List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[Klaatu]

There will be no movements on contracts i would think until Nas indicated one way or another where he is at, that will give the club an idea on what can be spent on other players.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Cal said on Gettable clubs are coming for Steele

VAFA clubs??

 

[Klaatu]

Just out of curiosty how have other sides faired during this period minus F/S & academy picks maybe you would find just as many misses and mistakes all clubs do it.

How many outside players from other clubs are playing at Collingwood & Geelong ?

 

[phantom13]

The club will get the answer on if a player is joining - A long way out.

With the exception of trade period where sometimes things happen unexpectedly.

Remember, they need to manage a list of players. They need certainty about those joining to manage the existing list.

What the media is portraying is just a narrative. They need stories to fill the airwaves and back pages.

An answer that can and often does change.
TDK saying yes now means **** all of Carlton finds some more cash at seasons end. Mumurings about Walsh and McKay continue to grow, if one of them goes and Carlton tells TDK he can get an extra $200k his handshake with us is meaningless (if we even have one).

 

[gringo2011]

The 2013 draft didn't work for us long term because none of the three we drafted in the top 20 became long-term A-grade players.

Billings' output at St Kilda is underrated, but we thought we were drafting someone who would eventually have a career to stand along side those of Hayes, Dal Santo, Goddard and Montagna and we got 155 games at 20 disposals and 0.75 goals per game. If that is a pick 25 you'd be pretty happy.

Dunstan never improved. End of.

We traded 2019 Acres to get under contract Brad Hill because Fremantle insisted. Eventually he became 2023 Blake Acres who was probably superior to 2023 Mason Wood.

Then Clark/Coffield. Coff finished top 5 B&F in 2020 and looked every bit like it. Got ahead of himself, got a kick up the pants, came back in ripping nick, did his knee, and his career is probably over now. Clark was tracking exactly where we wanted until David Mackay drew a line in the sand and 25 lines in Clark's jaw.

None of that exempts St Kilda from criticism. Dunstan's lack of development is only on the club. A number of players never kicked on and are gone. Things are changing, but it's never been harder to get to the top.

Dunstan had improved the year we cut him. He was still relatively young and had had a few injury ruined seasons before that. We got impatient and then started a war with him. We started to try to move out a bunch of GOPs and pay top dollar for more GOPs in that period. Over paid for Hickey, never really made use of him then threw him away where he went on to play excellent footy at Sydney. Acres similar to bring in a running wingman where we'd never tried him ad he now is probably better than Hill.

Just so many dumb sideways moves under Lethers and Gags. Lots of short term pieces that we gave up on when there was no instant gratification. Part of our issue is a distinct lack of discipline to stay on a singular path. The development and career progression stuff was as amateur as our recruiting. Guys were swapped into different positions, dumped to the VFL left out promoted, dumped and written off constantly.

As much as I'm frustrated by Ross Lyon right now there does seem to be a real program for improvement from within.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Cal said on Gettable clubs are coming for Steele

I reckon Steelo might be putting the feelers out.

 

[heynow85]

I reckon Steelo might be putting the feelers out.

I’d probably prefer to keep Windhager than Steele at this point.

 

[phantom13]

I’d probably prefer to keep Windhager than Steele at this point.

By a country mile. If someone offered a first for Steele I’d take it in a heartbeat

 

[SainterinSydney]

Cal said on Gettable clubs are coming for Steele

Interesting. Would be good if we got a nice deal on a trade.

 

[DougalHoward]

By a country mile. If someone offered a first for Steele I’d take it in a heartbeat

We'd be lucky to get a second for him at this point

 

[stavro#4]

An answer that can and often does change.
TDK saying yes now means **** all of Carlton finds some more cash at seasons end. Mumurings about Walsh and McKay continue to grow, if one of them goes and Carlton tells TDK he can get an extra $200k his handshake with us is meaningless (if we even have one).

I’m not going to get into this in depth with you.

What you are seeing play out in the media is often a delayed snapshot of what’s already occurred.

The club are confident in TDK. They also know if Carlton could match he would stay. They cannot match this offer without nuking their cap.

 

[stavro#4]

Cal said on Gettable clubs are coming for Steele

I did mention last year that he was a watch.


He and Ross don’t see things the same way.

Probably a bigger chance to leave this off season then either of the last 2

 

[phantom13]

I’m not going to get into this in depth with you.

What you are seeing play out in the media is often a delayed snapshot of what’s already occurred.

The club are confident in TDK. They also know if Carlton could match he would stay. They cannot match this offer without nuking their cap.

Unless they shed someone…

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Cal said on Gettable clubs are coming for Steele

We’d probably still appoint him as Captain if he plays for someone else in 2026

 

[phantom13]

I did mention last year

 

[littlecreatures]

I was pondering this morning if I’m being harsh on what the list and competitiveness looks like so I checked out the team we rolled out in the 23 final against the giants.

View attachment 2345266View attachment 2345267

Of that team only Battle, Gresham, crouch and Ross are gone and we pretty well let Gresham go. Battle depending who you listen to we didn’t exactly desperately try to keep him. Cordy would likely be playing if he wasn’t injured (as would king obviously).

It’s a bit of a chicken and egg thing in terms of the kids playing, on the one hand people will say it’s been driven by injuries and on the other people will say it’s the rebuild. Keeler is a perfect example of a guy who is getting a run due to injuries, if King is available he’s likely not playing, alternately Collard got 8 weeks in spite of very sketchy form (also butler was injured).

