List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[The Bighouse]

Looking ahead VERY early if say the following might be looking for a new team or a new career in 2026:

Durdin contracted to the end of 2026
HOK contracted to the end of 2026
Pitto contracted to the end of 2027
Monahan

We’ve got some trading to do…

Who wants a broken 2nd hander..

 

[AT97]

And he’ll end up signing with Geelong for a farm.

And some cotton overalls when working the farm.

 

[BigBreakfast]

We’ve got some trading to do…

None of those guys are getting anything more than a 4th, 3rd at best

We don’t have a lot of trade value, except the big fish

We are a classic, contemporary “eliminate the middle class” squad

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

None of those guys are getting anything more than a 4th, 3rd at best

We don’t have a lot of trade value, except the big fish

We are a classic, contemporary “eliminate the middle class” squad

Realistically the only value we have is TDK or one of the big 5 - Cripps, Curnow, Mckay, Weiters, Walsh

And given I think all of us want to keep TDK, any moves would be tough to make without doing a lot of trading mid range players or veterans and bundling up picks etc.

Free agency would be great but theres not too many good ones on the market that we'd be able to pay up for..

 

[jpfalvo]

Don't think we need to. How many clubs genuinely play with 2 big key forwards? Give H the forward line and surround him with our smalls.

Curnow and Owies in 2024 contributed 80 goals.

Who is replacing these goals if Curnow doesnt play...



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[BigFrizz36]

Curnow and Owies in 2024 contributed 80 goals.

Who is replacing these goals if Curnow doesnt play...



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Curnow and Motlop. It's not like Charlie didn't miss games last year, if he misses a couple early no big deal.

Motlop is every chance to match Owies goal output and give us a lot more around the ground.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Curnow and Motlop. It's not like Charlie didn't miss games last year, if he misses a couple early no big deal.

Motlop is every chance to match Owies goal output and give us a lot more around the ground.

Motlop, Williams, Kemp/Moir, Hollands. We have enough goal kickers to cover Owies.

 

[Catfish blue]

We have three promising NGA academy kids available to us in this year's deaft. Jack Ison who is tracking well as a189cm third defender, Tyson Gresham a small forward like his brother and Mingara Clark who is another indigenous kid at 185 cm. Hopefully all three progress to getting drafted this year.

That's great hear, thanks for sharing.

 

[Catfish blue]

I have been pushing this for a while, it’s not so much that our zone is crap, it’s that our club has dropped the ball. Go and google the Danniher squad and the James Hird academy which is the Bombers NGA and F/S squads and then search for ours, you will see straight away a club that has invested effort and then there’s ours.

My friend has a son in the Danniher squad and his eldest was in it two years ago, by his reports its a very well run squad which has spots assigned to them in the Cannons squad.

We have one of the premier football school in the state in our zone, we use their facilities but as far as im aware they dont do scholarships and we dont have any say on how the Knights squad is set up.

If we want a strong academy we actually need to invest in it, our zone is a good size with lots of strong leagues and a strong football school, we should be doing better.

Please write to the club! You sound like you know the ins and outs on what we are missing out on. Thanks for sharing.

 

[BigFrizz36]

That's great hear, thanks for sharing.

Add Charlie Dean as a growing KPD father son and we might not even make a draftpick this year. They could be all NGA & F/S selections.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Still has a long, long way to go.
Suggest he signs a contract first before believing the hype.
A lot of pressure goes with the huge coin.

I don’t believe any hype….

 

[The Bighouse]

Add Charlie Dean as a growing KPD father son and we might not even make a draftpick this year. They could be all NGA & F/S selections.

Harry Dean isn’t it?
Charlie Dean plays for Collingwood..

 

[BigFrizz36]

Harry Dean isn’t it?
Charlie Dean plays for Collingwood..

Correct. We could have a whole backline of Harry's shortly.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Realistically the only value we have is TDK or one of the big 5 - Cripps, Curnow, Mckay, Weiters, Walsh

And given I think all of us want to keep TDK, any moves would be tough to make without doing a lot of trading mid range players or veterans and bundling up picks etc.

Free agency would be great but theres not too many good ones on the market that we'd be able to pay up for..

Who are the mid range players who have value?
Williams
SOS
Kemp
Both Hollands
Saad
Doch
Acres
Gov
Hewett
Cerra

Very few bring us anything that supersedes the value they have with us. Many are sentimental players to the fanbase

Anyway, I’d rather see us stick fat, pick at the edges to side the pursuit of a more progressive style and build from within

 

[KohPhi]

KohPhi any Bont updates?

 

[CoachB]

This is rubbish. SOS nailed about 5 picks in 5 years. It has only been since getting rid of a lot of the high picks SOS brought in that we’ve gotten better. As well as our investment in and nailing of SSP and MSD players over the last 3 or 4 years

I don't think you remember how bad our list was. We were witches hats most weeks. The AFL rules are so tight as we have seen with North Melbourne you can 10 bonus 1st round picks and it doesn't touch the sides. The only option you are left with is to go to the cattle yards, buy a small herd and see if we could find one. The fact we had a few duds lying around when SOS was marched out was more about the journey of dragging us off the bottom than stock picking.

