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Training 2024 training updates.

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Dundalis said:
In any case, I think it's been evident that Reef quite clearly has many good AFL calibre traits, and while Fin's traits haven't stood out as much, they seem AFL level also, meaning they have needed/need to ensure the weaknesses in their skillsets that have stopped them getting more games are improved. For Reef it's tank and staying injury free, and Fin, it's probably adding a few more strings to his bow while actually getting the opportunity to break into what has been a pretty stacked AFL midfield. But he seems to have a lot of similar traits to his brother, whom while he was someone that played a lot more early than Fin, actually took a while to develop into the dominant mid that he ended up becoming.
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I think the trend that GC has seen is broken a lot less frequently than you do. I don't think the Pies have had a player who had a long career without playing a fair bit early for a long time.

Finn will be a big trend breaker if he makes it. However, like I suggested earlier, I do think he's a chance as I think there's a coupl of things that may see this trend get broken more often - we're talking about setting them up for success rather than the previous throw them in the deep end mentality. And the rise of small forwards in importance in the game means that middling paced mids who would have previously cut their teeth up forward will now have to wait until they're good enough for the midfield to play.
 
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Apples said:
Thanks Doc. Nice to be reminded of what a real camera can do. Don't suppose you got any close-ups of Ned Long did you?
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He wasn't there this morning.
 

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sr36 said:
I think the trend that GC has seen is broken a lot less frequently than you do. I don't think the Pies have had a player who had a long career without playing a fair bit early for a long time.

Finn will be a big trend breaker if he makes it. However, like I suggested earlier, I do think he's a chance as I think there's a coupl of things that may see this trend get broken more often - we're talking about setting them up for success rather than the previous throw them in the deep end mentality. And the rise of small forwards in importance in the game means that middling paced mids who would have previously cut their teeth up forward will now have to wait until they're good enough for the midfield to play.
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Agree. I think more mids/wingers will be expected to kick goals also. Reckon we might be ahead of the trend here. With 7 of 12 goals coming from our mids in the GF (from memory) I’m hoping we see this as a factor that can keep us ahead of the pack. We have the personnel and it’s one reason I’m fairly bullish about our back to back chances.
 
We have a few players on our lists who have only broken through after 4 seasons or more.

Josh Daicos played 17 games in his first 3 years. Including 5 games in his third year. He almost looked a bust.
Tom Mitchell took 3 years to get a permanent spot in Sydneys AFL side.
Billy Frampton played almost as many games this year as he has in his entire career of 6 seasons.
Nathan Murphy looked gone half way through his 3 year before finally looking at the level in 2022.
IQ only cemented his spot in his third season.
Darcy Moore looked like having major injury problems. In his 4th year he wasnt able to play for most of the year including a grand final. This was not uncommon for him in his first 4 years.
Pat Lipinski averaged about 10 games a year for 5 years at the Bulldogs.
WHE was almost Identical to Lipinski at GWS. Averaging about 10 games for 5 years.
 
A key piece of Collingwood’s back-to-back premiership quest has fallen into place, with forward Brody Mihocek rejoining full training, but Josh Daicos continues to work his way to top fitness.

Mihocek, the Magpies’ leading goal-kicker last season (47), has battled a calf issue over summer, and spent time running with Brayden Maynard when the latter was recuperating from shoulder surgery.

The club said last week Mihocek was expected to be cleared for match-play this week, and that’s what has eventuated. He was in the thick of the action on Monday as the Magpies completed a demanding session of almost three hours in steamy conditions at their home base

The Magpies worked on an array of game-based drills, including switching play from the back pocket to finish with the ball in the hands of a leading forward, and how best to clear the ball from defence with short kicks to combat a defensive flood, and how best to attack a defensive flood to find a leading forward.
Coach Craig McRae later led the end-to-end drill where the Magpies simulated having 30 seconds on the clock, with a need to score. The Pies have become the clutch kings in their two seasons under McRae, winning 20 matches by two goals or less. No club in the past 50 years has won as many tight matches as the Magpies over a two-year period.
Their ability to score when the stakes are at their greatest, or to hold possession with the result on the line, has been pivotal, highlighted by wins of seven, one and four points in their three finals last season.

