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List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion

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If Fletcher was a Victorian-based player, the media and fans would be all over his talent. A 20 year old who hasn’t missed a game since debuting in a premiership contending/winning side that can play wing, half back and likely forward of the ball equally well. They don’t grow on trees.

We know how important he is to us, and to have him on the cusp of a four year extension is fantastic news.
 
pod17 said:
If Fletcher was a Victorian-based player, the media and fans would be all over his talent. A 20 year old who hasn’t missed a game since debuting in a premiership contending/winning side that can play wing, half back and likely forward of the ball equally well. They don’t grow on trees.

We know how important he is to us, and to have him on the cusp of a four year extension is fantastic news.
Click to expand...

Not to mention he is very likely to transition into the middle. What a talent he is.
 
Nunez said:
Not to mention he is very likely to transition into the middle. What a talent he is.
Click to expand...
Be interesting what we do running players through the mid
Currently Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage and Will Ashcroft
Then Rayner a few times a game
Bailey now and then

Wings been Levi, Berry and Bailey.

We have Levi Ashcroft and Jasper Fletcher who you think should get minutes.
So too Berry.
Marshall and next year Annable be after time who knows if Dev/Tunstill still be here.

Where you swap as well.. McCluggage and Ashcroft can do wing/HF.. Dunks can go forward.
Neale really just stays in the middle and lurks forward.
Also have Linc coming back for a HF role who can run through the mid as well
 

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GenericUsername202 said:
Starc needs to be careful. He's one bad headknock away from potentially being retired. Did anyone watch the Carlton game where his head bounced off the turf after a tackle? He went down for a moment holding his head, before he got up again. I don't want to say it, because I hope he has a long career and he's one of our best players, but he seems like a ticking time bomb to me. Maybe saying that, the club are being careful as well and offering him less years than he would like.
Click to expand...
This is exactly why Starce needs to take what ever deal and money is the best IMO. I hope he stays, but if the Eagles are offering a good amount more money, he would be a fool not to take it, given it looks like he is only one bad knock away from his career being over.
 
twhowler said:
I think you could hide it, but players would be very unlikely to given all of the retired players coming out with major issues
Click to expand...
I think you are underestimating professional athletes ability to both hide things, live in denial about the real dangers they are putting themselves in and the complete lack of care about everything other than winning.
 
Hanley said:
I don't think it's right that we have three years free of salary cap pain if a player retires from concussions. I think there is a sliding scale along the lines of 100% in the year they go out, 90% the next year, then down to 50% and lower until about five years out when it's all on the club. I'm sure I heard that on SEN, possibly Cal Twomey on fireball a month or so ago. The player gets paid either way, this is about how much cap space the club gets...
Click to expand...

If a player has to retire based on the assessment of that independent medical board thingo, then the player payments should not be counted under the salary cap.
 
This is a more up to date article (May 2025) on injury payments
.......................................................................

As part of the previous Injury and Hardship Fund, former players have also been eligible to receive payments of up to $500,000 should they have sustained a football-ending injury during their playing career.

The new 'Severe Injury Benefit' will be in addition to the existing 'Football-Ending Injury Benefit' payments, which remain as part of the new agreement, but is now more relevant to reduced career earnings away from football.

www.afl.com.au

AFLPA launches revamped $54m injury fund for ex-players

Former players whose football injuries have significantly limited their future earning capacity could receive up to $600,000
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
......................................................

At a guess i think insurance would pay the player either directly, via the AFL or the Club.
The premiums paid by the AFL/Clubs/possibly even the players pitch in would be huge.

Unless the AFL self-insures like some large companies/councils/gov departments do for Workers Compensation
 
I will put this here.

“He’s definitely ramping up his training, and he joined in some skills the other day, and I thought ‘that’s happened quickly’, but he’s going along OK at the moment,” Fagan said of McCarthy.

“It’s a day-by-day, week-by-week thing, but he’s trying to give himself the best chance to get back and be available if we are good enough to make finals.

“He’s incredibly desperate. That’s why he’s doing it. I look at him and thinking ‘you’re crazy’, but he wants to try, and I don’t want to stop him, so that’s where all that’s at.”

