VFL 2024 - Reserves Game Day discussion Rnds 2 - 21 (Merged threads)

[JJBagger]

From people that know him and are from the town and have actually seen him his whole life. Not just clips from the under age and extrapolate their agendas and nonsense

If you’re talking local junior footy, 99% of players that make the AFL played midfield as a kid. They are generally the most skilled and best players in their teams, so coaches put them where they’ll get the ball the most. I played junior footy with, and against, several players that play positions that are not in the midfield in the AFL currently. And guess what? Every single one was a midfielder in their junior sides.

Thats part of the beauty of playing rep footy (having played in and been a part of multiple junior representative teams), you are able to use certain skills you have in different positions, and you develop as a player. Kempy was clearly someone who found his skill set best utilised as a key position defender

 

[Arr0w]

Laverde was a mid in his junior years, and plenty of reasons why he is a defender now, those same reasons apply to Kemp

 

[ferrisb]

Kemp feels he’s a midfielder having to play as a defender

I feel I'm a ruckman having to live life as a small forward...

 

[KennyHuntersBlues]

I feel I'm a ruckman having to live life as a small forward...

Is that you Corey Durdin ?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

If you’re talking local junior footy, 99% of players that make the AFL played midfield as a kid. They are generally the most skilled and best players in their teams, so coaches put them where they’ll get the ball the most. I played junior footy with, and against, several players that play positions that are not in the midfield in the AFL currently. And guess what? Every single one was a midfielder in their junior sides.

Thats part of the beauty of playing rep footy (having played in and been a part of multiple junior representative teams), you are able to use certain skills you have in different positions, and you develop as a player. Kempy was clearly someone who found his skill set best utilised as a key position defender

So your argument is that you don't know kempy at all. Haven't seen him play and think you know better than the coaches who coached him growing up, him and some of the AFL scouts who tagged him for midfield too ? Ok. Good on ya. It's ok that he could be a great defender. It's also ok that he has the skillset and desire suited to playing in the middle too.

 

[JJBagger]

So your argument is that you don't know kempy at all. Haven't seen him play and think you know better than the coaches who coached him growing up, him and some of the AFL scouts who tagged him for midfield too ? Ok. Good on ya. It's ok that he could be a great defender. It's also ok that he has the skillset and desire suited to playing in the middle too.

Not saying that mate. You missed my point and made it personal, so I’ll congratulate you on that. I’m just explaining the process. If he had a skill set that was Judd or Diesel like, I would potentially agree. But just because a junior coach says he’s a midfielder, doesn’t mean he’s a mid at AFL level. Liam Duggan dominated junior level as a midfielder, he would get eaten alive as a full time mid in the AFL. His best attributes are his reading of the play, decision making, and ball use, therefore, he’s best utilised as a half back flanker

 

[Jimmae]

Jimmae, we’re going to have to agree to disagree on Akuei. This is the first game in forever where he marked cleanly and was first touch (mostly). The constant fumbling wasn’t there. As a forward, I see him running the wrong patterns and dropping contested marks.

I think the end is nigh for Akuei anyway and so the club might feel they’d be doing him a disservice if they suddenly changed the position he’s been training in for a couple of years. That is, being a defender is the best chance he has (in their mind) of getting a new contract.

Have you seen the way we instruct our forwards to run at AFL level? 18 opposition players plus the 2 million people watching on know where we're sending the ball.

Then our small forwards and the opposition defenders take turns making a ring around the contest. Akuei will burn most opponents on a lead up to the wing and out-leap the rest. Use him like that, then he can grab a few marks in the F50 as the defence inevitably loosens up.

I don't think he'll last, but I'd love to see some players playing at their strengths, and I'd like players from our Next Gen Academy to speak positively about the Club in their post-career due to us actually being competent as a footballing organisation.

With Kemp, I agree with you. I’d love to see them be bold and give it a crack. Let him loose at the centre bounce. But they’re not going to. They see him as a KPD and so they need him to develop as such. And the reality is he’s u likely to get a game as a mid.

The reality is our midfield is extremely one-paced and lacks players who can do something truly elite by foot. Cerra comes close, but his foot skills fall apart against stronger sides unless he's close to 100%.

Kemp offers something very different to what we're used to seeing, and should be at least getting a chance in the VFL when he's there. The lack of experimentation with him is absurd and looks far more like a bitter struggle than the typical process we see with player development.

From people that know him and are from the town and have actually seen him his whole life. Not just clips from the under age and extrapolate their agendas and nonsense

And from the player himself in his draft interviews.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

He’s been a defender his entire life a part from a couple of games where he was chucked into the midfield and forward lines in his draft year. Where has this myth come from that he’s a midfielder?

Um... whatever happened to the term 'utility'? Maybe not really having a position that perfectly suits him is his problem. I say play him as a tall wingman.

 

[Crippa#9]

we won't have a good small forward until they're allowed to play differently

Interesting observation. Can you elaborate?

FWIW, I reckon our smalls are so bogged down in process and team defence they’ve lost their natural instinct & flare.

 

[DangerousD]

I don’t get to watch any VFL..

