List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[Wickzki]

Where did you hear this? It's this career threatening?

I've edited that part of my post for accuracy.

I haven't read that it's career-threatening and it may not be but the 110 thing is in the news -- in both a Herald Sun article and The Age.

It's an armchair opinion based on a) what Petracca has told the media; B) what we know about the heart and c) having worked in sports.

For reference:

What to Know About Your Running Heart Rate

Staying active every day is a great way to protect your heart and keep it healthy for the long run.

www.adventhealth.com

The injury happened on June 10 (over two months ago).

He's not medically cleared to have a heart rate of 110 (because there's significant potential for health impacts beyond football). He has no idea if or when he will be given the medical clearance to go above 110.

Normal resting heart rate is 60-100.

Most professional runners are in the 100 (lower end) to 160 range running.

Consider the additional physical impacts that an AFL player endures on top of the running.

Genuinely scary stuff.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Where did you hear this? It's this career threatening?

It’s his heart rate he can’t get above 110, which his resting would be sub 50 (mine is and I wouldn’t run a 2k as fast as his)

It’s in the HS

He’ll be fine, it’s very standard for the injury he has sustained. He almost lost his spleen man, he will come back it isn’t career threatening but it’s a 16-20 week period of extreme restrictions. He would also have huge abdominal wall trauma from the surgery.

 

[Accidental genius]

Is it?

Off field? I think it is.

 

[Accidental genius]

Let's see.

I could joke about bundling up our injury prone, but we'd need to offer someome they really need
Who would that be? Plus picks of course.

We couldn’t afford it…they’d want to strip us to our underpants.

 

[Crippa#9]

I can’t see Melbourne doing it for anything less than Cerra plus a future first

Still think Melbourne would laugh at us with even that proposal

 

[goreds]

Our midfields already unstoppable when they're on song. It's when the opposition get the ball that we get absolutely torched to smitherines which is our issue.

Petracca isn't going to help with that.

We need to address our outside run and ball use more than we need Petracca.

I think our turnover game would improve significantly, just saying…

 

[Wickzki]

It’s his heart rate he can’t get above 110, which his resting would be sub 50 (mine is and I wouldn’t run a 2k as fast as his)

It’s in the HS

He’ll be fine, it’s very standard for the injury he has sustained. He almost lost his spleen man, he will come back it isn’t career threatening but it’s a 16-20 week period of extreme restrictions. He would also have huge abdominal wall trauma from the surgery.

Standard?

Not according to accepted (National Library of Medicine) medical research.

Splenic Lacerations and Return to Play: Case Report of 2 Professional Hockey Players - PMC

Several sports medicine reviews have highlighted a 3- to 6-month time frame for return to play after splenic lacerations. These reviews are based on several well-defined grading scales for splenic injury based on computed tomography (CT). None of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Savage et al indicated that splenic healing occurs within 2 to 2.5 months, regardless of the severity of initial injury, but they stressed the importance of clinical correlation.17 Within the pediatric surgical literature, multiple authors support 3 months for healing prior to return to activity

At this point, it is unusual that he has no timeline.

 

[goreds]

If you wanted Petracca it would involve Cerra if earlier reports of Melbourne being interested in him are correct. Cerra and probably a few picks. He's a top shelf player. Petracca would be an awesome get as he would be an upgrade on a few regulars in a big way, gives us burst speed and a forward rotation.

Granted he doesn't add a great deal to our issues with pressure and closing speed on opposition players. That's another issue.

I think he gets the ball more and disposal is next level.
He is an elite mid and an elite medium forward.
Cripps and Petracca in the same midfield, unbelievable…

 

[Stamos]

Cripps and Petracca in the same midfield, unbelievable…

Literally.

 

[M_I_G]

IMO Pittonet has made his way onto the trade table with his poor performances over the last 6 weeks. He had proven himself to be nothing more than a backup ruckman at best so if a club comes knocking we should be prepared to trade him. He is contracted so we should be able to get some trade value for him.