McCarthy would add further depth to Brisbane’s forward line should he become available before the end of the season.

www.foxsports.com.au

Lions star’s ‘crazy’ attempt at ACL recovery in bid to feature in premiership push

‘You’re crazy’: Lions star’s ‘incredibly desperate’ recovery bid revealed
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au
 
A little bit of fluff, enjoy the feelgood story. I have not posted the link as it is the HS

The ascension of Hugh McCluggage and Cam Rayner leaves Lions poised to strike in September​

The Lions are on the verge of doing what the last two premiers couldn’t, make the finals when defending the crown. Garry Lyon writes, the fate of the premiership defence lies with two men.
Garry Lyon


ac18b7e9ca782070017821cd13d8e0f9




The Brisbane Lions are on the verge of achieving what the previous two premiers were unable to do: make the finals following the year you won the flag.
Geelong ended up 12th after being crowned champions in 2022, and Collingwood, after tasting the ultimate success in 2023, finished ninth.
The Lions are currently second on the ladder and will almost certainly take their place in September. All that remains to be seen is from which position they will attempt to defend their title.
That achievement is to be acknowledged, given the challenges facing defending champions.
To put yourself in contention again, lost of things have to go right. A little luck with injury, pinching a win when not expected and the accelerated development of younger players among them.
The Lions are in a strong position to defend their crown. Picture :Michael Klein

The Lions are in a strong position to defend their crown. Picture :Michael Klein
But you also need your stars to come back with a mindset that ‘once is never enough’. The celebrated teams over the years are the ones that keep coming back for more. That are able to maintain the hunger that pushes your mind and body to places that only a premiership medallion satisfies.
Not ever having had that challenge, it is to be admired almost above any other quality. The temptation to sit back and enjoy the view from the top of the mountain would be overwhelming. To start again the next year, from the bottom, knowing all of the hardship and toil required to just get back with a chance to summit, has proven too great for even the strongest and most committed minds.
So, as the Lions set out from base camp this year, the eyes of the football world were on high alert for any sign that the premiership celebrations may have sated the appetite of this Chris Fagan-led team from Queensland.
And maybe there is part of the answer that we are looking for, if there was one man who would not allow satisfaction with success to get in the way of defending their title it would be Fagan. But would his players return with a similar hunger?

After 17 games of footy, the signs are good. 12 wins and a draw and the Lions are well placed with six games to play. But the fact remains if they are to repeat, they all need to be even better than they were last year.
And the man set to play game number 200 this Friday night, Hugh McCluggage, has helped set a standard that defies complacency. His year has been simply brilliant and his standing and reputation in the game reflects that.
[PLAYERCARD]Hugh McCluggage[/PLAYERCARD]’s stocks continue to soar. Picture: Mark Stewart

Hugh McCluggage’s stocks continue to soar. Picture: Mark Stewart
With a top four finish in the best and fairest and a magnificent finals series to his name, McCluggage is the poster boy for why the Lions are once again in this premiership race up to their eyeballs. He wants more.
When was the last time you can remember McCluggage playing a poor game? When can you remember him fumbling a ball under pressure, or missing a target by foot or not kicking a clutch goal when it is needed most.
He is one of those players that, unless you are paying attention, you can take for granted. He never hesitates in his attack on the ball, he rarely loses his feet and, and this is the ultimate compliment, almost always leaves the Lions in a better position as result of him having won possession.
He puts the absolute highest premium on his possessions, a joy to watch in an era of players amassing huge numbers with little impact to show for it.
For players that have played 200 games or more, he sits ninth for all time score assists.
It’s not surprising that seven of the other eight were premiership players, only Robbie Gray didn’t taste that ultimate success.
But the fact Gray sits at No.1 on the list suggests he couldn’t have done more from his end.
It also includes four of Geelong’s premiership heroes in Matthew Stokes, Joel Selwood, Stevie Johnson and Gary Ablett.
And Hawthorn’s Cyril Rioli and Luke Breust as well as Christian Petracca from the Demons. It is a badge of honour to be worn proudly. The selflessness of the great Geelong teams was a feature of the way they played, the magic and creativity of Rioli and Gray, the longevity of Breust and the rampaging Petracca at his very best.