Could Binns become the small forward we’ve been looking for?

I dont get why you’ve got the double thumbs down as its a reasonable question, with list spots tight, unless he’s contracted, i dont see Binns getting another season, so why not try it?

 

[Opium]

So your argument is that you don't know kempy at all. Haven't seen him play and think you know better than the coaches who coached him growing up, him and some of the AFL scouts who tagged him for midfield too ? Ok. Good on ya. It's ok that he could be a great defender. It's also ok that he has the skillset and desire suited to playing in the middle too.

Kouta started as a defender. How did that end up?
The point is Voss is not very flexible with positional changes and players don't have the opportunity to develop and grow. If Kemp is wanting to play midfield at the very least he should be given every opportunity to play that position even if it means going back to the reserves. That's called player development and you can uncover hidden talent. I do recall Kemp having a nice sidestep with good speed. Could be an asset and used as a POD.

The last player we had that did that was Liam Jones. Was basically about to be delisted as a forward and saved his career by moving to defence.

Look at essendon and Durham. They Put him into the midfield and has thrived.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Have you seen the way we instruct our forwards to run at AFL level? 18 opposition players plus the 2 million people watching on know where we're sending the ball.

Then our small forwards and the opposition defenders take turns making a ring around the contest. Akuei will burn most opponents on a lead up to the wing and out-leap the rest. Use him like that, then he can grab a few marks in the F50 as the defence inevitably loosens up.

I don't think he'll last, but I'd love to see some players playing at their strengths, and I'd like players from our Next Gen Academy to speak positively about the Club in their post-career due to us actually being competent as a footballing organisation.

The reality is our midfield is extremely one-paced and lacks players who can do something truly elite by foot. Cerra comes close, but his foot skills fall apart against stronger sides unless he's close to 100%.

Kemp offers something very different to what we're used to seeing, and should be at least getting a chance in the VFL when he's there. The lack of experimentation with him is absurd and looks far more like a bitter struggle than the typical process we see with player development.

And from the player himself in his draft interviews.

Can't say I always agree with you Jim, but I reckon you've hit on a few points here.

It seems that big Dom has pretty much been pigeon holed as an intercept defender. If I recall correctly, he played largely as a forward when he first arrived at the club? Either way, his lack of progress suggests he'll be gone at the end of the year - so why not try him in a different role in the time he has left to find out if he can play a role which best suits his athleticism. What have we got to lose by trying something different?

And I totally agree re Kemp. I reckon he would give us a point of difference in the midfield - a combination of size and speed, as well as good use of the ball....AND can pinch hit going forward with his marking strength. Potentially makes him a bit of a weapon.

We've probably had to play him in that mid size defensive role through lack of other options, but I assume we drafted Matt Carroll for a similar purpose as that mid size defender - and have Matt Duffy arriving soon who I also assume would be earmarked for a similar role.

 

[Jimmae]

If I recall correctly, he played largely as a forward when he first arrived at the club?

Was being played at either end, but clubs started taking notice when he started leaping over the top of opposition rucks when thrown into the role. Was seen as a forward/ruck by draft commentators, but more of a raw athletic prospect than anything.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Interesting observation. Can you elaborate?

FWIW, I reckon our smalls are so bogged down in process and team defence they’ve lost their natural instinct & flare.

Stuff I've said around the place. There are small things you see happen against us that don't happen to our opponents - maynards first goal. From 55. Just a free hand pass no small forward putting pressure on from behind. Handball chains out the back of stoppages no small or half forwards pressuring those backwards handballs by the opposition. It's like they've been given small 10m squared boxes they're not allowed to leave which are too deep in the f50.

There's something going on with ground ball gets because with all the F50 tackles we do have, why are we so bad at F50 ground ball gets. The tackles indicate the balls in dispute up there enough the ground ball gets indicate the smalls just aren't ever there. Hewett got smashed a few times holding the ball too long. Partly I think he's playing poorly but partly because the smalls don't stretch the defense. They just bring their crowd near Charlie/Harry/Tdk so when the midfielder exiting the stoppage from a throw in (when it's not 6-6-6) he looks up and sees 'clumps' not something you instinctively want to kick to. So we get overpossession short. Handballs etc as there's no other option. Then opposing smalls go to work because they can collapse down and get an outnumber at the stoppage and we have no out kick because our smalls arent stretching or providing.

 

[Crippa#9]

Stuff I've said around the place. There are small things you see happen against us that don't happen to our opponents - maynards first goal. From 55. Just a free hand pass no small forward putting pressure on from behind. Handball chains out the back of stoppages no small or half forwards pressuring those backwards handballs by the opposition. It's like they've been given small 10m squared boxes they're not allowed to leave which are too deep in the f50.

