List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[4flagsin5yrs]

Carlton F.C. website says 192 cm's.

nope, 194.

 

[BlueJet]

Carlton F.C. website says 192 cm's.

I've seen him listed 191, 192 & 194 - it'd be nice if you could trust listed heights.

We will most likely part with Marchbank, Martin and Cuningham who have far worse issues / records getting on the park.

He’ll do nicely slotting back in as our third key forward, he fights harder than anyone to retain the ball in our forward line, and he is occasional ruck relief.

Apart from the knee injury this year, and a contact injury of some sort last year, he’s had a solid career, playing in the seniors and twos. Every team needs players 23-30 on the list and JSOS is as good as any.

Tbh I thought they were discussing Jack Martin.

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

nope, 194.

Well I will bet my right testicle that he was 192 at one stage, Lol.

 

[rf04]

Owies manager has popped his name out because we haven’t offered him a contract yet. This is after we extended two other players that play a similar position to him.

Owies represents good trade capital right now. Can potentially use him to facilitate other trades and/or pick swaps to our advantage. Must be part of a bigger picture strategy. He’s a good player but we have cover for that role. I think it could be one of those cases of ‘giving up something to get something’.

 

[chipzac]

Well I will bet my right testicle that he was 192 at one stage, Lol.

nope, always 194 (painful birth)

 

[Jatz]

We will most likely part with Marchbank, Martin and Cuningham who have far worse issues / records getting on the park.

He’ll do nicely slotting back in as our third key forward, he fights harder than anyone to retain the ball in our forward line, and he is occasional ruck relief.

Apart from the knee injury this year, and a contact injury of some sort last year, he’s had a solid career, playing in the seniors and twos. Every team needs players 23-30 on the list and JSOS is as good as any.

Ok so this is where the confusion is coming from. I was talking about Jack Martin.

No way am I getting rid of JSos.

 

[Wickzki]

If the Crows drop Rachele after his act of immaturity last week in the heat of the Showdown rivalry I'd be getting into his ear as soon as possible.

AFL great cautions Crows to “tread warily” if omitting controversial Josh Rachele

“Do you want him in that frame of mind in the off-season?”

www.sen.com.au

 

[bradfisher14]

If the Crows drop Rachele after his act of immaturity last week in the heat of the Showdown rivalry I'd be getting into his ear as soon as possible.

AFL great cautions Crows to “tread warily” if omitting controversial Josh Rachele

“Do you want him in that frame of mind in the off-season?”

www.sen.com.au

Think he's been dropped 3 times this year for either not putting his body on the line, form or this case of immaturity.

I used to think he would be a perfect fit, but I'd be very wary of picking him up, especially considering the price that the crows will demand.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Owies represents good trade capital right now. Can potentially use him to facilitate other trades and/or pick swaps to our advantage. Must be part of a bigger picture strategy. He’s a good player but we have cover for that role. I think it could be one of those cases of ‘giving up something to get something’.

Agree. If owies delivered a top 30 pick, and we have an eye on someone, I would consider it. Whilst 30+ goal kickers don't grow on trees, his tackle numbers are low and I think his performances gainst top 8 sides are poor

 

[Coops93]

Think he's been dropped 3 times this year for either not putting his body on the line, form or this case of immaturity.

I used to think he would be a perfect fit, but I'd be very wary of picking him up, especially considering the price that the crows will demand.

Depends how fed up they are with him - but agree that they will ask for a haul.

It's not just the immaturity, I think it's the unwillingness to consistently put his body on the line. Particularly in this game just gone, talking big during the week the winding up the crowd only to shirk a 1v1 contest against a 9 gamer... it's an embarassing look.

He's not the first and he won't be the last to do it, it's just that when you talk that way, then do things like that, it annoys your team mates, your fans, and gets the opposition fans and players up and about.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Did Jon Ralph just report that Jack Martin is about to be offered another contract?



As an aside, really irks me when people refer to Martin as a small forward.

If we do offer/have offered him a one year deal, I suspect it's the kind of lowball one year deal that tells him we'd rather he found another home, but tells any other interested clubs that we're not delisting him so they can have him for free.

 

[Jatz]

Hard no on Rachele.

Football is a tough game and where these guys put their bodies will regularly have me in awe of them. Nothing against Josh if he's not comfortable doing that, but I would hate to see him do it here. Imagine a contest to win a final and he puts one of his famous efforts in?

 

[Coops93]

As an aside, really irks me when people refer to Martin as a small forward.

