Discussion 2025 General AFL Discussion

[gringo2011]

For much of the past 3 years, he form wouldnt have warranted selection. His good games this year dont change that fact. He found himself there in the Gold Coast jumper as well because his form hasn't always been as rosy as it is now.

He wanted to play half back, which he wouldn't have for us. And as it turns out, he couldn't for Gold Coast either. SO they moved him forward again, which he might have played for us but it's not clear cut. At the time, Higgins and Butler were ahead of him on form. Maybe he could have taken Gresh spot in 2023 but then we wouldnt have got first round compo for Gresh so we hardly lost out there. And I dont think anyone is disappointed we had a spot for Phillipou in the seniors all season. Logically, there wasn't an obvious space for him that would have warranted that amount of money or contract length.

He's found a good home at Gold Coast and form 3 years later. Good for him. Keeping him would have changed absolutely nothing about our situation or form.

He wanted to play every week and saw that as his opportunity to be a best 22 player. We persisted with some absolute spuds and sold off players for pennies. It's cute that the usual suspects are still trying to gloss over another embarrassing era like it was all brilliant strategy.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

And now we have JSOS ... fairly average over his first 6 or 7 yrs ...... but now 27 and all of a sudden

Kid can play

 

[AirWinmar]

You win some you lose some, there will be a lot of North supporters regretting letting Mason Wood go who has kicked on for us.

Not that many players we have let go recently have kicked on at other clubs like Billings and Gresham, Long is a rare exception.

Billings could have been a very good player imo. Its very difficult to change your playing style and have the belief you can be a great player after a few years of playing a certain way. A random number generator would have drafted better than our recruiters during those years, which tells you it was more than just drafting.

Look at our football department now compared to then.

 

[BrutThough]

He wanted to play every week and saw that as his opportunity to be a best 22 player. We persisted with some absolute spuds and sold off players for pennies. It's cute that the usual suspects are still trying to gloss over another embarrassing era like it was all brilliant strategy.

So who from our best 22 in 2023 shouldn't have played so the 2023 version of Ben Long could be best 22?

No Phillipou? I'm so everyone would have been thrilled out top 10 pick wasn't playing for a fringe forward could find form 3 years later. Or I guess Gresh. So thrilled with no compensation pick for the guy playing at Sandy!

Or we are operating under the time when he personally believed he was a half back. Goodbye Nas or Sinclair.

One day you will learn that not every trade has to have a loser. Someone can go elsewhere and play good football multiple years later without the place they left having made a bad decision.

 

[gringo2011]

And now we have JSOS ... fairly average over his first 6 or 7 yrs ...... but now 27 and all of a sudden

Kid can play

Which is the progression most players take. By their mid 20s they are consistent and reliable. J Sos has been a bit like Mason Wood in that he was injury prone for a lot of his early years. Kennedy was good at Carlton but having to play out of position a lot to make up for the Blues huge mid pool.

 

[gringo2011]

So who from our best 22 in 2023 shouldn't have played so the 2023 version of Ben Long could be best 22?

No Phillipou? I'm so everyone would have been thrilled out top 10 pick wasn't playing for a fringe forward could find form 3 years later. Or I guess Gresh. So thrilled with no compensation pick for the guy playing at Sandy!

Or we are operating under the time when he personally believed he was a half back. Goodbye Nas or Sinclair.

One day you will learn that not every trade has to have a loser. Someone can go elsewhere and play good football multiple years later without the place they left having made a bad decision.

FFS man, we ****ed up nearly every trade and draft for 10+ years. We still have a huge age gap with guys in Battle and Long's age bracket. We are going to have to go back and trade them all back in or have holes as the guys around 30 all start to tip over. Lethlean was a disaster.

 

[BrutThough]

FFS man, we ****ed up nearly every trade and draft for 10+ years. We still have a huge age gap with guys in Battle and Long's age bracket. We are going to have to go back and trade them all back in or have holes as the guys around 30 all start to tip over. Lethlean was a disaster.

So you agree he wouldn't have been best 22 when he left.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Which is the progression most players take. By their mid 20s they are consistent and reliable. J Sos has been a bit like Mason Wood in that he was injury prone for a lot of his early years. Kennedy was good at Carlton but having to play out of position a lot to make up for the Blues huge mid pool.