There's something going on with ground ball gets because with all the F50 tackles we do have, why are we so bad at F50 ground ball gets. The tackles indicate the balls in dispute up there enough the ground ball gets indicate the smalls just aren't ever there. Hewett got smashed a few times holding the ball too long. Partly I think he's playing poorly but partly because the smalls don't stretch the defense. They just bring their crowd near Charlie/Harry/Tdk so when the midfielder exiting the stoppage from a throw in (when it's not 6-6-6) he looks up and sees 'clumps' not something you instinctively want to kick to. So we get overpossession short. Handballs etc as there's no other option. Then opposing smalls go to work because they can collapse down and get an outnumber at the stoppage and we have no out kick because our smalls arent stretching or providing.

Well put. It's a concern. I thought with a fresh set of direction (Jordan Russell) our smalls may have been given more license to roam and play instinctively. It's like the opposite is happening.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Well put. It's a concern. I thought with a fresh set of direction (Jordan Russell) our smalls may have been given more license to roam and play instinctively. It's like the opposite is happening.

Yes I think we were all hopeful it was them being held back because of injuries at the position but I genuinely think it's instructional. If we have one small come up to the opposition's man standing 10m behind the stoppage we both cover their exit and potentially have a free fast forward handball if we win the stoppage. Don't understand what's happening atm. We beat Freo but them and Geelong I felt that not obvious. Backwards handballs out of stoppages to their man waiting and the half backs. With no smalls anywhere near to pressure the exits.

 

[brucemac]

Is Michael Rudd injured? Any reason he’s not playing?


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I hear he is close. Working hard waiting for his chance. He was stiff not be drafted but I reckon he will impress given his form last year.

 

[Coona Blues]

I hear he is close. Working hard waiting for his chance. He was stiff not be drafted but I reckon he will impress given his form last year.

Hope you are correct, thanks for sharing.
More than most in his underage year, Rudd was a worker. Do you know if he has grown to key position height or is still a “third tall”.

If he has developed from his draft year, I would be very happy if we called his name at the Mid-season draft.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Stuff I've said around the place. There are small things you see happen against us that don't happen to our opponents - maynards first goal. From 55. Just a free hand pass no small forward putting pressure on from behind. Handball chains out the back of stoppages no small or half forwards pressuring those backwards handballs by the opposition. It's like they've been given small 10m squared boxes they're not allowed to leave which are too deep in the f50.

There's something going on with ground ball gets because with all the F50 tackles we do have, why are we so bad at F50 ground ball gets. The tackles indicate the balls in dispute up there enough the ground ball gets indicate the smalls just aren't ever there. Hewett got smashed a few times holding the ball too long. Partly I think he's playing poorly but partly because the smalls don't stretch the defense. They just bring their crowd near Charlie/Harry/Tdk so when the midfielder exiting the stoppage from a throw in (when it's not 6-6-6) he looks up and sees 'clumps' not something you instinctively want to kick to. So we get overpossession short. Handballs etc as there's no other option. Then opposing smalls go to work because they can collapse down and get an outnumber at the stoppage and we have no out kick because our smalls arent stretching or providing.

Re. Ground ball gets in the fwd line - the elephant in the room is our small forwards are all too slow. They get high tackle numbers because they're second to the ball.

Durdin is out of form but he is quick-ish at least and Motlop is quick. Owies, Fogarty, Kennedy, Cotterell all lack elite pace and Fantasia is nowhere near his peak speed. Martin is ok but a bit of a loper. Cunners is good but usually injury effected.

Fwd 50 Tackles are great but jeez it would be better if the opposition had to worry about tackling our blokes all the time rather than the other way around.

 

[Jimmae]

To cast to a TV - assuming GoogleCast/AirPlay support - load up the AFL app on your phone/tablet, and on the app home screen tap the 'Live' section at the top, then bring up the VFL live stream and hit the cast button. Do not navigate to the VFL section of the app menu.

CARLTON
B: Marchbank, S.Durdin, Le. Young
HB: Wilson, Akuei, La. Young
C: Ramshaw, Binns, Cuningham
HF: Cahill, Monahan, Moir
F: McMahon, Lemmey, Mirkov

R: O'Keeffe, Carroll, Fantasia

INT: Prout, White, Poole*, Lewis, Nelson

EMG: Hogg, Phillips, Stevens, Maher, Lambert, Gill, Lefroy

AFL - News, Fixtures, Scores & Results - AFL.com.au

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www.afl.com.au

 

[Bokan]

Maher and Phillips out seems a bit stiff (especially Maher, blokes been pretty decent)

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[beowulf]

Maher and Phillips out seems a bit stiff (especially Maher, blokes been pretty decent)

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We usually have a late out. Don't be surprised if Maher plays.
Our side is also somewhat tall, so a small would be a good thing.
Phillips, I haven't been overly impressed by. He hasn't supplied a lot of leadership as yet.

 

[Mondyboy]

Phillips was non-existent last week.

Maher is unlucky. But he butchered it last week. He wasn’t along though.

Also, we have 14 listed players so this was going to happen.


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[Christou2Kouta]

We are a land of the giants team. Thank god they didn’t play in the wet last night.
Still not a particularly well balanced side but hoping Mirkov can feed Cuningham like he did with Dow.


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[gbatman]

Starting to get some more AFL names into this side. Hopefully Marchbank can get through this game well and can work his was into the AFL side.