List Mgmt. 2024 List Mgmt

[CursingFijian]

Pick 6 is the pick of death and 40 is the sweet spot.

Luke Parker was a pick 40. It has been writ. Get him in Sos.

 

[CursingFijian]

They’re all 200 or likely, bolded are players who we flipped or left.

In the parlance, Fisher has also since been flipped.

Too soon?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Luke Parker was a pick 40. It has been writ. Get him in Sos.

Last year, with Academy Players, the sweet spot moved out to 50 .

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Last year, with Academy Players, the sweet spot moved out to 50 .

Last year the sweet spot was in the dormitory of the Gold Coast Academy.

 

[gringo2011]

Last year the sweet spot was in the dormitory of the Gold Coast Academy.

They have another top 10 pick this year and Lions get Ashcroft's other boy who looks like he'll go at pick 3.

 

[CursingFijian]

Been a very interesting read through the last couple of pages, with some great work by joydivision22 and phantom13.

I frequently hear industry commenters saying the Saints need to get creative at the draft. But how else, besides trying to generate a higher number of top 5 draft picks can we actually do that?

What other levers do we have to pull?

The Academy is really a toothless tiger nowadays with the inability to match any selection inside pick 40. It effectively means we can only effectively develop our own pick 3 talent.

We have signalled non-AFL listed players across the country with our intention to draft one player every year from Sandringham. It's essentially an open invitation to anyone who believes in themselves to come and work hard right under the nose a club that has one golden ticket to give away each year. Will it work? Dunno, but it's creative.

The Max Benier situation is also interesting, even if it doesn't pan out. But someone has identified potential in the lower leagues and has put them in the window, just a couple of weeks before the shop doors open. Is it subterfuge? Are we trying to distract prying eyes?

We clearly have eyes in the Irish market as evidenced by O'Connell. We've shopped in the States previously with Jason Holmes

Jason Holmes

Age

34

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

4.4

1star

K

1.2

1star

HB

3.2

3star

CL

1.8

4star

HO

26.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

4.4

1star

K

1.2

1star

HB

3.2

3star

CL

1.8

4star

HO

26.8

5star

. For a circa 2000 budget of $100,000 I guarantee I could pull some 200cm Sandringham level ruck/key position potential out of Fiji. Do we expand our horizons so to speak?

Anybody got any other ideas?

 

[CursingFijian]

They have another top 10 pick this year and Lions get Ashcroft's other boy who looks like he'll go at pick 3.

And the Camporeale twins.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Parker is 31yo and has another year left on his contract, he has previously been a resilient player so could play for another 2 or 3 years. As long as Sydney dont want too much for him he would be a good addition to our midfield.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Last year the sweet spot was in the dormitory of the Gold Coast Academy.

So will next year they expect to have 5 top 30 academy players available, hopefully the new academy rules come in this year.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

Been a very interesting read through the last couple of pages, with some great work by joydivision22 and phantom13.

I frequently hear industry commenters saying the Saints need to get creative at the draft. But how else, besides trying to generate a higher number of top 5 draft picks can we actually do that?

What other levers do we have to pull?

The Academy is really a toothless tiger nowadays with the inability to match any selection inside pick 40. It effectively means we can only effectively develop our own pick 3 talent.

We have signalled non-AFL listed players across the country with our intention to draft one player every year from Sandringham. It's essentially an open invitation to anyone who believes in themselves to come and work hard right under the nose a club that has one golden ticket to give away each year. Will it work? Dunno, but it's creative.

The Max Benier situation is also interesting, even if it doesn't pan out. But someone has identified potential in the lower leagues and has put them in the window, just a couple of weeks before the shop doors open. Is it subterfuge? Are we trying to distract prying eyes?

We clearly have eyes in the Irish market as evidenced by O'Connell. We've shopped in the States previously with Jason Holmes. For a circa 2000 budget of $100,000 I guarantee I could pull some 200cm Sandringham level ruck/key position potential out of Fiji. Do we expand our horizons so to speak?

Anybody got any other ideas?

NZ rugby players / juniors.

 

[gringo2011]

And the Camporeale twins.

They aren't going to be as high as the 2 Queensland boys at least.

