List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[Joffaboy]

I don't see what their options are.
Assuming he's not going to forego millions of dollars in guaranteed wages.
They either blow up their list to keep him or downgrade their list to use the compensation pick they'll get for him.

But they have got that great one club man Chris Judd not to be a traitor and move clubs just for money

 

[mighty_sainters]

Carlton, Port and Adelaide losing in the same round is incredibly pleasing.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Carlton, Port and Adelaide losing in the same round is incredibly pleasing.

Collingwood is the only winner i tipped, but i still feel strangely satisfied.
Actually i would have preferred Geelong to lose.

 

[akaifu]

They can only have so many players on the list. We should be looking to pick some off. Alex Davies probably one that could be picked off.

Gruzewski at GWS is one I'd chase over Leek Aleer even. Wardius from them too. He's a gun forward, not tall but plays a bit like Membrey.

The midseason guy I really want is Donovan Toohey from Coburg. Good kick and a high production mid type, still young too.

Tbh I reckon Harry Himmelberg could be gettable too

Has been moved to a wing in recent weeks and seems like Kingsley is struggling to find an optimal position for him

Maybe slightly old but could be a good stopgap to relieve some pressure on Tauru/Barrat if we could get him for cheap

 

[SG34]

Carlton, Port and Adelaide losing in the same round is incredibly pleasing.

If Collingwood could have been added it would have been a perfect day!

 

[sasaint]

Who is most likely? ( And please don’t say King).

Cordy?

Dow

 

[SG34]

fmd i forgot about that as well

It makes me wonder, at what point in our 150+ years did the AFL/VFL cease to become our employee, and became our employer.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Tbh I reckon Harry Himmelberg could be gettable too

Has been moved to a wing in recent weeks and seems like Kingsley is struggling to find an optimal position for him

Maybe slightly old but could be a good stopgap to relieve some pressure on Tauru/Barrat if we could get him for cheap

He seems to get similar stats to Seb Ross. Not a lot of contested ball, not a lot of clearances.
So what's his strength?

 

[Saintos The ITK]

yep.
Blind Freddy did know, and Garry Lyon lost a bit of respect for me for saying it was a good idea in a faux-measured voice. At the time.

We know we are part of the franchise and are here for legacy reasons. Poor 'ol Fitzroy got screwed and they know they damaged the brand.

We are like that regional rail line that the authorities want to shut down, but can't for political reasons. In the meantime, we get old rolling stock and swinging gates at the crossings. Perhaps the public will eventually 'get it' that we just had to go.

So Sunday twilight.

After a demonstrably awful couple of Friday nights.

So how do we make the most of it?

Coaches can't say much anymore. Grant Thomas knew how the Barry Hall love punch cascaded into the next season, and onwards. Nothing can be said.

RTB needs life after coaching. Media, maybe? Maybe not.

At least our president punches.

Us fans can punch. Don’t ever let up on the campaigners.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Tdk won’t come to us but we will end up ****ing Carlton’s sc.

 

[hayes]

He seems to get similar stats to Seb Ross. Not a lot of contested ball, not a lot of clearances.
So what's his strength?

He’s a key defender/third tall.

 

[SG34]

Everybody hates AI and wants to ban it, but they, the AFL are using it, and clubs are too. (And so is Tax department)

Your question taps into a deep tension in modern sport: the battle between systemic inequality and the underdog’s fight for relevance or resurgence. In the context of St Kilda and similar AFL clubs seen as “minnows,” it's valid to ask if they’re structurally confined to a role of competitive tokenism. Let's break this down, and then look at global parallels.

---

### The AFL Landscape: Systemically Skewed?

Clubs like St Kilda, North Melbourne, and even the Western Bulldogs have faced:

• Uneven fixture allocations (prime-time games, travel burdens, crowd-attracting matchups often favor bigger clubs),
• Soft cap pressures, restricting off-field resources (recruitment, development, analytics),
• Media bias, which influences sponsorship and brand power,
• Tribunal inconsistency, often criticized for favoring market-drawing stars.

Meanwhile, clubs aligned with AFL expansion goals (like Sydney, GWS, Brisbane, and Gold Coast) benefit from:

• Generous draft concessions,
• Priority picks,
• Larger development budgets,
• Political backing from AFL HQ to “succeed” for market penetration.

So you're right: mid-tier Melbourne clubs are often stuck in an existential no man’s land—not commercially strong enough to dictate terms, not strategically valuable enough to be propped up.

---

### The Two Paths You Mentioned

1. Bottom Out for Draft Picks

* Risk: Players may leave at their peak (e.g., Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

25

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

speculation, Jason Horne-Francis).
* Reward: Success depends on elite development and retaining talent—like Geelong did in the 2000s.