I think the issue the media is pointing to (which some supporters also are frustrated by) is that we do really seem to be sitting in the middle of a full rebuild/still trying to win games and play finals and those two things are generally completely opposed.

We very clearly had kids on the weekend that didn’t play ones when they could have and that opens us up to criticism.

We were all sold this mini refresh on the fly that might mean 24 was a dip but 25 and onwards was a build and for a whole host of reasons that looks pretty shot now.

Hopefully getting flogged on the weekend releases the pressure valve to keep trying to win and make finals and we can purely focus the back end of this year on development and progression and that 23 by round 24 looks vastly different to the Gws final.

This side isn’t a good look. There’s a wealth of players that have since been turned over, with Battle the exception due to draft capital because we’re in no man’s land and can’t build the list quick enough.

• Josh Battle (3rd KPD)
• Zayne Cordy (relieving FB)
• Seb Ross (centre)
• Jade Gresham (HFF)
• Brad Crouch (RV-Mid)

Then there’s a bunch of legacy issue players here from Lethers and co over evaluating the list and getting desperate, or otherwise generally players that aren’t in the window to take us forward who we need to fill asap but can’t get talent through the door quick enough.

• Jimmy Webster (Small Defender)
• Mason Wood (wing)
• Brad Hill (wing)
• Rowan Marshall (ruck)
• Hunter Clark (Mid)
• Dan Butler (small forward)

That’s basically half the match day team right there. Hence, the list being so unbalanced right now, which is only going to get harder if we can’t address talent retention urgently, let alone talent attraction.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Keeler is out of contract, but is likely to win a new one-year deal with the Saints.
St Kilda now has a dedicated Yawa (which translates to journey) room at Moorabbin where the portraits of every First Nations AFL and AFLW player to represent the club is displayed.
GIANT MOVES TO KEEP CULT HERO
Greater Western Sydney’s bid to move heaven and earth in retaining Leek Aleer is gaining traction even as he considers a four-year offer from St Kilda.

The club are only offering Keeler a one year deal?
Well that's going to help him to decide to stay....not!

 

[Diehard Saint]

But our mistakes are repeatedly brought up by those who want us to shut up in an effort to get us to shut up. So in response to that, I would just say two things:

1. Bassat, please do not shut up
2. St Kilda people, don't help our enemies by joining them in making those arguments about our (inarguable) mistakes over a period of time

One last thing: all our "doing it right" efforts don't mean squat is NWM leaves. Because we still did everything right and it didn't matter. If NWM leaves, it proves it doesn't matter what we do. Doesn't matter where we draft. Doesn't matter who we draft. The system will keep us where it wants us. Which is why I have said repeatedly that it's a disaster for us and the league if NWM leaves.

I cannot agree any more with this post.
Spot on, every point.

 

[Joffaboy]

Yes but you act as though there is an alternative

There were alternatives, first Bont ( revisionism at its best) and Petracca ( no revisionism, McCartin was not what we required).
Clark was what I wanted, looked a very good get, Coffield? Four better players went later than him. How's Ed Richards going.
We needed mids for a decade, we got half back flankers, key forwards, and other detritus.

 

[Diehard Saint]

They won’t budge now, if they shed one or two later on and can bring that offer up the whole equation changes. Added to Carlton’s sell of being a one club legend and it’s got moving parts.

I admire your faith, there’s a lot outside of our control here and he can’t sign a contract until after the season is done with us. He certainly seems more likely than not to come but it’s not even close to set in stone.

Additionally if Nas hasn’t signed every week it becomes a bigger concern.

Doubtful Carlton will make finals anyway now with McKay and Walsh out for around 6 weeks.
Surely helps as well.

 

[stavro#4]

Unless they shed someone…

They would like to retain Marshall.

From what I’ve heard it’s Marshall who may agitate for a move.


But in all honesty, let both go if you are getting good currency and invest in a Bergman at this point.

 

[littlecreatures]

Where is the $1.7 million on the table for a midfielder is the point I am getting at.

TDK would be nice, but he won't fix our midfield.

IMO, this has been done to death, but we’ve offered truck loads and proportionate cash to below mids prior to TDK amongst other roles (e.g., Weitering):

• Mcluggage
• Merret
• Callaghan
• LDU
• Jordan De Goey (not as much $ as others but had off field issues at the time)

There’s a strong argument we are well and truly scraping the bottom of the barrel by going for TDK which nevertheless is a highly rated younger ruck (arguably the best young ruck along with Jackson).

 

[stavro#4]

View attachment 2345335

But it is the truth.

Steele having interest from other clubs and has been open to that is not news.

The news would be the saints finally willing to pull the trigger.


All well and good if the saints are after Bergman Walsh Reid Aleer etc.


How the **** do we land them via trade is the question we need to answer.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Where is the $1.7 million on the table for a midfielder is the point I am getting at.

TDK would be nice, but he won't fix our midfield.

Who? There is no mid available - we certainly have tried.

Doesn't mean you still don't try to get the best talent into your club, no matter the position - when you have the means to do it.

And, tbh, TDK is exactly that. Roma is not getting any younger. We cannot just draft for the now.

 

[Nomis2933]

I reckon Steelo might be putting the feelers out.

I raised this a few months ago that he should be traded back to GWS for an Aleer straight swap to maximise our cap space to keep Nas, and a few here thought I was reaching. A 24yo Key position defender on the up versus a washed captain aged 30 suddenly seems appropriate. Steele is still a younger version of Ward and I reckon it works for both parties, despite a few protests on here.