No Oppo Supporters 2025 AFL General Discussion

[Callipygian]

I am walking on egg shells but
Jamarra is Aboriginal. We had a similar player drafted who was violent with his girlfriend. He was Aboriginal.
I have worked with Aboriginal people in prisons for a decade and a half.
They have told me things that make me believe in systemic problems ln Aboriginal society especially in urban places. They have enlightened me as to values that they hold dearly.

I am glad we traded in Rosas. I want Aboriginal players in the team.

Aboriginals were persecuted by whites ever since they landeed in Australia. I don't think they have ever recovered. The effects are still seen today. Their kids are not growing up in stable families. I am saying this in a general sense. Not everyone is the same.

There is still a long way to go to repair what was done historically. It may take another hundred years. Jamarra is the tip of the iceberg. There is so much more going on underneath.

I think there is a larger risk picking Aboriginal players from the draft.

I commend you for being brave enough to post about an issue that invites polemic.

I largely agree with what you have said - the main exception is the last sentence. There doesn't have to be a larger risk picking Indigenous players - that's what all the work recruiters do scouting prospective draftees is about. However, if you aren't willing to assume a larger risk then it will shrink the pool of Indigenous players to choose from. With prospective draftees, whether Indigenous or not, there will be times where it is worth taking a larger risk and other times that a club chooses not to. I don't think we should necessarily eschew risk entirely. For instance, I'm glad we gave Elijah Taylor a go. Equally I think it was the right decision to sack him after we had tried supporting him and he had gone off the rails repeatedly and in really significant ways.

I do think it is a good idea to put additional support around Indigenous kids (with their agreement) - perhaps in the form of Indigenous welfare managers like Jarred Hodges, who is employed at the Swans. It's also great to have someone like Micky O on our board, who is so involved with initiatives like the GO Foundation and can help guide the club's strategy on this type of thing. It's great to see Indigenous players flourishing in the AFL - it connects with a long history of Indigenous players in the game, it provides inspiring role models for Indigenous kids and makes it feel like a game that is inclusive for all, plus many Indigenous players play with so much skill, hardness and flair that is exciting to watch.

 

[bedford]

There was a discussion yesterday on SEN about the calendars and laughing about CC on the front of Carltons and Ollie and Wayward in ours and then someone in the know called in and said they are organised in May !

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I commend you for being brave enough to post about an issue that invites polemic.

I largely agree with what you have said - the main exception is the last sentence. There doesn't have to be a larger risk picking Indigenous players - that's what all the work recruiters do scouting prospective draftees is about. However, if you aren't willing to assume a larger risk then it will shrink the pool of Indigenous players to choose from. With prospective draftees, whether Indigenous or not, there will be times where it is worth taking a larger risk and other times that a club chooses not to. I don't think we should necessarily eschew risk entirely. For instance, I'm glad we gave Elijah Taylor a go. Equally I think it was the right decision to sack him after we had tried supporting him and he had gone off the rails repeatedly and in really significant ways.

I do think it is a good idea to put additional support around Indigenous kids (with their agreement) - perhaps in the form of Indigenous welfare managers like Jarred Hodges, who is employed at the Swans. It's also great to have someone like Micky O on our board, who is so involved with initiatives like the GO Foundation and can help guide the club's strategy on this type of thing. It's great to see Indigenous players flourishing in the AFL - it connects with a long history of Indigenous players in the game, it provides inspiring role models for Indigenous kids and makes it feel like a game that is inclusive for all, plus many Indigenous players play with so much skill, hardness and flair that is exciting to watch.

The Swans appear to have terrific support mechanisms & indeed look to be industry leading (or close to it). I’m proud of the club in that respect.

Which is why I am NOT glad we decided to give Elijah Taylor a go.
Despite all the support, he still bashed a woman. And the fact that no other club was willing to roll the dice and draft him, despite his talent, says their due diligence was right & we were wrong.

And don’t forget - another kid missed out on his dream of being drafted. We (and they) will never know what might have been.

 

[Callipygian]

The Swans appear to have terrific support mechanisms & indeed look to be industry leading (or close to it). I’m proud of the club in that respect.

Which is why I am NOT glad we decided to give Elijah Taylor a go.
Despite all the support, he still bashed a woman. And the fact that no other club was willing to roll the dice and draft him, despite his talent, says their due diligence was right & we were wrong.

And don’t forget - another kid missed out on his dream of being drafted. We (and they) will never know what might have been.