In a year when the Magpies will be without the injured Daniel McStay, the undersized Mihocek will again be needed as a primary forward threat. He moved well on Monday and his nous around goal was as instinctive as ever.
There were few clues as to who will replace McStay come the Magpies’ pre-season opener against Richmond at Ikon Park on February 27, but Reef McInnes, Ash Johnson and premiership tall Billy Frampton are likely to be given opportunities.

Josh Daicos, the club’s reigning best and fairest, spent a large chunk of training completing sprints with youngster Jakob Ryan (bone bruising to the lower leg) at excellent pace. Daicos has had lower leg muscle/nerve issues and the club said last week he was completing a running program. Magpies fitness boss Jarrod Wade says the plan is for Daicos to progress to skill work over the next three weeks. Josh’s brother Nick Daicos was in excellent touch, his ball use typically sharp.
Back-up ruckman Oscar Steene limped from the field with a left foot injury early in training, but returned to take part in drills.

Draftee Harry DeMattia, pick No.25 from the Dandenong Stingrays in last year’s national draft, was entrusted with kick-ins and was lively, while Tew Jiath – nicknamed “TJ” by teammates – impressed with his dash and creativity. The No.37 pick from the Gippsland Power in last year’s national draft remains a work in progress, but the Magpies, understandably, are buoyant about what he can offer.


Veterans Scott Pendlebury, Tom Mitchell and Jordan De Goey were also in good touch, Beau McCreey’s field kicking was excellent, while recruit Lachie Schultz is ready to impress.

Nathan Murphy showed no signs of the heavy tackle he took from Nick Daicos last week. Murphy, with a history of concussions, was cleared to continue his career by an AFL-appointed concussion panel in December.

www.theage.com.au

Premiership defender misses training after car crash

Magpies defender Brayden Maynard missed training after he was involved in what Collingwood described as a minor car crash. But his teammate Brody Mihocek did, however, make a positive return to the track.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
 
Would be pretty incredible if we saw both Macrae and McInnes lining up come Opening Round. I'm excited by the prospect but I still find it hard to think how we change very much of the GF lineup besides Schultz in for Ginnivan.

Pre-season matches can't come soon enough in my view.

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Pleasedontfail11 said:
We have a few players on our lists who have only broken through after 4 seasons or more.

Josh Daicos played 17 games in his first 3 years. Including 5 games in his third year. He almost looked a bust.
Tom Mitchell took 3 years to get a permanent spot in Sydneys AFL side.
Billy Frampton played almost as many games this year as he has in his entire career of 6 seasons.
Nathan Murphy looked gone half way through his 3 year before finally looking at the level in 2022.
IQ only cemented his spot in his third season.
Darcy Moore looked like having major injury problems. In his 4th year he wasnt able to play for most of the year including a grand final. This was not uncommon for him in his first 4 years.
Pat Lipinski averaged about 10 games a year for 5 years at the Bulldogs.
WHE was almost Identical to Lipinski at GWS. Averaging about 10 games for 5 years.
Click to expand...

Josh fits as an exception - but it did take him getting on top of his asthma


Mitchell played 10 games in his first year
Frampton isn't looking like become anything more than a fringe player
Murphy was injured for most of his early years, but does fit
IQ doesn't fit at all - he tracked like a very good player in terms of games played
Moore doesn't fit at all - he was a regular really early - wouldn't have played much VFL at all.
WHE doesn't fit - 10, 9, 20 were his first 3 years at GWS - then he missed most of the next two with injuries.
Lippa was getting 10 games a year straight away.

Basically the ones it fit as exceptions had to overcome injury/health issues.
 
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watt price tully said:
I don’t want to get all Biblical but there’s 40 days and 40 nights till “we” play GWS in the cow paddock in Sidanee.
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As long as we don't have to walk there, we should do okay.
 
Pragmatic Shill said:
Would be pretty incredible if we saw both Macrae and McInnes lining up come Opening Round. I'm excited by the prospect but I still find it hard to think how we change very much of the GF lineup besides Schultz in for Ginnivan.

Pre-season matches can't come soon enough in my view.

On SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
You find it hard to think of a way to fit in Reef? I’ll give you a hint, it rhymes with Filly Brampton.
 

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Apex36 said:
You find it hard to think of a way to fit in Reef? I’ll give you a hint, it rhymes with Filly Brampton.
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Both though? I think we’ll see Reef/ Johnson for Frampton and Schultz for Ginnivan is a given, but without a bit of a rejig or an injury between now and Rd 1 I can’t see an obvious spot for Macrae.

