List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion

[mattsmob]

How am I being selfish; for wanting the best for the Lions. Thought anyone on this board would too. Clearly not. Most seem to want players just making bank over the greater good of the Lions. Christ, Ambroggio even said Ah Chee was provided with a significant offer. So what exactly am I being entitled about; valuing loyalty over money? Enlighten me.

I think you’re being pretty disrespectful to the players leaving by calling them selfish and only caring about the money. Anyways I’m not getting into a debate with you on it cause you’re obviously pretty stuck in your ways

 

[pod17]

View attachment 2447829

We all remember how this ended for George, we best be cautious!

 

[ZoBlitz]

In conclusion, players are lands of contrast.

 

[BangyBangy]

I can only imagine what the Hawks board was like when Buddy decided to leave lol.

 

[Nathan Barley]

How am I being selfish; for wanting the best for the Lions. Thought anyone on this board would too. Clearly not. Most seem to want players just making bank over the greater good of the Lions. Christ, Ambroggio even said Ah Chee was provided with a significant offer. So what exactly am I being entitled about; valuing loyalty over money? Enlighten me.

Being understanding of someones decision is not the same as being supportive of the decision

 

[Happy_Neale]

Yep and you also are stuck in your ways.

I'll continue supporting the club and players loyal to the club - not those that would rather be anywhere but the Lions.

And for that, I'm disrespectful, selfish and entitled (how I'll never know) and from what I can tell, Robbie Copeland is an idiot for not taking the money.

That will do on the topic for me.

I think you need to get with the times, the game is commercial now and that means endorsements, bigger contracts and money to burn particularly for the teams low on the ladder. Don’t forget how many we have traded in over the years. If everyone lived by your rigid mantra of loyalty above all we wouldn’t have Neale, Dunkley, Daniher, Cameron et al and by extension back to back flags.

 

[Thomasno]

Nope, I believe the Lions hold the upper hand here.

We effectively control whether West Coast receives pick 2 or pick 20. No club in their right mind would turn down pick 2 for Oscar.

Now that we’ve seen where Band 2 compensation lands (e.g., Draper), we can easily structure Oscar’s contract to suit either outcome.

If the Eagles want pick 2, they’ll need to play ball with us.

I’m not sure the AFL would look kindly on us playing funny buggers with contracts again after they gave us a very stern warning when we did it with Daniher.

Especially with the added media scrutiny on us now with our draft rorts + 2x flags; I feel like that’s just asking for a trade ban.

 

[M Malice]

I think you need to get with the times, the game is commercial now and that means endorsements, bigger contracts and money to burn particularly for the teams low on the ladder. Don’t forget how many we have traded in over the years. If everyone lived by your rigid mantra of loyalty above all we wouldn’t have Neale, Dunkley, Daniher, Cameron et al and by extension back to back flags.

Yep I have just as much admiration, footy love and appreciation for the players you mentioned as I do for the likes of Bailey, McCluggage, Berry, Andrews, Gardiner or Lester.

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

I’m not sure the AFL would look kindly on us playing funny buggers with contracts again after they gave us a very stern warning when we did it with Daniher.

Especially with the added media scrutiny on us now with our draft rorts + 2x flags; I feel like that’s just asking for a trade ban.

The AFL CEO is Greg Swann, daddy will back us.

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

Yep and you also are stuck in your ways.

I'll continue supporting the club and players loyal to the club - not those that would rather be anywhere but the Lions.

And for that, I'm disrespectful, selfish and entitled (how I'll never know) and from what I can tell, Robbie Copeland is an idiot for not taking the money.

That will do on the topic for me.

 

[irel]

I’m not sure the AFL would look kindly on us playing funny buggers with contracts again after they gave us a very stern warning when we did it with Daniher.

Especially with the added media scrutiny on us now with our draft rorts + 2x flags; I feel like that’s just asking for a trade ban.

We were hit with a slap after the fact, the contract was re-negotiated following Daniher’s arrival at the Lions.

To my knowledge, no formal contract has been submitted to the AFL yet. It could reasonably be argued that the deal is still in the negotiation phase.

 

[bungalow_bill]

We all remember how this ended for George, we best be cautious!

 

[cmt26]

Personally I haven't lost any respect for players like Callum and Brandon and have zero inkling in me that they are being selfish and that the move away from the Lions is all about themselves.

In all likelihood the move is about setting their family up for the best life possible post their footy career and I would guarantee that the players they played with at the Lions will still consider them great life long friends and respect them immensely.

This hits the nail on the head perfectly.

 

[briztoon]

We have leverage in so much as they will lose pick 2 if we don’t put in an offer. Also, they can’t take both Starce and Allen in the PSD.

We would most likely lose Allen in this scenario as well.

It’s a hollow threat as far as I’m concerned.

No one is touching a player that doesn’t want to play there (particularly if a player communicates that, after how poorly GWS managed Cam McCarthy) so Brisbane could still take him in the PSD.

Gold Coast took a Freo player just last year in the Rookie draft, that Freo planned to re-rookie. He clearly told clubs he wanted to stay at Freo or head back to Melbourne, but GC picked him up anyway.

West Coast have a lot to gain by us taking Allen. If that means coughing up pick 16 to get pick 2 and Starce, that’s good business.

It’s way overs, it’s far from good business.

Losing access to pick 2 in a rebuild is very, very bad business

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Motivations, like decisions, may be multivariate.

