List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Coops93]

We all have sub-conscious bias no matter how much we claim to be looking at the facts of the situation. Dow seems to polarise, and people are in their corners with it one way or the other, the same with any other player.

His potential strengths do fit a need. However, he's far enough into his career now that his weaknesses are his weaknesses and "development" won't fix it. No matter how much we like the person, the player is flawed, and his flaws are already a weakness for our team.

He's a combination of having the strengths we need, while also having the weaknesses that exacerbate our already known weaknesses. It's easy to see why this odd combination would cause such debate amongst fans because our own biases will make us lean one way or the other on someone who is both the solution and the problem.

 

[M_I_G]

It's a difficult one

While I would prefer more round the ground involvement and being a threat forward, we do have options in that area

The balance would be, do we get in a player for a couple of years before O'Keffee I'd ready, or work with what we have

Facts are, only 1 elite ruckman has won a flag in the last 2 decades

How do you define elite?

I can think of two without much effort…

Max Gawn and Dean Cox

Must be a tough definition of elite (criteria must be AA etc etc)
I’d happily take a Nankervis clone if one existed

 

[Magruder]

Must be a tough definition of elite (criteria must be AA etc etc)
I’d happily take a Nankervis clone if one existed

i even think of Clark Keating as elite.

elite at the right time, in the right way for his team.

 

[DangerousD]

They are probably the 2

Personally, not enamoured with ruckmen like Pitto, while he is very good at a stoppage, he offers little around the ground or forward

In time I think O'Keffee will be his replacement

So the list management discussion would be, do we bring in a mature short term option that has more string to his bow, while O'Keeffe develops

How far off is he? How would he go if he was played in round 1 next year?

 

[DangerousD]

Doesn’t pass THE Carlton metric, no chance


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

What’s the metric?

 

[AndyLucimitis]

i even think of Clark Keating as elite.

elite at the right time, in the right way for his team.

Clark "The Lawnmower" Keating - only brought out in September.

 

[DangerousD]

i even think of Clark Keating as elite.

elite at the right time, in the right way for his team.

The big O is a tipping player, thought he killed both our rucks, where was he recruited from?

Montrose in the EFNL

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Mods can we take all Dow talk out of this and any other thread and stick in a Doe thread?

It’s driving me and many others nuts now.

Or

Start bans on anyone who posts about him.

I really can’t stand it any more. I can’t block Dow as a chat like I can posters.

70%-80% of the Dow debate would evaporate if 1 poster resisted the urge to respond. We'd still have Harry popping in now and again, but it wouldn't turn into a call and response song.
If Paddy runs amok next year in other colours, expect the conversation to continue.

 

[thylacine60]

70%-80% of the Dow debate would evaporate if 1 poster resisted the urge to respond.
If Paddy runs amok next year in other colours, expect the conversation to continue.

Rubbish. You take away posters that respond to what they believe is a tide of incorrect, pointless or ignorant posts and all you have is an unimpeded, even greater pile-on. Long live the resistance!

 

[cookie monster]

It's a difficult one

While I would prefer more round the ground involvement and being a threat forward, we do have options in that area

The balance would be, do we get in a player for a couple of years before O'Keffee I'd ready, or work with what we have

Facts are, only 1 elite ruckman has won a flag in the last 2 decades

Doesn't need to be "elite"
I'll settle for "competent"
We are effectively playing a man down with pitto away from CBs

 

[cookie monster]

TDK is our number one ruck going forward, we need to find a back up ruck that play forward, Pittonet does not have these capabilities.

We have Okeefe & Lemney who are a few years away, a workhorse ruck is very highly unlikely to be a focus for our list management team.

I haven't watched enough VFL this year, but is OKeefe "bankable" as a prospect?

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Rubbish. You take away posters that respond to what they believe is a tide of incorrect, pointless or ignorant posts and all you have is an unimpeded, even greater pile-on. Long live the resistance!

I'm not the one complaining about the lengthy debate.
Viva, let it continue then.