 

[CursingFijian]

NZ rugby players.

 

[CursingFijian]

They aren't going to be as high as the 2 Queensland boys at least.

No. But ESPN had them power ranked at 14 & 19, which is a decent free hit in it's own right even without the younger Ashcroft.

 

[gringo2011]

Been a very interesting read through the last couple of pages, with some great work by joydivision22 and phantom13.

I frequently hear industry commenters saying the Saints need to get creative at the draft. But how else, besides trying to generate a higher number of top 5 draft picks can we actually do that?

What other levers do we have to pull?

The Academy is really a toothless tiger nowadays with the inability to match any selection inside pick 40. It effectively means we can only effectively develop our own pick 3 talent.

We have signalled non-AFL listed players across the country with our intention to draft one player every year from Sandringham. It's essentially an open invitation to anyone who believes in themselves to come and work hard right under the nose a club that has one golden ticket to give away each year. Will it work? Dunno, but it's creative.

The Max Benier situation is also interesting, even if it doesn't pan out. But someone has identified potential in the lower leagues and has put them in the window, just a couple of weeks before the shop doors open. Is it subterfuge? Are we trying to distract prying eyes?

We clearly have eyes in the Irish market as evidenced by O'Connell. We've shopped in the States previously with Jason Holmes. For a circa 2000 budget of $100,000 I guarantee I could pull some 200cm Sandringham level ruck/key position potential out of Fiji. Do we expand our horizons so to speak?

Anybody got any other ideas?

The number one way to improve your chances is to nail the picks you do have. We are hitting the right types in the last couple of drafts. Instead of taking Parker, Hind, Highmore types that are ready made players we are taking high reward kids.

Hotton was a potential top 10 pick, Shoenmaker was too. Keeler on pure talent was a great get but with a few question marks. Garcia and Hastie both have really high potential.

Not all are going to make it but if you get two of the kids form each draft and you nail the first round pick you have, it can make you jump quickly.

Dalrymple is the most important person at the club.

 

[gringo2011]

No. But ESPN had them power ranked at 14 & 19, which is a decent free hit in it's own right even without the younger Ashcroft.

They are Carlton though.

 

[phantom13]

Been a very interesting read through the last couple of pages, with some great work by joydivision22 and phantom13.

I frequently hear industry commenters saying the Saints need to get creative at the draft. But how else, besides trying to generate a higher number of top 5 draft picks can we actually do that?

What other levers do we have to pull?

The Academy is really a toothless tiger nowadays with the inability to match any selection inside pick 40. It effectively means we can only effectively develop our own pick 3 talent.

We have signalled non-AFL listed players across the country with our intention to draft one player every year from Sandringham. It's essentially an open invitation to anyone who believes in themselves to come and work hard right under the nose a club that has one golden ticket to give away each year. Will it work? Dunno, but it's creative.

The Max Benier situation is also interesting, even if it doesn't pan out. But someone has identified potential in the lower leagues and has put them in the window, just a couple of weeks before the shop doors open. Is it subterfuge? Are we trying to distract prying eyes?

We clearly have eyes in the Irish market as evidenced by O'Connell. We've shopped in the States previously with Jason Holmes. For a circa 2000 budget of $100,000 I guarantee I could pull some 200cm Sandringham level ruck/key position potential out of Fiji. Do we expand our horizons so to speak?

Anybody got any other ideas?

I think the suggestion is always to look outside the pathways leagues ala Tom Stewart for Geelong.

The problem is we did that and actually have always been pretty handy in that space. Currently with Wilkie, Camma and Sincs. Where weve cooked it isnt in the creative its in the mundane.

If you take our current 22 and add Bont, Trac and Naughton (or really even just one of them) noting that none of the guys we took instead of them are still on our list and this team looks way way different.

Our issue isnt creativity and finding gems, its getting the good picks right. The last time we really did that we had a huge finals tilt and even in that if we had Hodge or Judd instead of ball were probably two flags richer.

The margins are tiny in the early picks.

 

[CursingFijian]

They are Carlton though.

Oh.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So will next year they expect to have 5 top 30 academy players available, hopefully the new academy rules come in this year.