The injury option is a slim window as well. If it’s a defender Ryan/ Demattia/ TJ are more likely, if it’s a forward you’d think HH gets the nod and if it’s a wing/ runner I’d feel more comfortable with Allan, but that’s his way in. Even then he might need to beat out Richards/ Sullivan/ Bytel.
 
sr36 said:
Josh fits as an exception - but it did take him getting on top of his asthma


Mitchell played 10 games in his first year
Frampton isn't looking like become anything more than a fringe player
Murphy was injured for most of his early years, but does fit
IQ doesn't fit at all - he tracked like a very good player in terms of games played
Moore doesn't fit at all - he was a regular really early - wouldn't have played much VFL at all.
WHE doesn't fit - 10, 9, 20 were his first 3 years at GWS - then he missed most of the next two with injuries.
Lippa was getting 10 games a year straight away.

Basically the ones it fit as exceptions had to overcome injury/health issues.
Click to expand...
If Josh wasn't a F/S he was unlikely to have been drafted at all.
 
Doc1763 said:
Canon 5D MKIV & 100-400 L MKII
It takes great shots. Bloody heavy though!
Click to expand...
My "real" camera is a Lumix GX9.
It takes excellent photos, but not as good as a full frame sensor camera like yours.
The advantage of it is the smaller sensor makes it more compact and much lighter - great for travel.
And a large range of Micro 4/3 lenses to go with it.
 
sr36 said:
Josh fits as an exception - but it did take him getting on top of his asthma


Mitchell played 10 games in his first year
Frampton isn't looking like become anything more than a fringe player
Murphy was injured for most of his early years, but does fit
IQ doesn't fit at all - he tracked like a very good player in terms of games played
Moore doesn't fit at all - he was a regular really early - wouldn't have played much VFL at all.
WHE doesn't fit - 10, 9, 20 were his first 3 years at GWS - then he missed most of the next two with injuries.
Lippa was getting 10 games a year straight away.

Basically the ones it fit as exceptions had to overcome injury/health issues.
Click to expand...

Reef and Macrae as Victorians had to overcome 2 years of junior development at U18 and VFL level being seriously hampered thanks to COVID.

Both have had multiple medium term injuries during their time at the club also if memory serves me correct.

They and all other recruits of this period deserve some extra patience from club and supporters alike as it was the most exceptional period of upheaval the game has faced since WW2.

The other obvious circumstance that needs to be taken into account is that we just won a Premiership, whilst many within were playing not only at a level that defied their age but at an age many would often be retired by. This is a kind of unique circumstance. While no one will be complaining about the Premiership just won, in other periods of recent Collingwood history players like a Macrae would have been afforded greater opportunity because we were a bottom side rebuilding or weren't in a period featuring some all time greats like a Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Crisp and Mitchell.

While I don't know whether a Macrae or a Reef will ultimately make the grade, right now the Collingwood 23 looks bloody hard to break into and it'll be no shame playing great VFL football in 2024 without being rewarded with senior selection.

May the best men win.
 
swoop42 said:
Reef and Macrae as Victorians had to overcome 2 years of junior development at U18 and VFL level being seriously hampered thanks to COVID.

Both have had multiple medium term injuries during their time at the club also if memory serves me correct.

They and all other recruits of this period deserve some extra patience from club and supporters alike as it was the most exceptional period of upheaval the game has faced since WW2.

The other obvious circumstance that needs to be taken into account is that we just won a Premiership, whilst many within were playing not only at a level that defied their age but at an age many would often be retired by. This is a kind of unique circumstance. While no one will be complaining about the Premiership just won, in other periods of recent Collingwood history players like a Macrae would have been afforded greater opportunity because we were a bottom side rebuilding or weren't in a period featuring some all time greats like a Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Crisp and Mitchell.

While I don't know whether a Macrae or a Reef will ultimately make the grade, right now the Collingwood 23 looks bloody hard to break into and it'll be no shame playing great VFL football in 2024 without being rewarded with senior selection.

May the best men win.
Click to expand...
I certainly don't disagree with that. I'm not suggesting those two won't make it, just that I agree with GC that they will be exceptions in terms of recent history.