 

[Monty1978]

I only start to chime in again when I see falsehood regarding Dow, it's cult like how elite a fringe player has become


Nothing to do with like or dislike


I respond with how I see a player, strengths and weaknesses rather than just purely one sidedness

I believe your one of the better posters and like reading your comments but you add to the Dow talk … I bet if you didn’t respond as much there wouldnt be as much and my point was you can’t say on one hand it’s tiresome or whatever you said but your in the thick of every dow conversation…

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

After watching Coleman, i just want us to get a few players with elite skills.
We are seriously lacking in this area.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

No, we beat Sydney, Collingwood, Melbourne, GWS etc in the h/a season. Better sides, well maybe Brisbane. We beat Melbourne without them kicking horrendously for goal and with Brayshaw in the side dominating. Melbourne were weaker in finals and should have won by 4 goals give or take. We got lucky.

Charlie Curnow not kicking goals is on the whole team. We could get it to him during our good run in the h/a season because we got our ball movement right. We couldn't. That fact a player that good in that much form could not kick goals just goes to prove our ball movement was once again broken. By the coach.

Those tractors were not playing in the second half of the season. That's why we started winning! Cerra could run, came back unable to run games out let alone play at a high level. We stopped playing Kennedy and Hewett in the same team. We selected a quick, two way running half back line. That was literally the major changes that turned our season around.

Not sustaining pressure because the selected a side that wasn't as good as it. We should have lost at the MCG the week prior but we had an insane amount of luck, them missing very gettable goals had nothing to do with us.

Not the same team structure. Clear as day.

Dow has agility and pace that probably only Walsh can match or Cerra when he is fit. Again the token quick quy in the middle and the token quick guy in defence idea failed. That isn't what we were doing when we were winning.

Fisher in his whole time playing senior football off half back did not leak goals and did not struggle with defensive skills. So where has this come from?

Top 6 yeah but not necessarily top 1 or 2 like we appear to be obsessed with. All flag winning sides are elite with their run from behind the ball and closing speed or pressure around the ball. We went away from that. Don't have to be elite, just good.

Any close win where the opposition kick 9.17 isn't lucky, it's extremely lucky.

I would have been happy to leak a few more goals if it meant we kicked more. We couldn't score for 3 quarters. Even with a good forward line.

Our run started with guys like Cerra and Cincotta being able to run. They couldn't in the end, something needed doing about that. Fisher and Dow were form players offering what we barely had and were dropped. Form players winning games against really strong sides. You can't ignore that. Dropped and having unfit out of form blokes play in their place. Our run started by dropping a few slower players out of the midfield and backline and embracing modern football. Defend by playing close and using closing speed around the ball. Attach by running the ball, going aggressively and direct up the middle. Running in chains etc. All of which was extinguished at selection for a more defencive backline with no flair and bigger bodies who became withches hats in the middle.

We changed the structure come finals, it didn't work well, we lucked a couple of wins and then got bundled out of a game, which with a 5 goal lead at quarter time, we probably should have won if we were able to run the game out but we were torched for pace and found unable to match it.

We never beat Sydney or GWS in the back half of the season when we apparently changed our style.
We got flogged by GWS, fell over the line against Melbourne (was the ball touched?), beat Collingwood which was our best win, smashed Port but they were missing six, the rest weren’t top 8 sides.
Our last three games before finals we had two lucky/close wins against GC and Melbourne and were smashed by GWS.
The finals games were clearly a step up compared to the games we played before that

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Mods can we take all Dow talk out of this and any other thread and stick in a Doe thread?

It’s driving me and many others nuts now.

Or

Start bans on anyone who posts about him.

I really can’t stand it any more. I can’t block Dow as a chat like I can posters.

Not only that, I hate how it's always abbreviated...it's Dow Jones ffs!

 

[Chookaradley]

Is anybody else concerned about our key position depth?. Way I see it we are very thin, particularly forward.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Is anybody else concerned about our key position depth?. Way I see it we are very thin, particularly forward.