 

[RAPPA]

Who are the mid range players who have value?
Williams
SOS
Kemp
Both Hollands
Saad
Doch
Acres
Gov
Hewett
Cerra

Very few bring us anything that supersedes the value they have with us. Many are sentimental players to the fanbase

Anyway, I’d rather see us stick fat, pick at the edges to side the pursuit of a more progressive style and build from within

Cerra if fit this year, and Lij (on expected upward trajectory) have trade value. The rest aren’t getting a first rounder.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Who?

Paul Sebastiani

 

[Michael Jezz]

Curnow and Owies in 2024 contributed 80 goals.

Who is replacing these goals if Curnow doesnt play...



Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

Motlop will replace Owies goals

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Paul Sebastiani

Paul has a history of being well off the mark with his info. Wouldn't be too concerned at this stage

 

[JustOneTime]

In terms of list mgmt, I've personally gone on a continual moan about our defence not being that great and it is something that austin needs to address. I've felt we needed a second key back (low expense like a Payne/Collins); I've also felt that most of our backline like handball receives and dont have a true defensive profile; players like Boyd, Mcgovern, Kemp, young who are all weak physically and get pushed around. We can carry Saad, but not Saad and others who cant defend one on one or who are body light (boyd/Ollie).

So i dont really get excited by Boyd/Ollie/(last season the soft tall def in Kemp/young) and Saad when it comes to the component of one on one body defending. I like them when it is rebound time. I dont like young at all, and poor Kemp just outsized and embarrassing. MCgovern is hit and miss and I dont think has a defenders mentality either; he has speed and a good kick. For Mcgovern, it is on his terms when he wants to be physical or completely avoid contact.

I do like cowan as a developing back but should still be in the VFL or 7th defender based on possessions he can gather. I like Weitering and I'm 100% that I would take Saad as that one small because of all of his other non-contested marking strengths. After that, Austin needs to get to work...or it is Vossy.

Another thing that frustrates me is over the last two years our smaller/thinner defenders who have to give up size/strength then dont use their counter advantage (rebound run, speed, and fast transition out of defence). They close up/lock up/get defensively scared and hold back trying their hardest not to be the reason for a goal (boyd/kemp/young surely). Carroll's two runs out of defence in the sim game so highlighted the lack of a straight line defensive running out of the backline. Saad zips left, zips right then makes his mind up in a split second without any planning in his head of where to kick it causing ...well causing chaos. No one can lead for Saad when he darts around like mad and then hook kicks it.

As an example to highlight what we need to fix...you profile the Pies defence and its balance of defending/attacking. Their list manager just brought in Houston/Perryman because of that balance requirement (lost Noble and Daicos/sidey not playing HBF in 2025). They've equally got defenders and rebounders who know 'AND' do their 'actual' role and the list manager sourced exp because Pies are in their window like 8 other teams. At Carlton, we have players like Boyd/Ollie who are simply conundrum for us as one cant find the ball enough and the other isnt going to be able to hold his ground one on one due to his light frame. Our list manager did nothing in the off season to rectify this...not that it is easy to do.

So Weitering trumps Moore on defence and that is about it for mine. They overall have us covered for physical defending but annoying the hell out of me they have us for meters gained x possession adv too. Both components covered and i'm only talking back 7 and the creative drive it creates for fast transition and overlap goals (overlap goals they definitely score against us).

Finally, to complete my frustrating we have the match committee forcing square pegs into round holes (Boyd/Ollie) when actually Docherty and Williams are much better options back there and actually have produced the right level of defence/attack. People are quick to forget because of 2 free kicks against Williams that he played extremely well for GWS on the HBF, averaged 23 possies and 400+ metres gained that puts him WAY ahead of a developing Ollie and Boyd. But that is too obvious to try...a key area that is soo poor...rebound/fast transition out of defence.

Rant ended.

Go Boyd, go Cowan...i'll love your 14 possies each week (10 light of what it needs to be) and average metres gained. Ollie has osme hope but just not one-on-one.

Ok, I ranted a little more.

Did I say that I love the idea of JSoS...there..a positive to end it.

 

[carlton_99]

Go Boyd, go Cowan...i'll love your 14 possies each week (10 light of what it needs to be) and average metres gained. Ollie has osme hope but just not one-on-one.

Why do multiple defenders need to be getting 20+ disposals? Brisbane who won the flag in 2024 had one and that was Zorko. Next highest was Wilmot with 19.8 and then Lester down at 14.4. They had just 4 defenders that averaged > 13 disposals per game. Carlton had 6 in the same year (Newman, Saad, McGovern, Weitering, Kemp and Boyd).

Now lets look at metres gained even though I am of the opinion it is one of the more useless stats in our game. Carlton had three defenders with 300+ metres gained per game (Newman, McGovern and Saad), whilst Brisbane had 2 (Zorko and Wilmot). Even if you lower the threshold to 250+ metres gained per game Carlton have four (others + Boyd) and Lions have 3 (others + McKenna).

