List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[gringo2011]

Clark and Coffield headlined the list of players that were overpaid based on potential trajectory of their careers.

That is a far worse outcome then TDK getting paid the most in the league but only getting best ruckmen in the league value.

That's not a problem if the players are good but we had too few good kids to spread it around between. If Clark and Coffield had been stars the wage was fine. It was list management and drafting that failed there.

 

[PJays]

Close to $4 million a year for two players. That's disastrous unless he's a top 10 player in the league.

This.

It honestly baffles me that more people don't understand this.

St Kilda seem to be gambling on him becoming a superstar.

Big gamble.

 

[gringo2011]

Personally i dont think the TDK $1.7m choice is the right one with where the list is at in the premiership window/cycle (god theres alot of cliches in there) but its also not an appalling bad choice like McCartin over Trac or Hanners.

I'd say it could be. It's a $1.7 million x 8 years gamble. If he ends up the next star ruck it looks genius. If it stuffs up it's another embarrassingly desperate act by a club that wants to buy talent in early to cover the last lot of mistakes again.

 

[gringo2011]

I will be shocked if Nas says he wants to leave.

Handy week to get a win while he's about to head home.

 

[gringo2011]

Unfortunately TDK- despite having the ability to jump on packs to clunk marks- rarely does so, for whatever reason. Averages less than 3 marks per game and less than 1 contested mark per game.

Marshall is a much better mark. TDK gets hands on lots of high balls but he's not his brother who is genuinely a safe pair of hands. Tom looks like Sharman where he promises to do something spectacular but drops through his hands more often than not.

 

[Joffaboy]

I've had similar opinions as the club on most of our targets. They were form players who were pretty obvious though.

TDK is a little less obvious IMO. His best is good but his down games are a worry. To me there is a good chance that he never makes elite and hovers around a B+ level.

I think he's got the same limitations as Marshall but a little less good around the ground marking, slightly better taps due to his leap but still a dump kicker. Carlton lose games more than win when he plays over Pittonet. Marshall is the opposite and has won us lots of matches.

To me it's just not worth it. Today on SEN they were suggesting Nas is worth as much as him if that's what we're paying for TDK.

Close to $4 million a year for two players. That's disastrous unless he's a top 10 player in the league.

Do because they said it on SEN, he is actually getting paid that? Is that correct the or just an extrapolation?

One thing I will say, if we land TDK and somehow miss out on resigning NAZ, I will just about give up on this club.

What an unmitigated disaster after the Battle debacle of last year.

One last thing everyone on here is ignorant of the SC structure at the Saints. People proclaiming that they know anything about it actually don't. You are making stuff up.

 

[PandaG]

Football commentator on Ch7 was saying, TDK is 2nd in the competition with hit outs to advantage….and this is where it begins

Max Gawn said he will be the best ruck in the comp

 

[PJays]

One last thing everyone on here is ignorant of the SC structure at the Saints. People proclaiming that they know anything about it actually don't. You are making stuff up.

No one is making anything up. We're using publicly available information and reasoning from that.

The people who are ignorant are those blindly assuming a 7 year contract and the highest paid player won't hurt our salary cap long-term, all because we're in a good cap position for next year.

 

[Joffaboy]

I'd say it could be. It's a $1.7 million x 8 years gamble. If he ends up the next star ruck it looks genius. If it stuffs up it's another embarrassingly desperate act by a club that wants to buy talent in early to cover the last lot of mistakes again.

Considering it is known that the extra SC is used it or lose it, who do you propose we use it on?
What strategy would you use to improve our list like the big four does by attracting established players considering we are continually forced to have a poor draw, FS and NGA inequities and always at a threat of any players we happen to develop, like Battle and now NAZ to be taking by one of the bigger clubs?
I don't think TDK is a world beater, I think 1.7 is way overs. However we are forced to look at these radical options because the easy ones aren't afforded us. You call us desperate, of course we are, we go into recruiting and drafting with one hand tied behind our backs by the corrupt AFL.

Anyway TDK is only the most obvious end of year recruit. There are always recruits that aren't spoken about and it might be part of a larger package.

Also this is why many are loathe to take the money offered. The pressure and criticism of the player will be hysterical if he isn't BoG every game. That's a reason Callaghan resigned with the Giants.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Draft Guru has him as a B+.That's where I'd have him too.

Young enough to keep improving though. It’s not a bad start.

 

[topbillings]

 

[PJays]

Considering it is known that the extra SC is used it or lose it, who do you propose we use it on?

Please understand that this is only 5% of the salary cap.

Each club must spend 95%. So St Kilda is already spending 95%. We've "lost" the rest.

It can be 10% though.

There is a mechanism where you can go over 100% if you're still under 100% across 2 years. So if St Kilda was 95% this year, theoretically they could spend 105% in 2026 and go back to 100% in 2027.

So when you say "use it or lose it" you're talking About Max 10% and you're talking about one season only.

This isn't a 1 year deal we're offering here!

What strategy would you use to improve our list like the big four does by attracting established players

There is only one way.

Build through the draft.

