Training 2023 Pre-season thread

[AFLQLD]

Tunstill looked good, better than I expected even though there was some poor disposal a couple of times. Dev is solid but not as skilful as others.

Geelong was putting in 3/4 effort for much of the game but the pleasing thing was that ball movement they wanted to do easily, and normally would, came harder. I think they are in an interesting transitional phase. They have the flag that a bunch of them were probably holding out for. Now they are going to be the benchmark and need to prepare for the future in the next season or two before the veterans start to retire.

 

[Thomasno]

For future reference going to BHA, I parked in the massive park and ride at the station over the road - there were workers there waving us in, so it’s encouraged I think. And FREE

 

[Lazza16]

Impressed with Payne.......could have doubled his mark stats if Dad didnt spoil him so often. Worried about Rich.....speed of the game may have passed him by and McKenna needs to improve heaps...... hopefully in the 2s til/if he gets back to his best..

 

[M Malice]

Tunstill looked good, better than I expected even though there was some poor disposal a couple of times. Dev is solid but not as skilful as others.

Geelong was putting in 3/4 effort for much of the game but the pleasing thing was that ball movement they wanted to do easily, and normally would, came harder. I think they are in an interesting transitional phase. They have the flag that a bunch of them were probably holding out for. Now they are going to be the benchmark and need to prepare for the future in the next season or two before the veterans start to retire.

The trouble for Dev Robertson going forward is that we now have better options for his best position ie. inside mid, he is well behind the likes of Neale, Dunkley, Ashcroft and I was so bloody impressed with McCluggage's inside game last night live, I was in awe a few times with his skill in tight, his days as a permanent winger are over for me, perfect balanced mid type, if Clugga could fix up his goal kicking yips(he certainly gets in position to kick plenty) he could be very close to the best mid in the competition IMO.

 

[LongLion]

Yes we very clearly eschewed competing on the (our) back side of contests we were likely to lose, in favour of getting back in defensive cover. This was pretty clearly represented on the 1st quarter scoreboard of 20 inside 50s for only 2 behinds. This comes back to that balance between on-ball pressure and defensive structure which I've mentioned a couple of times here during preseason.

Essentially it indicates a change in mindset and consequent decision making by players as to where to run. It's not a complicated change, which is a double edged sword. It means it should be relatively easy for the playing group to implement (99 points in 2 games is a good reflection of that). BUT on the other hand it means we are likely to get found out at some stage during the season.

For example, if teams realise we are going to press back hard, they will start taking their time more in midfield and then try to go around us, or try to spear through our zone with kick-mark pinpoint passes. I'm hoping this actually happens as early as possible, as it will give us time to respond.

Ultimately, I think we will end up finding the optimum is a balance between the hard defensive press we demonstrated tonight, particularly early, and the need to exert pressure at the contest, which served us well through 2019-mid 2021. The key will be to learn when each "mode" of play is appropriate, which is easier said than done.




Mmmm, to me we seemed to play a LOT of "tempo footy" in the second half. Try to possess the ball, suck time off the clock, kick up the line and at worst get a stoppage when forced to. I would like to think this was deliberate and simply taking the opportunity to work on the strategy we should have put in place against Richmond in Melbourne last year.

I feel like we left a fair few goals out there in playing this way, and it is far easier to build your percentage when your opposition is already demoralised but you still have your foot to the floor. Again, there's that balance to find, and hopefully we can find it better this year than we did in 2022. If you are right and it wasn't a deliberate ploy, then yes I'm concerned.




One of the great benefits of having a sturdy defence is it allows you to take greater risks when you have the ball, because you know that even if you mess up you'll be well supported on turnover. As long as we don't go too far down the Ross Lyon path of "defending for the sake of defending", being stronger defensively should actually make us MORE entertaining, not less. Ala Geelong in 2022.




Yep kicking for goal absolutely needs some work. It was pretty good last year but it has progressively worsened week by week since we couldn't miss at Wilston Grange a few weeks ago.




Amazing how good Andrews and Payne can and will look when there is pressure put on opposition forward thrusts by our midfield. A noticeable and pleasant change.




Thought McKenna was pretty average tonight, sadly. Wilmot definitely ahead of him if they are competing for a particular spot.




Dev HAS to play Round 1.

It's interesting though to read the amount of conflicting opinions here about the same player. Almost as though we were watching different games! I wonder if part of this is dictated by whether we were at the game or watching on TV?

