List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Pommylovescarlton]

Whether they are A or B doesn't give us an extra total list spots.
It just means whether we end up with 4 + 3 or 5 + 2 rookies (or whatever).

The confusion seems to be because the rules say max of 2 cat B and then says you can add additional players under the cat B criteria but that they take spots of cat A (not in addition) yet doesn't specify if they will actually be cat A or B.

taken from the official players/agent handbook given to players entering the rookie and AFL NAB drafts for 2023 3 Cat B! Do not mind having discussion but sometimes we do get it wrong (mentioned 45 in my video due to being a rush and not including the rookie A and B break down which is 44 tops with all 3 combined) Hope this clears it up, But as it stands as confirmed on the Carlton webpage (usually your first port of call as the AFLPA request any Contract changes to be listed in announcements, O'Brien, Kennedy and Co have all been listed on the webpage as Signed a xyz Contract)


So after chatting with the dept of list management it is at 4 list spots currently the break down is and has been confirmed to me as the following





apologises again for the typo error on the video and script, these things happen when you spend your life actually watching live footage of draftees and not just recycling the content that cal twomey does and then making a video! any questions please fire away

Regards

Pom

 

[Pommylovescarlton]

View attachment 1841373

taken from the official players/agent handbook given to players entering the rookie and AFL NAB drafts for 2023 3 Cat B! Do not mind having discussion but sometimes we do get it wrong (mentioned 45 in my video due to being a rush and not including the rookie A and B break down which is 44 tops with all 3 combined) Hope this clears it up, But as it stands as confirmed on the Carlton webpage (usually your first port of call as the AFLPA request any Contract changes to be listed in announcements, O'Brien, Kennedy and Co have all been listed on the webpage as Signed a xyz Contract)


So after chatting with the dept of list management it is at 4 list spots currently the break down is and has been confirmed to me as the following


View attachment 1841384


apologises again for the typo error on the video and script, these things happen when you spend your life actually watching live footage of draftees and not just recycling the content that cal twomey does and then making a video! any questions please fire away

Regards

Pom

AMMENDED as Orazio is listed as a 2 year Senior Listed Deal

 

[JuddgementDay]

What’ve we lacked in the prelim? Speed

Now add these three:
1. Zilliams to backline
2. EH to mid/ fwd - not super fast, but ain’t slow
3. Orazio to fwd line

Suddenly, our side is more balanced

I’m super excited with the addition of EH & OF!

Now, let’s “go to the draft” - with just two selections

 

[PezzDogg95]

View attachment 1841373

taken from the official players/agent handbook given to players entering the rookie and AFL NAB drafts for 2023 3 Cat B! Do not mind having discussion but sometimes we do get it wrong (mentioned 45 in my video due to being a rush and not including the rookie A and B break down which is 44 tops with all 3 combined) Hope this clears it up, But as it stands as confirmed on the Carlton webpage (usually your first port of call as the AFLPA request any Contract changes to be listed in announcements, O'Brien, Kennedy and Co have all been listed on the webpage as Signed a xyz Contract)


So after chatting with the dept of list management it is at 4 list spots currently the break down is and has been confirmed to me as the following


View attachment 1841384


apologises again for the typo error on the video and script, these things happen when you spend your life actually watching live footage of draftees and not just recycling the content that cal twomey does and then making a video! any questions please fire away

Regards

Pom

Hi Pom,

I think the issue is that item c) stipulates one Irish player. So only one can be Cat B and the other needs to be Cat A (or Senior list).

Similar to when we had Ciaran Byrne and Ciaran Sheehan on the list a few years back, and Sheehan was listed as a Cat A Rookie until Byrne was promoted to the senior list, when Sheehan then became a Cat B Rookie.

The list rules haven't changed from last year and won't under the new CBA, we will go into 2024 with a 36-6-2 structure.

We will take 2 picks at the Draft and upgrade a Rookie - likely Jordan Boyd (to meet the 3 list changes) and be done with the off-season.

 

[bluesDeluxe]

When a player is almost on the scrap heap due to continual injuries, no need to lure or add years to a contract when he is the one under assessment for his durability to be a regular playing AFL footballer, not others on the list.