An AA Lock?​

2025 AFL season​

Brisbane Lions

Hugh​

McCluggage​

27 yrs
|
185 cm
|
83 kg

Games
17
Tackles
86
Clearances
94
Disposals
443
Goals
9
Inside Fifty
99
Contested Possessions
187
Uncontested Possessions
271
View Player
Brought to you by
It is elite company to be keeping and it underlines just how highly rated McCluggage should be, and increasingly is.
McCluggage has backed up his premiership year and come back an even better player. He is enjoying career high numbers in disposals, contested possessions, clearances and score involvements.
It is exactly the kind of statement that the Lions were looking for from one its very best leaders. It would appear there is unfinished business for McCluggage, and he only needs to walk past the honour board to understand that legendary greatness for this Lions organisation is not achieved with a single premiership.
And while McCluggage coming back as an even better player this year is probably no great surprise, given the standard he has been at for a number of years, the continued steps taken to potential greatness by Cam Rayner has been confirmation of his arrival as a star of this game.
Rayner has been a slow burn since being taken at pick No.1 in the 2017 draft. He caught fire last year and deserved his spot in the All Australian squad of 40.
But anyone watching him going about his work this season can see a young man who has arrived at that point in his career where he arrogantly, in a good way, understands that at his best he is nigh on unstoppable.
There are few of that calibre in the competition. We saw it with Dustin Martin, Marcus Bontempelli is peerless when he’s rolling, Petracca had it going at his absolute peak and is rediscovering it, Pat Dangerfield still has it, Patrick Cripps can’t be stopped when he’s in full flight and Matt Rowell is a wrecking ball.
Cam Rayner needs to have another big September. Picture: Albert Perez/Getty Images

Cam Rayner needs to have another big September. Picture: Albert Perez/Getty Images
Rayner has this capability and is just now understanding how to use it. He is not at the level of the above mentioned, but in his moments he is destructive. You can see it in his eyes. Where once he would have attempted to go around, he now goes through. He was never an apologetic tackler, but now he has weaponised that side of his game and young Matt Carroll from Carlton was the poor recipient of his power last Thursday night. He is a nightmare match up for the opposition, for while he may be short of the exalted company I’ve just listed, he has them all covered when it comes to the aerial side of things. He can genuinely jump on heads and doesn’t lose his shape in the heaviest of marking packs.
He is finding more of the ball than he ever has and is having career high impact on the score board. With confidence in his own game growing be is becoming more adventurous, and having greater impact all over the ground. In fact, the last six weeks he has won more of his footy in the back half than he has anywhere else.
Like McCluggage, Rayner has backed up his outstanding year and is arguably at the peak of his powers.
The success or otherwise doesn’t simply lie with the old campaigners like Lachie Neale, Harris Andrews and Dayne Zorko. Their best has helped carry this side so far, but along with Josh Dunkley, the Ashcroft boys, Logan Morris, Darcy Wilmot, Jaspa Fletcher and Kai Lohmann, McCluggage and Rayner are leading this group back towards the promised land.
This is no time to rest. There is work to be done. And this Lions group still appear to have a healthy appetite.
 
GenericUsername202 said:
Starc needs to be careful. He's one bad headknock away from potentially being retired. Did anyone watch the Carlton game where his head bounced off the turf after a tackle? He went down for a moment holding his head, before he got up again. I don't want to say it, because I hope he has a long career and he's one of our best players, but he seems like a ticking time bomb to me. Maybe saying that, the club are being careful as well and offering him less years than he would like.
Click to expand...
There is salary cap relief for up to 3-years of a player contract (90% - 75% - 50%). Anything above this is at the clubs risk.
So you would hope/assume either shorter contract, heavily front loaded contract, or trigger based clauses for the longer term contract.
 
p4p1 said:
It should be 100% IMO.
Click to expand...
I don’t agree - it’s putting some accountability (and negotiating power) back on the clubs to not offer every player a 9 year deal (aka Melbourne). Players are fully within their rights to request it, but it will limit how many of these types of contracts a well managed club can reasonably carry.
 