Progression most players take??

Sure if given the chance to play .consistently at a senior level .... maybe .... or played in the right position with the right support around him .... maybe

And this it .... the amount of great players there have been who have never won a Premiership is ... a lot

Winning a Premiership is really flipping hard ...... sooo many things need to go right

Look at Lockett .... Ablett Snr .... Buckley .... Riewoldt ... Harves ..... Cripps ..... Flower ... Stynes ..... Roos ..... Glendenning ..... Dempsey ..... and many others .... never won the ultimate prize

 

[pebblesofsand]

Contract offer means nothing. Could have been a one year offer on minimum pay. Could have gone to his management and negotiated.

But it wasn't though. It was 3 x $400K.

So unsurprisingly he took a guaranteed $2M from the Suns instead of a guaranteed $1.2M from us.

Would have looked a very sensible move after he played less games in his first season with the Suns than he did with us in the previous season.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

The Suns list is absolutely ridiculous. Just don't see how in the current system it is possible for us to close the gap on them. They get the probable number 1 pick this year in Uwland as well. How the hell are we supposed to compete with that? With the random luck of the father son system (Daicos,Darcy and the Ashcroft's and the gravy train of the NGA's locked in the AFL have now firmly established a two tiered system. You can see why we would throw the money at TDK, he might actually be gettable and theoretically having the best ruck in the game is at least a point of difference when you are coming up against teams that are so much more talented then you.

People say that these things will even out and its just flukes that they are getting a heap of talented players through their NGA's at one time but to me its obviously a pattern showing that they are getting better at developing and identifying kids. Especially in NSW and Queensland where the body types for rugby vs AFL are very different. Meaning they are not really competing with the NRL for the same players. They are getting access to the best athletes suitable for AFL every year in the largest growing population centres in the country. Seems freaking obvious to me its going to continue.

Our president has been the first to publicly put this on the agenda but I could see the Lions and the Suns splitting the next 5 flags between them. Watch the absolute whinging that begins from the big clubs when they start to realise what is happening.

I will always support StKilda but its now akin to supporting a Southampton in the premier league. Maybe it always was but it certainly didn't seem like it when I was growing up in the 90's and 00's. All you can hope for is a few good moments here and there. I have no expectations of becoming a serious contender. It's simultaneously freeing and depressing.

 

[Saints43]

Good to see the hawks lose. Despite missing the tip. Ducking for greed and still lose. Good.

It's interesting to me that all of the Hawks supporters I know claimed that Goodes was boo'd at their games because he played for free kicks. No other reason.
But they have no issue watching Ginni, the Wiz etc.
It's almost like that's not true.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

FFS man, we ****ed up nearly every trade and draft for 10+ years. We still have a huge age gap with guys in Battle and Long's age bracket. We are going to have to go back and trade them all back in or have holes as the guys around 30 all start to tip over. Lethlean was a disaster.

We need to draft well , and we need to retain players , rebuilding doesn't mean getting rid of the ones you think are the wrong demographic for a rebuild.
Hawks have rebuilt under our noses, but still have Breust ,Gunston , and Sicily.

Norfs threw out their oldies, now they've drafted in the likes of Parker, Darling and Daniel.

If we drafted two keepers every year for a decade, we'd have 20 players under 30.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's interesting to me that all of the Hawks supporters I know claimed that Goodes was boo'd at their games because he played for free kicks. No other reason.
But they have no issue watching Ginni, the Wiz etc.
It's almost like that's not true.

So if someone just about takes his head off during a game, and vision clearly shows him putting his head into the impact, what's the outcome?

 

[Saints43]

So if someone just about takes his head off during a game, and vision clearly shows him putting his head into the impact, what's the outcome?

They get the free kick.
David King mentioned that the Hawk players played for free kicks in front of goal and they got paid post match.
But immediately followed up with "But who cares?!" because it's illegal not to love the hok on Fox Footy.

A few weeks ago the wiz dropped to his knees with the ball but nobody tackled him. He was just kneeling on the ground with the ball. It was disgraceful.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Billings could have been a very good player imo. Its very difficult to change your playing style and have the belief you can be a great player after a few years of playing a certain way. A random number generator would have drafted better than our recruiters during those years, which tells you it was more than just drafting.

Look at our football department now compared to then.