It is not as simple as if-I-move-clubs-for-money-I-am-a-greedy-scrooge-without-a-care-for-anyone-else-but-my-pocketbook, or if-I-move-clubs-for-opportunity-I-am-a-disloyal-showpony, etc ...

I can, at the same time, hold the following values as relevant to my decision making process ... (noting that 'my club' refers to both my current club and the same at the club that I might consider moving to)

• the money me and my family will use to create/maintain a life after my footballing career ends
• the fellowship and mateship I have with my team mates and other club associates
• the glory of winning flags
• the opportunity I have to develop my game within the system at my club
• the opportunity I have to play in my best position at my club
• how professionally run my club is
• the quality/quantity of Bailey Smith/Clayton Oliver types at my club
• how likely it is the coach will give me a game
• the quality of the health and welfare staff at my club
• the non-defined post career benefits I may accrue at my club (one club player at Collingwood/Geelong vs spending your career at Freo or Saints or North)
• the amount of travel and the commensurate strain on my body and relationships
• the work life balance at my club
• the weather and lifestyle in my club's location
• the quality of the fans
• the training facilities
• the grounds we play at
• the quality of the groupies and how well the players are defended if needed
• who the coach is (and how stable the system)
• the club's reputation for dealing with previous players who have left/arrived
• how well my own personal energies fit with the egregore of the club
• how much scrutiny the players are under when they are away from the club
• etc etc etc

- oh and most importantly (of course) the quality of the BigFooty posters on my team's board and how well they keep their cool in the game day threads.

My rule of thumb is to treat the people leaving us with the same respect and judgement I apply to those who are arriving to join us. To despise Starc and Cal for leaving I would need to despise Dunks and Lachie and Cam for coming and already be ready to hate on Tom14 's new best friend and our (shorter) replacement Oscar.

Thank you Viceregal
You saved me a lot of thought and typing.
Of course it's multivariate.
And hardly ever, if never, dualistic ie. greed or loyalty.

 

[Saucery]

Yep and you also are stuck in your ways.

I'll continue supporting the club and players loyal to the club - not those that would rather be anywhere but the Lions.

And for that, I'm disrespectful, selfish and entitled (how I'll never know) and from what I can tell, Robbie Copeland is an idiot for not taking the money.

That will do on the topic for me.

 

[briztoon]

You have a great understanding of all the mechanisms and they can potentially be used, but can understate the other teams position at time. We have decent enough leverage in this scenario, that’s the reason why we’re looking at pick 22/23.

Except we’ve asked for pick 16, while West Coast has offered pick 23.

 

[mpal6]

I’m not sure the AFL would look kindly on us playing funny buggers with contracts again after they gave us a very stern warning when we did it with Daniher.

Especially with the added media scrutiny on us now with our draft rorts + 2x flags; I feel like that’s just asking for a trade ban.

I don't think we did anything untoward even last time with Daniher. He chose to re-sign at a slightly lower rate for 2 more years. We still had to pay whatever we signed up for, for the first 3 years so there was no re-jigging on the contract that triggered band 1.

They can't yell at Daniher for taking less, it was his choice to do so lol.

 

[mpal6]

Except we’ve asked for pick 16, while West Coast has offered pick 23.

I think for 16 we may have to fiddle with our current offer to push it to band 1.
For 22/23, we'll let it go and put the band 2 offer in for Allen.

 

[briztoon]

Nope, I believe the Lions hold the upper hand here.

Restricted free agency ends this Friday, so we have to put our offer in for Allen before the window closes.

The trade period ends next week, so West Coast can wait until next Monday to talk to us about Starcevich.

It’s a game of who blinks first. Unfortunately we have a deadline on our end.

We effectively control whether West Coast receives pick 2 or pick 20. No club in their right mind would turn down pick 2 for Oscar.

Now that we’ve seen where Band 2 compensation lands (e.g., Draper), we can easily structure Oscar’s contract to suit either outcome.

If the Eagles want pick 2, they’ll need to play ball with us.

 

[StevoJenkins]

Dylan12

If he were still here, he'd have an issue with only getting one first for Starce. If Tommy Cutler was worth 45 first rounders, Starce would be worth at least 44.

 

[ZoBlitz]

While I remember, just a reminder that I chuck up relevant trade news stories into this thread so you don't have to listen to Trade Radio (which I also don't do).

 

[Happy_Neale]

Yep I have just as much admiration, footy love and appreciation for the players you mentioned as I do for the likes of Bailey, McCluggage, Berry, Andrews, Gardiner or Lester.

‘Temporary custodians’

 

[Hollow Knight]

The pick 16 tactical leak thing is working nicely. Suddenly West Coast supporters who were aghast at the idea of trading their compensation pick are now suggesting that trading that pick instead of 16 would be a sign of West Coast being strong and sticking it to the Lions.

It’s all about giving the opponent the perception of saving face.

Is Dom. Is good.

 

[mpal6]

The pick 16 tactical leak thing is working nicely. Suddenly West Coast supporters who were aghast at the idea of trading their compensation pick are now suggesting that trading that pick instead of 16 would be a sign of West Coast being strong.

It’s all about giving the opponent the perception of saving face.

Is Dom. Is good.

I get the feeling AFL/Swann is going to blow this one up for West Coast by classifying Allen's offer as band 2 anyway.