I’d assume pressure is on all the others to perform to get a berth in the team regardless, 2yrs only serves to lockout a list spot for Orazio’s position in the squad. 1yr with triggers but 2yrs is hindering list management IMO.

Hardly on the scrapheap. Offered contracts by 2 other clubs

 

[bluesDeluxe]

No we don’t. We must promote one rookie to right the ledger.

This signing amazes me, but clearly we have identified an area of improvement (as most of us suspected).

Odds firming for mine that one if our picks will still be a forward/mid prospect to potentially improve the mix beyond Fantasia.

I was calculating for rookie upgrades over the next couple of years to meet list requirements next year. Looking like the single year contract forward types in Fogarty and Cuningham are up against it, along with OOC next year Owies and Durdin.

Clear message for mine.

I think If we were going to promote a rookie, we would of heard about it now.

 

[Stamos]

I think If we were going to promote a rookie, we would have heard about it now.

Why?
1st list lodgement isn’t until Tuesday. And it’s not something we’ve been historically good with announcing.

 

[Pommylovescarlton]

Hi Pom,

I think the issue is that item c) stipulates one Irish player. So only one can be Cat B and the other needs to be Cat A (or Senior list).

Similar to when we had Ciaran Byrne and Ciaran Sheehan on the list a few years back, and Sheehan was listed as a Cat A Rookie until Byrne was promoted to the senior list, when Sheehan then became a Cat B Rookie.

The list rules haven't changed from last year and won't under the new CBA, we will go into 2024 with a 36-6-2 structure.

We will take 2 picks at the Draft and upgrade a Rookie - likely Jordan Boyd (to meet the 3 list changes) and be done with the off-season.

As the Carlton Webpage states International Rookies, As the agreement between us Saints and Pies, they will be classed as Int Rookies and GWS were allowed 3, the 3 Cat B rookie system is used today by GWS and Dogs. Cal Brown was listed on their webpage as a IRISH international rookie the wording of Carltons is International rookie rule, like I could be wrong I do spend a lot of time researching and watching junior football, i understand the rule, but as Per AFL rules as above the 36-6-2 was changed last year, the screenshot is from an actual book you get for entering the draft and next steps handed out by the AFPLA

 

[Stamos]

As the Carlton Webpage states International Rookies, As the agreement between us Saints and Pies, they will be classed as Int Rookies and GWS were allowed 3, the 3 Cat B rookie system is used today by GWS and Dogs. Cal Brown was listed on their webpage as a IRISH international rookie the wording of Carltons is International rookie rule, like I could be wrong I do spend a lot of time researching and watching junior football, i understand the rule, but as Per AFL rules as above the 36-6-2 was changed last year, the screenshot is from an actual book you get for entering the draft and next steps handed out by the AFPLA

The rule has been, only 1 Irish can be listed as Cat B.
That may have changed, but I haven’t seen any announcement anywhere?

 

[PezzDogg95]

As the Carlton Webpage states International Rookies, As the agreement between us Saints and Pies, they will be classed as Int Rookies and GWS were allowed 3, the 3 Cat B rookie system is used today by GWS and Dogs. Cal Brown was listed on their webpage as a IRISH international rookie the wording of Carltons is International rookie rule, like I could be wrong I do spend a lot of time researching and watching junior football, i understand the rule, but as Per AFL rules as above the 36-6-2 was changed last year, the screenshot is from an actual book you get for entering the draft and next steps handed out by the AFPLA

Don't disagree re Callum Brown, who was a Cat B Rookie - Key difference is GWS didn't have another Irish player to convolute this.

The club likely made the release saying International rookies as to cover both Cat A & Cat B.

Excerpt from AFL website below is the Irish rule:

IRISH ROOKIE PRE-SELECTION

Irish players can be signed directly to a club’s Rookie List under the International Player Rule and do not have to go through the draft. Previously, Irish players could not be listed as Category B rookies but took a spot on the main Rookie List.

Clubs can now list one Irish player as a Category B rookie but for each additional Irish player rookie listed, that player will be deemed to be a Category A rookie and the club will forfeit its last selection in the Rookie Draft for each additional player listed.