It did , i made a random number generator using excel , and added all the players that were available in the draft ( knocking out players that were actually taken before our pick ).
My generator was really stupid , it included the rookie draft , but only weighted the first round as to how the players were rated. ( took the top 30 from phantoms for the first round ), so it might have selected someone like Brett Goodes as a second round pick. That's Ok still better than Spencer White.

I ran it over several drafts , and each one at least matched what we did after supposedly thinking about it.

I wish i knew where it was.

 

[jumperfan]

And now we have JSOS ... fairly average over his first 6 or 7 yrs ...... but now 27 and all of a sudden

Kid can play

He’s gonna look so good in the RWB

 

[SaintsSeptember]

They get the free kick.
David King mentioned that the Hawk players played for free kicks in front of goal and they got paid post match.
But immediately followed up with "But who cares?!" because it's illegal not to love the hok on Fox Footy.

A few weeks ago the wiz dropped to his knees with the ball but nobody tackled him. He was just kneeling on the ground with the ball. It was disgraceful.

OK but if i was to cause serious injury to a Ginnivan type, I'd be taking it to court outside the footy system, that he caused his own head injury and that his coach encouraged it.

 

[AirWinmar]

It did , i made a random number generator using excel , and added all the players that were available in the draft ( knocking out players that were actually taken before our pick ).
My generator was really stupid , it included the rookie draft , but only weighted the first round as to how the players were rated. ( took the top 30 from phantoms for the first round ), so it might have selected someone like Brett Goodes as a second round pick. That's Ok still better than Spencer White.

I ran it over several drafts , and each one at least matched what we did after supposedly thinking about it.

I wish i knew where it was.

Yeah i remember you posting about it ages ago

 

[sauce_head]

Could be something to do with quality of entry from the midfield.
Who knows maybe Jack Lonie was good as well.

I think he did very well post AFL!

 

[sauce_head]

They get the free kick.
David King mentioned that the Hawk players played for free kicks in front of goal and they got paid post match.
But immediately followed up with "But who cares?!" because it's illegal not to love the hok on Fox Footy.

A few weeks ago the wiz dropped to his knees with the ball but nobody tackled him. He was just kneeling on the ground with the ball. It was disgraceful.

And yet the best small forward in the game, Higgo, has no head as far as the umpires are concerned. It’s the absolute inconsistency that annoys me, as well as the AFL creating a situation where the players actively try and get hit in the head. I mean, look at Selwood!

 

[Dard Ball Get]

He probably would have stayed for less. $450k for a middler is about par.

Didn’t he hate the coach?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think he did very well post AFL!

Jack bucked the trend by moving back to Seaford from Moorabbin, becoming a big fish in a small pond.
He and his brother now play for Cheltenham.
I don't think he was ever a proper goal sneak, always more of a mid who wasn't big enough to play AFL.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/localfooty/sfl/sfnl-cheltenhams-jack-and-sam-lonie-share-on-how-family-played-a-part-in-their-premiership/news-story/062d9716bba63a2dcf9b50d4a1f21495

 

[Diehard Saint]

Which is the progression most players take. By their mid 20s they are consistent and reliable. J Sos has been a bit like Mason Wood in that he was injury prone for a lot of his early years. Kennedy was good at Carlton but having to play out of position a lot to make up for the Blues huge mid pool.

Exactly why Suns are doing well.
The squillions of first round picks and gifts they have received are all suddenly at the age where they start to fire.
Just like the Giants did.

Call me mean - spirited but I hope neither win a flag anytime soon.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He wanted to play every week and saw that as his opportunity to be a best 22 player. We persisted with some absolute spuds and sold off players for pennies. It's cute that the usual suspects are still trying to gloss over another embarrassing era like it was all brilliant strategy.

He played 19 games in 2022.
I'd guess around 9 were as a forward, but he only kicked 5 goals for the year.

 

[BrutThough]

Exactly why Suns are doing well.
The squillions of first round picks and gifts they have received are all suddenly at the age where they start to fire.
Just like the Giants did.

Call me mean - spirited but I hope neither win a flag anytime soon.

Unfortunately for the AFL, they won't be able to fixture them games against the bottom 6 or in Darwin during finals to hand them the flag like they've manufactured their start to the season.

But as compensation for that, they will get a top 3 player in the draft.