Then, once it's clear the club is heading in the right direction (according to consensus not just rusted on Saints fans), then you can attract FAs and trades without paying too far over.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Do because they said it on SEN, he is actually getting paid that? Is that correct the or just an extrapolation?

One thing I will say, if we land TDK and somehow miss out on resigning NAZ, I will just about give up on this club.

What an unmitigated disaster after the Battle debacle of last year.

One last thing everyone on here is ignorant of the SC structure at the Saints. People proclaiming that they know anything about it actually don't. You are making stuff up.

I know nothing about the salary cap and what $$$ we’ve got, but Bassat came out quite openly a little while back and said we have more than enough to look after our own players as well as get TDK and possibly others done.

Only, guessing here, but I reckon he’d know what he is talking about.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Pretty sure his best mates here, Owens and Windy, would have plenty of pull too. He lives with them.
And that’s not to mention Hilly, Mason and Keeler.

 

[ThomasR]

Also this is why many are loathe to take the money offered. The pressure and criticism of the player will be hysterical if he isn't BoG every game. That's a reason Callaghan resigned with the Giants.

Not to mention we will in all likelihood trade out one of our favourite sons if TDK does come across.

If Carlton moves on a Curnow/McKay and manages to up their offer to the same postcode as the ballpark, could easily see him staying on for much less than what we're offering

 

[Sarcoidevo]

This.

It honestly baffles me that more people don't understand this.

St Kilda seem to be gambling on him becoming a superstar.

Big gamble.

No we are gambling on him to help us win more center clearances and get the ball going our way moreso than the direction of the opposition goals

 

[aussierulesrules]

I think the debate about TDK is pretty much a moot point, because Graeme Wright is now calling the shots at Carlton and he’s said to be highly opposed to giving anyone an inflated contract, so the likelihood that they’ll increase their offer to Tom in any meaningful way is extremely low, which means our offer to him is likely to be $4-5mil more than theirs, and it sounds like that’s too good for him to refuse.

So the question then becomes, what do we do next, assuming he does come?

Is Max, Ro, Sharman and Owens too tall a forward line?

And if we go with that, what do we do with Keeler, who has talent up the wazoo and needs game time?

Does he go back? But then if so, do we still go for Aleer, when we’ve already got Wilkie, Caminiti and Keeler, and also need to find room for Tauru?

Or do we give Ro the flick, and go with Max, Keeler, Sharman and Owens forward?

Then do we we still go for Aleer, if we’ve got Wilkie and Caminiti and need to find room for Tauru?

One way or another, we’re looking like having a surplus of “talls”, if we get TDK. Especially if we also get Aleer.

It will be fascinating to see how this plays out.

You’d have to think Ro going would be a huge chance. Because A: we’d get a good return for him (or we wouldn’t trade him) and B: he’d free up a chunk of cap space.

We don’t need all of TDK, Ro, Max, Keeler, Sharman, Owens, Wilkie, Caminiti, Aleer and Tauru.

 

[Teflon]

Geez had to wade through a ton of TDK shit on this thread to get to the real news …NAS
FFS focus people we have 1 job…sign NAS
TDK is steak knives

 

[PJays]

Graeme Wright is now calling the shots at Carlton and he’s said to be highly opposed to giving anyone an inflated contract,

Where can St Kilda find someone like this?

Can we sign him instead of De Koning?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Geez had to wade through a ton of TDK shit on this thread to get to the real news …NAS
FFS focus people we have 1 job…sign NAS
TDK is steak knives

I’m sure the plan is to do both.

 

[Moquo]

Pretty sure his best mates here, Owens and Windy, would have plenty of pull too. He lives with them.
And that’s not to mention Hilly, Mason and Keeler.

Not sure if this is already posted, but sounds positivish
https://www.afl.com.au/news/1335194...t-st-kilda-saints-as-decision-on-future-looms

 

[aussierulesrules]

Pretty sure his best mates here, Owens and Windy, would have plenty of pull too. He lives with them.
And that’s not to mention Hilly, Mason and Keeler.

Keeler, in case you’re not aware, is one of his relos who he grew up with. So he not only has great friends here, but also family. Plus his stepfather played here!

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Pretty sure his best mates here, Owens and Windy, would have plenty of pull too. He lives with them.
And that’s not to mention Hilly, Mason and Keeler.

People are forgetting Port have no 1st rounder to trade this year .... they currently have pick 22 which will likely blow out beyond pick 30

So what are Port giving us?

What are Adelaide giving us?

They have pick 16 ... so in reality pick 25 or thereabouts .....and then pick 43 so probably 50 ..... next year they likely finish top 4 .... so that will be around pick 20+

Both these teams won't be able to / cannot satisfy us

Good chance Wanga has gone home to tell his family he is staying in Melbourne ... with the Saints

 

[Diehard Saint]

Keeler, in case you’re not aware, is one of his relos who he grew up with. So he not only has great friends here, but also family. Plus his stepfather played here!

Yep I did read this on here recently. Probably on one of your posts
Even better.
Of course I remember Terry Milera.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Good chance Wanga has gone home to tell his family he is staying in Melbourne ... with the Saints