smashed in his big payout year by covid cuts.

suspect Martin, mcgovern, williams and dow would be about 15%+ of our salary cap yet two of our best players vs WB, Owies and Cottrell would be on rookie contracts taking up say 2-3% between them.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

How do we know no club would be interested in Dow or Fisher?

We use players in the wrong positions or just don't play them at all. In his first year Dow looked good, has since struggled to get a game despite massive games in the VFL.

Perhaps other teams see we are misusing, or not using, players properly and will capitalize.

For years we played Setterfield in the wrong position and, at least earlier in the year (stopped watching or following ESS games) he looked good once played in his original position.

We will ruin Cerra too. On Saturday I rekon I saw the bloke play 5 different positions on the ground. All of which aren't his desired positions. At the end of his career, we will look back and say "He never made it to be an A grader" through no fault of his own we just have a habit of playing guys out of position and killing their careers.

It’s literally impossible to play all our midfielders in the right position.
Maybe the smart move would have been to let Kennedy go as a FA last season and taken what might have been fairly handy compo but we are now at the stage where we have to try and play guys in different roles or play in the twos in their preferred position.

 

[RiCHii]

It’s literally impossible to play all our midfielders in the right position.
Maybe the smart move would have been to let Kennedy go as a FA last season and taken what might have been fairly handy compo but we are now at the stage where we have to try and play guys in different roles or play in the twos in their preferred position.

It may be difficult to play all our midfielders in the right position, but I wouldn't say impossible.

• Cerra has been one of our inform midfielders this year and we're playing him at half back.
• Kennedy who was also a shining light last year having stints at half back, when we all know he has an issue with pace.
• Setterfield when he was at the club was played and experimented with in every position except the one that saw him drafted such a high pick.
• We drafted Mick Gibbons, who won awards for his performance in the midfield at VFL level, and we played him as a small forward and then delisted him.
• Going further back, we drafted Luke Livingstone as an upcoming forward, we put him down back and delisted him a few years later saying he wasn't up to it ...

My point is we have a history of killing blokes' careers but playing them in the wrong positions. We manage to get E. Curnow in there so it can't be that difficult to play blokes in their actual positions.

Also, suggesting letting Kennedy go via FA last season is unbelievable. The bloke came off his best season so far and your suggesting we let him walk? Realistically we would have got bugger all out of him because I couldn't see a club ponying up and paying him big big bucks. Would have been lucky to get a 2nd round pick with the money he would have been offered.

 

[skadoosh]

Not sure where we go from here…

We’ve maxed our cap on a bottom 8 performing list…

The focus should be fixing up whatever is going on in our coaching team.

 

[Accidental genius]

The focus should be fixing up whatever is going on in our coaching team.

We need a new HOF first and foremost otherwise we’ll again get the wrong types of coaches around Vossy.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It may be difficult to play all our midfielders in the right position, but I wouldn't say impossible.

• Cerra has been one of our inform midfielders this year and we're playing him at half back.
• Kennedy who was also a shining light last year having stints at half back, when we all know he has an issue with pace.
• Setterfield when he was at the club was played and experimented with in every position except the one that saw him drafted such a high pick.
• We drafted Mick Gibbons, who won awards for his performance in the midfield at VFL level, and we played him as a small forward and then delisted him.
• Going further back, we drafted Luke Livingstone as an upcoming forward, we put him down back and delisted him a few years later saying he wasn't up to it ...

My point is we have a history of killing blokes' careers but playing them in the wrong positions. We manage to get E. Curnow in there so it can't be that difficult to play blokes in their actual positions.

Also, suggesting letting Kennedy go via FA last season is unbelievable. The bloke came off his best season so far and your suggesting we let him walk? Realistically we would have got bugger all out of him because I couldn't see a club ponying up and paying him big big bucks. Would have been lucky to get a 2nd round pick with the money he would have been offered.

How do you fit Dow, Walsh, Setterfield, Cripps, Cerra, Kennedy and Hewett in the one midfield? Move any of them out and you are playing someone out of position.

Yeh we may have got a second round pick and had ~$400k extra to chase a forward mid with extra speed that we lack. I probably wouldn’t have done it but with the way we are looking right now I think it would’ve been a smart move.