Sure we do. Among others, Geelong drafted Shaun Mannagh and we drafted Riley Bice and they are having lovely AFL careers after biding their time and girding their loins in lower levels of footy. Swings and roundabouts. They weren't ready then.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Sure we do. Among others, Geelong drafted Shaun Mannagh and we drafted Riley Bice and they are having lovely AFL careers after biding their time and girding their loins in lower levels of footy. Swings and roundabouts. They weren't ready then.

I would argue that Elijah Taylor wasn’t ready & there would have been a number of kids that were - if given the chance that Taylor wasted.

Anyway, it’s a philosophical debate now. What’s done is done.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I would argue that Elijah Taylor wasn’t ready & there would have been a number of kids that were - if given the chance that Taylor wasted.

Anyway, it’s a philosophical debate now. What’s done is done.

Regardless of the reasons why some succeed and some fail. There's an element of lottery about it which every club tried to minimise but it still exists.

 

[Mister B]

A Collingwood staffer has been sacked inappropriate drunken behaviour on a camp in Alice Springs

Leave the state for a couple of days and they lose the plot.

 

[bedford]

Leave the state for a couple of days and they lose the plot.

Did a lap dance

 

[liz]

The Swans appear to have terrific support mechanisms & indeed look to be industry leading (or close to it). I’m proud of the club in that respect.

Which is why I am NOT glad we decided to give Elijah Taylor a go.
Despite all the support, he still bashed a woman. And the fact that no other club was willing to roll the dice and draft him, despite his talent, says their due diligence was right & we were wrong.

And don’t forget - another kid missed out on his dream of being drafted. We (and they) will never know what might have been.

It is likely he wasn’t ready when he was drafted, but I don’t believe he had any charges or convictions before we drafted him. Even if the club understood it was taking a risk with his lack of maturity, they couldn’t have foreseen the nature of the trouble he got into.

 

[dosser]

Leave the state for a couple of days and they lose the plot.

The excitement was high with so many being out of Vic for the first time.

 

[dosser]

It is likely he wasn’t ready when he was drafted, but I don’t believe he had any charges or convictions before we drafted him. Even if the club understood it was taking a risk with his lack of maturity, they couldn’t have foreseen the nature of the trouble he got into.

I'm not sure, Liz. He was a big slider in the draft which makes me think that clubs were aware of something going on, but we thought our culture was good enough to help him.

 

[bedford]

Finally realised that Tom Silvagni was the person convicted last week for rape , dumb####

 

[liz]

I'm not sure, Liz. He was a big slider in the draft which makes me think that clubs were aware of something going on, but we thought our culture was good enough to help him.

I don’t know that he was a big slider but I did get the impression there were questions, not about his talent, but about the likelihood of him adapting as an 18yo to an AFL environment. I believe he had quite a difficult family situation. So yes, a lot of clubs had possibly crossed his name off the draft boards.

The heightened risk with drafting some players isn’t that they are Indigenous, but rather that they haven't had the kind of upbringing and family role models of your middle class, public school draftee. Sadly, Indigenous Australians are over represented in the cohort of kids with a challenging upbringing, for all sorts of reasons most of us are familiar with. It’s primarily a socioeconomic issue rather than a cultural one.

 

[bedford]

I don’t know that he was a big slider but I did get the impression there were questions, not about his talent, but about the likelihood of him adapting as an 18yo to an AFL environment. I believe he had quite a difficult family situation. So yes, a lot of clubs had possibly crossed his name off the draft boards.

The heightened risk with drafting some players isn’t that they are Indigenous, but rather that they have had the kind of upbringing and family role models of your middle class, public school draftee. Sadly, Indigenous Australians are over represented in the cohort of kids with a challenging upbringing, for all sorts of reasons most of us are familiar with. It’s primarily a socioeconomic issue rather than a cultural one.

And then you get a Tom Silvagni who's had a stable upbringing , good and bad in all

 

[Kiama Chris]

I don’t know that he was a big slider but I did get the impression there were questions, not about his talent, but about the likelihood of him adapting as an 18yo to an AFL environment. I believe he had quite a difficult family situation. So yes, a lot of clubs had possibly crossed his name off the draft boards.

The heightened risk with drafting some players isn’t that they are Indigenous, but rather that they haven't had the kind of upbringing and family role models of your middle class, public school draftee. Sadly, Indigenous Australians are over represented in the cohort of kids with a challenging upbringing, for all sorts of reasons most of us are familiar with. It’s primarily a socioeconomic issue rather than a cultural one.

I think there can be cultural issues when kids move a long way from family support networks. True for all cultures but seems especially so for Aboriginal.