2. Battle On with Retreads and Marginals

* A path to professionalism and possible finals contention, but rarely premiership glory.
* Best-case model: Brad Scott’s North Melbourne (2014–15 prelims) or Bulldogs 2016 (lightning in a bottle).

But both approaches rely on external variables falling into place, often with little institutional support.

---

### Global Case Studies: Underdogs Who Beat the System

Yes—there are sports clubs that have succeeded against systemic odds:

#### 1. Leicester City (Premier League, 2016)

• Built a counter-attacking system, recruited undervalued talent (Vardy, Mahrez, Kante).
• Took advantage of a chaotic year among elite clubs.
• Once-in-a-generation alignment of vision, chemistry, and luck.

#### 2. Green Bay Packers (NFL)

• Smallest market team in U.S. pro sports, publicly owned.
• Success built through elite QB play (Favre, Rodgers), strong internal culture, and draft development.
• They built a winning machine in a system designed to favor TV-market giants.

#### 3. Atalanta (Serie A)

• Provincial Italian club that punches far above its weight.
• Heavy focus on youth development, analytics, and a clear tactical identity.
• Qualified for multiple UEFA Champions League campaigns.

#### 4. Oakland A’s (MLB - early 2000s)

• Billy Beane’s “Moneyball” model: finding inefficiencies in talent valuation.
• Couldn’t buy stars, but found overlooked players who delivered wins.
• They didn’t win a title—but redefined sports strategy globally.

---

### So—What’s a Club Like St Kilda To Do?

If you’re looking for a third way, here it is:

Build a modern, ruthlessly efficient club culture that identifies undervalued players, nails draft picks, and creates a psychological and cultural advantage.

• Think Brentford FC in the EPL—modest budget, elite data scouting.
• Invest in areas where the AFL hasn't equalized: development, cohesion, tactical innovation, and culture.

It’s hard—but that’s the only way out of mediocrity when the system is skewed.

---

Would you like a strategic blueprint for a club like St Kilda to model itself after one of these global success stories—maybe a “Moneyball AFL club” concept or a Leicester-like upset path?

 

[akaifu]

He seems to get similar stats to Seb Ross. Not a lot of contested ball, not a lot of clearances.
So what's his strength?

What? Himmelberg is a 3rd tall key defender. Intercept marking and kicking. Pretty much an older version of Josh Battle

 

[seesalswigs44]

would’ve been nice if simon o’donnell played 80 more games for us. James can seriously play

 

[Teflon]

It's a damn shame. When he did play for us, his composure and ball use was miles ahead of anyone else in the side. It was a bit like "ah so that's what it's like to have a class player playing for us"

He was a class above what we had and it showed …just not often … I watched him thinking …geez to have had this guy in his prime…

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What? Himmelberg is a 3rd tall key defender. Intercept marking and kicking. Pretty much an older version of Josh Battle

OK i got that, guess i never paid much attention to GWS. He'd be ok.

 

[sammm]

would’ve been nice if simon o’donnell played 80 more games for us. James can seriously play

We could ve picked him

 

[stfan]

Dow

Why not both?

 

[wannabewinner]

King might end up being a masterstroke but right now he's probably one of four disappointments in the top 13 of a super draft. Tarryn Thomas, Chase Jones and Lukosius the only others that aren't guns.

Saints recruiters wanted Rozee. Got overruled by the CEO who said go with King.

Rozee is now Port’s captain while King is nowhere to be seen.

 

[gubby88]

Saints recruiters wanted Rozee. Got overruled by the CEO who said go with King.

Rozee is now Port’s captain while King is nowhere to be seen.

king is injured....not delisted....

 

[wannabewinner]

He seems to get similar stats to Seb Ross. Not a lot of contested ball, not a lot of clearances.
So what's his strength?

Height
Seb Ross 187cm
Harry Himmelberg 195cm

Harry’s also 27 years old and Seb Ross is 32 and was delisted last year.

 

[botts]

would’ve been nice if simon o’donnell played 80 more games for us. James can seriously play

He was a cat b rookie. If we were interested we could of had him but we didn’t bother

 

[wannabewinner]

king is injured....not delisted...

What an achievement…. He is also alive.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Would you please explain this?
Sounds interesting.

Sorry l don't know anything. It's just one of his key indicators.

 

[gringo2011]

So we get scraps while they continue to get free top 10 picks. No wonder I don't bother going to games any more

How many absolute stars have GWS and GC got from their 300 first round picks? For all the academy and FS picks you only remember the good ones.

Collingwood probably win the flag this year with barely any high picks in the last 20 years. Geelong too. Bulldogs have a few free hits but probably less access to high picks than us. The also let a heap of stars walk out.

Carlton and Essendon took a shit load of high picks and barely played finals in the last 20 years.

If we picked up any of the guys I suggested we would have a better list.