Was at the game and was impressed with Dev's game. Was running very hard.

 

[FeastOrFamine]

Really solid hit-out

Tunstill and Prior surprised me with their endeavour and attack. Some of Tunstill's efforts in particular were first class - just never gave up and kept putting the heat on. Overall though, I was really impressed with the work rate from the entire team. Seeing Daniher running and pressuring exemplifies this.

Can't wait for round one now. Should have no problem pushing over Port with the way they've played over the past few weeks, although you can't read too much into pre-season form

 

[jjami15]

My take away form the two practice matches is that the inclusions of Dunkley and Ashcroft cannot be undersold. The flow on affect for the rest of the team and especially Neale is evident IMO. Last year during games it basically was Neale or bust. Not this year! The starting midfield of Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage (Simon Black like on the inside last night with his hands) and Ashcroft is pretty potent but what excites me the most is that this should benefit the likes of Zorko, Berry, Bailey etc as the next tier of those who can and will go through the middle at times. I would think that Zorko will start on the bench and should be managed with game time and also actual games but as a rotational player supporting the starting midfield will be quite exciting to see. Berry is another who will benefit as he cannot shoulder the load (see what I did there) of playing in the centre and is beneficial on the wing but as last years final against Melbourne can be a 'break glass in case of an emergency'. I know that some stated that Bailey should be left to play as a forward and I can see the advantage of that but for a rotational player through the midfield and a different type only adds to the mix. Just on Ashcroft (again I know it was a pre-season match) but he actually worked into the game and for me his 3rd and 4th quarters were his best. Usually you would see with first year players for them to drop away in those quarters as they get used to the speed and intensity of the game.

It is also exciting to see Hipwood and Andrews bodies beginning to fill out and as with most talls this occurs in their mid 20s. Andrews doesn't seem to be laboring like he was last year. Maybe a secret trip to Germany in the off-season for someone to look at those knees of his. Gunston is just such a smart footballer who also has excellent skills in the open field. First quarter I think he took a mark on the opposition side of the wing, turned hit up Daniher 50/60m away who then kicked it deep into the forward 50 for someone to kick goal. But that first kick is what set it up.


It is only pre-season and I always wait for about 6/8 games into the season to get a feel for where we are at but I like what I see and it is quite evident to the eye IMO.

 

[rwan566]

He's awesome. Maybe we need to be a little careful in not burning him out. The opposition will be onto him as soon as the season starts, he's only 18 and it's a long season , much longer than anything he's faced in the past.

What’s also exciting is some are saying his brother is as good as will and we have acces to him in 2025

 

[martinson]

A bit of talk about the umps. It's funny ,because I didn't care about the outcome of the match I didn't notice them.

Makes me wonder whether I overreact during the real games.

Well I know I do.

 

[On the quiet]

The trouble for Dev Robertson going forward is that we now have better options for his best position ie. inside mid, he is well behind the likes of Neale, Dunkley, Ashcroft and I was so bloody impressed with McCluggage's inside game last night live, I was in awe a few times with his skill in tight, his days as a permanent winger are over for me, perfect balanced mid type, if Clugga could fix up his goal kicking yips(he certainly gets in position to kick plenty) he could be very close to the best mid in the competition IMO.

I have said previously, that we might be expecting a bit much for an 18 year old to play in the guts the whole year (as good as he is, and IMO he is very good), so Dev should get some opportunities, I probably have Dev now ahead of Lyons.

Only two warm up games, but based on the improvement last year and the past two games can see Payne becoming a very solid AFL player, will make some mistakes, and yes no Hawkins last night but does move well for his size and would love to see him take a player on and run over the top of them, that might come with confidence.

Prior as always was busy and could perform a lock down type medium back role, but we have a few capable of that, but he could also play wing. I am not sure McKenna is a lock for round 1. I cannot see where Answerth fits in this year. I have a close watch on Rich for the first few rounds against our main competitors.

I have said a GF appearance is a pass mark this year, based on our roster, fixture and previous finals experience, i have high expectations barring injuries to key personnel, that we are there the last Sat: in September.