Rookie Players - AFL.com.au

Different story if one is from the US or other, but suspect one of Monahan or Duffy will be a Cat A rookie and the other Cat B.

If you are correct and we can list a 3rd Cat B Rookie, it will have to be from elsewhere, which I doubt we fill this late in the piece.

 

[bluesDeluxe]

That's ok, you're allowed to disagree.

Especially when you do it so constructively like that...

Thanks

 

[Pommylovescarlton]

The rule has been, only 1 Irish can be listed as Cat B.
That may have changed, but I haven’t seen any announcement anywhere?

Indeed it has, My understanding is and I could be wrong (not one like most to just quote the rules 88 times when most people can read) Is That as it is a recognised International Scholarship/Program to reopen the Australia Irish movement, that as it is listed on the AFL webpage and Carltons Webpage as "Both have signed as International Rookies" that it is akin to the floating AFL list policy of (As the program i posted states 3 CAT B has been the rule in that sheet for 2 years and multiple clubs currently have 3 CAT b) The afl that there will have been a pre agreement, List sizes are still under the CBA of 44 but looking at last year clubs got dispensation to go over the public 2 Cat Bs and as AFL and Carlton have confirmed they are International Rookies, International Rookie rule only covers the B classfication as per the CBA release

These six rookies are now classified as Category A rookies. These can be added in the Rookie draft and are All Players not falling under the B criteria or pre agreed Contract downgrades from the main senior list as per agreement of player and club.

In addition to these six rookie-listed players, each club can include up to three additional players (now referred to as Category B rookies) on its Rookie List provided the player either:

• has not registered in an Australian Football competition for three years immediately before inclusion on the Rookie List;
• is an international player, meaning he is not an Australian citizen and has not lived in Australia for a substantial period;
• is a former NSW Scholarship player with that club;
• is a former International Scholarship player with that club;
• is a rookie Zone Selection for clubs based in NSW or Queensland

 

[Pommylovescarlton]

Don't disagree re Callum Brown, who was a Cat B Rookie - Key difference is GWS didn't have another Irish player to convolute this.

The club likely made the release saying International rookies as to cover both Cat A & Cat B.

Excerpt from AFL website below is the Irish rule:



Rookie Players - AFL.com.au

Different story if one is from the US or other, but suspect one of Monahan or Duffy will be a Cat A rookie and the other Cat B.

If you are correct and we can list a 3rd Cat B Rookie, it will have to be from elsewhere, which I doubt we fill this late in the piece.

Again I understand the laws of the game and contracts. However my understanding (Remember I interviewed the lads and got wind of it) Is the agreement in place with the AFL and Irish body, is its a program, thus as the AFL rule book has clearly stated this year and last year up to 3 Cat B can be listed (remember that handbook is given to the families on entering the draft and drafted players 3 Cat Bs are listed as a max) Hence GWS and Dogs have taken this route, GWS using the Northern States luxury for Cat B, and the Dogs used the Extension of Zones and unfamiliar route to the AFL. Generally speaking (last 3 years) if someone has been brought in straight to the CAT A method (few examples of this) they are spefically listed as signed as a Category A player

 

[Soapy V]

Again I understand the laws of the game and contracts. However my understanding (Remember I interviewed the lads and got wind of it) Is the agreement in place with the AFL and Irish body, is its a program, thus as the AFL rule book has clearly stated this year and last year up to 3 Cat B can be listed (remember that handbook is given to the families on entering the draft and drafted players 3 Cat Bs are listed as a max) Hence GWS and Dogs have taken this route, GWS using the Northern States luxury for Cat B, and the Dogs used the Extension of Zones and unfamiliar route to the AFL. Generally speaking (last 3 years) if someone has been brought in straight to the CAT A method (few examples of this) they are spefically listed as signed as a Category A player

I posted similar a few days ago. I’m not sure of the machinations of it all but I know the club was asking for clarification and believe it could be done

 

[Pommylovescarlton]

But in short it makes no difference if we have created a loop hole and its called the Cat Pom Rookie, the strategy will be 2 picks, a ugrade on A and we move on to win 17

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Thanks

You're welcome.