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braddsey said:
I don’t agree - it’s putting some accountability (and negotiating power) back on the clubs to not offer every player a 9 year deal (aka Melbourne). Players are fully within their rights to request it, but it will limit how many of these types of contracts a well managed club can reasonably carry.
Click to expand...
But the relief only lasts for three years. It wouldn't cover all of a 9 year deal.
 
I think this year has already shown we are short in all aspects of KPP currently, which everyone has identified for sometime. I think this is especially true of the availability of a 200cm + FF or FB in the current setup. If Harris goes down I can't see any replacement in our current squad.

From all the talk and chatter possible likely ins next year:
Oscar Allen - will be a welcome addition - we may play a less bomb and hope game plan though as he can take a contested mark but doesn't have the physicality to overpower a lot of team's number 1 KPD IMO
Annable - seems like another mid Jet
Waller - project ruck? (Boothey from all reports may have more tools but a 2 year project ruck then another project ruck sounds good too)
Geesu - small forward with genuine speed which is a bit of a gap in our current roster

A replacement ruck: Draper and/or Heath have been mentioned in different guises (I would prefer Heath over Draper as the injury he has had could lead to another Doedee situation)

Who are the outs?

Out of Contract this year:
Starce - Really hope we can retain him
Ah Chee - Again hope we can retain
McKenna - a bit of a wildcard can now play a role forward or back but not a solid best 22 and would be at other clubs
Craven - I think may be delisted (in hindsight I believe it would have been prudent to possibly delist last year and pick up Dobson but its always 20/20 after the fact)
Gardiner - He does a job and should be kept- but wonder if he could get a more consistent gig in another team seeking an experienced defender and possibly trade for a developing KPD? A big ask but could maybe happen?
Joyce - Worth a spot on minimal contract for cap balancing and a here and there job as he did last year
Dev Robertson - Likely time is up - I hope he does a Keayes and tears it up somewhere else with an opportunity
Tunstill - Seems he has gone past Robertson in the pecking order. May be worth keeping on but there will be a lot of depth in the midfield and more academy prospects in 2026 as well.
McCarthy - He should get another contract - may depend on if the radical knee surgery holds up
Beecken - I would hope he is a priority to keep as he has a lot of potential, albeit in a current area of some surplus.
Lester - Just keep signing him up until he says he is done
Day - assumed retirement
Zorko - See Lester above

Big O - With the current injury rumours I hope he can get back to something like his best or a version of but it doesn't sound great so could also be an Out.


So
In: Oscar Allen, Annable, Geesu, Waller, A Ruck, A KPD
Out: Dev Robertson, Craven, Day, McKenna / Tunstill, Big O, Gardiner

Very unsure on the last one - probably an area of need rather than a reality and Gardiner has been a great servant - maybe there would be interest in Tunstill / McKenna for a KPD?

Keen to hear what others think about the list of OOC players and what they would do.
 
If we don't get Sam Draper over the line I think Max Heath would be worth the question, OOC this year and if the Saints get TDK he could even be delisted so would cost minimal draft capital and salary cap space.

Hopefully O proves his body is up to another season, O, Fort, Smith and Draper or Heath should be enough.
 
RegionalLion said:
Lester - Just keep signing him up until he says he is done
Zorko - See Lester above
Click to expand...
Jon Ralph said on Fox Footy the other day that Zorko would continue next year with discussions starting in the next fortnight.
Meanwhile Zorko might have to wait slightly longer, though all signs point to the 36-year old earning an extension amid his own brilliant campaign across halfback.
“Also a Petroro client. About a fortnight away from starting those talks,” Ralph continued.
“But Brisbane footy boss Danny Daly says they want him have him there, he could be back-to-back All-Australian. It’s probably an August decision.
Click to expand...
 
Perrip said:
Jon Ralph said on Fox Footy the other day that Zorko would continue next year with discussions starting in the next fortnight.
Click to expand...
Incredible effort by Zorko. He would surely have to be the oldest player to debut, to then go onto play 300 games in the AFL era. I know Bradley and Tuck were late starters, but I can't think of any more recent examples.
 

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pod17 said:
Incredible effort by Zorko. He would surely have to be the oldest player to debut, to then go onto play 300 games in the AFL era. I know Bradley and Tuck were late starters, but I can't think of any more recent examples.
Click to expand...
Nailed it.