 

[Section 5]

Hippy's collision



McCarthy's hard head accidently takes out Kolodjashnij



Neal's first goal as joint captain from right on the 50m mark

 

[Section 5]

Coleman & McCluggage

Kane Cornes' 2023 AFL All-Australian leftfield candidate

Every year, we see players make a leap and put themselves in All-Australian contention.

www.sen.com.au

 

[lionsrules]

got to work this morning not watching the game. Im the only Lions supporter up here on Eagle St.
two hawks, one north, one cats, one magpie, three tigers (ugh), a crow and a saint...... somehow all watched the game last night.... all kept using the terms "well balanced team" "ashcroft a star" Etc. so I cant wait for the season to start.

 

[rye]

hard to know what to take out of that one when geelongs best tall forward and down the ground option was a spud in rohan. thought jack paynes hands were like vices in humid conditions and he seems to have good synergy with andrews. defensive unit good as a whole and thought prior in particular did a lot of work to get back there and help

mckenna much tidier disposal than last week and not bad defensively, i think he should start round 1 and be allowed to build into the season

geelong inside midfield notably missing blicavs, and potentially bowes if thats where they plan to utilise him. i dont think a blicavs shut down role on neale would completely neuter us as it did last year - dunkley and ashcroft are two absolute game changing additions to our mix and we were comfortably better around stoppage and then transitioning from defensive 50. as said above, ashcroft looks to already have the tank to play out 4 quarters and dunkley is the true bull we have been missing.

daniher my biggest positive once again - just moving very well and competing in the air. looks a bit angrier than ive seen him in the past. maybe hes got the fire he had early in his career back.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Hippy's collision

Another player injured getting tunnelled. Should 100% be a reportable offence.

 

[Section 5]

Pre-season Highlights: Brisbane v Geelong

The Lions v Cats clash at Brighton Homes Arena

www.afl.com.au

 

[twhowler]

Midfield mix looks really good with Ashcroft and Dunkley.

Harris looks rejuvinTe

My take away form the two practice matches is that the inclusions of Dunkley and Ashcroft cannot be undersold. The flow on affect for the rest of the team and especially Neale is evident IMO. Last year during games it basically was Neale or bust. Not this year! The starting midfield of Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage (Simon Black like on the inside last night with his hands) and Ashcroft is pretty potent but what excites me the most is that this should benefit the likes of Zorko, Berry, Bailey etc as the next tier of those who can and will go through the middle at times. I would think that Zorko will start on the bench and should be managed with game time and also actual games but as a rotational player supporting the starting midfield will be quite exciting to see. Berry is another who will benefit as he cannot shoulder the load (see what I did there) of playing in the centre and is beneficial on the wing but as last years final against Melbourne can be a 'break glass in case of an emergency'. I know that some stated that Bailey should be left to play as a forward and I can see the advantage of that but for a rotational player through the midfield and a different type only adds to the mix. Just on Ashcroft (again I know it was a pre-season match) but he actually worked into the game and for me his 3rd and 4th quarters were his best. Usually you would see with first year players for them to drop away in those quarters as they get used to the speed and intensity of the game.

It is also exciting to see Hipwood and Andrews bodies beginning to fill out and as with most talls this occurs in their mid 20s. Andrews doesn't seem to be laboring like he was last year. Maybe a secret trip to Germany in the off-season for someone to look at those knees of his. Gunston is just such a smart footballer who also has excellent skills in the open field. First quarter I think he took a mark on the opposition side of the wing, turned hit up Daniher 50/60m away who then kicked it deep into the forward 50 for someone to kick goal. But that first kick is what set it up.


It is only pre-season and I always wait for about 6/8 games into the season to get a feel for where we are at but I like what I see and it is quite evident to the eye IMO.

Absolutely agree with the change in midfield.

Our starting best 4 mids in 2022 we were all pretty confident in - not best in the league but capable enough. But by the end of the year:

Neale - gun still should have won second Brownlow
Lyons - injury meant he was shadow of his former self and dropped
Zorko - age catching up to him, capable of decent but rarely getting 25 possessions
McCluggage - very good and was on the improve


You can't have a midfield with 2 bankable players getting 25 possies plus.

Dunkley and Ashcroft look to instantly be in our best 4 mids:

Neale - no change
Dunkley - looks immediately bankable as a 25+ plus mid and bigger size
Ashcroft - ditto although not as big
McCluggage - looks to have improved again as an inside mid

The added bonus with Ashcroft and Dunkley is they both tackle well.

Certainly don't want to get carried away with a praccy game vs a very undermanned cats, but positives inlcuded:

- Payne looked comfortable. Harris looked completely rejuvenated. Quicker and launching at the ball with that big beautiful fist.

