List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[Soapy V]

So 6 cut this year.
Not sure it's so practical to move any of those contracted players this year, but we'll probably move more on at the end of next year.

You are still carrying a lot of players that struggle to get through a season plus some more kids who probably won't be ready in 2025. Like I said, not easy

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Not a bad exercise to look into.

2020 - Phillips (NM), Grainger-Barras (HAW), Reid (ESS), Pedlar (ADE), Stone (GWS), Angwin (GWS), Macrae (COL), Laurie (MEL), McInnes (COL)
2021 - Erasmus (FRE), Sinn (PA), Hobbs (ESS), Aleer (GWS), Sheldrick (SYD)
2022 - Tsatas (ESS), Phillipou (STK), Busslinger (WB), Jefferson (MEL), Konstanty (SYD), Rowston (GWS), Allan (COL)

Of that lot, I think there are a handful who might suit our needs and have the required skills.

Grainger-Barrass, Reid or Jed Busslinger for a KPD.
Aleer for an intercepting CHB.
Sinn for a rebounding HBF.
Stone for a third tall forward (maybe not required after last weekend...).
Phillipou for a HHF/mid rotation.
Konstanty for a goal sneak forward pocket.
Allan for a genuine three-line utility.

The rest are mostly slow/average paced midfielders, or general/small forwards who don't offer the speed we need as a point of difference.

Phillipou is St Kilda's golden child.

Sheldrick got injured this year but was anticipated to break into Sydney's midfield in pre-season.

Aleer I think is on the cusp of brekaing into GWS's KPD stocks, particularly with Haynes leaving.

I think Busslinger is quite highly regarded.

 

[Aphrodite]

Cal Twomey reporting that Petracca has not met with any clubs at this stage.

So everyone jumping up down with us being erroneously linked to him should cool their jets.

 

[MITSUHIRATO]

Going to need to be serious list discussions around our list and injuries at years end

We know Cuningham Martin & Marchbank are done.

How many of names like Fogarty Cerra McGovern Saad Williams Docherty Mirkov Fantasia M.Carroll S.Durdin C.Durdin can we keep carrying? All have missed a lot of football in their careers

Not all are soft tissue and many unlucky but there are players that just seem have bodies that can't handle the physicality. We also have older players that are sustaining multipe soft tissue injuries. They rarely get better

You can have a few but at some stage you need to make decisions and having 8 plus players a week unavailable virtually eliminates your flag chances

If we think about culling a workhorse in Lachie Fogarty over “durability” concerns that stem from two collision injuries such as a fractured wrist and a collarbone … we have rocks in our head.

He’s firmly planted in our 22 and was just unlucky with both injuries being in the wrong place at the wrong time IMO.

 

[Stamos]

Agresta had Austin's role (certainly the job title) under Silvagni.

Song made a big song and dance about Austin being primarily a number cruncher when we signed him.

It was a different structure then though.
Agresta was 'List Manager', with SOS as General Manager of List Managment and Strategy above him.

Austin came in as Head of List Management, and Agresta moved to National Recruiting Manager.

 

[Stamos]

He hasn't just been the NRM with us though. He was the list manager.

Yes, until Austin came in and the department was restructured during Covid.

 

[Soapy V]

If we think about culling a workhorse in Lachie Fogarty over “durability” concerns that stem from two collision injuries such as a fractured wrist and a collarbone … we have rocks in our head.

He’s firmly planted in our 22 and was just unlucky with both injuries being in the wrong place at the wrong time IMO.

Missed 2 years with a back injury as well. Played 69 games in 7 seasons

 

[BlueJet]

According to his own LinkedIn

"List manager - Feb 2018 to June 2020"

"National Recruiting Manager - June 2020 to present."

At the very least it is fair to posit that those opposition players who joined us in 2021 were well advanced with their targeting under Agresta's list management to June of 2020.

Of course, I'm interested in the overall responsibility of each though as I feel titles can be reasonably interchangeable.
My overall perspective is that it's doubtful that Agresta commits to a recruit without an Austin/SOS nod of approval

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Yes, you're right, he's a gun who has elite size, speed, agility skills for a big man and that's what we should focus on, not on what position someone may think he is pigeoned holed to. I have no doubt he could play anywhere on the ground where a tall with his ability and skills is required. Talls are still required in this brave new world, aren't they?

They are, but we may have a surplus - Curnow, McKay, TDK & Pitto, who we've always struggled to fit in the one side.

In a perfect, Carlton world there would be no injuries to our taller forwards during the year but supposing Curnow suffers a major injury and is unavailable for most of the year who have we got to throw down there after we have traded Harry out for a non-tall, Lemmey?

That's up to List Management, if we were to trade McKay, I'd want to use the currency in return to increase our depth in that, and other areas. I also mentioned if we were to trade him, I think we'd get by with a competent workhorse-like KPF, so I would definitely want a tall to be picked up somewhere. If we're going to have McKay on big money on our books as insurance if Curnow goes down, then I'm not sure that's good business.