And just a reminder defensively, Carlton were a very strong team when it came to defending turnover - this is the hardest source to defend. Their sticking point was defending stoppage an area where they were the best in the comp in 2023 - so they have shown they can do it. For me the issue was more the midfield than anything but regardless the personnel back their have shown they have be a very strong defensive unit. They do however need support up the ground from the midfield and the forwards.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Boyd is a perfectly capable player. Only reason he doesn't average more touches is because he plays as a lockdown defender most of the time.

If he gets the right role I'd have zero doubts that he'd have a big impact as a key distributor. He's played some fantastic games when the shackles have been released.

Ollie I can understand the doubts, he's a wait and see for the time being. Still very small but his run is elite.

 

[JustOneTime]

Why do multiple defenders need to be getting 20+ disposals? Brisbane who won the flag in 2024 had one and that was Zorko. Next highest was Wilmot with 19.8 and then Lester down at 14.4. They had just 4 defenders that averaged > 13 disposals per game. Carlton had 6 in the same year (Newman, Saad, McGovern, Weitering, Kemp and Boyd).

Now lets look at metres gained even though I am of the opinion it is one of the more useless stats in our game. Carlton had three defenders with 300+ metres gained per game (Newman, McGovern and Saad), whilst Brisbane had 2 (Zorko and Wilmot). Even if you lower the threshold to 250+ metres gained per game Carlton have four (others + Boyd) and Lions have 3 (others + McKenna).

And just a reminder defensively, Carlton were a very strong team when it came to defending turnover - this is the hardest source to defend. Their sticking point was defending stoppage an area where they were the best in the comp in 2023 - so they have shown they can do it. For me the issue was more the midfield than anything but regardless the personnel back their have shown they have be a very strong defensive unit. They do however need support up the ground from the midfield and the forwards.

A single defender doesnt have to average anything; what you quoted is out of context of the theme of the post and easy to do. The theme of the post ties metres gained, disposal and defensive profile together. You separate each parameter and counter - your prerogative (I group them together). The defensive profile bit isnt something easily argued from any stand point and if you want easily dismissed if you choose to.

Looking into 2025 and taking starting back 7s, I've had a look at metres gained + disposals as a group of 7. We lose to both Lions/Pies. Pies by quite a bit because they have built a rebound/faster style of play. We lose to the Lions 'just' as a group on disposals per defender and what they can do it with the ball in terms of metres gained mostly because the Lions are a close match to how Carlton play - stoppage with good talls either end.

A few here dismiss metres gained. I 'really' like it because it shows a player looking forward of the play in an attacking light and takes courage. The opposite of that IMO is a player like Young 75% of the time looks backwards or sideways (lacks the courage to take the game on). Another reason why i like metres gained personally, because some of the players I like best have this trait like Gulden, Blakey, Houston, Danger, Young, Warner. I even like Cripps/Bontem in this category as they get a discount for the inside mid role. And yes, forwards (the final receivers) cant shine in this stat. But it is a great stat for mine in getting to the forwards and giving them 'easy chances', not hard chances.

As for my reach on defensive profile, i will only cite the eye test. Starcevich and Maynard either in he air or on the ground are close to immovable...we have no one close except Weitering but then Pies have Moore/Andrews on top. Both sides mix' of defenders one on one and rebounders are better than ours. We have Weitering as a defender and i'll give Haynes a pass too. The rest dont equate to the balance of the lions.

My point is that Austin has maybe has had a couple of years to address the mix. No paynes/maynard to stand under the pack...no starcevich body type of hold ground, our defenders simply dont want to do that and are light in weight. Instead of targeting defenders, we what...put Ollie back there? I mean really...what is he? Teams are recruiting more on filling much needed roles. Ollie is a wannabe mid who we tried on a wing and now trying him as a rebound defender. I think Ollie will do ok on the rebounding bit but will get upended on the body on body contests.

Fast forward to the moment a high ball comes in and its either Boyd, Ollie or Saad marking a taller opponent. I dont doubt two of these players are good and one is ok. I doubt the balance is right if 3 of these player in the same back 7.

 

[JustOneTime]

Boyd is a perfectly capable player. Only reason he doesn't average more touches is because he plays as a lockdown defender most of the time.

If he gets the right role I'd have zero doubts that he'd have a big impact as a key distributor. He's played some fantastic games when the shackles have been released.

Ollie I can understand the doubts, he's a wait and see for the time being. Still very small but his run is elite.

It is not about Boyd. Though he is fringe 22. It is about mix. We dont want Boyd, Ollie and Saad in the same back 6 at the same time. We lose body on body, we lose marking and we lose intimidation. It Boyd or Ollie. and it is on austin to find a starcevich unless Cowan is his hanswer to that as a Starcevich light version. But Cowan would be fringe at either Pies or Lions developing in the VFL. So again, 'we have a problem houston'!!