Feel free to actually dispute or debate anything I've said anytime. I know it's common practise around here (for some) to be able to insult and denegrate others without substance or reason, but just leaving the door ajar for you.

 

[Pommylovescarlton]

I posted similar a few days ago. I’m not sure of the machinations of it all but I know the club was asking for clarification and believe it could be done

it is a great discussion! like it would not be unusual at all, and I know people like to read the rule book but as my above screenshot shows the general 2 cat b is not true, thats an official AFL booklet handed to all draftees that i have access too, and mulitple clubs run with 3 cat Bs, so generally from my research that 3rd cat b is coming from a special dispensation of the AFL which i would assume as the AFL requested us pies and Saints to make the trip to Ireland and create combines for them that it would fall under that cat quite easily as the old Cat B law of irish players was when all 18 clubs were actively flying out there but have all since backed away and the AFL want to re open the door with a select team who are not accessing their usual medium due to poor catchments

 

[Soapy V]

it is a great discussion! like it would not be unusual at all, and I know people like to read the rule book but as my above screenshot shows the general 2 cat b is not true, thats an official AFL booklet handed to all draftees that i have access too, and mulitple clubs run with 3 cat Bs, so generally from my research that 3rd cat b is coming from a special dispensation of the AFL which i would assume as the AFL requested us pies and Saints to make the trip to Ireland and create combines for them that it would fall under that cat quite easily as the old Cat B law of irish players was when all 18 clubs were actively flying out there but have all since backed away and the AFL want to re open the door with a select team who are not accessing their usual medium due to poor catchments

Yep. I was told the same

 

[Arr0w]

Adverse recruitment opinions are allowed though. You will never get 100% consensus on anything so just accept them as representative of society. It's a fringe selection and some won't see value in it. Such is life.

Absolutely all opinions are allowed, my opinion is that some of the opinions are bizarre, especially that it was a DFA that didn't cost us a valuable and or highend pick

 

[Pommylovescarlton]

Yep. I was told the same

"Duffy, one of Ireland’s rising stars, won the two-kilometre time trial as part of the testing the Irish players conducted and his height and endurance mean he projects as a versatile option.

The last Longford player to compete in the AFL was Essendon’s Michael Quinn, who played eight matches in 2009 and 2010.

Monahan, who is 189 centimetres, is also an excellent athlete and has already performed well in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby.

Both players are 19 and will accept two-year category B rookie contracts, subject to them passing medical testing. Carlton’s VFL coach, Luke Power, is expected to work closely with them."

This was an article from Marc McGowan in the AGE

Also alludes to the its a Pathway program here to substitute our NGA and lack of talent acquisition

"Carlton list boss Nick Austin, national recruiting manager Michael Agresta and club legend Greg Williams all made the trip, and were impressed with the players’ athleticism, speed and skills after overseeing a battery of testing and drills.

Duffy and Monahan took part in AFL-run sessions under Gerard Sholly’s watch, with former Magpie Marty Clarke and ex-Giant Cora Staunton also involved in the program designed to bring prospects up to speed.



St Kilda and Gold Coast have also travelled to Ireland on scouting missions, as AFL clubs prepare to again invest in the so-called “Irish experiment” after a lull owing largely to COVID-19 and reduced resources"

 

[PezzDogg95]

"Duffy, one of Ireland’s rising stars, won the two-kilometre time trial as part of the testing the Irish players conducted and his height and endurance mean he projects as a versatile option.

The last Longford player to compete in the AFL was Essendon’s Michael Quinn, who played eight matches in 2009 and 2010.

Monahan, who is 189 centimetres, is also an excellent athlete and has already performed well in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby.

Both players are 19 and will accept two-year category B rookie contracts, subject to them passing medical testing. Carlton’s VFL coach, Luke Power, is expected to work closely with them."

This was an article from Marc McGowan in the AGE

Also alludes to the its a Pathway program here to substitute our NGA and lack of talent acquisition

"Carlton list boss Nick Austin, national recruiting manager Michael Agresta and club legend Greg Williams all made the trip, and were impressed with the players’ athleticism, speed and skills after overseeing a battery of testing and drills.