Six 300 gamers debuted when 20, Bradley when 22 and Zorko when 23.

Tuck actually debuted when 18, he was just in and out of the team in his first two years.
 
dlanod said:
Nailed it.

Six 300 gamers debuted when 20, Bradley when 22 and Zorko when 23.

Tuck actually debuted when 18, he was just in and out of the team in his first two years.
Click to expand...

Nice research. Lester might make 300 too, he’s getting better and better, might play until he’s 40. He’s the poster boy for never giving up.
 
There has been talk out of the Lions camp about the progress of McCarthy and that he will be available in a month. lets say ... he does everything right and somehow makes the AFL team for finals. Whats the movement of players? Do we push Ah Chee down back to replace Answerth? Can Callum play that role?
The other player that I still wonder if they can make it or not is Doedee. A few here have said no. But he is playing out games in the VFL. Should he be given a crack at AFL level to play the shut down role too down back. Same height as Starcevich, good intercept. Could we give him a crack for say 2 and a half quarters and sub in Bruce and do that for 2 weeks? I just don't know if our current backline after losing Payne and Answerth is good enough. I wonder if we need to see if someone else can go down there and beef it up.

I just feel the current best 22 is a little unders. Bailey comes back and that helps. I am still wondering if two ruckmen are good enough ad if so do we even give Smith a game? Theres also Day. Plenty to think about. But part of me would love to see Doedee have a run of some sorts.
 
lionsrules said:
There has been talk out of the Lions camp about the progress of McCarthy and that he will be available in a month. lets say ... he does everything right and somehow makes the AFL team for finals. Whats the movement of players? Do we push Ah Chee down back to replace Answerth? Can Callum play that role?
The other player that I still wonder if they can make it or not is Doedee. A few here have said no. But he is playing out games in the VFL. Should he be given a crack at AFL level to play the shut down role too down back. Same height as Starcevich, good intercept. Could we give him a crack for say 2 and a half quarters and sub in Bruce and do that for 2 weeks? I just don't know if our current backline after losing Payne and Answerth is good enough. I wonder if we need to see if someone else can go down there and beef it up.

I just feel the current best 22 is a little unders. Bailey comes back and that helps. I am still wondering if two ruckmen are good enough ad if so do we even give Smith a game? Theres also Day. Plenty to think about. But part of me would love to see Doedee have a run of some sorts.
Click to expand...

Doedee had such an unfortunate stop/start season that he looks a fair bit off pace at the moment. I hope he builds form over coming weeks so just like McCarthy, he's available as a break the glass type in case we need it.
 
lionsrules said:
There has been talk out of the Lions camp about the progress of McCarthy and that he will be available in a month. lets say ... he does everything right and somehow makes the AFL team for finals. Whats the movement of players? Do we push Ah Chee down back to replace Answerth? Can Callum play that role?
The other player that I still wonder if they can make it or not is Doedee. A few here have said no. But he is playing out games in the VFL. Should he be given a crack at AFL level to play the shut down role too down back. Same height as Starcevich, good intercept. Could we give him a crack for say 2 and a half quarters and sub in Bruce and do that for 2 weeks? I just don't know if our current backline after losing Payne and Answerth is good enough. I wonder if we need to see if someone else can go down there and beef it up.

I just feel the current best 22 is a little unders. Bailey comes back and that helps. I am still wondering if two ruckmen are good enough ad if so do we even give Smith a game? Theres also Day. Plenty to think about. But part of me would love to see Doedee have a run of some sorts.
Click to expand...

You'd think Linc only comes in for an injured like-for-like. If there is no injury, perhaps sub? I've no doubt the coaches have set expectations around what his return might look like.

The biggest issue is our defence running a bit thinner. If the groundball stats revert back to early last season then we have a problem and changes will need to be made.

It isn't clear how far away Doedee is. I see him more as a 2026 prospect, but it would be good if he could progress over the next month to be capable of playing seniors if needed. Same goes for Kiddy, if he can get back to capable of playing seniors by finals, it'll give us room to move.
 
If Linc is back to full fitness I wonder if we'll keep him on via a 1 year contract like Lester.

He'll be a great fall back option for next year as well if/when needed.
 

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