 

[Stamos]

It’s literally impossible to play all our midfielders in the right position.
Maybe the smart move would have been to let Kennedy go as a FA last season and taken what might have been fairly handy compo but we are now at the stage where we have to try and play guys in different roles or play in the twos in their preferred position.

Kennedy was a Delisted Free Agent, we wouldn't have gotten any compo.
But the midfield is unbalanced.

 

[RiCHii]

How do you fit Dow, Walsh, Setterfield, Cripps, Cerra, Kennedy and Hewett in the one midfield? Move any of them out and you are playing someone out of position.

Yeh we may have got a second round pick and had ~$400k extra to chase a forward mid with extra speed that we lack. I probably wouldn’t have done it but with the way we are looking right now I think it would’ve been a smart move.

What would I have done?

I would have stuck Walsh at half back and use him as a Daicos-type role. His disposal off half back would have provided us better ability to transition.

I would have dropped Hewett earlier in the year when he was offering very little.

I would have rested Cripps more forward. He doesn't have to attend 100% centre bounces. We are riding him into the ground.

These are just some measures I would have taken.... but what would I know, I just watch this team every week allowing them to continuously let me down week in week out.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

It’s literally impossible to play all our midfielders in the right position.
Maybe the smart move would have been to let Kennedy go as a FA last season and taken what might have been fairly handy compo but we are now at the stage where we have to try and play guys in different roles or play in the twos in their preferred position.

Kennedy wasn't a free agent though. He was a former delisted free agent after we desisted, then rookie him. He will forever be allowed to walk out for zero compensation after a contract ends IIRC.

Not sure why he'd be the one to go anyway. He stepped up during the second half of his rookie list year, but we didn't trust it would last so we got Hewett as a FA. Kennedy improved even further last season but Hewett had a fantastic year.

I definitely see these two competing for the same spot, or more accurately, competing against Cripps for 2 spots.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Kennedy was a Delisted Free Agent, we wouldn't have gotten any compo.
But the midfield is unbalanced.

Disagree, I just think a few of them are badly out of form i.e. Cripps and Hewett.

And Walsh is struggling to have the impact he would normally have...understandably.

If those three were playing decent footy - by their own standards - we'd be having a very different discussion!

 

[Stamos]

Disagree, I just think a few of them are badly out of form i.e. Cripps and Hewett.

And Walsh is struggling to have the impact he would normally have...understandably.

If those three were playing decent footy - by their own standards - we'd be having a very different discussion!

Walsh had a pretty solid impact on Saturday night. A goal, 2 assists, 9 Score Involvements (most on the field).

The problem with our balance of Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy (and Ed) is that when they're not having a big impact, they're just slow mids.
Because of an overall lack of pace, we really struggle to cover when one or more is down.

 

[Juddrockz]

Tom Lynch contract is reported at $6M over 7 years.

Cameron is 5 years at $900,000

Now our CEO has stated we have cap issues and have to stick to the draft.

If the Tigers after winning a premiership can go out and get a FA on $900,000 and the cats can go and spend $900,000 on a player after being up the top for years and we are maxed out, then we are doing it wrong.

Saad, Cerra and Hewetts contracts all seem reasonable I don’t think we struggled to bring them in, it’s Charlie, Harry, Cripps, Walsh deals that I wonder if we were too generous or is there some bad contracts in there that we don’t know about?

I think its more the McGovern,Martin and Williams massive contracts and not getting bang for buck due to be injured all the time.

 

[Brackets]

• Setterfield when he was at the club was played and experimented with in every position except the one that saw him drafted such a high pick.

The decision to bring in Hewett rather than play Setterfield on the ball is a rather poor one in retrospect.

Setterfield gives you a bit more flexibility with his height and is younger. Even with Hewett improving upon his output at the Swans, his lack of speed was always going to compound an existing weakness.

What's worse is his acquisition has meant we're seemingly committed to playing him irrespective of form, and we're also not targeting other players that might address our lack of speed.

It was a rather poor list management decision given our existing depth and needs elsewhere.

 

[RAPPA]

Walsh had a pretty solid impact on Saturday night. A goal, 2 assists, 9 Score Involvements (most on the field).

The problem with our balance of Cripps, Hewett, Kennedy (and Ed) is that when they're not having a big impact, they're just slow mids.
Because of an overall lack of pace, we really struggle to cover when one or more is down.

The mids mentioned there also generally lack polish by foot.