Duffy and Monahan took part in AFL-run sessions under Gerard Sholly’s watch, with former Magpie Marty Clarke and ex-Giant Cora Staunton also involved in the program designed to bring prospects up to speed.



St Kilda and Gold Coast have also travelled to Ireland on scouting missions, as AFL clubs prepare to again invest in the so-called “Irish experiment” after a lull owing largely to COVID-19 and reduced resources"

Fair enough, happy to be proven wrong because it means we have an extra Senior/Cat A spot up our sleeve to use.

Suppose that we will find out for certain on draft night.

 

[Pommylovescarlton]

Fair enough, happy to be proven wrong because it means we have an extra Senior/Cat A spot up our sleeve to use.

Suppose that we will find out for certain on draft night.

Fair enough, happy to be proven wrong because it means we have an extra Senior/Cat A spot up our sleeve to use.

Suppose that we will find out for certain on draft night.

My Understanding my friend is its currently

33 : Senior listed

Adam Cerra

Adam Saad

Blake Acres

Brodie Kemp

Caleb Marchbank

Charlie Curnow

Corey Durdin

David Cuningham

Elijah Hollands

George Hewett

Harry Lemmey

Harry McKay

Jack Silvagni

Jack Carroll

Jack Martin

Jacob Weitering

Jaxon Binns

Jesse Motlop

Lachlan Cowan

Lachlan Fogarty

Lewis Young

Marc Pittonet

Matt Owies

Matthew Kennedy

Mitch McGovern

Nic Newman

Oliver Hollands

Orazio Fantasia

Patrick Cripps

Sam Docherty

Sam Walsh

Tom De Koning

Zac Williams ROOKIE A - 6 Alex Cincotta Alex Mirkov Hudson O'Keeffe Jordan Boyd Matt Cottrell Sam Durdin and 3 Cat B - 3 Domanic Akuei* Matt Duffy* Rob Monahan* So that would be 42 players, Reading the by laws the 3rd Cat B counts towards the full 44, so we would have 33+6+3= 42 so would assume its 22 and 28 and then we go home and have dinner, unless we get 8 for them 20s and we just promote a bloke then rookie someone for banter

 

[Kramer1]

If his body holds up (and I trust the source 100%), we've snagged a bargain.

#carltonthings

 

[bluesDeluxe]

You're welcome.

Feel free to actually dispute or debate anything I've said anytime. I know it's common practise around here (for some) to be able to insult and denegrate others without substance or reason, but just leaving the door ajar for you.

Well aren't you a beacon of light.

When you make outrageous claims about what Austin may of done in the case of trading for fantasia 3 years ago, then that is indeed a load of crap.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Well aren't you a beacon of light.

When you make outrageous claims about what Austin may of done in the case of trading for fantasia 3 years ago, then that is indeed a load of crap.

You see; you use words like "outrageous" but back it up with nothing. What's outrageous about it? You say my posts are "a load of crap", but you don't rebut in any way. Haven't you already been warned about this and to do better when posting? Be careful, only a select few can get away with that... and I don't think you're one of them.

I'm here for any debate or to hear points you or anyone else would have about Austin's record as our list manager. If you were to say perhaps I'm being harsh, because the outcomes will become clearer with time... I could understand. Because he's only been here since the start of 2020. But you're just shitposting.

I'm worried about him in that role. I haven't hit the full blown panic button, but I think he is soft when push comes to shove, specifically in the trading realm. I don't take great heart from his (limited) press conferences either, where he looks like he always has tears in his eyes, he is so nervous. I also don't like our approach to PR, I think we are too honest with the media in this space and people know our intentions and hence, we have no room to bluff or play hard ball.

I think the trades he has done so far, he breaks about even. Maybe. Some gems have fallen into his lap, he made a good deal with Collingwood last year for picks, he's probably overpaid once or twice and he's made some erorrs when trading our players out; being the one to bend as I've posted about here and on the D&T board.

I'd be happy to go over it, but don't just give me what you have been. Otherwise piss off and stop quoting me. Is that fair enough?