It really irked me when we were pursuing him in that off-season as for the Suns he didn't actually spend all that much time up forward. He spent more time as an intercepting half back/marking winger than forward. Yet every article said, "Small forward". Granted, he has played almost solely forward here, but with the Suns it was not his main spot.

 

[DangerousD]

Owies represents good trade capital right now. Can potentially use him to facilitate other trades and/or pick swaps to our advantage. Must be part of a bigger picture strategy. He’s a good player but we have cover for that role. I think it could be one of those cases of ‘giving up something to get something’.

I’m assuming the same thing, i am sceptical that we have adequate cover though, the cover is Motlop, Fog, Durdin and Fantasia.

Owies has scored more than double all of them combined.

Owies has flaws, but commitment and availability aren’t one one of them, considering our troubles with injuries, assuming four injury prone players is adequate coverage is risky.

 

[MITSUHIRATO]

Hard no on Rachele.

Football is a tough game and where these guys put their bodies will regularly have me in awe of them. Nothing against Josh if he's not comfortable doing that, but I would hate to see him do it here. Imagine a contest to win a final and he puts one of his famous efforts in?

Seems like the kind of guy who would spray cologne before running out.

 

[DangerousD]

Depends how fed up they are with him - but agree that they will ask for a haul.

It's not just the immaturity, I think it's the unwillingness to consistently put his body on the line. Particularly in this game just gone, talking big during the week the winding up the crowd only to shirk a 1v1 contest against a 9 gamer... it's an embarassing look.

He's not the first and he won't be the last to do it, it's just that when you talk that way, then do things like that, it annoys your team mates, your fans, and gets the opposition fans and players up and about.

The fact that he likes a bit of banter or that he has a big mouth, makes his failings on field amplified and examined, he’s then dragged over the coals for it.

I’ve seen the footage of a few contests that he’s shirked and its not great, i have no idea though if its a downward trend or an upward one to know if its a real issue, I’ve seen our own smaller players shirk several contests throughout the year and due to who they are, its rarely spoken about.

I also think the media love a villain, they encourage a character, only to revel in the aftermath, i think they do the same with Ginnivan, he then leaves his club for a bargain, when the noise dies down, you see they are good players with flaws, just like everyone else.

What do you consider a haul, in terms of what Adelaide would want? I dont see it being that big, our current pick 11 and a 2nd would be around the mark i think.

 

[Coops93]

The fact that he likes a bit of banter or that he has a big mouth, makes his failings on field amplified and examined, he’s then dragged over the coals for it.

I’ve seen the footage of a few contests that he’s shirked and its not great, i have no idea though if its a downward trend or an upward one to know if its a real issue, I’ve seen our own smaller players shirk several contests throughout the year and due to who they are, its rarely spoken about.

I also think the media love a villain, they encourage a character, only to revel in the aftermath, i think they do the same with Ginnivan, he then leaves his club for a bargain, when the noise dies down, you see they are good players with flaws, just like everyone else.

What do you consider a haul, in terms of what Adelaide would want? I dont see it being that big, our current pick 11 and a 2nd would be around the mark i think.

I don't inherently dislike his talk, I'm not dragging him for that solely, it's more the big talk combined with the shirking of contests and not backing it up on field that's the issue. Not even just trash talk in the media, he's also questioned his position in the side and his role openly in the media - questioning the coaches use of him, despite his play not really warranting what he's asking for. Broadly, he seems like a bit of a diva.

His play hasn't warranted the big head he seems to have, and to be honest I'm not all that surprised a teammate or 2 have openly talked about him lately. He needs to pull it in a bit until he has runs on the board, as it is he doesn't really have any but acts like he's on par with Rankine, when he's not even close.

As for what he's worth, look given the above I do still think he has potential, and this could all well just be some youthful silliness which does happen. Imo, since his rookie year, his value has dipped. They locked him in early with a long, long contract after he looked like he could be anything in his first yr, but since then he's gotten big headed and his on field returns have waned. I'd value him as a mid first rounder but I'm not convinced Adelaide would take that. A lot would depend on how much (if at all) he's wearing thin on the team/coaches, if so then I see them taking it, but I'm not sure he's at that point yet.

 

[marleyblue]

At the rate Cowan is progressing Tasmania will come for him sooner rather than later, if they do we will be rewarded with picks.
Doc may not make it back.
Boyd looks shot, literally.
Wilson needs time.
Saad looking more and more old mannish/wheelchairy/soft tissuey and Newman in the twilight.
Do we need Dan Houston? Yes, yes we do. Can we afford him? We should find a way.
Got a feeling we will only draft Ben C f/s
Should be combing lists/draft for KPDs.
As far as delistings/trades are concerned we all know who should go and 70% should be on the table.
Will this year be a mini rebuild of sorts, I hate to say it but it smells like our cooking.