Academy rules are one of the ways to obtain an early draft pick.
Suns would rationally want to trade out of the first round, but they will take the best bid, which uses up your later picks.
But if we could get the Suns first round pick, we could then try to flog trade 2 first rounders for a single better first rounder.

But yeah, i'd rather the bullshit just stop.
But it will mean the end of trading junk picks for better picks.

 

[phantom13]

Just on the draft train, jeeeez it makes for some absolutely horrendous reading.

Since the 2014 draft weven gone

2014
1- McCartin (available around this pick Trac, Brayshaw, DeGoey,
21- Hugh Goddard

45

Hugh Goddard

Age

27

Ht

198cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.5

2star

K

3.5

1star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.9

3star

T

1.1

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.6

4star

K

4.6

2star

HB

9.0

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

(availabel Steele, McLean, Maynard, Miller, Neale Bullen)
22- Dan McKenzie
41- Jack Lonie (McGovern, Daniel, Dale, Langdon, Andrews)

2015
18- Gresham (Burton, McKay, Keays, Dunkley)
40- White (Flynn, Harwick, Williams)
49- Rice (Jordan Dawson

12

Jordan Dawson

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

4star

CL

0.6

3star

D

15.7

4star

K

10.9

4star

HB

4.9

3star

M

2.9

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

D

11.8

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.6

3star

)

2016
25 - Long (Parfitt, Lipinski, Bolton, Drew, Darcy)
39 - Battle (Im calling this a genuine win so not looking)
56 - Ed Phillips (Lewis, Waterman)

2017
7 - Clark (Naughton, Fogarty, Bailey, Richards, Starcevich, Oscar Allen

12

Oscar Allen

Age

25

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.2

4star

, Kelly, Balta, Ryan, Taylor, TDK, Fritsch)
8 - Coffield
35- Clavarino (Petty, Pettrucelle, Ballard, Worpel)
46 - Paton (another win)

2018
4 - King (no issues here, there is better around but i still like Max)
41 - Bytel (McInerny,
47 - Parker (Scott, Schultz, Idun)
54 - Hind
67 - Young

Out of those 5 drafts and 19 picks weve only gotten value from 6 of them. Thats woeful.

 

[luca77]

Okay, since we’ve reached a mutually acceptable contentment on what we need to do, how do we get a top 5 pick?

In order from easiest to hardest. Just some ideas. I haven’t fully considered damage to club or fan base obvs as it is difficult to quantify.

1. Finish bottom 5

Damage is minimal as you have to assume we aren’t doing it on purpose so would happen anyway. As one poster said, May as well lean into and pump early games into kids.

2. Trade future picks into this year

Like WB did to draft Sanders, which I thought was a sensational move. Someone at the kennel knows what’s up and went and just bought a 300 gamer with some magic bean end of first rd picks.

I loved our effort to try and move from 9 to 3 with Clark. I know you’ll say oh well we would’ve missed out on Phillipou or we would’ve drafted Po anyway at 3 but maybe Sheezel or Wardlaw would’ve been better.

3. Free Agency compo for players in prime

Obvious one is Battle. You’d only not match if it generated pick 5. Otherwise keep him.

4. Trade other players of value in contract

Would anyone be interested in Steele for a top pick? North would certainly have a look at it. Hes our fearless skip but He’s one more bad injury away from a half back flank and an early retirement. We should’ve traded Armitage when Richmond came knocking and if someone put up a top 5 pick for Jack, I’d do it. Clearly most difficult path.

Marshall would return a top 5 pick but collateral damage would be pretty large. Heath not ready yet but maybe if he shows enough this could be a risk worth taking. Marshall is Herculean at times but ineffectual often in terms of his primary task of feeding mids. Unless he clears it himself with a scrap kick, the ball is going the other way 3x quicker. Again, another desperate option.

Can’t think of any other ways but I’d be going all in for the first 3 ways asap.

sent frm cracked ifon bf.com

With that goal in mind, I don't mind the Steele idea, but if he goes Marshall is skipper for mine.
Also, I know it's a point of contention on here as to whether Marshall is an effective forward or not, but I think IF Heath came on or another ruck came in, Marshall and King would learn to work well in the forward line together and it would make King's life a LOT easier.

Marshall as the 2nd ruck would turn a current disadvantage into an advantage too.