This is a joke right?
We’d give him away for free IF we had a replacement and if the other club takes on whatever average salary we signed him up for. Absolute disaster move resigning him given the calibre of rucks on the move each year. Sure his 2023 form was acceptable, crash n bash n tackle. The drop off this year is frightening and he’s a shell of a player (sorry pitto, know you’re a great bloke) but you’ve laid 1 tackle over the last three weeks, any time he takes a mark it’s a miracle, and I haven’t even touched on his mobility.

 

[goreds]

Barass set to join Hawks on a 5 year deal.

Thats one guy we should be having a chat to.

Not sure we can sell him the dream more than the Hawks can though. Not after what they just did to us this week.

That’s easy, would you rather live in North Carlton or Wantirna…

 

[agro]

We need to do something as currently our premiership window looks like this

 

[goreds]

Literally.

We have to hold on to some hope!

 

[Jatz]

They wouldn't entertain any trade offer anyway but you'd assume it would need to involve one of Harry/Charlie (due to Melbourne's lack of forward presence) and then probably a bit more. Plus picks I'd guess.

It'd not be worth it by the time you made them happy.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

We have to hold on to some hope!

I'd prefer to hope that the staff figure out a way to reduce reliance on star power and not increase it

 

[Stamos]

We have to hold on to some hope!

Our hope should be improving the list by getting rid of those not up to it and adding pace, not about chasing another $1M+ player.

 

[macky99]

Our hope should be improving the list by getting rid of those not up to it and adding pace, not about chasing another $1M+ player.

Absolutely spot on, this is very much the old Carlton way buy a big name player and thinking that is going to solve all our problems.
He is 29 in January coming off a serious injury, we have 3-4 key list requirements that we need to address via the draft & trade period, & review of the fitness training program & support staff to Voss need to be key focus areas.

 

[El Topo]

The point is that all the players that people want to trade will get us a late 2nd at best.
The eg of Walsh was just a hypothetical to illustrate that we need to trade quality to get quality, not bring in 3rd round picks that will achieve **** all.

Since the draft fiasco Sydney have rebuilt several times and won 2 premierships from 6 grand finals.
Geelong, 4 premierships from 6 grand finals.
Collingwood, 2 premierships from 6 grand finals.
Richmond, 3 premierships from 3 grand finals.
Melbourne, 1 premiership from one grand final.
Bulldogs, 1 premiership from 2 grand finals.
West Coast, 2 premierships from 4 grand finals.
Hawthorn, 4 premierships from 4 grand finals.
St Kilda, 0 from 2 grand finals.
Fremantle 1 failed attempt.
Brisbane 1 failed attempt. Their 3 peat excluded because they were strong at the start of the time frame.

All of those clubs have struggled at some point during that period.
Dockers were a rabble at the time of the penalties. Eagles have dipped at least twice.
Hawthorn have passed us yet again.

But hey, will just hold all our picks and all our players and we'll be right because we're Carlton, hey bloke?
We'll be right hey, 'cos we've won 16 of 'em before hey, and we got lots money, hey bloke.
Yeah onya mate.

Maybe Carlton have been shit this century because the club vacillates between denial and panic at the present situation, instead of calmly adhering to a medium-long term plan?

Interesting also that every premier on that list bar West Coast have reaped the benefits of FS/academy/priority/manipulated FA compo picks - in some cases a massive competitive advantage.

On that point, we effectively have two first rounders this year out of the starting gate. If we're playing with Hawthorn comparisons there's no reason we can't replace the always injured crowd with a mix of gun rookies and bargain needs selections, without losing any quality from the top end. No need to slash and burn.

EDIT: WCE have received priority picks as well!

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Standard?

Not according to accepted (National Library of Medicine) medical research.

Splenic Lacerations and Return to Play: Case Report of 2 Professional Hockey Players - PMC

Several sports medicine reviews have highlighted a 3- to 6-month time frame for return to play after splenic lacerations. These reviews are based on several well-defined grading scales for splenic injury based on computed tomography (CT). None of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

At this point, it is unusual that he has no timeline.

I’ve not read the study, but couple factors here

He almost lost his spleen, it wasn’t a laceration - it was a rupture to the highest degree you can suffer without losing it

Secondly, he was also opened up again to have his appendix removed just weeks afterward - which would compound the trauma

 

[Beyond Blue]

Still think Melbourne would laugh at us with even that proposal

Yeah you are probably right. More likely want 2 x first plus Cerra.