Tasmania don't enter the comp till 2028 so the earliest they could have a crack at Cowan would be to trade for him with picks in the 2027 draft. That's three more seasons for Cowan to develop into a gun and three more years for him to be totally committed to the club and life in Melbourne. I'm not worried about him going home - he'd know they will likely be uncompetitive and cop beltings for at least the first few years and there will always be the option to head south and finish his career at Tassie when he's in his 30s with 3 premierships to his name.

As for Houston, definitely would be a nice addition but not for the reported cost. It looks like a deep draft and I'd prefer if we prioritised finding a skilful goalkicking mid; a key defender to partner Weitering and/or a lighting quick mercurial crumbing forward.

Feels like a critical off-season for list management - we to nail our picks and also try and find some late gems, Geelong-style VFL gun mature agers (Charlie McCartin?) and cheap trades (Elijah, Hewett, Newman) to refresh the list.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Think he's been dropped 3 times this year for either not putting his body on the line, form or this case of immaturity.

I used to think he would be a perfect fit, but I'd be very wary of picking him up, especially considering the price that the crows will demand.

Crows hate us, they jack up his price. I think Rachele would fit the mid/hff role we need anyways.

Pretty sure I read somewhere he did train with us in his draft year. But I find it very unlikey he ask for trade unless the AFC have a complete breakdown.

 

[Jatz]

He's also got a long term contract, would cost more than he's worth.

 

[morningbrown]

Rachele is a match winner and has incredible X factor. We lack so much of this. I'd be taking him in a heartbeat.

 

[Christou2Kouta]

If we do offer/have offered him a one year deal, I suspect it's the kind of lowball one year deal that tells him we'd rather he found another home, but tells any other interested clubs that we're not delisting him so they can have him for free.

This is why I think the whole off-season trading/drafting period is flawed and needs a revamp.

1. Clubs should be assigned draft points based on ladder positions leading into the trade period instead of a draft order.
2. Any uncontracted player should be able to sign for whichever club they choose. Based on the average of their most recent contract and their new contract, a certain number of points should be deducted from the club that the player goes to and awarded to the club they came from. No more haggling required.
3. If a club isn't willing to forfeit any draft points to sign a player, that player should go into the draft.
4. At the end of the trade period, the number of points each club has determines the draft order.
5. As opposed to players entering the draft for the first time, players with AFL experience can nominate higher salary terms, with the maximum being the average AFL wage of players with their number of years of experience from the previous season.
6. Players drafted in the first round get a three-year deal, 2nd and 3rd rounds get a two year deal, and from 4th rounds onwards, a minimum of one year. (There is no rookie draft.)
7. If the player is undrafted at that point they can be signed for free by a club with open list positions.

It means clubs would only need to negotiate trades on contracted players, which would be easier to do because you're not scrambling to find a mid-second-round pick when you've got a late first-round and early third, you just handover the agreed number of points.

This would stop clubs from losing decent uncontracted players for virtually nothing if another club genuinely wants that player.

 

[Wickzki]

Think he's been dropped 3 times this year for either not putting his body on the line, form or this case of immaturity.

I used to think he would be a perfect fit, but I'd be very wary of picking him up, especially considering the price that the crows will demand.

Rachele has played all 22 games this year, 0 games as sub.

Last year he missed 1 game with suspension and played 1 game as the sub.

He injured his hip in round 16 of his debut year and missed the rest of the year. The only other time he missed games that year were weeks 11-13 when he was rested through either side of the Crows bye.

This would be the first time he has been dropped.

For someone accused of being a bit of a squib he pressures well defensively (only Fogarty and Hollands who play further up the ground than Rachele have more tackles as Carlton forwards) and doesn't play for free kicks anywhere close to the level other players do (e.g. the comparison someone made to Ginnivan is off base; Ginnivan has almost twice as many free kicks).

Has he shirked a few contests? Sure but he's a young small forward and this will change as he physically matures.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Agree. If owies delivered a top 30 pick, and we have an eye on someone, I would consider it. Whilst 30+ goal kickers don't grow on trees, his tackle numbers are low and I think his performances gainst top 8 sides are poor

Rubbish, his tackling numbers - averages 2.3 this year - are entirely comparable to most small forwards....

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

owies is our only small forward to put runs on the board....be wary about trading him!