Yes, but I’m more concerned with the depth of our key backs.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

We should have had a National drafted KPD developing on our list over for at least the past couple of seasons, there is a widening gap between Weitering and our next staple KPD who should be the cornerstones of our defense over the next 6 years…
Lemmey was only added last year as the next and only KPF we currently have on our list, we’ve been late to the party with adding the next generation of positional needs at both ends, as well as other positional types we still require or have only just identified in the past year or two…

 

[esoteric]

Yes, but I’m more concerned with the depth of our key backs.

I'm not aware of JSOS ever being tried as a KPD. IF it has happened, when? If not, surely it's worth a crack. He has all the right skills IMHO and the heart and desperation to make up for whatever he is missing. Would solve a couple of of problems and make us a better side if it worked out.

 

[Coona Blues]

After watching Coleman, i just want us to get a few players with elite skills.
We are seriously lacking in this area.

The list could do with some tweaks, but, hey, you don’t play in AFL Preliminary finals without having elite skills.

I wish a lot around here would respect the club and the players while “suggesting” wants and needs.

 

[Coona Blues]

We should have had a National drafted KPD developing on our list over for at least the past couple of seasons, there is a widening gap between Weitering and our next staple KPD who should be the cornerstones of our defense over the next 6 years…
Lemmey was only added last year as the next and only KPF we currently have on our list, we’ve been late to the party with adding the next generation of positional needs at both ends, as well as other positional types we still require or have only just identified in the past year or two…

Not late, but now is the time. If we commit to the Campo boys, there will not likely be a chance next year..

 

[ParapMarkets]

I'm not aware of JSOS ever being tried as a KPD. IF it has happened, when? If not, surely it's worth a crack. He has all the right skills IMHO and the heart and desperation to make up for whatever he is missing. Would solve a couple of of problems and make us a better side if it worked out.

I’m not sure he’s big enough as a key back. He could probably be trialled as a third back.
As another poster has mentioned, the gulf between Weitering and the other key defensive options is large and a concern.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Are there any KPD options in the draft who look to have AFL attributes that will be available at our first pick?

 

[gbatman]

We never beat Sydney or GWS in the back half of the season when we apparently changed our style.
We got flogged by GWS, fell over the line against Melbourne (was the ball touched?), beat Collingwood which was our best win, smashed Port but they were missing six, the rest weren’t top 8 sides.
Our last three games before finals we had two lucky/close wins against GC and Melbourne and were smashed by GWS.
The finals games were clearly a step up compared to the games we played before that

We beat Port, Collingwood, St Kilda, Melbourne. Collingwood and Melbourne were pretty close to full strength so very good wins. Yes GWS was round 3 that's right. Maybe we had a lot of luck and were lucky to finish 5th. I don't know, we were playing well, we were playing with a different structure and ball movement system in the second half of the season. I'm not taking a great deal of notice about our GWS smashing. They became a very good side and we brought a heap of players back from long layoffs. Think we didn't turn up that game.

Next season will be a true test of where we are really at. I think a lot of sides are changing gear towards a more fast paced game and fast pace team makeup. There is a good chance Collingwood, Brisbane, GWS and maybe Port Adelaide remain strong. There is a good chance St Kilda, Adelaide, Sydney and the Gold Coast make major leaps forward. Could be a few others teams do the same but we will see.

I think we have a great list. We are just lacking the finishing touches to it such as better pace, two way run and rotation at half back and more pace and agility in our onball group as well as a really good forward mid.

Pittonett getting smashed against Brisbane is also a worry. We can't get into finals and have that happen.

I didn't think the finals games were a step up, I think that was all in our heads. Melbourne were without Brayshaw, they were weaker. Sydney were just an average side who hadn't beaten anyone of note and snuck into finals. There was nothing special about either of those teams on the night. Yet they smashed us in general play, fortunately they both had some of the worst kicking for goal efforts I have seen.

We went into finals carrying Cincotta who looked sore and was no longer running both ways. Walsh took a few games to get going but hit full tilt by the Melbourne game. Cerra never came good, he came back in terribly shape and could not run out games. We let Saad as the only rebounding defender until the Brisbane where we brought Boyd back after leaving him out for a few months. We dropped an fit and in form Dow and Fisher. We dropped Owies and Cuningham, One of our better forwards and one of our better mids and the half backs they would have been playing on cut us up.