In the unlikely case that Steele goes and Marshall goes forward, we could move on some of our other tall forward options for picks that we could inch up the draft with. Building a forward line around King/Marshall and smalls could really improve our scoring efficiency - assuming one of those big boys is going to bring it to ground. In the event that we need a 3rd forward, Battle could move forward.

By the way I DO appreciate the value of Steele, Hammer, Membrey, Sharman, Hayes etc. But given the topic of discussion is hitting the draft hard to change our current course significantly, I'd consider the above.

Edit: The obvious issue there is that Marshall isn't so young...

 

[MrFoster]

Why St Kilda ruckman isn’t having the clearance impact that his stats suggest

“Once you dig a little bit deeper, there’s a little bit more in it.”

www.sen.com.au

A blind kick forward is always 50/50 at best, whereas a clean hand pass to an outside runner will at least provide an inside 50 entry to the advantage of a forward (if executed properly)

That’s why Jackson grabs it out of the ruck, then hand pass it to one of his midfielders running past rather than blazing away. It’s like setting up your team for a better scoring opportunity rather than throwing the ball from half court in basketball (count as a clearance / forward entry but extremely low % if you ask me)

Those dump kicks that worked in our favour, well they are called luck and cannot repeated consistently.. We need a repeatable method rather than relying on luck (long bomb, dump kicks) / others stuffing up (effort based pressure game)

 

[austinnn]

Why St Kilda ruckman isn’t having the clearance impact that his stats suggest

“Once you dig a little bit deeper, there’s a little bit more in it.”

www.sen.com.au

A blind kick forward is always 50/50 at best, whereas a clean hand pass to an outside runner will at least provide an inside 50 entry to the advantage of a forward (if executed properly)

That’s why Jackson grabs it out of the ruck, then hand pass it to one of his midfielders running past rather than blazing away. It’s like setting up your team for a better scoring opportunity rather than throwing the ball from half court in basketball (count as a clearance / forward entry but extremely low % if you ask me)

Those dump kicks that worked in our favour, well they are called luck and cannot repeated consistently.. We need a repeatable method rather than relying on luck (long bomb, dump kicks) / others stuffing up (effort based pressure game)

The question is, is this Marshall deciding to do this, or is the plan from upstairs?

It's shithouse whatever it is. If it's all part of the plan, you'd want to tweak that plan quite a bit. It's losing us games.

 

[BrutThough]

The question is, is this Marshall deciding to do this, or is the plan from upstairs?

It's shithouse whatever it is. If it's all part of the plan, you'd want to tweak that plan quite a bit. It's losing us games.

We also kicked at least 2 goals last week directly from him taking it out of the ruck. And considering we only scored 8 goals for the match, that's a significant return.

 

[phantom13]

We also kicked at least 2 goals last week directly from him taking it out of the ruck. And considering we only scored 8 goals for the match, that's a significant return.

Would we have kicked more with a clean stoppage exit though? Cant know so its a bit of a false equivalence exercise.

Theres a time and place, deep F50 entries are good so throw ins and ball ups inside 70 it makes sense, elsewhere, way way less.

 

[The Jack]

Why St Kilda ruckman isn’t having the clearance impact that his stats suggest

“Once you dig a little bit deeper, there’s a little bit more in it.”

www.sen.com.au

A blind kick forward is always 50/50 at best, whereas a clean hand pass to an outside runner will at least provide an inside 50 entry to the advantage of a forward (if executed properly)

That’s why Jackson grabs it out of the ruck, then hand pass it to one of his midfielders running past rather than blazing away. It’s like setting up your team for a better scoring opportunity rather than throwing the ball from half court in basketball (count as a clearance / forward entry but extremely low % if you ask me)

Those dump kicks that worked in our favour, well they are called luck and cannot repeated consistently.. We need a repeatable method rather than relying on luck (long bomb, dump kicks) / others stuffing up (effort based pressure game)

This is the same clown, using the same system, that ranked Nick Daicos's 41 disposal, 14 clearance game against the Crows on the weekend as only the 21st best player on the ground. Got the 10 coaches votes btw. Roma also got coaches votes on the weekend.

Champion Data. Give me a spell.