 

[Mister B]

Did a lap dance

By the sounds of it, most of the women's players there were 1st year. Making the assumption they are young just turned 18 year old draftees, to have that sleezy prick giving you a lap dance would be horrific.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I am walking on egg shells but
Jamarra is Aboriginal. We had a similar player drafted who was violent with his girlfriend. He was Aboriginal.
I have worked with Aboriginal people in prisons for a decade and a half.
They have told me things that make me believe in systemic problems ln Aboriginal society especially in urban places. They have enlightened me as to values that they hold dearly.

I am glad we traded in Rosas. I want Aboriginal players in the team.

Aboriginals were persecuted by whites ever since they landeed in Australia. I don't think they have ever recovered. The effects are still seen today. Their kids are not growing up in stable families. I am saying this in a general sense. Not everyone is the same.

There is still a long way to go to repair what was done historically. It may take another hundred years. Jamarra is the tip of the iceberg. There is so much more going on underneath.

I think there is a larger risk picking Aboriginal players from the draft.

Its exactly why Matt Rendell voiced his concerns a decade ago on this exact issue before his life got ruined by the AFL.

 

[.Shotties.]

Hence my stance on Taylor at the time (as bad as his indiscretion was) should've been worked on. To expect them to behave like a white aussie plucked from a private school straight off the bat is bonkers.

He was worked on. There were three incidents, one of which involved him using the buckle end of a belt.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Yeah the ignorance is crazy when it comes to the general consensus of the indigenous being addicts who can't assimilate to the Aussie way or be functional members of society - or just being surprised that some of them can't handle a professional lifestyle. It's pretty obvious why they come from broken homes and why it's so hard to break free from it. Hence my stance on Taylor at the time (as bad as his indiscretion was) should've been worked on. To expect them to behave like a white aussie plucked from a private school straight off the bat is bonkers.

He bashed a woman. With a belt.

After being supported through earlier indiscretions.

Being indigenous cannot be used as a basis to excuse it.

Failure to sack Taylor would have sent an awful message.

 

[rustycrate]

I don’t know that he was a big slider but I did get the impression there were questions, not about his talent, but about the likelihood of him adapting as an 18yo to an AFL environment. I believe he had quite a difficult family situation. So yes, a lot of clubs had possibly crossed his name off the draft boards.

The heightened risk with drafting some players isn’t that they are Indigenous, but rather that they haven't had the kind of upbringing and family role models of your middle class, public school draftee. Sadly, Indigenous Australians are over represented in the cohort of kids with a challenging upbringing, for all sorts of reasons most of us are familiar with. It’s primarily a socioeconomic issue rather than a cultural one.

I think the socioeconomic and cultural issues are rolled up together. Pick your poison but they are so interrelataled that they are indistinguishable.

I highlighted a piece of your post. Being treated as a lesser person in society hinders people being role models. Hence my point that socioeconomic and cultural issues are so interrelated that they are indistinguishable.

Having champions of the game, champions, being publicly ridiculed on front of thousands of supprters for decades, including, this year, suggests indigenous Australians still are perceived as inferior people in society by a section of Australian society. This has an impact on kids growing up both indigenous and non indigenous. Kids are not stupid. They can read between the lines and form their own opinion.

 

[liz]

I think the socioeconomic and cultural issues are rolled up together. Pick your poison but they are so interrelataled that they are indistinguishable.

I highlighted a piece of your post. Being treated as a lesser person in society hinders people being role models. Hence my point that socioeconomic and cultural issues are so interrelated that they are indistinguishable.

Having champions of the game, champions, being publicly ridiculed on front of thousands of supprters for decades, including, this year, suggests indigenous Australians still are perceived as inferior people in society by a section of Australian society. This has an impact on kids growing up both indigenous and non indigenous. Kids are not stupid. They can read between the lines and form their own opinion.

Disagree with your first paragraph but it’s a complex issue that has little to do with footy. So not particularly interested in taking it further in this thread.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Foxtel broadcasting “greatest ever matches: 2016 Grand Final Sydney vs Western Bulldogs”.

Foxtel can get in the bin.

 

[bedford]

Foxtel broadcasting “greatest ever matches: 2016 Grand Final Sydney vs Western Bulldogs”.

Foxtel can get in the bin.

But we have had 05 , 12 and the 96 Pelim lately. I want the 05 Prelim when we smashed St Scum

 

[joeykanga]

Just to be consistent can we now start a thread on players of Italian descent and their behaviour patterns. Its like a groundhog day around here.

 

[anotherletdown]

but who will the 19th team play?

Relegation game against best non-aligned VFL team