Personally, I don't think the trend that GC describes will hold and more guys will come good after extended runs at VFL. Essentially, I think Macrae would have played a lot more senior footy if Bucks was still the coach, as Bucks often played them early and didn't seem to value forward pockets as highly as we do now, so I think he would have plopped him there for a decent chunk of games. I think it's different coaching philosophy that has resulted in Macrae not tracking the same way in terms of games played as a heap of successful mids.
 

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sr36 said:
I certainly don't disagree with that. I'm not suggesting those two won't make it, just that I agree with GC that they will be exceptions in terms of recent history.

Personally, I don't think the trend that GC describes will hold and more guys will come good after extended runs at VFL. Essentially, I think Macrae would have played a lot more senior footy if Bucks was still the coach, as Bucks often played them early and didn't seem to value forward pockets as highly as we do now, so I think he would have plopped him there for a decent chunk of games. I think it's different coaching philosophy that has resulted in Macrae not tracking the same way in terms of games played as a heap of successful mids.
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Fin also played, what like 9-10 games in his debut year. So its not like he didn't play early.
His last 4 games he played back to back in 2021 he had 21, 16, 20, 15 disposals playing on a forward flank. Just got pushed back the last couple years when we had a strong side and just has had to bide his time while working on his inside game.
 
Jen2310 said:
Fin also played, what like 9-10 games in his debut year. So its not like he didn't play early.
His last 4 games he played back to back in 2021 he had 21, 16, 20, 15 disposals playing on a forward flank. Just got pushed back the last couple years when we had a strong side and just has had to bide his time while working on his inside game.
Click to expand...
And he missed (majority?) pre season last year with that back issue.
 
ElliottsMaggies said:
And he missed (majority?) pre season last year with that back issue.
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Thats right, after xmas he wasnt seen until march-april, so missed all those intraclub/practice games to put his best foot forward. Its amazing the season he had in the vfl given his lack of pre-season
 
Jen2310 said:
Fin also played, what like 9-10 games in his debut year. So its not like he didn't play early.
His last 4 games he played back to back in 2021 he had 21, 16, 20, 15 disposals playing on a forward flank. Just got pushed back the last couple years when we had a strong side and just has had to bide his time while working on his inside game.
Click to expand...

My point is that if you take Macrae's name out of it, it is bloody unusual in the current game for blokes to go on and have successful careers after spending Years 2 and 3 playing every week in the VFL - except for about 2 games as sub. It won't be a normal career path for a bloke that goes on to become a good long term player.

However, if you put Macrae's name back into it, I think he's a chance as I think him not playing during the last two years is a change in coaching philosphy - rather than being about Macrae. I think Bucks would have pumped games into him as a forward, but Fly has shifted away from a throw them in the deep end mentality and also sees small forward roles as being more significant and thus plays more specialist small forwards there, rather than not ready mids in those roles.
 
sr36 said:
My point is that if you take Macrae's name out of it, it is bloody unusual in the current game for blokes to go on and have successful careers after spending Years 2 and 3 playing every week in the VFL - except for about 2 games as sub. It won't be a normal career path for a bloke that goes on to become a good long term player.

However, if you put Macrae's name back into it, I think he's a chance as I think him not playing during the last two years is a change in coaching philosphy - rather than being about Macrae. I think Bucks would have pumped games into him as a forward, but Fly has shifted away from a throw them in the deep end mentality and also sees small forward roles as being more significant and thus plays more specialist small forwards there, rather than not ready mids in those roles.
Click to expand...
Yes, fly is a big part of this. He wants to play players in their natural positions if he can help it. And probably thought he would be wasted on a flank; so that when he did play as the sub, it was in the middle. He wants to set them up to succeed. Even if it takes longer than said player would wished.

We are in the position where we dont have to rush these kids. Which us why Allan had 0 games in his debut year. Ryan 1. Harrison has played 3-4 in 2 years.
 
Fly has said on multiple occasions that he likes to 'set players up to succeed'. I suspect that, as Jen said, Fly sees Fin as more than just a HFF / FP and wanted him to develop. Couple that with the interrupted years Fin has expereinced through a number of issues, and he is clearly being developed to come into the team to contribute in a number of roles. I doubt that the club would have spent so much time and energy with Fin if he didn't show potential and demonstrate the right attitude that the club is looking for.
I expect that Fin will break into the team and will be hard to remove once established.
 
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