And, people have been screaming now for weeks that we need a KPD to help Weiters and if we no longer need a KPF (according to some), then it seems likely that a player with Harry's skills could do the job more than adequately (see his brother).

I'd have no issue with this whatsoever. In fact, I'd rather it v trading him. But again, that's an expensive wage for a project KPD. The coaches always put Curnow behind the ball if anything, though - so I don't think that's something they'd consider.

Also, only last week many of us were screaming about how poor Pitto was and that we need another ruck to help Tdk, well I wonder who we have on our list that could possibly fill in there, as Tdk's partner? Some would suggest O'keefe, but as with Pitto, has anyone seen him taking contested pack marks or even given hints he could do so when he matures? (yes, I do realise he's young and will improve his game!).

Pitto is good. In the right system he's a very decent AFL ruck - he gets thrown off when he has to share with TDK and is unfortunately prone to a howler of a game every few weeks, but I think he could share with TDK if TDK had more space to operate & wreak havoc in the fwd line, which he could if some space freed up down there.

Instead of being 'blinded' by this one-dimensional thinking (that he's just a tall KPF, and therefore he's expendable because we already have one in Curnow), see what attributes he has that make him a unique talent that we're so lucky to have. Players with limited skills may be suited to one role on the ground, but he's not one of those.

We don't play him in any other roles though - he's a KPF who has stayed there until pinch hitting a bit in the ruck this year. We're paying him big money to be a big money KPF. It's not like we haven't had injuries force us to experiment with him either, has it happened?

I've always hated the best 22 scenarios and the positions players are stereotyped to ... just fantasy stuff. In the real world you have to adapt to your injury list, form and the opposition you are playing and be prepared to switch players around ... but you have to have talented players who can be switched ... talented players, like Harry.

The coaches have never switched Harry around. You're basing your argument of what we could do with him rather than what we've been doing with him for 9 years.

So, no I just don't get it. We picked him high in draft and worked with him many years to get him to the level he's now capable of playing at, and now ... we should trade him? Just insane!

You're doing that BigFooty thing when someone says 'wonder what we could get for player x' then posters pile on and say 'omg you think we should trade them?!?!' then 10 pages of piling on occurs. I'm not saying we should trade him, just that I'm open to the idea if it were to be entertained.

He's good, but I actually think he's capable of more. He's an absolute monster in height, quick as anyone else, had a beautiful natural kick (until he got in his own head), huge tank. Did his best work when Curnow went down (won the Coleman), now is our #2 fwd and still very handy; but just really have my doubts he will reach his potential playing his current role with us.

I think it's fair to say we need to round out our squad of 30, our top line is elite but it does drop off a bit, and if we had to trade a star to bring in 2-3 good players, he's the one I would look at, because he'd maximize our return the most and I reckon we can develop a reliable (maybe better) game plan without him.

 

[Stamos]

Of course, I'm interested in the overall responsibility of each though as I feel titles can be reasonably interchangeable.
My overall perspective is that it's doubtful that Agresta commits to a recruit without an Austin/SOS nod of approval

It really doesn't help that in the AFL, 'National Recruiting Manager' means 'in charge of drafting, not recruiting players from other clubs'.

And then clubs have different structures, and those structures change, as they did with us when SOS left and Austin came in.

But yes, even if the recruitment of Williams and Saad was driven by Agresta, there is no way that it wasn't Austin making the final call after being in charge for 9 months.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Missed 2 years with a back injury as well. Played 69 games in 7 seasons

 

[DollarsandSense]

He'd also be our best kick playing off HB. I cant see why you'd move him from his best position.

I'd love to see him come in and a shift for the Moo Cow into the Midfield...

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I’m actually a fan of the more mobile and less predictable forward line we saw on the weekend. Bombing it in kills me.

Clearly we have 2 big stars but I really like Kemp forward and Moir did some nice things for his limited time.

I think we play Charlie and Harry half forward roaming around the 40-70 metres out zone and play Kemp as the full forward. Kemp love to run and jump and if our 2 big boys were creating havoc away from full forward, it really opens up our forward line.

If Charlie loves to wrestle, sure do it not near where the ball can be killed over the boundary or as a behind.

Kemp as a full forward with the 2 best opposition defenders on Harry and Charlie gives us a very different forward line and more lethal imo.

 

[DangerousD]

If we think about culling a workhorse in Lachie Fogarty over “durability” concerns that stem from two collision injuries such as a fractured wrist and a collarbone … we have rocks in our head.

He’s firmly planted in our 22 and was just unlucky with both injuries being in the wrong place at the wrong time IMO.

This is Fogarty 10th season of AFL football and he’s played 70 games, concerns over his durability are not based on this year alone.

That’s less game per year than Jack Martin

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I’m actually a fan of the more mobile and less predictable forward line we saw on the weekend. Bombing it in kills me.

Clearly we have 2 big stars but I really like Kemp forward and Moir did some nice things for his limited time.