- Gameplan seemed to work really well. Bottled them up in defence with numbers. When we went quickly we always had someone to go to not just a blind space kick. We seemed to go one extra handball when on the counter attack which cleared someone to kick to a player not to the opposition

- I think Rayner looks good down back. He has the speed and the leap perfect for a third tall. Better kick than dizzy and quicker decision-maker.

- Just reiterating loved the games of Dunkley and Ashcroft. Ashcroft is so quick and deft in close. And bloody strong. Dunkley is exactly what we have been crying out for. The cats bullied Neale out of the game last year. Can't see that happening again

I really hope Fagan has an open mind re best 22 and a mindset to not rush players back. This is the most depth we have had since the premiership years. Give Gardiner plenty of time. Do not rush back Zorko, put him in when he is fully fit. I am not against Lyons playing but again would want to be bloody fit. And don't play him because we owe him anyting. Crucial we don't upset our midfield balance. 2 more years on his contract suddenly seems very long!

Rich in a similar position. Let's not have any liabilities down back. So many flankers now and so many are speedy.

 

[Tassie4ever]

A promising start v a side which Scott would never allow to provide a soft contest.

Couple of things- with the best will in the world, Rayner looks like a fish out of water at HB. Not sure whether moving him there is a sign of desperation as to what to do with what should be a prize asset but in reality has only partly delivered at best. Or just what?

Dunkley adds to Neale's presence and is as tough as. McCluggage operates at a different level. Too good.

The venue- wow!!

 

[Grasshopper17]

Coleman & McCluggage

Kane Cornes' 2023 AFL All-Australian leftfield candidate

Every year, we see players make a leap and put themselves in All-Australian contention.

www.sen.com.au

Amazing that Coleman is still considered "left field". Would absolutely not be if he played for a Victorian club.



One other thing... Gosh we dropped a lot of marks last night. So did Geelong I know, but I don't care about them so much. The vast majority of our games are scheduled at night, but we played last night as though we haven't touched a damp/humid/sweaty ball in 6 months. And... That's probably because we haven't.

We. Should. Be. Training. At. Night.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Amazing that Coleman is still considered "left field". Would absolutely not be if he played for a Victorian club.



One other thing... Gosh we dropped a lot of marks last night. So did Geelong I know, but I don't care about them so much. The vast majority of our games are scheduled at night, but we played last night as though we haven't touched a damp/humid/sweaty ball in 6 months. And... That's probably because we haven't.

We. Should. Be. Training. At. Night.

Yeah he's not a left field choice for anyone who's watched us play more than once or twice

 

[martinson]

I get it with Coleman but he's barely played a handful of games in his now preferred position and let's see him put a body of work together for a whole season before we start talking about AA's.

Not there yet.

 

[pOleK]

Lot of positive signs last night but there was still one glaring thing that I couldn't help but notice last night. Yes, our scoring per i50% is elite, but we need to be more clinical and take advantage of our opportunities. It's happened in the past and it happened a lot last night where we tried to be too cute, tried to over handball it, and no one was willing to take responsibility and pull the trigger at a shot at goal. Just tiny things where we take our game from just being good, to a great disciplined side.

Looking very forward to this season though

 

[Viceregal]

A bit of talk about the umps. It's funny ,because I didn't care about the outcome of the match I didn't notice them.

Makes me wonder whether I overreact during the real games.

Well I know I do.

I know I always see the evil done to us but almost never that done to the other side and am stunned at how often both sides feel like the other side brought their own umpires.

I know it wasn't just me when the game day/review threads start getting more posters from other teams than ours and all of them refer to us being robbed/crucified etc (or when our posters who normally defend the umpires start commenting ... eg if western royboy started complaining about the umpiring being biased/criminal etc I would pay attention!)

 

[SRH17]

Loved watching Will stand up for himself in the last quarter by putting (insert name here) on his backside and teammates running in to support him. We have ourselves an absolute beauty!

 

[SRH17]

Amazing that Coleman is still considered "left field". Would absolutely not be if he played for a Victorian club.



One other thing... Gosh we dropped a lot of marks last night. So did Geelong I know, but I don't care about them so much. The vast majority of our games are scheduled at night, but we played last night as though we haven't touched a damp/humid/sweaty ball in 6 months. And... That's probably because we haven't.

We. Should. Be. Training. At. Night.

We went and watched from the boundary in the last quarter. Boundary umpire was lathered in sweat.