This is a joke right?
We’d give him away for free IF we had a replacement and if the other club takes on whatever average salary we signed him up for. Absolute disaster move resigning him given the calibre of rucks on the move each year. Sure his 2023 form was acceptable, crash n bash n tackle. The drop off this year is frightening and he’s a shell of a player (sorry pitto, know you’re a great bloke) but you’ve laid 1 tackle over the last three weeks, any time he takes a mark it’s a miracle, and I haven’t even touched on his mobility.

Rightly or wrongly Ruckmen have value. Its somewhat irrational - clubs lose their shit at the thought of not having a ruckman - we’d get something in return for him.

 

[Wickzki]

He almost lost his spleen, it wasn’t a laceration - it was a rupture to the highest degree you can suffer without losing it

If this is true it's contrary to the AFL's media reports which have labeled it a laceration.

The report suggests it was the lung that ruptured (a similar recovery time)

Petracca suffers broken ribs, lacerated spleen, punctured lung

Demons superstar to be sidelined after painful collision with Magpies skipper in King's Birthday loss

www.afl.com.au

I don't know enough about the appendix removal to comment.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

If this is true it's contrary to the AFL's media reports which have labeled it a laceration.

The report suggests it was the lung that ruptured (a similar recovery time)

Petracca suffers broken ribs, lacerated spleen, punctured lung

Demons superstar to be sidelined after painful collision with Magpies skipper in King's Birthday loss

www.afl.com.au

I don't know enough about the appendix removal to comment.

To be honest I’m a layman with an interest in these things, I’ll need to read the study (I am genuinely interested) because otherwise I’ll just be talking out of my ass

But my initial thoughts based on nothing over than anecdotes of other athletes I know of that have injured their spleens with varying severities

I’ll get back to you, good chat

 

[goreds]

I'd prefer to hope that the staff figure out a way to reduce reliance on star power and not increase it

I think the thoughts on ‘star power’ on this board is wildly overrated…

We have 2 stars!

 

[goreds]

Our hope should be improving the list by getting rid of those not up to it and adding pace, not about chasing another $1M+ player.

100% agree: you start the list and I will add to it, don’t hold back!

 

[jj1978]

So many questions and little answers.

Is it game plan

Is it list

Is it HP

Is it too many injury prones

Is it coach/assistants

All footy department stuff

Off field club is doing magnificently!

Is it game plan - Yes, there isn't one the players understand fully when layers applied

Is it list - Yes, injury prone, skill execution, pace

Is it HP - Yes, too much of a coincidence the last 3 years of leading the league in injuries

Is it too many injury prones - Yes, Marchbank-McGovern-Martin-Cunningham-Williams-Fantasia-S.Durdin, as the perennially injured so that's 1/6th of the list. Then throw in players such as Saad, Cerra, Walsh, Docherty, SoS, C.Durdin, Motlop, Fogarty, Hewett who are going to have to be "maintained" for the remainder of their careers with ongoing injury concerns and certain fragilities. Then throw in Acres (shoulder), Weitering (Calves), TDK (various), Pitto (various) who all tend to get an impactful injury at least once or twice a season (Acres does play through it though but currently he's lame with his shoulder).

Is it coach/assistants - At the moment each line coach is failing miserably (J.Russell, Hammil, Clarke) as there is no synch between the lines. Clarke is lucky he has Cripps to take the gloss off how out of tune our midfield is at linking between lines, kicking goals/scores, defending. Backline has no idea how to kick out of D50 and leave holes everywhere so that's largely on Hammil. Russell hit the jackpot with 2 Coleman medallists and even though we are top 2 for scores for it masks how much of a schemozzle our forward positioning and movements are (regardless whether Charlie has had a bad ankle all season). And to Voss - after 70 games of hearing the same rhetoric and not seeing value from it, human nature dictates people get tired/confused/disillusioned, you spun or permitted that things be spun a little different late last year and got a response and now seems you've reverted back this year to the other ways (stubborness?) and self help catch phrases. Hansen our tactics have been all over the shop and I don't see our players know what these tactics are at times, other than that blue sign with the power button.