I think we play Charlie and Harry half forward roaming around the 40-70 metres out zone and play Kemp as the full forward. Kemp love to run and jump and if our 2 big boys were creating havoc away from full forward, it really opens up our forward line.

If Charlie loves to wrestle, sure do it not near where the ball can be killed over the boundary or as a behind.

Kemp as a full forward with the 2 best opposition defenders on Harry and Charlie gives us a very different forward line and more lethal imo.

Kemp's played 1 game vs one of the most insipid eagles outfits of this generation, I wouldn't be assigning him the title of our new Full Forward just yet

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Can add to this that a current listed Carlton player was "trying" to help get Dan across. No prizes for guessing who and not really worth passing along until now because the amount of players who would be trying to get anothrr player onto their team would end up with every player on the one list.

Further, the day after I saw this Port came out with the "we want two first round draft picks" leak to the media and my reaction was to think "well that's too rich for us."

But where there's smoke...

Yeah we're not giving up 2 first round picks lol.

He'd definitely be nice to have but there are other more pressing needs imo.

Port can keep him for that asking price.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

According to his own LinkedIn

"List manager - Feb 2018 to June 2020"

"National Recruiting Manager - June 2020 to present."

At the very least it is fair to posit that those opposition players who joined us in 2021 were well advanced with their targeting under Agresta's list management to June of 2020.

And I recall reading from one of our ITK's that our previous National Recruiting Manager, Paul Brodie, had a fear of flying and wouldn't board a plane. I don't know how you could be effective in that role if you couldn't move freely from state to state.

Possibly one of the reasons behind the restructure - who knows, except those within the 4 walls.

I agree though that the spotlight should be on them - if there is a spotlight. It's just too hard to judge many of these young players so early into their careers.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Could we target Noah Balta

21

Noah Balta

Age

26

Ht

194cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.9

4star

MG

236.3

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

5.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.3

1star

MG

233.0

4star

D

7.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

217.4

4star

?

 

[Coona Blues]

Could we target Noah Balta?

Tigers losing Bolton, Rioli and Baker, thinking they won’t part with their best young big man.

 

[macky99]

Going to need to be serious list discussions around our list and injuries at years end

We know Cuningham Martin & Marchbank are done.

How many of names like Fogarty Cerra McGovern Saad Williams Docherty Mirkov Fantasia M.Carroll S.Durdin C.Durdin can we keep carrying? All have missed a lot of football in their careers

Not all are soft tissue and many unlucky but there are players that just seem have bodies that can't handle the physicality. We also have older players that are sustaining multipe soft tissue injuries. They rarely get better

You can have a few but at some stage you need to make decisions and having 8 plus players a week unavailable virtually eliminates your flag chances

Agree totally until we can get a more durable & healthy list we are not going to be a premiership team, aside from Martin/Marchbank/Cunningham/S Durdin all gone significant question marks on Williams & McGovern.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Tigers losing Bolton, Rioli and Baker, thinking they won’t part with their best young big man.

They might not want to lose him, but he might want to leave...

Tigers are a sinking ship, whereas with us, he would slot right in and have a shot at another flag.

 

[bradfisher14]

I’m actually a fan of the more mobile and less predictable forward line we saw on the weekend. Bombing it in kills me.

Clearly we have 2 big stars but I really like Kemp forward and Moir did some nice things for his limited time.

I think we play Charlie and Harry half forward roaming around the 40-70 metres out zone and play Kemp as the full forward. Kemp love to run and jump and if our 2 big boys were creating havoc away from full forward, it really opens up our forward line.

If Charlie loves to wrestle, sure do it not near where the ball can be killed over the boundary or as a behind.

Kemp as a full forward with the 2 best opposition defenders on Harry and Charlie gives us a very different forward line and more lethal imo.

Agreed.

I think the method was more important than the personnel on Sunday though. Our players have to lower the eyes on a more consistent basis. If we had Charlie and Harry receiving that sort of delivery against the Eagles we would've kicked 200+.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Could we target Noah Balta?

Rather go with an elite kicking, fast mid/FWD, 2x KPD's, plus the Campo's in the draft, then Haynes and Duffy.
We've already got too much cash tied up in our top end talent.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Kemp's played 1 game vs one of the most insipid eagles outfits of this generation, I wouldn't be assigning him the title of our new Full Forward just yet

I know what he has done. Doesn’t make my thoughts wrong though does it

 

[Manhattanite]

If we think about culling a workhorse in Lachie Fogarty over “durability” concerns that stem from two collision injuries such as a fractured wrist and a collarbone … we have rocks in our head.

He’s firmly planted in our 22 and was just unlucky with both injuries being in the wrong place at the wrong time IMO.

“Being in the wrong place at the wrong time” is a funny way of saying “being hard at the ball all the time regardless of personal injury”

He doesn’t give an inch and unfortunately that’s led to some serious injuries but I’m sure Voss and the team love him and the way he goes about it - the pressure he applies has led to many many goals for us - I really doubt we would consider not extending him next time he’s up for renewal as he seems to be over his back issues and whatever else he had




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